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[macdonjh]

In the Options -> Handheld menu I've invoked the option to "delete from handheld any files not on the sync list", but I don't think the feature is working for me.  I have some theories, but will someone explain to me how this function is supposed to work?  I am hoping that if I have tracks "a", "b" and "c" on my PAD and I sync with tracks "D", "E", and "F" that tracks "a", "b" and "c" will be removed from the PAD and tracks "D", "E", and "F" will be added.  That's not what's happening, though.

[blgentry]

What you've described is what should happen.  Maybe try reformatting your portable drive and try again?

Brian.

[macdonjh]

I'm hesitant to reformat the "drive" since it's really an A&K Jr PAD. 

[macdonjh]

Please help me out, this feature is definitely not working for me.  I've tried the following:
1: connect my PAD
2: manually delete all the songs from the PAD by using the Finder and moving them to Trash, then emptying the Trash
3: dragging and dropping songs into the Sync Action Box
4: Syncing
Old songs are still there

1: connect my PAD
2: drag and drop new songs into the Sync Action Box
3: sync
Old songs are still there

1: connect my PAD
2: refresh the Smartlist that I use to select new songs to sync
3: check in Options -> Handheld to be sure that the "delete songs not on sync list" option is selected
4: open the Sync Action Box
5: try sunc and am usually told that the handheld is synced

What am I doing wrong?  Should I be setting up what I want to sync before connecting the PAD?

[macdonjh]

New detail: after I complete a sync, if I "recheck sync" the sync queue gets filled up with the same songs that I've been trying to delete from the sync queue for the past week.  How do I clear the sync queue?

[blgentry]

Have you tried this through Drives and Devices  (just below Playlists on the left hand side) instead of the Action window?  I never use the action window for anything.

When you use drives and devices and "recheck sync" it shows you what it's going to do, including deleting files that are no longer necessary.  I haven't used this a lot, but I've used it a few times, and it mostly seemed to work, though I do recall a tiny bit of strange behavior. (But can't remember the exact details).

Brian.

[macdonjh]

Thanks for the suggestion, Brian.  I tried it tonight.  There is no difference in the way MC acts.  I had something like 10 GB of music on my PAD (64GB total memory).  I refreshed my Smartlist so I'd have a fresh set of songs and then clicked on the Devices menu item.  It showed me that the new songs were in the queue for sync and the songs currently on my PAD were on my PAD.  What it didn't show is that those "existing" songs were going to be deleted off my PAD.  That's what I want.

So let me start over: what I want is to set up a way for MC to select a set of songs that I haven't listened to in a while, move that set of songs onto my PAD and remove the old music from my PAD.  That way I don't listen to the same music over and over.  I modified one of the stock smart lists ("5GB Random Music" or some similar title) to include rules that the list sorts music so that songs with the longest time since "last played" are first, then 5GB are picked from the top of the list, then the list is shuffled.  When I sync, I invoke the "delete all files not on the sync list" option in device management.  Should that system work?  It's not for me.  Help

[RoderickGI]

Should that system work?  It's not for me.  Help

I think the answer is yes, it should work.

I had some trouble when I was testing syncing to a local directory a while back, where I was using a fixed Smartlist and then manual Playlist. But in the end I got it working.

I Just tested it again using the standard "100 Random Songs" Smartlist. A sync put 100 files into the target directory, creating sub-directories for the Artist and Album. I check and refreshed the Smartlist, then resync'd and watched MC delete sub-directories from my target directory, and then add a whole lot more, leaving a new set of 100 files in the target directory structure.

The I added the "Audio - Recently Imported - Last 100 tracks" Smartlist and resync'd. Same thing, sub-directories deleted, new ones added, leaving 200 files in the target directory structure.

Then I unchecked both Smartlists in the Sync options and tried to resync. No go. MC said that the Device was not configured to synchronise, and offered buttons to do it or not.

So I added a fixed Playlist of one song to be synchronised, ran sync, and all 200 previous files were deleted (the deletion is almost instantaneous by the way) and the one file was placed into the target directory structure. I did notice that the Device display in MC showed the wrong playlist name on the device, even though the correct playlist was in the target directory structure. However, when I ran the "Recheck Sync" function the listing in MC was updated to be correct.

