Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DocLotus]

Just did a clean install of Windows 10 Pro on my PC.

I've noticed that many times when I shut down Win 10, about half way through the process a screen will pop up saying something about Media Center is running background processes... (TV Recording). Do you want to terminate the process?

I have to terminate it before Windows will continue the shut down process.

Is there an MC Option that will stop all TV Recordings upon Windows shutdown? I looked for one but was not able to locate such an option.

[JimH]

I don't see a problem.  If you're recording TV, that message seems appropriate. 

You could stop TV recording and then shut down if you think it isn't.

[DocLotus]

That means a simple single step shutdown in Win 8.1 has become a two step process in Win 10... not my cup of tea.

I really don't need TV Recordings to continue after a Win shutdown. For me that's late at night (TV that I usually don't watch anyways).

Looks like an option choice may be called for here.

[RoderickGI]

Your use case is very unusual here Doc. Most people, well probably everybody else, want recordings to continue so that they can watch them later at their convenience. Because you record lots of stuff and then watch it during the day, or want it deleted, I can understand why you wouldn't want a late night recording to continue, but it is a unique requirement. You are effectively time shifting multiple channels and I assume skipping commercials and uninteresting stuff.

It may even be hard to implement an Option, as it ties into the Windows priority and shutdown processes, where some applications/processes will accept a shutdown request, and others will not. Because they are supposed to complete without interruption. Making that switchable for a particular process in MC may be difficult, and/or have unintended consequences.

This is why I don't shut down my PC, and just let it sleep when I finish with it. Then it will complete all recordings I have asked it to, and then sleep, and then wake for the next recording. That is the intended operation of PVR software.

[DocLotus]

Your use case is very unusual here Doc. Most people, well probably everybody else, want recordings to continue so that they can watch them later at their convenience. Because you record lots of stuff and then watch it during the day, or want it deleted, I can understand why you wouldn't want a late night recording to continue, but it is a unique requirement. You are effectively time shifting multiple channels and I assume skipping commercials and uninteresting stuff.

It may even be hard to implement an Option, as it ties into the Windows priority and shutdown processes, where some applications/processes will accept a shutdown request, and others will not. Because they are supposed to complete without interruption. Making that switchable for a particular process in MC may be difficult, and/or have unintended consequences.

This is why I don't shut down my PC, and just let it sleep when I finish with it. Then it will complete all recordings I have asked it to, and then sleep, and then wake for the next recording. That is the intended operation of PVR software.

Good points all.

Only problem is I really hate stuff that causes my system to slow down (or in this case completely stop until I intervene). I even spent several hours discovering how to get rid of Windows 10 PIN (AND later the Login password) because it slowed me down at boot up & served no useful purpose (for me with a single, stand-a-lone desktop & no network). My best friend feels the same exact way; why have something get in your way when the user has no need for it.

Anyway, if the option can be implemented I would be most grateful (AND my computer will LOVE you for it ).

[JimH]

I even spent several hours discovering how to get rid of Windows 10 PIN (AND later the Login password) because it slowed me down at boot up & served no useful purpose ...

This kind of twiddling with the OS is exactly the kind of thing that could cause unexpected problems.

This is why I don't shut down my PC, and just let it sleep when I finish with it. Then it will complete all recordings I have asked it to, and then sleep, and then wake for the next recording. That is the intended operation of PVR software.

I also do this and it works fine.

[DocLotus]

This kind of twiddling with the OS is exactly the kind of thing that could cause unexpected problems.

Not in this case. There is actually a check box on one of the Windows User Accounts screens (if you know where to look) that does not actually turn off the Login Password but rather automatically enters it (in the background) for the user. The overall effect being the user does not have to enter the password & boot up goes much faster to the Desktop.

[RoderickGI]

Waking a PC from sleep is much faster than booting up. 

My HTPC has automatic logon implemented as well as sleep. Anytime it does need a reboot I just initiate it and walk away. The HTPC does everything it needs and is ready with MC in Theatre View when I get back. Or it may have rebooted and then gone back to sleep.

