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[imeric]

When adding the Album Artist Tag field of jriver 2 get created:

%albumartist% and %album artist%.

I believe the correct standard should be the albumartist without the space.  This would also avoid the tag to show up twice in other softwares.

thx guys.

[Matt]

What file type are you testing (mp3, mp4, etc.)?

[imeric]

m4a (ALAC) and dsf (SACD)

[imeric]

This is still an issue with 21.0.17.  This time testing with mp3 files.  Both %albumartist% and %album artist% get created.

It should only be %albumartist%.

thx

[Matt]

When I tag the album artist for an MP3 file, these tags get set:
TPE2 (Album Artist)
TXXX (Album Artist)

And that seems pretty good to me.  Any other information about what you're seeing?

[imeric]

Hi Matt, It creates the ID3v2.3 TPE2:%Albumartist% THIS IS OK

However it also creates another one (As I assume you refer to TXXX: %Album Artist% This is the one that should not exist and MC21 should only create the TPE2 standard one for MP3s.

m4a ALAC is OK now no more duplicates.  Problem seems only present for MP3 as per above.


Thx!

[imeric]

Hi Matt,

Is there a particular reason why you have to create TXXX on top of the standard TPE2 for MP3?

I don't see the point of having 2 separate tags unless it's needed for something else...

thank you

[Paul Coddington]

When adding the Album Artist Tag field of jriver 2 get created:

%albumartist% and %album artist%.

I believe the correct standard should be the albumartist without the space.  This would also avoid the tag to show up twice in other softwares.

thx guys.

On a semi-related note, MC does not display the album artist field (WMA) - it displays all albums in my collection as being by "various artists". It seems to be confusing Contributing Artist (of which there are always several per album) with Album Artist. Likewise, in MP3, multiple artists are incorrectly concatenated into one long string separated by "/".

[Arindelle]

Hi

Matt, I have always had 2 Album Artist fields too in FLAC files; here's a tag dump if interested

Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC)
  44,1 kHz Sample Rate
  16 Bits Per Sample
  2 Channels

  Min Block Size = 4608
  Max Block Size = 4608
  Min Frame Size = 14
  Max Frame Size = 15573
  Padding Block = 1329 bytes

# of Pictures = 1
  Type 3 (105605 bytes)

Vorbis Comment Block (1193 bytes):
  Vendor String = S
  AccurateRipResult = AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 2)   [B921BABE]
  AccurateRipDiscID = 010-000de68b-006f9f77-7308a20a-8
  Source = CD (Lossless)
  Encoded By = dBpoweramp Release 14.2
  Encoder = FLAC 1.2.1
  Encoder Settings = -compression-level-8 -verify
  INTENSITY = 5
  TRACKNUMBER = 8
  TOOL NAME = Media Center
  TOOL VERSION = 21.0.17
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN = -7.00 dB
  PEAK LEVEL (SAMPLE) = +0,0 dB; +0,0 Left; +0,0 Right
  DISCNUMBER = 1
  VOLUME LEVEL (R128) = -11,9950599670410156
  COUNTRY = U.S.A.
  STYLE = Neo-Traditionalist Country
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK = 1.000000
  DYNAMIC RANGE (DR) = 10
  GENRE = Trad. Country
  LAST PLAYED = 1374598998
  ARTIST = Kelly Willis
  ALBUMARTIST = Kelly Willis
  ALBUM ARTIST = Kelly Willis
  ORGANIZATION = Rykodisc
  PEAK LEVEL (R128) = +0,8 dBTP; +0,8 Left; +0,7 Right
  BPM = 85
  DYNAMIC RANGE (R128) = 2,4476799964904785
  DESCRIPTION = My Rip

  GROUPING = Country
  UPC = 014431062223
  KEYWORDS = SR Rip
  KEYWORDS = Swap
  COMPOSER = Marcia Ball
  ALBUM = Easy
  VOLUME LEVEL (REPLAYGAIN) = -6,9950599670410156
  ALBUM ARTIST SORT = Willis, Kelly
  ARTIST SORT = Willis, Kelly
  DATE = 2002
  TITLE = Find Another Fool

I've always assumed this is because the rip was done externally and was remapped on import by JRiver .. as it takes nothing in space I've never been concerned about this personally but seem as how people have brought this up for other formats, just putting it out there.

