Topic: Media Center 15/16 strange ripping behaviour (Read 7322 times)

francisr6 · « **on:** July 19, 2011, 03:21:21 am »

Hi.

We face a strange issue that is : after having ripped successfully around 20 CD, Suddenly inserting a new one it shows the datas of a previously ripped one.
Beeing unable to get out of this, we restart windows and then it goes well again for 4 new CD and again the following one shows all the datas of a previously one, everything is wrong, even the numbert of tracks are those of a previously ripped one. Now restarting windows again it is no more possible to rip any new CD as it always shows datas as if we insert an old ripped CD instead of the new one. This happens with all CDs we can try now.

I went on the forum to look if somebody met this in the past, did not find the same issue.

Thanks for your help.

francisr6 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2011, 08:10:31 am »

To follow this here is what we found to continue ripping even if not as it should be. We do a single click on the CD on windows desktop this opens MC in the ripping window with the correct disk information then we rip as usual. We have to do this for each new cd we insert as for each one it gives bad CD informations (one from an old cd ripped long time ago). It also opens a Informations windows with an error message saying the we should reinsert the CD but ejecting and reinserting is not successsfull and gives the same result. Then the only way we found to recover is to click on the cd icon on windows desktop. I can unfortunately not currently post the MC logs as this happens at a customer place and the customer server is currently off.

Thanks for your help.

Audionut · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:07:46 am »

I had the same issue for a while and it drove me nuts. I thought it would be related to the CD drive or the operating system and JRiver not working together properly. I could not find anything to fix that issue really. It only disappeared after I changed the power supply to a stronger one. Which is strange in a way, but it could be the cause.

Before changing the supply, I had to use a workaround similar to the one as you describe, I usually quit JRiver, and restarted it. It ripped the disc OK, then I had to do the same before it recognised the new CD.

Good luck and I am curious to hear if there are other solutions to this too!

Joerg

francisr6 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2011, 12:15:24 pm »

Hi Thanks a lot for your answer, on our side we use an external DVD Drive so the power supply can not be the issue and also it ripped a lot of CD before to go to this behaviour with the same hardware. What i found is that all this began after a CD that had some characters in the album name and artist name that were not compatible with windows paths. So that MC could not write the folders on the disk. The user went to edit the disk informations to rip successfully and since we have this trouble.

Listener · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2011, 01:44:45 pm »

Quote from: francisr6 on July 19, 2011, 03:21:21 am

after having ripped successfully around 20 CD, Suddenly inserting a new one it shows the datas of a previously ripped one.

There are different ways to do ripping with MC so my experience may not be completely relevant to your situation. Here is my experience:

I see behavior similar to yours when I rip CDs with MC 15. I start by clicking on the DVD drive under drives and devices. When I insert an audio CD in the (internal) DVD drive drawer and close the drawer, MC may not react to the presence of the new CD. If I click on a different view such as Audio and then click on the DVD drive view, MC will realize that a new CD is present and look it up in the online tag database.

I use the secure ripping option in MC. I find that the following sequence is pretty reliable at getting MC to recognize the next CD when I finish ripping one CD:

- Click on the "Close" button in the rip progress window. (A report of how successfully the tracks of the current CD were ripped will be shown in a popup window.)
- Remove the current CD and place the next CD in the drawer. Close the drawer.
- Wait a moment until you see activity from the CD/DVD drive. You may also see the main MC window change.
- Click on the "OK" button in the report window.
In a moment or two, you should see MC displaying the results of the tag database lookup.

(I leave the "Enable Auto Rip mode" option unchecked so that I have full control over the ripping process.)

Hope this helps you.

Bill

Bill

francisr6 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2011, 02:42:54 pm »

Hi. Thanks a lot for your help.

This is exactly how we do but the secure ripping. We use normal ripping as the secure one is really too long when the user has, as it is the case more than 3000 CD to rip and also when all the CD are in perfect condition saying perfectly new. He is somebody who is maniac with the CD and never touch them with the fingers. They have no fingerprints and no dust on them. Ripping secure always says successfull with no retries it's why we went to normal rip. Anyway the bug apears before the ripping, just when we insert the CD and when MC displays what it founds. It always sees we insert a new CD simply it is wrong displaying always the same old CD content.

Listener · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2011, 03:12:40 pm »

I took the time to share my experience. You don't seemed to have tried my ideas but dismissed them. Even if your procedure is different form mine, you might get some use from the ideas in my post.

recognizing a new CD: When you see the track list from the previous CD, it probably means that MC does not know that a new CD is present in the drive.

