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[nick77]

Hi all

New to the forum. I've been using JRiver in its trial version for a few weeks, and I'm likely to purchase any day now. However I have a rather odd issue which has arisen today which I really want to get sorted before parting with my cash.

My basic setup is:

Windows 10
Latest version of JRiver (reinstalled today)
Geforce GTX 750ti gfx card with dual hdmi connection to....
Panasonic plasma TV and Marantz AV Receiver

I am concerned this maybe a fault with my gfx card which I only bought a week or so back. Everything worked fine before on the integrated HD4000 I was running, although I wasn't then running through the AV receiver.

Anyway, the issue I have is that playback seems to be fine for films playing from mkv made from handbrake (DVD or Bluray sourced). But when I try to play back some 576i files the gamma just goes crazy! Red goes green and it's just completely unwatchable. This happens whether it is in full screen or in the little display window. Weird thing is, if I play back the original dvd file albeit in an mkv container, it is fine. And even more puzzling, occasionally the files DO play properly! It doesn't seem to matter whether the auto refresh change is on or off.

Anyone seen anything like this before? Tried googling but not getting very far!
I'm wondering if it's a fault in the hardware decoder...

Many thanks
Nick

[JimH]

Welcome to the forum. 

Please try both Red October Standard and HQ in video settings.

Also try toggling hardware acceleration.

[nick77]

Thanks for the welcome 
I've tried all the permutations you mention and it seems the issue is with Red October HQ. Playback appears fine with standard. Turning hardware acceleration off makes no difference in either standard or HQ mode.
I really want to use HQ mode as my system is easily capable (and was working fine before my gfx upgrade)
I tried updating to tge latest driver for card but no effect
Any tips?

Thanks
Nick

[JimH]

HQ uses madVR.  Have you changed any settings in madVR?  We don't recommend doing that, but you could get help with madVR on the doom9 forum.

If it works in RO STD, and not in RO HQ, then it's probably not a driver problem.

[nick77]

To the best if my knowledge I haven't changed any of the MadVR settings. Are they located anywhere easy to find? If so I can have a look and see if the screen looks familiar!
Othereise I've realised that using a custom config lets me use HQ and then the haali renderer which seems to work pretty well. I might decide to stick with that.

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated

Nick

[RoderickGI]

You can access the MadVR settings when running ROHQ, then on a playing or paused video, right click on the image, select "DirectShow Filters", then "madVR".

I haven't seen video output where red went green and so on since I used CRTs and had bad cables, where a poor connection meant one or more colours just dropped out occasionally. Very strange for it to be happening with MadVR.

If you haven't made changes to MadVR, then maybe you should just get MC to reload MadVR. I believe that you can just delete the MadVR directory (or perhaps just rename or move it, just in case) and MC will download MadVR again and set it up, next time you try to play a video using ROHQ. The MadVR directory is at;
C:\Users\[UserID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr

If interested, you can view the DirectShow Graph information by right clicking a playing or paused video, select "DirectShow Filters", then "Copy graph info to clipboard". Paste the result into Notepad or something and have a look at what you have.

If reloading MadVR doesn't fix the problem, then over to the doom9 forums and see if anyone is having problems with the Geforce GTX 750ti. They shouldn't be, since it is a commonly recommended card and lots of people use it for HTPC systems.

[nick77]

Many thanks for the help.
I renamed the madvr folder. When I tried to play a file it downloaded the plugin again. Worked OK forbthe furst file I tried, then failed with the second.
To be honest I think I'll stick with haali as it actually (to my eyes) seems to do a better job with interlaced material. Not sure about progressive though. Is there a condition command I can use to only use haali for interlaced material? I can't seem to find any details of what condition commands are supported.

Thabks
Nick

[RoderickGI]

Sorry I don't know what conditional commands are available.

As the first file played okay, directly after the download of MadVR, it is possible that something would be recorded in MC logs. If you created a log of the first file working (play a short file or play then stop) and the second file failing, then posted the log zip file here, maybe someone who knows how to read them may take a look. Generally JRiver staff prefer a user to wait to be asked for a log by one of them though, so that is just a maybe.

The basic method for creating a log is described here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52448.0
It is for sending logs to the TV developer, but you will get the idea.

