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Author Topic: More flexibility for Recording subscriptions is an absolute must for me...  (Read 3939 times)

imeric

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I strongly feel this should be given some priority...It is an absolute must (for me anyway and I recall having seen lots of similar posts on this...) to give more flexibility in subscriptions especially for sports events.

For example I'm trying to subscribe all games for the Toronto Blue Jays..These will be on different channels at different times and with a different description... I should be able to give an expression somehow to get this working...
example: MLB Baseball OR Toronto OR Blue Jays etc...

Right now there is absolutely no way of doing this which leaves me with Sage for recordings...Hockey season is coming up soon and would love to use JRiver for it :)....
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imeric

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I played around a little more with this to see if it would work and it does not...  Either I get all hockey games that will show up in the subscription or none at all if I get creative and add the name of my desired team in the name but unfortunately it only shows up in the description.. Am I the only one with this issue??
AGAIN without this I can't use MC21 for TV recordings.

Either this needs to be reworked or I'd love to get some feedback from someone who managed to get this to work...

thx.
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RoderickGI

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I don't think you are going to get it to work the way you want. Either you are going to get too many recordings, or you are going to miss recordings.

The only way I can think of to get it to work with the current functionality is to do some external pre-processing on the EPG data, so the your games will always have a specific Series name and episode (game) name. That would be a lot of work.

Of course, the quality and consistency of the EPG data, as has been said many times, has a large influence on how well the recording rules will work.

I missed a whole lot of episodes of one series I watch every now and then, once recordings have built up. The broadcaster changed channel it was transmitted on, mid-season, and I didn't notice. I had the series recording on one channel, as that was how it was advertised.
Lesson: If possible select "All Channels". If that would result in far too many unwanted recordings because of matches to the one and only keyword field available, the recording rule name, then select just the channels from the same broadcaster.

I tried to limit recordings of repeats on Doctor Who. But while the first showing typically had a show description in the EPG data, repeats most often just had "Doctor Who" (broadcaster and EPG data problem/quality). So I specified just using Series and Name for identifying repeats. Then the EPG data only included "Doctor Who" in both fields, which was seen as a repeat from many earlier programs that had the same problem. So I missed episodes. So now I record all reruns, then sort them out later. I can't write "nested" rules of the form THIS or THIS, not THAT, but IF THIS is true then RECORD, which would be required for all combinations of EPG omissions.
Lesson: I can't win with Doctor Who. I have to just record every program with the name "Doctor Who" anywhere in it, then sort later.

Typically, I have to use the rule that "Less is more". That is, using a smaller keyword or phrase in a recording rule will result in successfully capturing the program I am trying to record more often. In one case for a while there I had to reduce a rule to "Kevin" and search All Fields (i.e. Description), as the program name changed so often in the EPG. Needless to say, I got a lot of extra, sometimes strange programs recorded, where an actor named Kevin was included in the description. A similar but lessor problem occurs with the series "Scorpion", where I get documentaries, CSI/Criminal Minds episodes, and other programs that simply mention "Scorpion". Scorpion King movie. Got it. Documentary on dangerous animals. Got it. All I need is to be able to say, "when a TV Show series name = Scorpion", record it. But MC searches Series and Name as a minimum. I can't use "exact Match", as sometimes the EPG data doesn't include the episode name, and so the EPG <title> field is put into the [name] field instead of the [series] field. Plus sometimes the EPG <title> field has additional information in it, like NEW SEASON, or something.
Lesson: MC Recording Rules functionality needs a massive overhaul.

Of course, if the EPG data was always correct and complete, then this would be less of an issue. But EPG data world wide is a significant challenge. Broadcasters don't want us to know exactly what is going to be shown, as then we would pick and choose. They want to give us the minimum information and then just watch what comes on anyway. Unless of course we go to their TV Guide web site, which gives them information and advertising revenue, and they know we can't automate recordings if we do that, so we are more likely to look up the guide and watch the best thing on, and therefore less likely to ad skip.

Also, EPG data can't be corrected simply by looking up theTVDB, although this helps, because often the programs you want to watch are new programs, and theTVDB either doesn't have the data, or it is incomplete or wrong. Of course any looking up of additional data from any source has to be done outside MC so that it is available in the MC Guide for the recording rules to find. Looking up program data after it is recorded is actually of limited value, and meets a different need to trying to capture the desired programs.

</rant>
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

JimH

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We'll try to improve recording of sports events.  It may take a few months.
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imeric

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Thanks Jim for providing feedback.  Always appreciated to know we're being listened to.
I REALLY want to only use JRiver and nothing else sooner rather than later!