Secure ripping: I took good care of my CDs. About 95% don't require extra reads. 4% can be read with confidence by MC's re-reading process. For the remaining 1%, MC tells you where the failure occurred (track No. and time periods.) I found the benefits of secure ripping to be worthwhile.

Speed of ripping: DVD drives aren't all the same for ripping speed. With my current drive (Samsung SH-223), MC rips a CD securely in 5 minutes in most cases. That's about 2X my results with previous drives.

Since similar Samsung models sell for $20-25 now, buying a second drive to get more CDs ripped per hour would be cost effective.

I don't give much advice on this forum anymore. People like you arrive with a problem they don't understand and can't fix. So they ask questions usually without providing adequate detail. If you ask them for more detail, they are too lazy to answer. When they get help, they just want to argue that the advice doesn't pertain to their situation.

Bill

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2011, 03:49:59 pm »

Quote from: Listener on July 19, 2011, 03:12:40 pm

I don't give much advice on this forum anymore. People like you arrive with a problem they don't understand and can't fix. So they ask questions usually without providing adequate detail. If you ask them for more detail, they are too lazy to answer. When they get help, they just want to argue that the advice doesn't pertain to their situation.

That's too bad. I always liked your advice. It was among the very best here.

MrC · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2011, 04:03:36 pm »

How is the CD being ejected? The physical eject button, or right click Drives & Devices > CD > Eject?

I've never experienced MC retaining CD info for a disk when it has ejected the disc. I could imagine a problematic drive not issuing a CD eject event though.

Also, just a thought, be sure that the view you're looking at now is not Recently Imported, but is actually the Drives & Devices view.

francisr6 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2011, 04:40:55 pm »

Hi Listener.

I am sorry because we apreciate your help and in a way you are wrong when you say :"You don't seemed to have tried my ideas but dismissed them. Even if your procedure is different form mine, you might get some use from the ideas in my post.", what you are explaining here is exactly the same you explained earlyer in another post (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59821.0) and we found this procedure to be smart, this is why we use it exactly the same way as you do since a long time. We use the settings as they are here : http://naturelover.smugmug.com/gallery/14155242_zpNLh/1/1044373019_Q3VLb#1044373019_Q3VLb
I explained you why we do not use secure ripping in that case and anyway MC should not show this issue with normal ripping. Please understand that your help is really apreciated.

Back to the issue, i wrote that MC sees that a new CD has been inserted as it displays an information window saying that we have to reinsert the CD but it changes nothing.

As we have the eject CD after ripping to be on, the ripped CDs are always ejected automatically. This works perfectly.
Yes we are in the drives & device view, the automatic display of the Recently imported is off.

Again thanks to everybody who helps.

MrC · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2011, 04:50:12 pm »

Ok, good. How about an F5 refresh in the CD view. Does that help?

francisr6 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2011, 04:57:36 pm »

Hi.

This, i will test it tomorrow as it is now midnight here and the user server is no more online so i can no more remote it this evening.
I keep you updated.

Thanks.

Listener · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2011, 06:40:32 pm »

Quote from: francisr6 on July 19, 2011, 04:40:55 pm

you are wrong when you say :"You don't seemed to have tried my ideas but dismissed them. Even if your procedure is different form mine, you might get some use from the ideas in my post."

You seem to have assumed that my advice was no different from that in the old thread you cited.
I think that if you had tried my suggestion in my first post in this thread (to click on "Audio" and then on the CD/DVD drive line under "Drives&Devices") you might have gotten a useful result. Did you try it?

Quote from: francisr6 on July 19, 2011, 04:40:55 pm

Back to the issue, i wrote that MC sees that a new CD has been inserted as it displays an information window saying that we have to reinsert the CD but it changes nothing.

CD/DVD drives are rather sloppy. Sometimes when you place a CD and close the drawer, the CD is not seated properly and can't be read. That is what MC is telling you. It knows that the drive door was closed and that the drive says that there is a CD in the drawer. However, MC can't read that CD.

When you insert the CD again, do you see the same message saying you to re-insert the CD?

I tried MrC's suggestion to press F5 in the CD view when MC was not recognizing a CD and starting the tag lookup process. It worked for me. I also tried clicking on Audio and then clicking on the CD drive line under "Drives & devices". That worked too.