On a semi-related note, MC does not display the album artist field (WMA) - it displays all albums in my collection as being by "various artists". It seems to be confusing Contributing Artist (of which there are always several per album) with Album Artist. Likewise, in MP3, multiple artists are incorrectly concatenated into one long string separated by "/".

I don't think this is incorrect; its just using a different separator -- the semi-colon. You can easily retag this using library tools replacing the "/" with a ";". A different formats, rippers/players etc; use different separators and tagging limitations, have to choose one out of the bunch,  right? If memory serves, might be wrong tho, that Rovi and AllMusic use "/", itunes uses "\" and many others like picard, dbpoweramp, discogs use the ";" which is what I like best at least for Windows,  because of the parsing possibilities, exporting into CSV txt files, HTML pages et al.

Sure you can have multiple artists using the separator, but if they are not the same for each track, then I also think it is normal with the existing "architecture" in JRiver that it works this way. (Album Artist+Album Name= Unique "grouping" criteria). Now maybe it would be cool if there were unique album IDs and a totally relational db, but it works pretty well considering that it has to manage  all sorts of stuff manipulated externally. If you have say three artist for each track it will not show Various or Multiple Artists unless the Album Artist field is not filled out correctly (can't always rely on Album Artist (Auto) to do it for you IME). If you have an album artist where on certain tracks within an album, another artist is "featured". I solve this by putting them into Soloist (Vorbis Comment); some people I know use Performer for this (IPLS/TMLC -- neither exist for MP4/WMA but the latter works for Mp3s)

I blame this "convention" on itunes early domination, he he. Metadata is way to limited for my geekiness! Too bad the universe doesn't run on Vorbis Comment   or even using all available fields in ID3v2+ as standard would be a nice improvement.

[imeric]

Extended tag Wow!!  I've been using JRiver for years and didn't even know this feature existed...Is this publicized on the Wiki? Definitely very useful and will use it instead of or as a complement of MP3Tag and dbpoweramp!!!

Well to MC's defense I never actually fully searched for it on the web until now...Looking at this thread I was wondering where the Tag info posted came from.....

OR maybe it could be made a little more intuitive or more obvious where to find it?

I was trying to recreate this, but I'm having trouble figuring out what kind of file you are talking about.  MP3s aren't video, so you must mean something else, like MP4 maybe?  My version of itunes (the latest) seems to write the "description" tag as "desc", and that gets imported directly in MC.  I tested this with an MP4 video file.

I would suggest that you look at the tags in the file using MC.  It's kind of unusual how you see the actual file tags:

1.  Select your file and open the tagging pane.
2.  At the top of the tagging pane, you'll see a little thumbnail and right beside it, it will say MP4 (or whatever the file type is), and the size and duration.  Click on the text that says "MP4" (or whatever the file type is).  You wouldn't think this would be clickable, but it is.
3.  A new small window will open at the bottom of the left navigation area, showing you the raw tags inside the file.

Once you've validated that Subtitle is indeed in the file(s) you are working with, you can create that as a Library field in MC.

Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields.
Then add your field with the exact name of the field that's in the file.  It's probably best to add it as a string type, with the defaults.
After you've added the field to MC, it should pick up this field in new files you add.  You can force it to re-read the tags of files that are already in the library by selecting a file (or more than one) and then:  <right click> Library Tools > Update library (from tags) .

Brian.

I Wonder how many other "hidden gems" there are in JRiver that I'm not aware of...

[Arindelle]

OR maybe it could be made a little more intuitive or more obvious where to find it?