RoderickGI thank you for this detailed level of feedback, very helpful...SO I'm not alone :)

I don't want to oversimplify this but it could be as "simple" as adding another "Description" box underneath the "Name" box where you could enter specific keywords to look for in the description?
(A logical AND between the Name and description).  This is where I would put the Team name and therefore avoid conflicts.

I believe this would work for me.   I don't believe the description is being looked at at all currently.  If it were the case, then just adding a keyword in the name box with a logical expression could work too.

The EPG logic for these events seem stable where you only have "NHL Hockey" in the name then team names in the description.

I'm volunteering for tests if you ever need one :)

thx
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RoderickGI

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Yaobing has been doing some great work on the TV functionality, so I don't really like being critical. But it is an area that needs improvement. I have threatened to write up what I want, but haven't done it yet, except in response to a few posts others have made. Perhaps I should make time and get my thoughts together...

In many cases, it is the poor EPG data that causes the initial problem, which could be solved with better, more flexible recording rules. I don't think a simple, additional "Description" box would be enough to provide the flexibility that all users will want. Maybe if that box supported Regular Expressions, or MC Expressions, it would do. But many users wouldn't want to build complex rules for every program, or may not know how to use them. I think that feature should be there for power users, but the recording rules need to also be simple enough for non-technical people to use. They want point and click simplicity for the most part.

I think what is required is the same as what is already available for building Theatre View menu items and views, as per the attached image. Well, maybe with the addition of "AND" and "OR" connectors between the rules, and grouping of rules as would be done using parentheses. The current view functionality uses all AND connectors between the rules. With that sort of multi-level, as many as you need rules, you could build a rule set that only records the programs you want. Well, I think. I should test that theory some time.

The program Description field in the EPG data is looked at if the "Search all fields for name" checkbox is ticked. That is what I was using with my "Kevin" example above. But MC still only searches for the content of the Name field, and I'm pretty sure that if you also have the "Require an exact name match" checkbox ticked that you won't get an exact match on contents of the description.

Improving the EPG data before running the Recording Rules across it should still be a consideration as well. But that is pretty region specific in most cases. Still, MC could do better there.

Also thanks Jim for a little hope in this area.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

greynolds

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While it's true that EPG data is never perfect, it's good enough (at least in the USA) that it usually isn't the limiting factor here.  For example, WMC uses the same guide data JRiver uses and it's pretty easy to setup a search that will recording all of the Boston Bruins hockey games for the current season or to record just about any show without old repeats or 2nd showings within a day or so of the original broadcast getting recorded.

It's great to hear that JRiver is going to spend some time working on this over the next few months as, other than perhaps support for Copy Once content, it's the area where JRiver's TV functionality needs the most improvement IMHO.  I just hope that the end result is easy to use, preferably something that can be used in Theater View.
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JimH

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While it's true that EPG data is never perfect, it's good enough (at least in the USA) that it usually isn't the limiting factor here.  For example, WMC uses the same guide data JRiver uses and it's pretty easy to setup a search that will recording all of the Boston Bruins hockey games for the current season or to record just about any show without old repeats or 2nd showings within a day or so of the original broadcast getting recorded.

It's great to hear that JRiver is going to spend some time working on this over the next few months as, other than perhaps support for Copy Once content, it's the area where JRiver's TV functionality needs the most improvement IMHO.  I just hope that the end result is easy to use, preferably something that can be used in Theater View.
Both the EPG and Playready support are a very high priority.  You can expect something good.
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imeric

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Sage also works great for sports events where you can specify a favorite Team in favorites (subscriptions)...I don't recall having missed one recording with it in years...Not sure how their logic works...

That being said I wouldn't mind just a bit more flexibility in what we can enter in JRiver nothing more.  I really like RoderickGI's suggestion (or mine :)) Which ever is simplest to implement.

May I suggest that a small addition or change is done allowing a user to subscribe based on content in the Name + Description.
My whole point is I wouldn't revamp the whole thing I would just make minor changes, give it to us for tests and see how it goes??

Again, I may be oversimplifying it but it's been seen before that big changes were done which IMHO might not have been necessary...Just a thought...Keep it simple, don't rework the whole thing, one small step at a time and give us something ASAP for tests.

Hopefully this will not be taken the wrong way..Just trying to help :)

AND I really think EPG data is not that bad (for the US and Canada anyway)...And the only thing we can do is work around it...

And thanks to all for the feedback!!!
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