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[Listener]

Better handling for multiple libraries (for image handling and music playback together) - I don't use MC for managing my collection of over 200 GB of image files because I don't want images in the same library as my music collection.  Switching between separate libraries is a pain; you lose what you are  doing when you change libraries.

The way that multiple libraries fit together with the MC UI and networing features needs to be rethought and then "refactored". (a programmer buzzword.)

For example, I'd like to use MC to control music playback in one tab and to edit images in another tab.I'd like for MC to remember my Tremote connection to a library on another PC even if I have been working ion images in the meantime.

I'm aware of the possibility of running multiple instances of MC but my experience has been that context from one instance may affect how MC starts the next time I run it for another purpose.

I think that the image management features might be more useful to me if they were better separated from the music and video parts.  (I do think that the structured database approach MC offers and its low price are a nearly unique combination for image management.) 

If I were you, I'd consider splitting off image management into a separate program and marketing it to photographers.  Do it right and I'd be an evangelist.

Bill

[JimH]

I don't use MC for managing my collection of over 200 GB of image files because I don't want images in the same library as my music collection.  Switching between separate libraries is a pain; you lose what you are  doing when you change libraries.

Why not?  You would never know they were there unless you opened "Images".

Your suggestion about improving how multiple libraries are handled is a good one.

[Listener]

Why not?  You would never know they were there unless you opened "Images".

I understand your point.  My decision is based on different considerations:

I put a lot of time into ripping and tagging my collection of 2000-2500 CDs and a few purchased downloads.  Most of those CDs were classical music, broadway show albums and broadway standards albums, all of which had to be tagged manually.  Once something goes into that MC library, it does not normally leave.  I now depend on that library for all my music playback.  One copy of the library is on a dedicated MusicPC.  Another copy is on my personal PC so that I can play with the latest version of MC without affecting my "production" copy of the library.  I keep 2 backups of that library and a separate copy that archives the music files as they were just after I finished tagging the files.  I expect to be playing those permanent music files for the rest of my life and I don't want to screw anything up.

My image collection is much more dynamic.  When I take some pictures, I first want to find and remove images that are out of focus or contain nothing of interest.  Then I want to select a few images from the day's shooting and crop and/or resize them for further use.  I will upload some of those seelcted images to FlickR or SmugMug and use some for web site or eNewsletter articles.  Once the images have been processed, I'd like to tag them so that I can find examples of subject matter across years of images.

I do not want 200+ GB of images polluting my production music library.  I don't even want them on my dedicated MusicPC.  The image files on my personal PC are not even accessible from the MusicPC and I don't want to share them across my LAN.  I don't want backups of my 700 GB music library to contain another 200+ GB of image files.

You might choose to place image files in the same library with your music files.  I am very clear on my reasons for keeping image files out of my music library.

Your suggestion about improving how multiple libraries are handled is a good one.

Thanks.

In addition to my permanent music library, i have another MC library of concerts downloads.  That library is dynamic so I want to keep them separate from my permanent music library.  Switching between those libraries is a pain now.  For example, when I change libraries, MC stops playing what it was playing. That is another use for different libraries in different tabs.

Bill

[JimH]

I do not want 200+ GB of images polluting my production music library.

I can see you're a man who knows his own mind.

OK, I just tried creating a new library and it's trivial to switch.

Try creating one, and importing something.  File/Library Manager.

Then open the "Playing From" section under Playing Now.  You will see all libraries available, both local and remote.  Click on the one you want.  Click on Load.

[Listener]

Jim, thanks for starting a new thread.  Since You suggested that I start a new thread, I did so.  I just deleted that thread and moved my new post to this thread.

JimH said

OK, I just tried creating a new library and it's trivial to switch.
Try creating one, and importing something.  File/Library Manager.

Then open the "Playing From" section under Playing Now.  
You will see all libraries available, both local and remote.
Click on the one you want.  Click on Load.

I don't think that you understood what I wrote.  I indicated that I had a second library for concert downloads so it should be clear that I know how to create and populate a library.

Right now, MC uses one active library.  When you switch to a different library, any activity that was going on stops and context is lost.  Here are some consequences:

- When you load a different library, playback stops instantly.  So you can't browse images in a second library while you are playing music in your music library.

- Starting in the Last Location (with the last library) is a powerful feature that makes MC much friendlier to use.  If I use MC for playing music, I want to start in the Last Location that relates to playing music.  If I was browsing an image library the last time I used MC, the Last Location will be relevant to browsing images.

- I understand that I can run multiple instances of MC and that I can specify the starting library with a command line switch.  However, I can't have Last Location context information for each instance.


Here is how I want MC to behave:

1. I can create different libraries for different purposes and use one or more at the same time.

2. I can play music from one library while browsing music or images or video in a different library.  I'd like to be able to do image editing from one library while playing music from another library as well.

3. I can start MC and have the right context information (such as Last Location) be used.  If I want to browse and play music, I want to start with the same library and the same view scheme as when I last browsed and played music.  If I want to browse and edit images, I want to start with the same library and view scheme I last used.

4. I want this improved behavior to work when I am using a local image library and using a music library on another PC via the Tremote/Library Server feature.

I have been thinking about this limitation in MC for over 5 years.  Since JimH asked "Where we're going next?", I made my suggestions based on that thinking.