NAH!!! keeps the couch potatoes out  !! Gotta pay your dues if you want to play the JRiver Blues

I Wonder how many other "hidden gems" there are in JRiver that I'm not aware of...

oh there are a bunch ! Like you could buy a Linn Preamp+active crossovers cost for about 3000$ or just buy JRiver using convolution/parametric EQ for 50$;  add a the cost of a calibrated mike  say less than 100 bucks and you have room calibration ... learning curve ... euh steep (vertiginous even )

but on a more simple note try the "experimental" tag window (hold SHIFT and click the tag icon) and now you have a totally customizable fully featured extended tagger. a couple of bugs left, so it just recently went public on the QT. Learning curve -- pretty easy (hit the little icon to customize).

The Wiki is slowly but surely being updated ... I'd suggest at least skimming the topics there and ask for clarification on more dated stuff here on the forum

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions

[imeric]

Thx Arindelle!! Good info I'll try it! 
Oh and I really do think I'm paying more than my dues
Reporting bugs, helping others on the forum, asking for features which I think will be very usefully not only for me but others especially for TV stuff + Plus of course paying my yearly fee by upgrading to the latest and greatest

[imeric]

This is still an issue for MP3s in ID3v2.3.  Matt can we please have just the TPE2 Tag written for Album Artist as per MP3 standard and drop the TXXX?

Not an issue with ALAC M4a but I think Arindelle is saying it might be an issue with FLAC...

Using 21.0.54
Thx

[ferday]

http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Tag_Mapping

By filling out both JRiver is achieving compatibility

Stop asking about this one please, it will break something for someone

[imeric]

Compatibility with what?

From your wiki Are you referring to this?
   TSO2 [9] / TXXX:ALBUMARTISTSORT

[glynor]

Is this publicized on the Wiki? Definitely very useful and will use it instead of or as a complement of MP3Tag and dbpoweramp!!!

It actually is... But it isn't very obvious or in a good spot. And it is just a link to a thread on Interact, which then contains links to other threads on Interact that explain it well. So... Understandable that even someone reading that article could have missed it.

From the Library Fields article's Tag Import Options section:

A tag dump will show the physical file tags for a single selected file.

I should have fixed it when I re-did the Library Fields article, but I missed that one. I'll do it.

[imeric]

From the Library Fields article's Tag Import Options section:
I should have fixed it when I re-did the Library Fields article, but I missed that one. I'll do it.

glynor not sure I understand what you will fix exactly... The wiki article or the ALbum Artist tag?

Thx

[Awesome Donkey]

glynor not sure I understand what you will fix exactly... The wiki article or the ALbum Artist tag?

The wiki article.

[imeric]

I would greatly appreciate if someone could tell me why Album Artist gets written in the TXXX and not just in TPE2.

I also tried to enter a custom library field to show these non standard fields in MC without success....Any help on this would be appreciated as well.

Thank you.

[ferday]

vorbis comment uses albumartist, apev2 uses album artist (for example).  tpe2 and txxx are id3v2 nomenclature and have little to do with tagging standards as a whole (vorbis doesn't use such nomenclature for example). 

MC is usually really good at trying to meet a large range of use cases and in this case, a bit of improved aesthetics from your point of view can break a function for another user.  it simply doesn't hurt anything to have both

[glynor]

glynor not sure I understand what you will fix exactly... The wiki article or the ALbum Artist tag?

I can't "fix" the tagging system. I don't work for JRiver and am not an expert in C++ even if I did. 

[imeric]

vorbis comment uses albumartist, apev2 uses album artist (for example).  tpe2 and txxx are id3v2 nomenclature and have little to do with tagging standards as a whole (vorbis doesn't use such nomenclature for example).  

