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[bob]

We'll check the file conversion issue.

MC does not try to autodetect the capabilities of the renderer. (sinkprotocolinfo). You can do a search for that in the forums if you are interested in why.

Making the iso work could be as simple as tweaking the mimetype. Right now it's probably getting audio/x-sacd
I'm wondering if audio/x-dsf would work?

[AndrewFG]

We'll check the file conversion issue.
I'm wondering if audio/x-dsf would work?

bob, I don't own any SACD disks of files, so I cannot check this: but if you can point me (PM) towards a test file then I would be happy to do so...

[bob]

bob, I don't own any SACD disks of files, so I cannot check this: but if you can point me (PM) towards a test file then I would be happy to do so...

Thanks! I'm uploading a test to where you can get it.
I'll PM you when it's done.

[bob]

According to a thread I read on ComputerAudiophile, the 103/105 used to be able to play SACD iso's but it was removed from current firmware releases.
I don't know what we'll get if we push an unconverted sacd iso track to the OPPO even after changing the mimetype.
I'll make a test version for you Andrew and you can let us know.
Thanks.

[oldzorki]

Gentlemen, thank you again for all your help on this matter.
At the moment I found a workaround by using freeware command-line utility sacd_extract and extracting separate files in DSF format. While not the most convenient approach, it will work and produces sound, undistinguished from original SACD -which at the end all what counts.

[bob]

Verified that the conversion is broken.
Other bin/cue conversion to dsf work so it must be something with naming specifically when dealing with isos. It's on the fix list.

[greynolds]

Is there a thread that explains how SACD ISO's work with JRiver?  Do they need to be mounted with something like VCD like Bluray and DVD ISO's do or does JRiver support them directly?  I just purchased a PS3 that's setup to rip my SACD's and am debating whether I should extract the individual tracks or just go with the ISO's...

[JimH]

The wiki has a topic on SACD.

[oldzorki]

I wonder if anyone find out what is really streaming out of JRiver when source is SACD ISO file -DSF or somthing else.

[AndrewFG]

I wonder if anyone find out what is really streaming out of JRiver when source is SACD ISO file -DSF or somthing else.

Bob and I did some tests...

When MC is pushing DSF or DFF the - well - that is what it is pushing;and the Oppo can play it.
When MC is pushing SACD then it is pushing something that the Oppo cannot play.

[oldzorki]

Bob and I did some tests...

When MC is pushing DSF or DFF the - well - that is what it is pushing;and the Oppo can play it.
When MC is pushing SACD then it is pushing something that the Oppo cannot play.

Thank you, not unexpected. I will wait until SACD-R->DSF bug will be fixed, as for some disks sacd_extract does not work - yet JRiver plays them well (converted). BTW, when coverting from SACD to DCF (when functions properly) - is it just splitting information or it does via intermediate DSD->PCM->DSD conversion? I could not find an info on this matter.

[bob]

Thank you, not unexpected. I will wait until SACD-R->DSF bug will be fixed, as for some disks sacd_extract does not work - yet JRiver plays them well (converted). BTW, when coverting from SACD to DCF (when functions properly) - is it just splitting information or it does via intermediate DSD->PCM->DSD conversion? I could not find an info on this matter.

I don't know for sure but I think it's just something do do with the header info when it splits.
It will be fixed in the next build.

[oldzorki]

I don't know for sure but I think it's just something do do with the header info when it splits.
It will be fixed in the next build.

I found this information in abother thread

Any conversion in MC has to go through PCM at this point, the architecture doesn't support anything else right now.

This may be the case, as conversion now (it works in 19.0.120, I just verified it) takes way too long for a simple split.
I have to audition dsf created by sacd_extract (split for sure) and JRiver to see if there are any differences in sound quality intoduced by DSD->PCM->DSD process in JRiver. It also means that conversion to FLAC 24/176 may yeld better results (no extra conversion step).
Will report my subjective findings later.

[AndrewFG]

I found this information in abother threadThis may be the case, as conversion now (it works in 19.0.120, I just verified it) takes way too long for a simple split.
I have to audition dsf created by sacd_extract (split for sure) and JRiver to see if there are any differences in sound quality intoduced by DSD->PCM->DSD process in JRiver. It also means that conversion to FLAC 24/176 may yeld better results (no extra conversion step).