So, the sync function is still working. But there is a bit of an anomaly in that if nothing is selected to be sent to the device, then the file deletions aren't done either.

Why don't use test using the same standard Smartlists I did to confirm all is working first, and if that works, look to something in your Smartlist that may be causing a problem.

I'm using the latest version of MC21.

PS:
I was testing using the Device under the "Drive & Devices" navigation option. I just tested dragging a Smartlist to the Sync Handheld Action Window and it worked fine, but it did not add the Smartlist to the Sync Options selection. Not even when I did a "Recheck Sync".

I then ran a Sync Now without fixing the Options, and the 100 files from the Smartlist were deleted from the target directory structure, retaining the single track Playlist I had set up in Sync Options. This should not be happening, I would have thought. The Smartlist should have been added to the selections in the Sync Options, and doing a Resync should not have deleted those 100 files.

I then dragged two Smartlists to the Sync Handheld Action Window and MC sync'd all 200 files, retaining the one Playlist file.

Then I dragged a new 17 track Smartlist to the Sync Handheld Action Window and MC deleted the 200 files and added the 17 files, plus the one Playlist file.

So there is something a little quirky with the functionality. It appears that the Drag and Drop method is a one time sync.

Therefore, I would suggest selecting your device under the "Drives & Devices" navigation option, and setting Sync Option there, at least until you get it all working and understand the pitfalls.

[glynor]

So there is something a little quirky with the functionality. It appears that the Drag and Drop method is a one time sync.

Yes.  When you add files via Drag & Drop, this adds them to the manual sync list, as described on the wiki article:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_Handheld

You can think of it like this: MC maintains a "regular" Playlist for each Handheld which will be synced to the device (the manual sync list).  When you drag-drop onto the Action Window item (or use the Send To > Drives & Devices menu items) this adds files to this manual Playlist. If you drag and drop an entire Smartlist (or View) onto the drop target in the Action Window, this copies the current contents of the Smartlist into that Manual Sync list.

This is the same as how Playing Now works. When you play a Smartlist or Playlist, it copies the current contents of the list into the Playing Now list.  But future changes to the original Smartlist or Playlist don't "flow into" Playing Now (unless you "re-play" the original list).

This manual sync list is persistent (even when you close and re-open MC) just like all other Playlists in MC.  If you add files to it via the drag-and-drop target, then they're added manually, and every time you sync your device with MC, it will re-add any missing items.  So, the description above sounds like it is exactly right. If you added files to the list in MC, then (externally from MC) deleted them, and then re-synced with MC, it will re-add those files (and any new ones).  To remove them from the manual list, you have to open the Handheld up in MC and remove those items from the sync list.

When setting up a Handheld, you can also, optionally, tell it to sync additional Playlists in the Options panel for that Handheld. These will be synced in addition to whatever is on the manual list.  Those are completely separate from the manual list, though, and you can't add to them by drag-dropping from anywhere in MC.

I find using the latter method (Sync Lists) is much easier. You can manage all of your items to be added, and removed, by adding and removing files from Playlists instead. I never add files to the "real" manual list.  I just have a "manual sync" Playlist for stuff I want permanently synced to my devices (which, combined with a slew of auto-populated Smartlists, works splendidly).

[RoderickGI]

Ah, but there is one more small twist in the functionality.

I wasn't seeing the persistent nature of Smartlists added to the Device that you mention, and as described in the Wiki. Each time I dragged a Smartlist to the Device a second time, all the files copied over from the first time were marked for deletion. So I thought the second Drag & Drop was replacing the first. The difference was that I always had something selected to be Sync'd in the Device Options.

I just tested again, but this time I cleared the Device Options and deleted all files from the Device first.

1. Dragged the 100 Random Songs Smartlist to the Device and sync'd. 100 files on the Device.
2. Dragged the 100 Random Songs Smartlist to the Device again. 100 files on the Device, and 100 more In Queue.
3. As that is not what I had seen before, I went into Device Options and added one Playlist that had a single file in it. I now had 100 files marked Delete On Sync, and 101 In Queue. The first lot of files added via the Smartlist had now been flagged to be deleted.
4. I ran the Sync and ended up with 101 files on the Device, as expected. Both the "100 Random Songs" and my "Testing Playlist" were shown as on the device, with 100 and 1 files respectively. But I also noted that the 100 files were marked as " Delete On Sync".
5. So I ran another Sync with no other changes to Device Options, and without dragging any more Playlists or files to the Device. The 100 files were deleted, leaving me with 1 file on the Device.
6. So I dragged the "100 Random Songs" Playlist to the Device again. 100 files In Queue, 1 On Device. Ran the Sync again, 101 files on Device, 100 marked as Delete On Sync, 1 file On Device.
7. Ran the Sync again, with no further changes. 1 file On Device.