[DocLotus]

Waking a PC from sleep is much faster than booting up.  

My HTPC has automatic logon implemented as well as sleep. Anytime it does need a reboot I just initiate it and walk away. The HTPC does everything it needs and is ready with MC in Theatre View when I get back. Or it may have rebooted and then gone back to sleep.

Agreed.

My boot up is a little different then the normal boot up. Starting in Windows 8.0 MS quietly introduced an undocumented "Hybrid Hibernate" shut down (it's not on the Windows menu, even in Win 10). It's created in a shortcut with this code...
"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /t 00" whereas /T=time delay.

What's "Hybrid" is it's sort of a cross between Hibernate & a normal full shut down. What it does is...

1: Like regular Hibernate, it saves the running Windows settings to a "hiberfil.sys" file on the root of drive C (but NOT your running programs so the file is smaller then a regular hiberfil.sys file).
2: Upon boot up... hiberfil.sys file is read (just like regular Hibernate) quickly restoring Windows last settings.
3: Upon loading the Desktop... unlike regular Hibernate, Hybrid Hibernate re-loads all you Startup files & programs (including MC TV). This is VERY important as I never could get regular Hibernate to play TV at Startup.
4: As all the Startup programs are re-loaded upon each boot the system stays cleaner with less junk build up between normal boots.
5: Hybrid Hibernate boots the computer in about half the time it take for a normal boot up.

[DocLotus]

Things just got a little more complicated... I'm now getting a SECOND pop-up that has to be manually closed. The first one is a Windows message as discussed in the opening of this thread.  As soon as I close the first Windows message a second pop-up from MC telling me that a TV Recording is running & I have to close it also at which time the whole computer will lock up... hard. The only way I can get out of it is to turn the AC power off & back on & sometimes Windows won't boot until I cycle the power again.

Even without the hard lockup, having to perform three steps to shut down my computer is not acceptable>
1: Click on Shutdown.
2: Close Windows message.
3: Close MC message.

If this is a normal thing in Win 10, there are going to be a lot of unhappy MC TV users out there.

I suggest an option to allow the user the choice to have MC stop all TV recording upon closure of MC either manually or at computer shutdown.

OR...

Have MC detect all Windows shutdowns attempts & exit all TV recordings before Windows gets a chance to actually do the shutdown.

[RoderickGI]

I never installed Windows 8, and haven't upgraded to Windows 10 yet. However . . .

My understanding of the Windows 8 Fast Boot process is that a Shutdown, even through the normal Windows menu, is always a Hybrid Hibernate. One reference, for example: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/how-windows-8-hybrid-shutdown-fast-boot-feature-works/

So it shouldn't be necessary to use a shutdown shortcut to get the PC to do a Hybrid Hibernate. Just do a normal shutdown. In fact, in Windows 8+, you have to use a shutdown command "Shutdown /s /t 0" to force a full shutdown, according to the above article and various others on the topic.

Regardless, if you want Windows to force MC to close without asking you, just add the /f parameter to your shutdown shortcut, or add a small time to the /t parameter, say five seconds, in which case the /f parameter is implied. Windows will then silently force MC to close after waiting for it to close for five seconds. i.e.

"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"   or   "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /t 05"

References:
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/7418-shut-down-computer-windows-10-a.html
http://forum.thewindowsclub.com/windows-tips-tutorials-articles/34495-new-cmd-switches-shutdown-exe-windows-8-includes-hybrid-but-not-full.html

Done. But of course, there may be consequences, possibly serious consequences, of forcing MC to close. Corrupt TV recordings, or at least the last file if recording in JTV format and the whole file if recording in TS format, would be likely. A corrupt library would be possible, if background processes were running. Orphaned TV recordings perhaps, if the cleanup process was running at the time. Who knows what else.

As I have said before, your use case of wanting to record lots of stuff during the day, and then kill all recordings when you shut down at night even if they match recording rules, is unusual, and will have unexpected consequences. Why don't you just let the PC sleep when able, and record everything when programs match rules, 24/7, then let MC delete stuff you don't need? Sure, it will use more power and hard drive space, but at least MC will run "clean" without all these special concerns.