When pushing to a UPnP / DLNA renderer the only allowed options are a) send original format, b) convert to MP3, c) convert to LPCM. So for the case of SACD playing to the Oppo, the following applies:

• bob is referring to option a) because a split of SACD -> DSF can probably still be considered to be "original format"
• if you are talking of a conversion SACD -> PCM -> DSD this would not count as "original format"
• if you would select option c) that would also be an allowed one step conversion SACD -> PCM
• and there is no allowed option for conversion SACD -> FLAC

[greynolds]

^ I got the impression that oldzorki was talking about file conversion in the general sense (as in Library Tools -> Convert Format), not specifically DLNA.  It would definitely be nice if JRiver would add a Convert Format option that could extract individual DSF tracks from a SACD ISO without an intermediate conversion to PCM, but that should really be discussed in a different thread as this one is about DLNA streaming.

[oldzorki]

When pushing to a UPnP / DLNA renderer the only allowed options are a) send original format, b) convert to MP3, c) convert to LPCM. So for the case of SACD playing to the Oppo, the following applies:

• bob is referring to option a) because a split of SACD -> DSF can probably still be considered to be "original format"
• if you are talking of a conversion SACD -> PCM -> DSD this would not count as "original format"
• if you would select option c) that would also be an allowed one step conversion SACD -> PCM
• and there is no allowed option for conversion SACD -> FLAC

Thank you, Andrew. So you are saying that Hendrik  is wrong and there no PCM conversion happening when SACD ISO is "split" by JRiver? You cannot both be correct. Or perhaps I simply misunderstood you.
I also just converted SACD track to FLAC with JRiver. It coverts to 24/352.8 FLAC (called DXD I think), which I am not sure is directly playable on OPPO BDP-105 (only some very high-end DACs support such resolution, but I will test). I have not find an option to reduce sample rate, but I guess I can downsample later with other tools.
When using DLNA, JRiver converts SACD while streaming to 24/196 PCM with no problems.

[oldzorki]

^ I got the impression that oldzorki was talking about file conversion in the general sense (as in Library Tools -> Convert Format), not specifically DLNA.  It would definitely be nice if JRiver would add a Convert Format option that could extract individual DSF tracks from a SACD ISO without an intermediate conversion to PCM, but that should really be discussed in a different thread as this one is about DLNA streaming.

Thank you, you are absolutely correct. Just discussion was here about SACD-R conversion (and errors), so I continue to write here.
It is upo to moderators to move this part of the discussion to a different thread.

[AndrewFG]

Thank you, Andrew. So you are saying that Hendrik  is wrong and there no PCM conversion happening when SACD ISO is "split" by JRiver? You cannot both be correct. Or perhaps I simply misunderstood you.

You misunderstood me.

[oldzorki]

You misunderstood me.

I understood it when I reread your message, my apologies. You are talking about streaming and converting while playing via DLNA, I was talking about lobrary conversion tool.
Sorry again for a confusion.

[margolbe]

I have an Oppo BDP-105.  I would like to stream DSD to OPPO BDP-105 using J River.

Could someone please outline the specific settings I need on JRiver and on the oppo player in order to do this?  All my files are stored on a Synology NAS.

[Wadeh911]

^

Can you please be specific about what kind of track are you trying to play? Is it DSD, DSF, DFF or something else?

It must be me.  Using jriver and JRemote I'm Able to stream DSD multichannel files in DFF format no problem to my oppo 105.  No luck yet streaming with DSF format.  Copied both formats to USB thumb drive, plugged into oppo, both DSD formats played perfectly.  JRiver media center version 19.0.138.  My reading of this thread says this has been corrected in my version.  What am I missing?  Thanks for your help from a very happy jriver customer.

[AndrewFG]

^

As far as I can tell, the Oppo can only play DFF files via UPnP push (even though it can apparently also play DSF files locally).
This looks like a simple limitation in the Oppo player, so I don't think there is anything that MC could do to "solve" it..

[Wadeh911]

^

As far as I can tell, the Oppo can only play DFF files via UPnP push (even though it can apparently also play DSF files locally).
This looks like a simple limitation in the Oppo player, so I don't think there is anything that MC could do to "solve" it..

Thanks Andrew.

[Wadeh911]

^

As far as I can tell, the Oppo can only play DFF files via UPnP push (even though it can apparently also play DSF files locally).
This looks like a simple limitation in the Oppo player, so I don't think there is anything that MC could do to "solve" it..

Just when I was about to give up on streaming DFF files to my 105 I tried to push via jriver.....and it worked.  Next I cleared the now playing and selected the file on my iPad with JRemote and that now streams and plays the DFF file. All that is changed is the I restarted my PC tonight and restarted jriver.  No reason I can see for this to begin working suddenly.  Maybe it needed a push.....  Hoping someone else can duplicate my success.

[AndrewFG]

^

I don't understand. I thought your problem was with DSF not DFF...

[Wadeh911]

^

I don't understand. I thought your problem was with DSF not DFF...