So, the manual methods of adding files are persistent, as per the Wiki, unless there is something selected under Device Options, in which case the manual methods of adding files to the device are all once off transfers, removed on the next Sync.

Quirky.

I don't see that functionality documented in the Wiki. If you agree it does work the way I describe, an update may be in order.

Macdonjh, can you use all the discussion to achieve what you want?

If, for example, you created a one song Playlist of say file Z, added that to the Device in Device Options, then Sync'd that to the device. Then added files A, B, & C manually using Drag & Drop and Sync'd, they would be added to your Device. You would have files A, B, C, & Z on your Device. If you later added files D, E, & F manually using Drag & Drop and Sync'd, files A, B, & C would be deleted from your device, and files D, E, & F would be added to your Device. You would have files D, E, F, & Z on your Device.

I believe that was what you originally asked for.

[glynor]

So, the manual methods of adding files are persistent, as per the Wiki, unless there is something selected under Device Options, in which case the manual methods of adding files to the device are all once off transfers, removed on the next Sync.

Quirky.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that's relatively new, and good (I was going to suggest a change to exactly that behavior).  In fact, I just tweaked that article a bit just now, but said the wrong thing! I'll fix it.

That is good, because otherwise it is confusing. When you view the Sync Queue list, and you have both manually added files, and those in selected Lists, you can't tell which are which, nor can you find the "manual" ones (to remove them, for example).  There's no way to tell how they were added.

So, it is best to exclude them entirely (effectively disabling the manual sync list building system) once you enable one or more lists.  I think, from your description, that happens is it lets you still manually add files, but it makes the "manual style" sync list non-persistent (basically clearing it after every sync, and reverting to your Playlist selections in the Handheld Options).  So, you can still add files that way if you want, but they only "last" for one sync.

I'm pretty darn sure it didn't work that way before, though, because I remember having stuff "stuck" and always syncing, even when I did crazy things like building lists that specifically excluded certain files. And I remember figuring out that if I unchecked all of the lists (putting it back into "manual mode") that those errant files were sitting there in the manual queue list.

[RoderickGI]

Yep, I think it is good as well, once you understand what it is doing.

I don't think the drop target, or the send to functionality etc. should be greyed out or disabled though. It is like the Device Options hold the permanently Sync'd items, and the manual processes support the once off Syncs, deleted during the following Sync.

BTW, I see all the Playlists and Smartlists I add using either method under the Device in the left Navigation bar. So it is now easy to see what has been or will be Sync'd, and you can delete the Playlists/Smartlists individually from the Device with a right click. No more orphaned/lost stuff stuck on the Device.

[glynor]

I just tested, and I was actually totally wrong above. Perhaps I've misunderstood the behavior all along! I'm re-writing the Wiki but I probably won't be done until later. But, now that I get it, it is consistent in what it does.

Manually adding files to the sync queue is a one-time operation. The Sync Queue list is not persistent, ever.

When you add files to the Sync Queue manually:

Once you sync them, they are removed from that Sync Queue list forever. If that's all you do, and you have zero Sync List items enabled, then MC doesn't "manage" your device. It just acts as a one-way copy onto the device when you hit sync, and you can delete things by selecting them and deleting them from the device. If you delete them from within MC, then it removes them (obviously), but if you remove them in another program (such as the Finder or Windows Explorer) they stay in that list forever (with status "On Device").

It does not sync them again and again, but they stay in the list as On Device forever.  To get this list to actually match what is really on the device, you have to select it in the Tree, right-click, and choose Rebuild Database.

Once you enable one or more Sync List items:

Then the behavior changes a bit. Now MC manages the device and essentially does the Rebuild Database function for you every time you open the item in the Tree, or click the Recheck Sync button.