[DocLotus]

I never installed Windows 8, and haven't upgraded to Windows 10 yet. However . . .

My understanding of the Windows 8 Fast Boot process is that a Shutdown, even through the normal Windows menu, is always a Hybrid Hibernate. One reference, for example: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/how-windows-8-hybrid-shutdown-fast-boot-feature-works/

So it shouldn't be necessary to use a shutdown shortcut to get the PC to do a Hybrid Hibernate. Just do a normal shutdown. In fact, in Windows 8+, you have to use a shutdown command "Shutdown /s /t 0" to force a full shutdown, according to the above article and various others on the topic.

Fast Boot requires a GUI BIOS motherboard that supports the Fast Boot process... mine just missed the Fast Boot express train by a couple of months (just before Win 8 came out) so I use a shortcut to get Hybrid Hibernate to work. The funny thing is my MB does have a GUI BIOS (but no Fast Boot capabilities... the next model does). I will be upgrading in a few months though.  

Regardless, if you want Windows to force MC to close without asking you, just add the /f parameter to your shutdown shortcut, or add a small time to the /t parameter, say five seconds, in which case the /f parameter is implied. Windows will then silently force MC to close after waiting for it to close for five seconds. i.e.

"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"   or   "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /t 05"

References:
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/7418-shut-down-computer-windows-10-a.html
http://forum.thewindowsclub.com/windows-tips-tutorials-articles/34495-new-cmd-switches-shutdown-exe-windows-8-includes-hybrid-but-not-full.html

AMAZING stuff here... THANKS.

I'll try the /f &/or add some time to the string & see how it goes.

Done. But of course, there may be consequences, possibly serious consequences, of forcing MC to close. Corrupt TV recordings, or at least the last file if recording in JTV format and the whole file if recording in TS format, would be likely. A corrupt library would be possible, if background processes were running. Orphaned TV recordings perhaps, if the cleanup process was running at the time. Who knows what else.

There are always some consequences in life but sometimes we learn to deal with them.

As I have said before, your use case of wanting to record lots of stuff during the day, and then kill all recordings when you shut down at night even if they match recording rules, is unusual, and will have unexpected consequences. Why don't you just let the PC sleep when able, and record everything when programs match rules, 24/7, then let MC delete stuff you don't need? Sure, it will use more power and hard drive space, but at least MC will run "clean" without all these special concerns.

Have tried using Sleep in Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, 8.0 & 8.1 all to no avail. It will go to Sleep but often won't say sleeping, seems like something always wakes the computer. I can put the computer to sleep, go to lunch, come back & the computer is on for no reason.

Sometimes Sleep is not even a shutdown option in Windows Start menu. Sleep is partly a function of the Video card; if the card does not support it Sleep won't be available as a Shutdown option.

I've had so many problems with Sleep with so much hardware that I never use it anymore so the Hybrid Hibernate shutdown is my best option.

After I upgrade my hardware (and implement Fast Boot) my computer will boot from power on to the Desktop in around 6 seconds... fast enough.

[DocLotus]

Regardless, if you want Windows to force MC to close without asking you, just add the /f parameter to your shutdown shortcut, or add a small time to the /t parameter, say five seconds, in which case the /f parameter is implied. Windows will then silently force MC to close after waiting for it to close for five seconds. i.e.

"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"   or   "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /t 05"

Just added the /f switch to my Hybrid Hibernate shortcut... works like a champ (so far) NO MORE double pop-ups driving me nuts.

As soon as the Shutting Down Windows screen comes up. the little moving circle thing stops for about 5 seconds then moves on without the two maddening pop-ups... simply wonderful

Now, all I have to do is wait a few days for those consequences.

MANY THANKS.

[RoderickGI]

You're welcome. Good to hear the first step worked.

