INTERACT FORUM

Are these details described anywhere ?

Thanks !

Has any Beta Team member used the support for FLAC files with embedded CUE files?

I don't.

If you post an example CUE file, MrC offered to test it for you in the other thread.  I know you copypasta'd it but he asked for the actual binary file.

I'll test it too...

This thread is about the new feature - support of embedded CUE files in FLAC files.

The other threads are about CUE files being imported.

I don't have any embedded cue/flac files to test with, sorry.

**I just noticed that support was added in a build that is now publicly available, so I suggest that you can probably give it a test yourself, if you have any such files.

I've installed the latest J River MC Trial (18.0.129) specifically to test the support of embedded cue sheets, but unfortunately I cannot get it to work at all. I have FLAC CD images and the cue has been embedded either with foobar2000 or CUETools. But neither image shows single tracks in MC, I only see the full image.

What am I doing wrong? Do I need to enable embedded cue support somewhere?

Thanks for your reply. I have done everything as you describe (I am no novice in handling cue files, I'm just new to MC). So specifically to your points

a) There is only one file in the folder (the flac image that has the embedded cue, no external cue),
b) the flac image works fine with foobar2000 and other players/programs that support embedded cues.

Yes, the files are imported. When I click play the file plays, but there is only one track that is the length of the full image.

Try removing the file(s) from the library and then running Auto-Import again.

Keep in mind, you probably have to remove it twice:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72593.msg491631#msg491631

I've found the issue:

- When you create a FLAC image with embedded cue sheet in foobar2000, the converter creates 'FILE "CDImage.wav" WAVE' as a placeholder for the filename in the embedded cue

- Foobar2000 ignores the filelocation in the embedded cue completely. Hence, you can rename the FLAC image as you like, and it still plays without problem in foobar2000.

-J River MC uses the file location of the embedded cue to find the image in which it is embedded in. I think handling embedded cues that way is incorrect and should probably be treated as a bug. As a consequence, you cannot rename your image files and MC cannot play FLAC's with embedded cues unless the file is exactly named as it is in the cue.

Well, I misunderstood and thought you meant the information in the external cue before the embedding process.

Obviously my mistake. But the issue at hand her is that MC uses the file command when it should probably ignore it.

Can I ask a more basic question...?

What the heck is the point of all of this?  Why wouldn't you just rip to individual tracks, and embed the metadata in the normal tags?  I just wonder what problem this solution is designed to solve...

Because ripping to an image and a cue sheet is more accurate for backup purposes. Also, for large collections (e.g. for classical music box sets) it is cleaner and safer to have only one file (image with embedded cue) rather than thousand of individual tracks.

Not to be a jerk, but...  That's not a problem being solved.  That's assertions without an explanation of factual basis.  For file management reasons, I can see it I suppose, though using a database makes this a moot point.

For for the other stuff you listed... How is it more accurate?  In what way is it safer?

I should add:  I'm not suggesting, in any way, that MC shouldn't support the feature properly (since support has been added).  I just wonder what the heck it is for.  It seems LESS "safe" to me.  It sounds like the CUE format was co-opted inappropriately and hacked into a file tag inside a FLAC.  Otherwise why does it refer to a non-existent filename?

It feels, to me at a glance, very much like a hacky-workaround for crappy players that don't know how to play back individual tracks properly.  Or one of those "it feels more truthy" kinds of things.

Hence good and proper support for JR MC as in foobar2000 would be nice.

Totally agree here.

I was just curious.

A lot of MC18 has to be legacy support - just for example:

* SHN files (I have 6,000 of them from etree.org for things like 1977-05-08)
* AVI files (with XViD content)
* Single file CD images (most of them are .APE)(from the days when everyone thought that was best)

For example - in order to convert those SHN files to FLAC properly, I would need to get out foobar, because the only way to tag them is with the extension to the foobar component Mass Tagger called "Live Show Tagger" which can read the etree text file format.

To convert all legacy files is, I think, a little more time intensive than it is worth in the long run.

For example - in order to convert those SHN files to FLAC properly, I would need to get out foobar, because the only way to tag them is with the extension to the foobar component Mass Tagger called "Live Show Tagger" which can read the etree text file format.

This can be done in one shot via command line shntool.  Ask if you want help.

Can you send me a sample?  I'll delete when I'm done.  Dropbox, or I'll PM you an email.

hmm... just posted my cue problem in the other thread... and did not see this one...

Should i just convert all of my cue files to individual tracks once and for all...   
These are old files for me... and not critical.... just annoying.

I don't think the problem you posted in the other thread is related to anything in this thread.

Next build:
Fixed: A 'FILE' line in a FLAC + embedded CUE could cause problems.

I have not followed everything in this thread, so if there are other bugs in this area it would help if you could summarize them.

Thanks.

There is a bug now reported by roughly a dozen people, which I posted in the "...18.0.129 - Available Here" thread several days ago.  (That playback based on a CUE file causes the Time Remaining to be larger than what is correct, causing the seekbar not to move until later, etc. - see the post for exact description.)

I did exchange some emails with MrC about it, and sent him some samples.

Meanwhile, if you want to try the foobar method, here is the one and only thread on it:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11995

This is what it looks like in action (the info in the dialog box is parsed from the usual etree text file):

I received a few .txt file samples, but not enough content in the standard directory forms to produce a complete solution.