In this case, you can still use the the manual list, and it still performs in exactly the same way.

It adds them to the list to be synced to the device one time. If Delete from handheld any files not in the sync list is disabled, then there those files will stay "On Device" forever unless you manually delete them yourself (inside MC or externally). Just like before, they stay forever otherwise, but they do not get "re-synced" if you manually delete them.

But if that Delete from handheld option is enabled, it does exactly what it says.  Remember, I was wrong and the manual list is always non-persistent (one Sync only).  So, if you add stuff manually and click Sync, they'll still be synced over to the device on that sync. But the manual Sync Queue is a one time deal, so the next time, they're no longer in the Sync List. So, then, the next time you Sync, they get removed again (unless you re-add them every time).

[RoderickGI]

Close, but not quite there yet.

Once you enable one or more Sync List items:
If that Delete from handheld option is enabled, the manually sync'd files are still managed. If you add stuff manually and click Sync, they'll still be synced over to the device on that sync, and then they will immediately be marked as "Delete On Sync", so that during the next synchronisation, those files will be deleted. The "Delete On Sync" is persistent even through MC restarts. (Well. Client restarts anyway. I didn't test Server restarts.)

With these settings, manually added files are not accumulated on the Device, and do not need to be manually deleted from the Device.

I actually really like the way that works. Have some regular stuff you want on your Device in a Playlist that is selected for synchronisation, then refresh everything else by Dragging & Dropping files and/or Play/Smartlists to the Synchronisation Action Window (or use other manual methods), and all your previous manually added stuff is deleted. It seems like a great way to regularly turn over the songs on your Device.

[glynor]

Close, but not quite there yet.

Once you enable one or more Sync List items:
If that Delete from handheld option is enabled, the manually sync'd files are still managed. If you add stuff manually and click Sync, they'll still be synced over to the device on that sync, and then they will immediately be marked as "Delete On Sync", so that during the next synchronisation, those files will be deleted.

That's what I said.

So, then, the next time you Sync, they get removed again (unless you re-add them every time).

[RoderickGI]

That's what I said.

Well yeah, but you said;

. . . they're no longer in the Sync List.

So I assumed you meant they were removed because there was a Database Rebuild, or a Recheck Sync function performed. But actually, they stay on the Sync List marked as "Delete On Sync".

I don't think there is a Database Rebuild, or a Recheck Sync function performed if the Delete from Handheld isn't check either. In that case manually Sync'd files are just Sync'd and then forgotten about. Left on the Device.

[RoderickGI]

I should clarify, when I say Sync List I mean the Sync Details display, not the list in the Device Options. Nothing manually added gets added to the Sync List in the Sync Details display.

I just unchecked the Delete from Handheld checkbox and the files I had marked as "Delete On Sync" immediately changed to "On Device".

Synchronising a few files manually saw them added to the Device as "On Device". So they are still visibly managed.

Re-checking the Delete from Handheld checkbox gave me a warning; "Caution - - All files not in he current sync list will be deleted from the handheld." So I guess MC does consider the Device Options list to be the Sync List. Anyway, once I OK the warning, all the manually added files are marked "Delete On Sync", and are indeed deleted.

I think the terminology could be improved and made a little more consistent.
The Sync List should be what's displayed on the Sync Detail display. As that is the full list of what will be done on the next Sync.
The list of Playlists etc. in the Device Sync Options could be called . . . the Sync Options List?

[macdonjh]

RoderickGI & Glynor:

You guys have gone WAY over my head, so I'm going to have to take quite a bit of time to cipher through what you've posted.  Thank you for so much information.

There's a bit of information I didn't post before and after my experiments this afternoon I think it's important.  My library is all .wav files, and I have been syncing .wav files. 

I also discovered that I had a playlist named "Road Music", the same and the smart list I use for daily music.  So when I synced I got both the fixed playlist "Road Music" and the refreshed smartlist "Road Music".  No wonder I kept seeing the same songs on my PAD day after day.  The play list has been deleted.