Sleep can be a bit tricky. The BIOS or UEFI does need to support it, and be set up correctly. It must be set to S3 not S5 level of sleep to work correctly. Plus of course, all the hardware needs to support it as well, including the video card. But my old 2010 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 motherboard, which only has BOIS and not UEFI, supports sleep perfectly. I haven't checked whether it supports Fast Boot, as I don't use it. But it supports Sleep, Hibernate, or the Windows 7 version of hybrid hibernate, which is Sleep plus Hibernate.

I do see my HTPC wakes up sometimes when I think it shouldn't, but if I investigate it is usually because a background process such as a Norton 360 update check has woken it up. If you check the Windows Task Scheduler you will see a bunch of tasks set up by various software installations to do maintenance checks, and even some Windows tasks. I ignore that behaviour now, unless one of my PCs get stuck on all the time. Usually they just go back to sleep when finished doing what ever they were doing.

[DocLotus]

I will investigate Sleep once again after I update my hardware but that won't be until early next year.

[DocLotus]

Regardless, if you want Windows to force MC to close without asking you, just add the /f parameter to your shutdown shortcut, or add a small time to the /t parameter, say five seconds, in which case the /f parameter is implied. Windows will then silently force MC to close after waiting for it to close for five seconds. i.e.

"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"   or   "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /t 05"

Done. But of course, there may be consequences, possibly serious consequences, of forcing MC to close. Corrupt TV recordings, or at least the last file if recording in JTV format and the whole file if recording in TS format, would be likely. A corrupt library would be possible, if background processes were running. Orphaned TV recordings perhaps, if the cleanup process was running at the time. Who knows what else.

May have encountered one of those possibly serious consequences.

Just noticed this morning that my drive F now has TWO locations to store recorded TV...
1: The one I created after the Win 10 clean install... F:\J River\TV Recordings.
2: The old one used on the previous Win 8... F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings.

I looked at TV Options & it does show F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings which is NOT what I set the TV up for Win 10.

The curious thing is the time stamp... just before 10:00 PM, around the same time I started using the /f switch. This sounds impossible but there it is.

None of the recording in F:\J River\TV Recordings will play while the new ones in F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings do.

Any ideas?

[DocLotus]

Just added the /f switch to my Hybrid Hibernate shortcut.

That took care of Hybrid Hibernate but the dual pop-ups were still there for both normal Shutdown & Restart. So I added the /f switch to them also & presto... no more dual pop-ups bugging the heck out of me.

The /f switch is simply wonderful for Win 10 AND MC TV.

Cheers.

[JimH]

Make sure you have quotes around the whole command or the switches will be interpreted separately.

If you're frequently forcing MC to quit, it might cause problems.

[DocLotus]

Make sure you have quotes around the whole command or the switches will be interpreted separately.

If you're frequently forcing MC to quit, it might cause problems.

Got it, thanks.

[RoderickGI]

May have encountered one of those possibly serious consequences.

Just noticed this morning that my drive F now has TWO locations to store recorded TV...
1: The one I created after the Win 10 clean install... F:\J River\TV Recordings.
2: The old one used on the previous Win 8... F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings.

I looked at TV Options & it does show F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings which is NOT what I set the TV up for Win 10.

The curious thing is the time stamp... just before 10:00 PM, around the same time I started using the /f switch. This sounds impossible but there it is.

None of the recording in F:\J River\TV Recordings will play while the new ones in F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings do.

Any ideas?

Well the MC Library is made up of lots of files. If MC is forced shut, and one or more of those files aren't closed properly, they could be corrupted. In which case at the next start MC would probably load with defaults.

Maybe MC remembered which drive to put recordings on, but the directly was lost through corruption, so it reverted to the default directory structure. Or maybe it got the old directory from a backup? I don't know.

The TV files that won't play are much easier to explain, if they were the ones recording when MC was forced to shut. They were corrupted. A key part of video files are written when the file is closed, at the end of the file. That part contains the size, format, etc. which allows the file to be played. It has to be written at the end of recording when all information is known. So a force shutdown prevents that part being written, and the file is unplayable. Well, most file formats I know about work that way. I assume JTV and TS files work that way as well.

But have you lost all files in that directory, even ones that weren't recording at shutdown time? That would be more difficult to explain, other than disk or NTFS index corruption.