The text files are generally a mess; nonetheless, I was able to produce a script to pull out some relevant information.

Since the etree stuff generally follows some directory naming, file naming, and text info conventions, it is possible to use that information to build some useful data.  Perhaps this can be output into a sidecar file or mpl file which MC can read to populate tags.

I did find a script and set of tools that purports to accomplish the file conversion and tag writing.  But I don't have any etree data sufficient enough to be clear how well it works.  The script ends up being very much like what I wrote last night.  I tried the script on the the single .shn file I was sent, but it was not in any directory structure, and there was a mismatch of the .shn and .txt file namings.  I spent a little time trying to figure out how to download more content from etree - what a pain!  Simply put, these folks are nuts, and clearly have not heard of torrents (they are still stuck in mailing list announcements of ftp sites that come and go - yuck).

So, if you want some help on this, I'm not going to work hard to find the input data.  If you have some reasonable number of samples in the correct formats (file and directory names, content, metadata files), I'm happy to see what I can come up with.

I came up with very similar output to the foobar stuff above (didn't bother with the Venue content -that could go in Comments or elsewhere):

**** galactic2011-06-12.txt
Date: 2011/06/12
Artist: Galactic
Track: 01    Title: Intro
Track: 02    Title: Who Took The Happiness
Track: 03    Title: I Don't Know But It Sure Is Funky (Corey)
Track: 04    Title: Never Called You Crazy (Corey)
Track: 05    Title: Keep Steppin
Track: 06    Title: Boe Money
Track: 07    Title: You Don't Know (corey)
Track: 08    Title: Night People (corey)
Track: 09    Title: Cineramascope
Track: 10    Title: Balkan Wedding
Track: 11    Title: Total destruction to your mind (corey)
Track: 12    Title: Corey Plead for Gulf Coast
Track: 13    Title: Heart of Steel (corey)
Track: 14    Title: Baker's dozen >
Track: 15    Title: Stanley Drums >
Track: 16    Title: Baker's Dozen
Track: 17    Title: How Many More Times (Corey)

**** gd1969-01-17.txt
Date: 1969/01/17
Artist: 1/17/69
Disc: 1
Track: 1    Title: Turn //On Your Lovelight
Track: 2    Title: Dark Star>
Track: 3    Title: St. Stephen>
Track: 4    Title: The Eleven>
Track: 5    Title: Death Don't Have No Mercy
Disc: 2
Track: 2    Title: Drums>
Track: 3    Title: The Other One>
Track: 4    Title: Cryptical>
Track: 5    Title: Cosmic Charlie

**** galactic2011-06-12.txt
Date: 2011/06/12
Artist: Galactic
Track: 01    Title: Intro
Track: 02    Title: Who Took The Happiness
Track: 03    Title: I Don't Know But It Sure Is Funky (Corey)
Track: 04    Title: Never Called You Crazy (Corey)
Track: 05    Title: Keep Steppin
Track: 06    Title: Boe Money
Track: 07    Title: You Don't Know (corey)
Track: 08    Title: Night People (corey)
Track: 09    Title: Cineramascope
Track: 10    Title: Balkan Wedding
Track: 11    Title: Total destruction to your mind (corey)
Track: 12    Title: Corey Plead for Gulf Coast
Track: 13    Title: Heart of Steel (corey)
Track: 14    Title: Baker's dozen >
Track: 15    Title: Stanley Drums >
Track: 16    Title: Baker's Dozen
Track: 17    Title: How Many More Times (Corey)

**** gd1969-01-17.txt
Date: 1969/01/17
Artist: 1/17/69
Disc: 1
Track: 1    Title: Turn //On Your Lovelight
Track: 2    Title: Dark Star>
Track: 3    Title: St. Stephen>
Track: 4    Title: The Eleven>
Track: 5    Title: Death Don't Have No Mercy
Disc: 2
Track: 2    Title: Drums>
Track: 3    Title: The Other One>
Track: 4    Title: Cryptical>
Track: 5    Title: Cosmic Charlie

If I could get that... I'd be thrilled.

The way I always tag them is to:

Set the [Date] to match the date recorded.
Set the [Artist] and [Genre] appropriately by my standards.
Set the [Album] to something like: "1972-08-27 - Old Renaissance Faire Grounds, Veneta OR (Braverman Dank Source)"
Sometimes, if I'm feeling feisty, I set [Location] to the town/city/etc (eg "Veneta, OR") and the [Events] to the name of the show ("Benefit for Springfield Creamery").
I set a [Keyword] "live".
And then I copypasta the entire contents of the txt file into the [Notes] field.

The main problem is the Track Names, which I've always done via ol' elbow grease.  I get on kicks now and then and will do 30-50 sets in a night.

PS.  This makes me look like a Dead-head.  I'm not, though I enjoy a good Dead show here and there, but my tastes are far more varied.  If you could accuse me of being a "-head" about anything, I'd have to pick electronic music.  But there is a ton of fantastic live content on etree.org.

PPS.  I agree about splitting this stuff into its own thread.  Useful stuff, though, this.

Okay, I will start a new thread:

" Converting SHN files to FLAC files " at

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78216

Hopefully Jim or some other admin can paste the relevant posts there, and then this one can continue as Embedded CUE sheet discussion.

The off-topic posts start with:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77950.msg531408#msg531408

but there are some posts after that message that are on topic of Embedded CUE sheets.