MC is usually really good at trying to meet a large range of use cases and in this case, a bit of improved aesthetics from your point of view can break a function for another user.  it simply doesn't hurt anything to have both

And I don't disagree MC is awesome with tagging...  All I'm saying is SPECIFICALLY for id3v2 nomenclature only tpe2 should be used for albumartist.  As per the documentation you sent me, txxx would be for something else: TXXX:ALBUMARTISTSORT.  So IMHO MC is not doing the right thing for MP3s.
Not that big a big deal but this means I will keep using either dbpoweramp,foobar or mp3tag to clean these up when I make changes on mp3 files...I like to keep my tags tidy and I see this duplicate in other softwares I use from time to time.  AND I'm also fairly sure that when I originally posted this it was also problematic for iTunesMP4 tags (ALAC Files in my case)  but this got resolved when I asked way back when...Can't say for FLAC I don't use FLAC anymore

Again I'd love to hear anyone needing txxx in MC id3v2 for MP3 the album artist tag.

Thx.

Oh and I tried to create a custom field in MC to see the TXX tag without success.  I can see it in the tag dump only. How would I build it to show the txxx tag? (Maybe I could delete it from there untikl it gets..."resolved")

thx

[ferday]

look i genuinely want to help you but i also want this thread to just go away

you really don't understand the tagging standards, a bit of light reading on the vorbis org and id3 org sites will help you a lot.  TXXX: is a user defined field (like a custom field) it isn't a set value per se. (i.e. TXXX:country) so you'll notice there are a bunch of TXXX: codes in the tag dump.  how external programs choose to use the TXXX is beyond scope here.

MC as it sits is currently meeting a large range of tagging standards, INCLUDING the id3v2 by using TXXX properly.  the flip side is there is a duplicate tag, as one is "Album Artist" and one is "AlbumArtist" which is required to meet all the standards!

i'm out on this one.  as always it's too bad it isn't to your taste but that's the game when trying to please a large crowd right

[imeric]

You're telling me I don't understand, couldn't agree more I don't fully understand how it all works... If you do understand how it all works just help me out and send me good references on why TXXX gets written that's all I'm asking. The one you sent me basically confirms I was right (see snapshot)...Or show me where I can find that TXXX (a custom field therefore not standard) is required for some users. OR you can always just ignore my post.

But common sense tells me MC is doing something non standard writing TXXX with id3v2 for MP3s for an unknown reason...All I could see from other posts shared by Glynor was it has to do with older versions of MC?

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51094.msg348787#msg348787

One thing that would also help me is to know how to create a custom library field..Couldn't figure out how on the wiki...http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Fields#Tag_Import_Options

In the meantime I'll do some more reading..And keep using mp3tag. I really only want to use MC for tagging.

[Arindelle]

Yep I don't get what the O.P. is so concerned about maybe? Who cares if a tag is written in 2 ways to the file. What counts is that the players one uses can read and interpret the tags. Right?

Using "extended" tagging like vorbis comment and flac is as I think Imeric understands is somewhat file container limited. MP3tag is using strict and limited ID3 fields - certainly not the gold standard. Every player that's half way decent in handling metadata like JRIiver, Foobar, Media Monkey et al, ar going to map the tags slightly differently as this allows them to import and use many different standards. MP3Tag is really dealing with only one. Dbpoweramp is a ripper that tags well. But what is tagged as performer shows up as soloist in JRiver ... it doesn't matter. The only thing I find slightly  different is the Album Artist field handling (probably something to do with their Album Artist (Auto) mechanism. If you don't depend on that auto stuff, I've been fine in a number  of external players

Now if Imeric is dependent on iTunes or a portable device with limited display capacities ... well that's something else again. Either one maps the external field to a field that JRiver can interpret, or a custom field is made that the external device can import.

There are plenty of posts on how to create custom Fields ... here's a recent one where I posted a screen shot which shows how http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103370.msg718109#msg718109

remember that screen shot comes from field name comparisons to help "mapping". MC is not limited to that one column, as it is not writing only IP3 tags ... neither is dbpoweramp for FLAC files. It might be common sense to use an IP3 tagger if you only use mp3s, but it doesn't make sense to not use extended tags for loss-less file containers.