[Yaobing]

This is a bit strange.  As far as TV recording folder is concerned, MC reverts to default location only if 1. it can not find the setting in registry, or 2. it finds the settings in the registry but the location indicated by the setting is not accessible.

[DocLotus]

So "\Video\JRiver\TV Recordings" is a JRiver default? I had suspected that but had no idea why it reverted to that.

None of the files in the directory that I created (F:\J River\TV Recordings) would play so I deleted them along with the same ones in MC.

So far today no problems.

I'm just going to stay with the default directory as that seems to be the one MC favors.

[muzicman0]

Is there a MCC command to stop all recordings?  If so, this could be a simple way to stop recordings and then do a shutdown so that a force close isn't required.

[DocLotus]

Is there a MCC command to stop all recordings?  If so, this could be a simple way to stop recordings and then do a shutdown so that a force close isn't required.

Sort of... "File\Exit" brings up a screen warning that recording will be terminated. You have to manually select "Yes" to stop the TV Recordings.

I've noticed that most times when I do a File\Exit & select "Yes" AND there are TV programs being recorded all goes pretty well (MC will do the cleanup of outdated recordings).

It would be nice if it could be implemented as an option to automatically do a "Yes" at MC shutdown which would make Windows shutdown better (see next paragraph).

Just doing a Windows shutdown (with the /f option) which gives MC time to shutdown seems to leave corrupted recordings that do not get cleaned up.
 

[RoderickGI]

Is there a MCC command to stop all recordings?  If so, this could be a simple way to stop recordings and then do a shutdown so that a force close isn't required.

There is an MCC_EXIT command with a force close option to close the server.

So I guess if the Shutdown shortcut called batch file with the commands;

"MC21.exe /mcc 20007,1"
"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"

That may close MC cleanly including stopping any TV recordings, then the shutdown command would force Windows to close. It may not even be necessary to use the /f command.

There is also an MCC_SHUTDOWN Command that may (should) exit MC cleanly first, and then shutdown Windows. But that would have to be tested.

"MC21.exe /mcc 27001,0"

[DocLotus]

There is an MCC_EXIT command with a force close option to close the server.

So I guess if the Shutdown shortcut called batch file with the commands;

"MC21.exe /mcc 20007,1"
"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"

That may close MC cleanly including stopping any TV recordings, then the shutdown command would force Windows to close. It may not even be necessary to use the /f command.

There is also an MCC_SHUTDOWN Command that may (should) exit MC cleanly first, and then shutdown Windows. But that would have to be tested.

"MC21.exe /mcc 27001,0"

That's GREAT news. I'll give them both a try.  Stay tuned.

[DocLotus]

There is an MCC_EXIT command with a force close option to close the server.

So I guess if the Shutdown shortcut called batch file with the commands;

"MC21.exe /mcc 20007,1"
"C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00"

That may close MC cleanly including stopping any TV recordings, then the shutdown command would force Windows to close. It may not even be necessary to use the /f command.

It works BUT... same old problem; MC TV Recording dialog box still pops up wanting me to manually press the "Yes" button at which time the shut down completes (if only there was a way to have MC press the Yes button automatically all this would not even be necessary.

There is also an MCC_SHUTDOWN Command that may (should) exit MC cleanly first, and then shutdown Windows. But that would have to be tested.

"MC21.exe /mcc 27001,0"

It seems to work. Will have to wait a couple of days to see if cleanup is also doing it's thing.

[RoderickGI]

It works BUT... same old problem;

Strange. I would have expected the Force Close option to do just that; force MC to close, without a confirmation box. Particularly as this is a programmatic close.

It seems to work. Will have to wait a couple of days to see if cleanup is also doing it's thing.

So this command closes MC and Windows without popup messages? Sounds good then. As it is a MC command, I would hope that it does a clean shutdown of MC before shutting down Windows. It may not force Windows to shut other programs though. I think you could check if it is doing this in the Windows Event log, of not for MC and other programs, then at least for Windows.