RoderickGI, I tried your experiment of syncing a standard smartlist.  I used "Handheld 2GB shuffled".  I think I had some success.  I think I had better success when I invoked the option to convert from .wav to FLAC on sync.  I think when I try to refresh the songs on my PAD, likely tomorrow after work, I'll have good success now that the "Road Music" playlist has been deleted (so I won't see those same 100 songs again), and I'm converting to FLAC during sync (so there's sufficient metadata for MC to figure out what's on the PAD and what's new.

[RoderickGI]

RoderickGI & Glynor:

You guys have gone WAY over my head, . . .

We can fill a page or two can't we?!

Transcoding files adds another layer of complexity. I wasn't avoiding it, but didn't need it for my tests. I don't think using WAV files would be a problem in terms of managing the synchronisations as I am pretty sure it just uses filenames (or maybe database record numbers from MC?), but it would mean you didn't have much in the way of metadata on your Device.

At least you have made some progress by deleting that Playlist. 

[glynor]

I should clarify, when I say Sync List I mean the Sync Details display

That's not what I meant, and that's not what they mean in the options panel when they say Sync List.  They mean, literally, the list of files that will be synced. This isn't actually shown anywhere (not alone) in MC. It is:
* All items contained within the Handheld Options dialog's Items to Sync section.
* Any files manually added to the device's queue

The Sync Details View shows the combination of the Sync List and the files already on the device.  Because those files are not in the Sync List, and the option is literally called Delete from handheld any files not in the sync list, they are (of course) deleted when you run the sync.

[RoderickGI]

Ah well, we are just down to semantics now. I think there have been changes made to the handheld synchronisation functionality, but there haven't been matching changes to at least one of the settings names, and the screen labels/text. That deletion check box should read;
"Delete from handheld any files not included via selected Playlists, Smartlists, and other settings to the right under the heading 'Check any that should be included in your sync', or which have been manually added to the Sync List since the last synchronisation."
That is a bit long winded though. 

If you think about file/directory/disk synchronisation programs, they include all the actions of Add, Delete, Update, and Leave alone because there have been no changes. Their Sync Lists are everything that is in one place, and needs to also exist in another place, as defined by their settings.

Obviously anything in the Synchronisation Queue is in the Sync List.
But I would argue that anything that has to be deleted is also part of the Sync List. Those files are currently on the Device.
Or anything that has changed (Date Modified has changed) is also part of the Sync List.  Those files are also currently on the Device.
Then as Modifications need to be considered, all files that are already on the Device, and are therefore marked as "On Device", are also part of the Sync List, as their Date Modified must be checked against the current version MC has.

So basically, for me when using  file/directory/disk synchronisation programs, I consider anything that is touched by the synchronisation as part of the Sync List, and that is shown in the Sync Details display.

Anyway I know more about how the functionality works now, and as long as you update the Wiki so that others will understand, that is fine. 

[glynor]

"Delete from handheld any files not included via selected Playlists, Smartlists, and other settings to the right under the heading 'Check any that should be included in your sync', or which have been manually added to the Sync List since the last synchronisation."

No. The files you manually added are only added for one single sync. That's the thing I didn't get, and I'm not sure if you get it now. By default, MC doesn't really ever "sync" anything to the device. It just copies them over (a bit fancier because it can convert on the fly).  But it is a one-time-only, and unless you tell it to delete files, a one-way-only operation.

The Sync List is defined as a specific "thing" in Media Center. It uses the term consistently, even if we don't. It is the list of changes it is going to make to the device. Assuming you haven't told Media Center to delete any files, this consists only of the "sum" of the two ways you can add files to your device (manually or via lists).  And, every time you click Sync, the Sync List is erased (it starts blank every time).

The Sync List (proper) does not include files already on your device. It is just the list of changes. Full stop.

You can see and manage the files already on the device by going and looking at the Handheld's View in the Tree (clicking the Details link in the Action Window takes you there too). But that view isn't the same thing as the Sync List (it includes the Sync List items, and all the stuff already there). I'm calling this the Device View now, I guess.

By default, MC never updates existing files, and never removes them automatically. This is always true unless you:
* Enable one or more "items to sync" in the Handheld Device Options dialog, and...
* Check one or both of Resync if Date Modified has changed or Delete from handheld any files not in sync list.

So, the way manually adding files works is:

1. When you add a file manually to the device, MC adds that file to the Sync List.
2. When you then click Sync, the file is copied over to the device and then that item is removed from the Sync List.  It is a one-time operation, then they're not on the Sync List anymore.