MrC, your suggestion to "Press F5" looks like an easy way to solve the OP's problem. I added that suggestion to the step-by-step process that the OP referred to.

Bill

MrC · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2011, 09:37:01 pm »

Let's hope F5 does help.

Back when I used to use EAC and/or had Nero installed, something about using either of them, and MC, together, would cause MC to fail to detect the CD at seemingly random times. F5 helped sometimes, often though I had to quit EAC and MC, and relaunch MC to get a detection. Sometimes it required a reboot. I don't know much about the Windows CD insert notification mechanisms or hooks, so other than mentioning it here on the forum, I didn't pursue.

The problem basically went away once I stopped those evil ways (Nero and EAC), but it has been long ago, and I can't recall exact correlations.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=53957.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33518.0

Listener · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2011, 02:53:32 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 19, 2011, 03:49:59 pm

That's too bad. I always liked your advice. It was among the very best here.

Thanks for the good words. I have tried to both set the record straight and provide help at the same time on other forums. I've had tendinitis in both hands/forearms for 6 months and can't type much.

MrC's question to the OP about the recently ripped view brought back a memory. I was one of the people lobbying for the option to stay in the CD/DVD drive view after MC finished ripping a CD.

Bill

MrC · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2011, 03:30:56 pm »

Quote from: Listener on July 20, 2011, 02:53:32 pm

MrC's question to the OP about the recently ripped view brought back a memory. I was one of the people lobbying for the option to stay in the CD/DVD drive view after MC finished ripping a CD.

I don't know when it was added, but the CD & DVD > CD Ripping > Rip Complete Options > "Show recently ripped playlist after ripping" option is one I disabled, and am no longer whisked away from CD/DVD view.

Listener · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:42:27 pm »

Quote from: MrC on July 20, 2011, 03:30:56 pm

I don't know when it was added, but the CD & DVD > CD Ripping > Rip Complete Options > "Show recently ripped playlist after ripping" option is one I disabled, and am no longer whisked away from CD/DVD view.

That's the one.

Bill

francisr6 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2011, 09:01:46 am »

Hi.

Sorry about the delay, i was unable to use that machine where i face this issue, the user not beeing at home.

When we go to audio then back to the drive window, it says the same and still displays the same old wrong CD

When we eject as it says it was not able to read the CD information, it does the same when re inserted.

In the options the CD & DVD > CD Ripping > Rip Complete Options > "Show recently ripped playlist after ripping" option disabled as it was part of the original setting listerer recomended us to use.

Now i have some more usefull information. The very first CD when we start MC is always perfectly recognised and ripped. All the following ones are not recognised and are wrong. Each time we quit MC and run it again, the first CD is OK, the followings are wrong.

I reinstalled MC (without uninstalling), it changed nothing.

I plugged another external DVD reader and got the same result.
I also have the same with the internal DVD reader and to finish i have to say that it behave the same with secure rip as with normal rip.

As i am working on it i keep you updated on what i find.

Thanks.

francisr6 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2011, 10:14:14 am »

Hi.

Something new: it apears that the issue is not at MC level it is at windows level (explorer) as even in windows, when we put a new CD in the reader, it is seen only if the DVD window is refreshed by explorer, if not is is still displaying the old content. MC probably refreshes something so that the first time we rip the CD is found and the following times it is not.

Now i focus on this windows issue and will post the solution here as it can happen to somebody else.

Thanks.

MrC · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2011, 10:43:49 am »

This sounds like some other software has latched onto the disc insert/eject notification hook, and is preventing events from being passed up the chain. Candidates: other CD/DVD software, or A/V software.

francisr6 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:57:02 am »

Hi.

No nothing else than MC has been installed. Anyway it finished with a reinstall of windows seven so that it is now solved hoping it will never reappear.

Thanks for help.

francisr6 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2011, 02:22:48 pm »

Hi.

Unfortunately this came back rather fast. The 14 first CDs ripped after the complete reinstall without any kind of other player (but windows media player that is installed by default by windows) were perfect then it began again to say it was not able to read the CD content and that it had to be reinserted and then as before it shows the content of a wrong one, always the same.
The only way is to close MC launch it again and rip the CD perfectly, the following one will do the same so close MC again and so on.

This story will drive me crazy...