[DocLotus]

So this command closes MC and Windows without popup messages? Sounds good then. As it is a MC command, I would hope that it does a clean shutdown of MC before shutting down Windows. It may not force Windows to shut other programs though. I think you could check if it is doing this in the Windows Event log, of not for MC and other programs, then at least for Windows.

Yes, no darn popup.

As far as forcing Windows to close other programs I think it does not because as soon as the Shutting Down Windows screen comes up (with the little moving circle thingie) my computer powers down very quickly now so I suspect Windows is not closing other programs.

Don't really know what other problems that can cause but so far none have emerged.

As far as the Event Log (Event Viewer) is concerned every time I look at it my eyes cross as there is SO much data that I have never really figured it out.

[RoderickGI]

If that command is working for you, great.

If you want to test if the command is correctly closing programs, just create a Notepad document, leave it unsaved and the program open, and then run the command.

If Windows asks you to save the document then it is properly closing programs. If Windows doesn't ask, Windows is forcing programs to close.

[DocLotus]

If that command is working for you, great.

If you want to test if the command is correctly closing programs, just create a Notepad document, leave it unsaved and the program open, and then run the command.

If Windows asks you to save the document then it is properly closing programs. If Windows doesn't ask, Windows is forcing programs to close.

It did not ask when I ran the command.

What is the difference between...
* Properly closing programs.
* Forcing programs to close?

Usually I have saved all my work before shutting down Windows so does it make any real difference?.

[RoderickGI]

Properly closing programs means that Windows sends an instruction to the program to close, and waits a certain amount of time for them to do so. If they don't close when requested, you get that message from Windows saying it couldn't close the program.

Forcing programs to close means that Windows simply kills the program processes, just like you are able to do in the Windows Task Manager. Nothing is saved. The memory is cleared, or at least the memory pointers are, and any open files are usually just left as they are. That can mean that the file can't be opened again in the future, as it is seen as corrupted. Or the software that uses the file may be able to open it and repair its status. Also, I think NTFS does a little file management to protect files a bit. Not sure on that.

But basically, properly closing is like pulling a car to a stop, putting it in Park, then turning it off, while a forced close is like turning a car off while still doing 80mph on the freeway.

While saving all your work before forcing Windows to shut down will protect your work files, it won't protect all program files. Even if you have shut down a program, it may still be cleaning up in the background. Just take MC as an example, where it takes about 30 seconds for the MC processes to close, after the program is closed.

So yes, it makes a difference. It may make very little difference, or it may make a lot of difference, depending on the programs involved.

[DocLotus]

Thanks, that's a lot to think about.

One problem I do have with the "MC21.exe /mcc 27001,0" shutdown command is there is no Hybrid Hibernate choice, just the regular Windows Hibernate (switch 2). Would it be possible for JRiver to add another switch for Hybrid Hibernate?

[RoderickGI]

Well, as per discussion above: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100656.msg698498#msg698498
Hybrid is the default for Windows 8 and 10, although it requires Fast Boot. So once your hardware supports Fast Boot, you will get a Hybrid Hibernate.

Maybe more parameters could be passed to the command, but given the short time span it would be required the developers may not prioritise the changes required.

I guess you could just use a normal Hibernate, but I have no idea what that would do to a currently recording TV program. Not good I imagine, and you would probably get popups again.

[DocLotus]

Well, as per discussion above: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100656.msg698498#msg698498
Hybrid is the default for Windows 8 and 10, although it requires Fast Boot. So once your hardware supports Fast Boot, you will get a Hybrid Hibernate.

To bad one has to upgrade the equipment to make a simple function work.

Maybe more parameters could be passed to the command, but given the short time span it would be required the developers may not prioritise the changes required.

What is really needed to avoid all this mess is a new option similar to the one that already exist for Time Shifting (see JPEG) but... for TV Recording.  How hard could it be to implement? It has already been done for Time Shifting how about doing it for TV Recording?

I guess you could just use a normal Hibernate, but I have no idea what that would do to a currently recording TV program. Not good I imagine, and you would probably get popups again.