[imeric]

The only thing I find slightly  different is the Album Artist field handling (probably something to do with their Album Artist (Auto) mechanism. If you don't depend on that auto stuff, I've been fine in a number  of external players

If that's the case ie, if MC needs the id3v2.3 written both as:

ID3v2.3 Tag:
TPE2 (Album Artist): Rush
TXXX (Album Artist): Rush

For XYZ reason such as helping out with the ALbum Artist (Auto), backward compatibility I'll accept it and consider this closed.

If it's not required I'm ONLY asking for this:

TPE2 (Album Artist): Rush
TXXX (Album Artist): Rush
Plain and simple.

As an FYI I use mp3tag to just get rid of the TXXX tag as above. (or dbpoweramp, or foobar...)

There are plenty of posts on how to create custom Fields ... here's a recent one where I posted a screen shot which shows how http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103370.msg718109#msg718109

remember that screen shot comes from field name comparisons to help "mapping". MC is not limited to that one column, as it is not writing only IP3 tags ... neither is dbpoweramp for FLAC files. It might be common sense to use an IP3 tagger if you only use mp3s, but it doesn't make sense to not use extended tags for loss-less file containers.

Thx Arindelle I will definitely have a look at this post and try it out tonight.

[imeric]

I tried to create a custom field following Arindelle's post to show the TXX album artist tag without success.

I didn't have any problems creating one for ALAC files

[blgentry]

Really though, why do you care?  That extra tag doesn't hurt anything.  It doesn't affect playback from JRiver.  It doesn't affect your ability to properly tag the file with the right values.  Do you have another player that it interacts with in some way?

Brian.

[imeric]

iTunes, Foobar, dbpoweramp and iTunes ALL show me duplicates for album artist on MP3 when tagged with MC21. And yes I still use them from time to time

As an example: Rush/Rush.

Is it a big deal? NO.
Is it a burden for me? Yes.
Does my Music still play fine and do I love MC any less because of it? No... But That's not the point...
Is MC still the best out there? Of course..I'm just trying to make it perfect!!

Why not just get rid of the TXX tag! It's useless unless someone tells me otherwise.

One other thing I tried to do was to create custom field to see this tag in MC beside the tag dump and I couldn't figure out how (see snapshot).

[glynor]

All I could see from other posts shared by Glynor was it has to do with older versions of MC?

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51094.msg348787#msg348787

Wasn't me. That was Alex B, who probably knows more about the tagging standards than anyone around here (though Alex has been MIA lately). In fact, if it is that way on purpose, it was probably due to Matt asking Alex what would work best.  

I will say that, when it comes to tagging, the "standards" are all a wreck (because standards are unicorns). The general MC "philosophy" can be summed up in two generic rules:

1. First, do no harm.
2. Whenever not prevented by rule #1, try to support as many players and other tools as is possible (even if they behave counter to the "standards", because they all do).

It is certainly possible that this was done long ago in days of yore for compatibility with some braindead application (maybe an even older version of MC itself). But, as others have pointed out, what harm does it do?

One thing that would also help me is to know how to create a custom library field..Couldn't figure out how on the wiki...http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Fields

This is covered in the article decently well:

Media Center includes a number of predefined Fields, and you can add as many of your own custom fields as you'd like! To view and manage the Fields currently available in your Library, use the Library Field Manager available at Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields.

<snip>

As mentioned above, you can also create a nearly limitless array of custom fields to store any information about your files you can dream up. Custom fields may be added with the Add New Field button in the Manage Library Fields dialog. You can add both standard fields that look and act just like the predefined fields, and also calculated fields, that outputs the value of an Expression on the fly whenever displayed.

It is really quite simple. Open the Library Field Manager as described above. Click Add New Field.

[JimH]

Is it a big deal? NO.

That's good to hear.  I'm closing this now.