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2011, 04:13:49 pm »

Did you try another drive?

francisr6 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2011, 04:43:47 pm »

Hi. Jim

Thanks a lot for your help, this happens with the internal drive as with the 2 external drives i tested with. When it begins to behave this way so does it with all drives as with all disks. The beauty of this issue is that it is really 100% stable, when it begins it is absolutely reliable.
When MC detects the inserted CD and displays the message saying that the CD has not been recognised, i close MC and then i see that for explorer, the CD is not there as it shows only the drive icon not the CD icon. Then if i click (one click) on the drive icon, explorer updates and displays the CD icon. Then when MC is opened again it rips perfectly the CD until the next one that will not be recognised again. In fact i do not have to click the drive icon as closing and restarting MC is enough to rip the next cd successfully.

francisr6 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 07, 2011, 09:46:15 am »

Hi.

To be more precise i would like to focus on the fact thet when windows is started and MC is not launched, explorer updates perfectly the CD that are inserted. We can eject and insert another one all are seen and they have the good informations. When MC is started with a CD in the drive, the CD informations are good and the ripping goes well. Once this CD is ejected, MC sees the next one we insert but the informations are not found. When we close MC then explorer is no more displaying the CD as long as we do not refresh it with one click on the drive icon.

Thanks for all advices.

francisr6 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 07, 2011, 03:50:54 pm »

After installing MC 16 the issue was still there so i entirelly uninstalled MC 15 as MC 16 and re installed MC 16 without loading the settings and the library. Then the issue is no more present, all works as expected. I will save all register entries so that later i will be able to compare if the issues comes back as it did earlyer. Next step tomorrow will be to load the settings and the library and see what happens. I keep you updated.

francisr6 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 09, 2011, 10:34:53 am »

Hi.

I am no more sure that this has to stay only in the MC 15 subject as it behaves the same with MC 16. We did as we planned and now we know that a complete uninstall - reinstall process of MC solves the issue when we destroy also the MC settings that are in the library backup. Uninstalling entirelly and reinstalling entirelly importing only the library without the settings solves the issue. Then we have to manually param the settings. The good thing is that is rather fast to do as it does not need the system to be re installed. We will now see how long it will stay safe.

As it is safe now we saved the registry entries from MC to compare them with the one we got when it failed hoping that we will find where something went to be corrupted. And if we are lucky why it was corrupted twice.

Thanks for everybody who helped.

francisr6 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2011, 01:05:06 pm »

Hi.

Unfortunately, it came back once again. As we are now under MC 16 we uninstalled MC 16 entirely once again and reinstalled it without importing the settings. Now we are very fast to set everything manually, we are still not able to understand what happens and why suddenly it comes back from one CD to the next.

Listener · « **Reply #28 on:** August 19, 2011, 04:58:44 pm »

Quite a few posts ago, someone suggested to you that your problem was probably related to how Windows handles the event when a CD is inserted in the drive.

Bill

francisr6 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 20, 2011, 04:03:07 am »

Hi.

Thanks for your advice and reminder, windows has been reinstalled entirely many times until the moment when i found that it was not needed as re installing MC entirely was enough to solve the issue. As long as we reinstall MC without importing the prev settings stored in the library. At a moment it seems that something comes to be corrupted in the MC settings that brings the issue. Next time it happens i will try only to import the MC settings from a previous library when it was safe, may be it will be enough to recover without uninstalling and re installing MC entirely.

I am also collecting .reg files trying to understand which key(s) is(are) modified between the safe situation and the buggy one. This is a long process as between a safe situation and the issue it can take days or weeks to happen again and in between a lot of keys have been changed in the registery. I disabled windows updates and avoided as much as possible any change made to the machine in order to minimise the registry changes.

francisr6 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:25:16 am »

Hi.

Thinking that it could be a hardware or hardware/driver issue, we replaced the mother board for another one that is also another model from another brand. Unfortunately the issue is still there after a complete reinstall of everything of course. The only thing that is not usual in our configuration is that we use 2 DVD drives, one is the internal one, the second one which is in mainly in use is below the touchscreen close from the chair of the user and it is a USB3 Buffalo Blu Ray DVD drive. It also has been replaced by another of the same model with the same behaviour. To allow the user to rip, he now leaves MC insert a new CD, then windows opens MC and the ripping works perfectly, the user leaves MC again and so on.

The strange is that we have other configurations like this one with the same DVD drives and they run as they have to, so it does not look as beeing an issue comming from the fact we have 2 dvd drives.

Francis.

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Author Topic: Media Center 15/16 strange ripping behaviour (Read 7322 times)