Have already tried that, no popups (yippy) but MC makes some weird sounds when coming out of Hibernate plus of course my programs do not load from scratch which means that Windows crud can build up over time which happens when programs are saved & re-used over & over as Hibernate does normally.

I think the real long-term answer to this problem is a new option similar to the current Time Shifting options. Any chance that can be done?

[DocLotus]

WOW, WOW, WOW

You can simply disregard all my above comments in this whole thread as...

Something BIG has changed in MC since I started this thread.

As we were discussing using the standard Windows Hibernate to shut down, I decided to add the Hibernate command to Win 10's Start menu Power button (as it does not exist after a clean install.) So I went to the Power options & added it.

I fully expected it to show the maddening double popups upon Hibernating Windows BUT... NO darn POPUPS  What a surprise . I did not see that coming at all

So, I tried the other Windows shutdown commands... Shutdown & Restart; guess what, still no darn popups either.

Just before executing each command I made very sure a TV Recording was taking place. After re-booting back up I looked at MC's TV Recordings and in EVERY case the recording had been saved & was currently being recorded. In other words, ALL WAS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED  EVERYTHING was working smoothly. TV Recording are now being automatically stopped & saved upon Windows Shutdown, Hibernate or Restart... ABSOLUTELY PERFECT

I also thought "could it be the shortcuts I use to Shutdown, Hibernate & Restart Windows be the real culprit in this long scenario of events?" Such as... "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /hybrid /f /t 00".

So, I removed the /f option from all of them & guess what?  They too ran exactly like Win 10's Start Power button commands... NO POPUPS, plus MC was cleanly stopping TV Recording & restarting the recording as soon as MC reloaded after a boot up, Restart or Hybrid Hibernate. In other words, MC was doing it's thing exactly like I need it to do.
 
I don't know what has changed in MC since starting this thread. At the time I was using 21.0.11, am currently using 21.0.17. I will very carefully review all the MC version updates to try to figure exactly what the improvement is & when it came about.

I'm a real HAPPY CAMPER now.

MC TV may just (eventually after a few more improvements) make my top 10 list of all time favorite programs (MC Audio is already there).

Stay tuned folks.
Cheers.

[DocLotus]

Possible candidates for MC TV Recording shutdown fix...

21.0.12
4. Changed: Re-designed video transcoding engine (internal change).

21.0.14
3. Changed: Stopping video playback when using madVR would paint the splash screen of the video, but now that drawing is disabled.

The above two changes are the only obvious ones that I could find. Possibly Yaobing could comment (and enlighten us) about what has changed in MC TV Recording shutdown

[DocLotus]

Since the last post I have used all of Windows Start Power button methods to shutdown, reboot & etc. including my own shortcuts many, many times. In all but one case everything went very smoothly with MC stopping & restarting TV Recordings as it should be. The one exception was using my Shutdown shortcut "C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /t 00" the old Windows popup saying something about a recording was taking place came up BUT I did not have to manually close it; it closed itself... GREAT.

I then tried the Windows Start Power button for Shutdown & no popup of any kind. I re ran my shortcut for Shutdown again & this time no popup.  I have ran all the commands several times since & no popups so it seems that the one popup I saw may be a one of event.

Fingers Crossed

[DocLotus]

I've also noticed that MC no longer shows the little "Updating Database" popup dialog box when doing an MC File/Exit, but the TC Recordings are still being updated & cleaned correctly. Must be side effect of the new changes.

[RoderickGI]

I have no idea what made the behaviour change. But if it works for you, great.

I just hope it doesn't mean MC will always just close when a Shutdown/Hibernate/Sleep in manually performed, as most people want to be warned with a message about a currently running recording when they do any of those actions.

I don't think either of the MC changes you listed would have changed the shutdown behaviour.

[DocLotus]

I just hope it doesn't mean MC will always just close when a Shutdown/Hibernate/Sleep in manually performed, as most people want to be warned with a message about a currently running recording when they do any of those actions.

MC still provides the normal TV Recording in progress dialog when you do a File/Exit so it should not be a problem for you (hopefully).