Bill

[JimH]

Right now, MC uses one active library.  When you switch to a different library, any activity that was going on stops and context is lost.  Here are some consequences:

- When you load a different library, playback stops instantly.  So you can't browse images in a second library while you are playing music in your music library.

That's expected.  You've switched libraries.  What you're asking for is to allow MC to load two libraries at once.

Here is how I want MC to behave:

1. I can create different libraries for different purposes and use one or more at the same time.

2. I can play music from one library while browsing music or images or video in a different library.  I'd like to be able to do image editing from one library while playing music from another library as well.

3. I can start MC and have the right context information (such as Last Location) be used.  If I want to browse and play music, I want to start with the same library and the same view scheme as when I last browsed and played music.  If I want to browse and edit images, I want to start with the same library and view scheme I last used.

4. I want this improved behavior to work when I am using a local image library and using a music library on another PC via the Tremote/Library Server feature.

I have been thinking about this limitation in MC for over 5 years.  Since JimH asked "Where we're going next?", I made my suggestions based on that thinking.

I understand what you want now.  I don't think it's a common need, and there is already a good workaround (images and audio in one library).

[Listener]

That's expected.  You've switched libraries.

You are describing the current behavior as though it is the natural or inevitable way for multiple libraries to work in MC.  I am pointing out limitations that might be fixed.
 
I made a serious effort to explain how I wanted to use MC.  There might be a number of ways to provide the behavior I want.

What you're asking for is to allow MC to load two libraries at once.I understand what you want now.  I don't think it's a common need, and there is already a good workaround (images and audio in one library).

You chose to make multiple libraries a feature of MC.   Why have them if you don't consider making them useful?  How do you see multiple libraries being used?  Why would you not want to make the feature more useful?

I explained why your workaround would not work for me, giving considerable detail.  You don't seem to have understood that explanation.

Bill

[JimH]

I think I do understand it.

[rjm]

tools\options\general\advanced\allow multiple instances to run at one time
each with a different library ?

[Listener]

tools\options\general\advanced\allow multiple instances to run at one time
each with a different library ?

I did mention using multiple instances in an earlier post and described the problem with the Last Location feature.

Bill

[glynor]

OK, I just tried creating a new library and it's trivial to switch.

MC still crashes OFTEN on many different machines when I switch libraries.  Actually, that term isn't quite right...  It doesn't usually crash by itself, but it becomes non-responsive, as though something is stuck in a wait condition, waiting for another task to finish, but it never finishes.

This has been a long-standing problem that I've seen with many different machines with many different libraries.  It does NOT happen every time you switch.  Sometimes it seems to work exactly as designed.  But if you create 3 or 4 different libraries (which aren't just empty test libraries, but are actually working libraries that you use) and try to regularly switch between them, especially back and forth a few times in the same "use session", you should be able to reproduce the problem with relative ease.  I have trouble with both local and network libraries (no matter which you are switching "to" or "from").  It does seem to work "worse" with a more filled and in-use library than with a brand-new blank one, but I haven't really done enough serious testing to rule anything out.

Either way, when this happens, MC can become unresponsive and your only option is to kill it manually.  In some cases, it can take 4 or 5 cycles of this cycle to get a switch to "stick": launch MC, which loads the last-used library, try to switch to another library, MC freezes, I kill it, relaunch MC, repeat.  It feels fiddly.

This is actually part of the reason I try to avoid having separate libraries whenever possible, and is part of the reason (but not the only reason) I include files on my "archive hard drives" in my main Media Library.  It is also useful, of course, to use MC to actually manage where the files are, and to have a "database" you can use to find out which disk to grab from the shelf.  However, switching libraries all the time to use an external disk can be a pain.

[Listener]

MC still crashes OFTEN on many different machines when I switch libraries.  Actually, that term isn't quite right...  It doesn't usually crash by itself, but it becomes non-responsive, as though something is stuck in a wait condition, waiting for another task to finish, but it never finishes.

I noticed that behavior back in the MC 12 days.  It appears to me that MC 15 and 16 are more resistant to crashing when you switch libraries.  As you say, this is a reproducible problem; just keep switching until MC freezes or crashes.

Bill

[Matt]

MC still crashes OFTEN on many different machines when I switch libraries.  Actually, that term isn't quite right...  It doesn't usually crash by itself, but it becomes non-responsive, as though something is stuck in a wait condition, waiting for another task to finish, but it never finishes.

I switch libraries often in the debugger and do not see this.  Please send a log showing the hang to matt at jriver dot com, and we'll go from there.

Thanks.

[glynor]

I switch libraries often in the debugger and do not see this.  Please send a log showing the hang to matt at jriver dot com, and we'll go from there.

Thanks.

Will do.  I can usually reproduce it easily on my laptop.  I should have a chance in a day or two.

[rjm]

MC still crashes OFTEN on many different machines when I switch libraries.  Actually, that term isn't quite right...  It doesn't usually crash by itself, but it becomes non-responsive, as though something is stuck in a wait condition, waiting for another task to finish, but it never finishes.

I have reported in the past something funky going on the first time Drives and Devices folder is browsed. I observe what appears to be a lockup with MC pegging drive activity for about 60 seconds then MC comes back and everything works normally thereafter including browsing to different folders. If you had a Drives and Devices view selected on startup then this might explain the lockup you see when switching libraries. Have you waited a couple minutes to ensure MC does not come back to life?