Auto spellcheck did me in several times. Sorry for the confusion. From the top the problem was inability to stream DSF files.  Just checked nine different DSD multichannel albums, some in DFF and others in DSF and all now playing correctly.  Other than restarting my PC, no setting changes were made. But that is impossible as something must have changed I am unaware of.

I have to laugh at myself to keep from cracking up.  This hobby is driving me nuts but it sure is fun.

Thanks for your patience with me.  Best of all I can confirm jriver streams dsd64 multichannel files in both formats. Happy day.  Haaaapppy day.

[AudioBear]

I know this is an old thread, but im going to ask here anyhow and please excuse the remedial question.

When referencing "streaming" in this thread does it mean connected via USB synchronous input to Oppo BDP105, Wireless connection or via wired network connection?

Thank You for the clarification.

Shane

[Hilton]

This >> Wireless connection or via wired network connection

[AudioBear]

This >> Wireless connection or via wired network connection

Thank You!
 
And a follow up question:
Is their any benefit/drawback with wireless/wired network connection vs USB audio input?

[blgentry]

^ USB is fairly "normal" in the way that JRiver talks to the device.  It's (mostly) a dedicated connection.  So it doesn't suffer (as much) from contention issues like network connections can.  It's wired, so it's definitely more reliable and less "suspect" than a wireless connection.

There are complexities involved in making a network connected DAC play everything as one might expect it to.  DLNA is not equivalent to a wired USB connection to a DAC.  I can't speak to the Oppo in particular.  I'm speaking in general terms.  USB is better in most circumstances, due to what I've listed so far and other factors.

Brian.

[AudioBear]

^ USB is fairly "normal" in the way that JRiver talks to the device.  It's (mostly) a dedicated connection.  So it doesn't suffer (as much) from contention issues like network connections can.  It's wired, so it's definitely more reliable and less "suspect" than a wireless connection.

There are complexities involved in making a network connected DAC play everything as one might expect it to.  DLNA is not equivalent to a wired USB connection to a DAC.  I can't speak to the Oppo in particular.  I'm speaking in general terms.  USB is better in most circumstances, due to what I've listed so far and other factors.

Brian.

Thank you Brian!
Very much appreciated.

[AudioBear]

Yet another remedial question:

With my pc connected to the Oppo BDP105D via Asynchronous USB Audio port playing the demo multichannel track downloaded from Oppo's website I am only getting sound from the L&R speakers.  I thought I had read somewhere that this connection bypasses the Oppo's decoding and All processing is done by the PC, is this accurate?  I played around with the settings a bit but have not had any success producing multichannel music.

Should I connect the pc to a different USB port(if so which port) or via Ethernet?

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You
Shane

[greynolds]

Yet another remedial question:

With my pc connected to the Oppo BDP105D via Asynchronous USB Audio port playing the demo multichannel track downloaded from Oppo's website I am only getting sound from the L&R speakers.  I thought I had read somewhere that this connection bypasses the Oppo's decoding and All processing is done by the PC, is this accurate?  I played around with the settings a bit but have not had any success producing multichannel music.

Should I connect the pc to a different USB port(if so which port) or via Ethernet?

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

The Oppo BDP-105 / BDP-105D only support 2 channel audio via the USB DAC input, so multichannel audio will need to be sent via HDMI, DLNA, network shares, or from a locally attached USB drive.

[dtc]

^ USB is fairly "normal" in the way that JRiver talks to the device.  It's (mostly) a dedicated connection.  So it doesn't suffer (as much) from contention issues like network connections can.  It's wired, so it's definitely more reliable and less "suspect" than a wireless connection.

There are complexities involved in making a network connected DAC play everything as one might expect it to.  DLNA is not equivalent to a wired USB connection to a DAC.  I can't speak to the Oppo in particular.  I'm speaking in general terms.  USB is better in most circumstances, due to what I've listed so far and other factors.

Brian.

Brian - FYI and as a follow-up to my playing from memory comment. Many of the same people who believe playing from memory reduces noise in a PC which effects the DAC, feel that a network connection, especially wireless, also isolates the PC from the DAC. Those people will argue that a wireless connection is better than a USB connection. Unfortunately, the protocols for wireless connections, including DNLA, are not as reliably implemented as USB, as this discussion shows.

[AudioBear]

Brian - FYI and as a follow-up to my playing from memory comment. Many of the same people who believe playing from memory reduces noise in a PC which effects the DAC, feel that a network connection, especially wireless, also isolates the PC from the DAC. Those people will argue that a wireless connection is better than a USB connection. Unfortunately, the protocols for wireless connections, including DNLA, are not as reliably implemented as USB, as this discussion shows.

Good points, Thank You.