As I suggested a few post ago this may still be needed...

"What is really needed to avoid all this mess is a new option similar to the one that already exist for Time Shifting (see JPEG) but... for TV Recording.  How hard could it be to implement? It has already been done for Time Shifting how about doing it for TV Recording?"

This option (like the Time Shifting Option) gives the user the choice of getting a warning message or not & under what conditions.. not a bad thing at all.

Keep us updated as to how (if at all) the new changes effect your style of recording TV.

Cheers.

[RoderickGI]

Saving a Time Shifting file automatically when you stop watching a channel, or asking if it should be saved, is quite a different thing to saving a scheduled, in process TV recording or asking if a user wants to save what has been recorded so far.

Time Shifting files are always created, if Time Shifting is turned on. Most users only use them while watching "Live" TV and have no need to save the Time Shifting files. Time Shifting files aren't planned activities.

TV recordings are planned activities that a user wants to occur. The decision to record the program has already been made to save the recoding file. I as a user wouldn't want anyone else in the household to be asked if my recording should be stopped or not, or if what has been recorded so far should be kept or discarded. Why have someone second guess the decision that has already been made? A scheduled TV recording should always "Always save" the recording file.

As I have said before, your use case is just so different to anything I have seen from any other users, for any TV recording software, ever.

But that is okay. 

[DocLotus]

Saving a Time Shifting file automatically when you stop watching a channel, or asking if it should be saved, is quite a different thing to saving a scheduled, in process TV recording or asking if a user wants to save what has been recorded so far.

Time Shifting files are always created, if Time Shifting is turned on. Most users only use them while watching "Live" TV and have no need to save the Time Shifting files. Time Shifting files aren't planned activities.

TV recordings are planned activities that a user wants to occur. The decision to record the program has already been made to save the recoding file. I as a user wouldn't want anyone else in the household to be asked if my recording should be stopped or not, or if what has been recorded so far should be kept or discarded. Why have someone second guess the decision that has already been made? A scheduled TV recording should always "Always save" the recording file.

As I have said before, your use case is just so different to anything I have seen from any other users, for any TV recording software, ever.

But that is okay.  

I totally agree with what you say. I also completely agree that "A scheduled TV recording should always "Always save" the recording file." In fact, whatever the new changes to MC are they are indeed saving the recording before shutting down. That seems to be now working nicely.  I'm not suggesting any changes here, just the ability for the user to have an option (similar to Time Shifting) to have MC not show the TV Recording in progress popup dialog at MC shutdown (especially using the File/Exit command). It would be like having MC press the "Save Recording" Yes button in the dialog for you automatically. The recording will still be saved but no dialog will pop up; just a clean, fast close.

[Yaobing]

I did not make any changes.  Not sure what is going on.

[DocLotus]

I've also noticed that MC no longer shows the little "Updating Database" popup dialog box when doing an MC File/Exit, but the TC Recordings are still being updated & cleaned correctly. Must be side effect of the new changes.

Was wrong about that one; the little "Updating Database" dialog does still briefly comes up when doing an MC File\Exit command if there are recordings under way. That is acting normally.

[DocLotus]

I did not make any changes.  Not sure what is going on.

Could it be something done to the video parts of MC that may have effected TV?

[Yaobing]

Could it be something done to the video parts of MC that may have effected TV?

I believe the video work done by Hendrik is for video playback.  When recording a TV program, no video playback is involved, unless you are simultaneously watching the show.

[DocLotus]

Very strange indeed. Whatever the cause, it is working very nicely.

[DocLotus]

Could it be an MS Update? I had a couple two days ago so the time frame may fit.

Reason I ask is the original problem with all the unwanted popups started AFTER the Desktop closed in a Shutdown, Hibernate, Hybrid Hibernate or Restart. They would pop up just after the "Windows is shutting down" message (after the little circular Shutting Down thingie). The popup was rather crude looking, sort of an orange on darker orange screen; not the usual clean looking MS screens.

Maybe MS made a small change to how Windows handles things after the Desktop closes.

What do you think?