Those files are now on the device, though, so they show up in the details View (I'm calling this the Sync Queue View now). If you've enabled Delete from handheld any files not in sync list, then those files will be removed on the next sync, because... As I said in #2 above, the second they're actually copied over to the device, they're no longer on the Sync List.

The Sync List is always blank at the end of a sync because it is the list of things it is going to "do" not a list of files. Once it is done, it clears the list.

Then, if you did select some Playlists to sync, and you click the Recheck Sync button (or close and open the device's View) it re-populates a new Sync List.

I actually don't think any of this is new, but we'd need Matt to confirm. It actually explains some confusion I've long-had with the system.  But I've now, tonight, tested it extremely thoroughly.  That's, for sure, how it works now anyway.

I think it works perfectly well, if you get what it is going to do conceptually. I was just hung up on the fact that adding files to it was like adding them to a Playlist.  It is, but as soon as you click Sync, that playlist is blown away.

[glynor]

I spent some time and updated a bunch of stuff here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_Handheld

It should be more clear now. It isn't perfect. Not all of the options, especially conversion options, are adequately explained on the Options sub-article, but it is better.

[RoderickGI]

Well, we both agree on how it works. What it does. You call it Tomato, I call it Tomato, but it still tastes the same. 

I'll read through your Wiki article again later. My brain is fried from other stuff now.

[macdonjh]

Thanks, guys.  I'm going to start with posts from a couple of weeks ago and start working my way through.  I hope to get this figured out.

If a track is added to a Smartlist, and that Smartlist is synced to a device, is the "last played" tag updated to the date the track was synced to a device?

[macdonjh]

Nov 14:
1: Bring Mac out of Sleep mode, MC21 starts automatically.
2: Connect handheld, it appears as a connected device in the Tree
3: From the Drives & Devices view in the Tree, approximately 100 songs appear in the Device View as "In Queue" and a couple of hundred other songs appear as "On Device"
4: Switching to the Action Window: Details, approximately 100 songs appear as "In Queue" and another 200 songs appear as "On Device"
5: Checking Options I have the following checked: "Enable Artwork", "Delete from Handheld...", "Convert to FLAC (always)", and I have chosen a single Smartlist (5GB of random songs with 4- or 5-star ratings) checked to Sync.
6: I right-clicked on the Device in the Tree, then clicked Sync "button" in the banner (or is it a ribbon) at the top of the screen and the sync started.
7: Sync completed: now I see, in the Device View, about 100 new songs "In Queue", a bunch of songs from the list that were on the device before I synced that are still listed as "On Device", and a bunch that are listed as "Delete On Sync", but lots of those songs to be deleted shouldn't be shown anyway because they were removed manually a couple of days ago.
8: I Eject my handheld using the "button" in the ribbon at the top of the screen.  The handheld automatically scanned its internal library and I have 212 songs stored in the handheld.  I should only have about 100.  Looking through the contents I recognize several that have been on the device all week that I thought should have been deleted.
9: I reconnected my handheld and looked at the Device View by clicking on its name in the Drives & Devices Tree item.  There is a list of approximately 100 new songs to sync, a couple hundred listed as On Device, and none listed as Delete On Sync.
10: Sync completed, handheld disconnected and internal library rescanned, I have 300 songs on the handheld.  I think I'm only supposed to have 100.

That's not what I expected to happen given the options I think I enabled.  I guess I'll have to check my operation with much smaller Smartlists, kind of like what RoderickGI did a couple of weeks ago.  But if it works with a list of two songs, why isn't it doing what I want with a list of 100?

[glynor]

It does not sync them again and again, but they stay in the list as On Device forever.  To get this list to actually match what is really on the device, you have to select it in the Tree, right-click, and choose Rebuild Database.

If you remove files from the device externally from MC, you have to do this step to get it back "in sync". Otherwise, it will leave the "orphaned" On Device files in the list forever.

That doesn't actually mean they're really there on disk on the device. Only ones listed as In Queue are ever actually transferred to the device.

[macdonjh]

Rebuild database is the step I was missing.  I knew you had suggested that before, but I couldn't find it in your earlier posts early Saturday morning.  I'll try again.

What am I selecting in the Tree?  The device?  The Smartlist I synced to the Device?

[glynor]

What am I selecting in the Tree?  The device?

Yep.  The device under Drives & Devices.  Right-click > Rebuild Database.  There's probably other ways to do it in the menus, but that's the one I found.

[macdonjh]

I don't see it.

Drives & Devices
   Iriver AK Jr
      Audio - Road Music

If I right click Drives & Devices I get no choices popping up.

If I right click Iriver AK Jr I get these choices: Play, Add to Playing Now, Sync Now, Options..., Show in Finder, Remove & Ignore Device, Rename, Info Dump, Eject, Customize View

If I right click Audio - Road Music (the Smartlist I sync), I get these choices: Play, Add to Playing Now, Sync Now, Options..., Delete Playlist, Info Dump, Eject, Customize View

[glynor]

If I right click Iriver AK Jr I get these choices: Play, Add to Playing Now, Sync Now, Options..., Show in Finder, Remove & Ignore Device, Rename, Info Dump, Eject, Customize View

Let me double-check the Mac version. I have it on Windows:


It could also be due to how it syncs with that particular device. Does the device mount as a volume in OSX (in the Finder), or does it use some other "sync" mechanism?

[glynor]

No, it works on OSX:

[macdonjh]

I think my Mac recognizes it as an external drive.  I do not see, in the Tree under Drives & Devices, any choice for iTunes or Test Device like what your screen shots are showing.  When my DAP is connected, I get the Tree I showed earlier:

Drives & Devices
   iRiver AK Jr
      Audio - Road Music

That's it, and that's all.  The external CD drive doesn't even show up.  Is there something I can do in Device settings to change the way MC21 "sees" my DAP?

[RoderickGI]

It is a little strange that you don't see the "Rebuild Database" option.

I thought it may have been because MC didn't think it had already sync'd to the device, so didn't have a database to rebuild. But you have sync'd successfully. It just didn't do exactly what you want. So there should be a database.

Out of interest, does your "Iriver AK Jr" device have a USB symbol to the left of it, like Glynor's?

Regardless, what I suggest you do to understand what is going on is to create a new device and point it to a new empty folder on a local drive. Then sync some files to the new device. Watch how that works, and then see if the "Rebuild Database" appears for that device. If the option doesn't appear for a new, local folder device, we know something is wrong with your installation.

If the option does appear for the new device, then something is wrong with your "Iriver AK Jr" device, or its installation. If so you could try redetecting the device in right click/Options menu. If that doesn't work you may need to delete all files off the "Iriver AK Jr", redetect it, and then run a new sync and see if things improve.

PS: Recognising the "Iriver AK Jr" as an external drive, or any drive or folder, is fine. The "iTunes" and "Test Device" you see in Glynor's images are just the names he has given his devices. You won't see them. I would have thought MC would see your external CD drive, if it was powered up and active, and visible in Finder.

[macdonjh]

Thanks for your continued help, RoderickGI.

I'm trying your suggestions in reverse.  I've used Finder to delete all songs and Smartlists from the AK Jr.  I ejected the device and then reconnected it.  I went to the Manage Devices menu in Tools -> Options and executed the Redetect All Devices.  I then re-entered all the old settings: Delete existing files not on the sync list, Convert files to FLAC when sync-ing, Enable cover art, Sync the Smartlist called Audio - Road Music.

I performed one sync and the device has 105 songs on it.  I ejected the device, and disconnected it.  It updated its internal data base. 

Then reconnected it.  MC21 detected the device and it appeared in the Tree.  It does have a USB icon to the left of the device name in the Tree.  When I went to Drives & Devices in the Tree and left clicked on the iRiver AK Jr (/Volumes/AK Jr/) (I don't think it was called that yesterday before I redetected it) I found a new batch of songs listed as In Queue and the previous batch of songs listed as On Device.  No songs were listed as Delete On Sync. 

I then right clicked the device name in the Tree and was shown the same list of options that I listed in last night's post above.  No option to Rebuild Database.

I synced anyway so now I have three or four days worth of music... 

I'll see if I an learn how to make a new folder and try your other suggestion.  I'm new to Macs, a longtime PC user.  Things are different in the Apple world.

[JimH]

Split Things are different in the Apple World