But the doom9 forums may still be the better path to follow. At least you have the Haali video renderer to fall back on.

Interlaced files can cause a bunch of grief though, particularly if the are film played as video, or video played as film. One of those two.

BTW, if your video is now passing through your AV receiver from your Geforce GTX 750ti, you should really try playing the bad video directly to the TV and see if the problem occurs. It may be your receiver that is the problem.

[nick77]

Hi
Thanks for the tips. I'll try to have another look this evening. The 750ti is actually dual connected to the av receiver and the tv directly (so I can have one port on my TV configured for video playback and 1 for general PC usage. I've tried both the passthrough and the direct to TV but the results are the same.
On further playing earlier this morning I noticed the haali renderer is not actually as good as I initially thought. Seems quite jumpy at times. However I experimented with another renderer (can't remember which) that seemed to produce more pleasing results.

Thanks all for the support and suggestions.

Nick

[nick77]

Just to update on this, it was the legacy renderer that I used, and to my eyes it seems significantly better at processing interlaced material than madvr was. For this reason I'm going to stick with it. However I'm still interested if anyone knows how to use the conditions to tell JRiver to only use the kegacy renderer for interlaced material.

Thanks
Nick

[RoderickGI]

I think you would get a lot of help with using madVR to play interlaced media on the doom9 forum. It can't hurt to have a look.

The 750ti is such a good card. It seems a shame not to use it to the fullest. MadVR does that. But the settings are crucial.

[nick77]

OK thanks.
I'll try to take a look when I get a chance.

Oh and I bought JRiver the other day so you may well see more of me on here as I play around with it!

Nick

[nick77]

Hi everyone

Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I feel it is the best thing to do since this post is a direct continuation.
I've been playing around with madvr a bit recently, having come to the conclusion that I was a bit hasty to believe the legacy renderer was superior!
I believe I have established what is causing the issue.

When I convert my files to mkv using handbrake, I use the option to strip out any black areas. This has resulted in some of my files being a non-standard resolution. My Blu-ray player and other renderers do not seem to have an issue with this, but it appears madvr does.

So for example, a PAL interlaced file which is 698x576 has issues with the colour, whereas one at 696 or 700 doesn't. It seems that unless the first value is a multiple of 4 it creates an issue.
I tried an NTSC 24p file with a resolution on 708 and one of 710 and they both played fine, which means it's either a PAL resolution issue, or a frame rate issue (my guess is the former)
Now I don't know if it is possible to pass this information onto the developers in the hope that it is a quick fix, or should I go to the time and effort of converting all my files again!

Thanks
Nick

[RoderickGI]

Some time has passed, and things have changed.

So before you do anything else, if you haven't already, get the latest firmware and drivers for your GTX 750ti, and the latest version of MC, MC21.0.76, which has improved versions of LAV and madVR.

I have lots of odd-ball video resolution MKV files, one of which is 958x720, so doesn't meet the "divide by 4" rule. It plays fine.

If you have done the above and the problem persists, come back and tell us about your current Video Option settings. Mine are in the image.

[nick77]

Thank you for your reply.
I have checked and I am running the latest version MC21.0.76 (it updates automatically as I bought it late last year).
My graphics card (GTA 750ti) now has the latest drivers, as I just installed them, but unfortunately no change. I have searched but cannot find any references to a firmware update for this card.

Just to reiterate, I too have video files with odd resolutions, but this only seems to affect specifically PAL files which are ***x576, and then only certain values for the ***
It could be the fact they are interlaced, but I am unsure.

I have checked, and yes my settings are the same as yours, and I have in fact delved much deeper into the settings of madvr in order to try and resolve the issue, but after numerous attempts confess to being a bit stuck.
Not sure if it's of any relevance, but the issue is evident on the preview window in the bottom left, as well as full screen.

I've added an attachment which should illustrate the extent of the problem!

Also of note, if I pause the issue remains but if I seek using the seek bar, the colour comes back until you unpause.

Help!!!!

[nick77]

Just to add, I have tried all of these resolutions, and get the following results:

Fine

720x576, 716x576, 700x576, 696x576

All of below have an issue

718x576, 698x576, 694,576, 690x576

All are mkv encoded using handbrake, from PAL DVDs, and have the tff=1 flag in the encode as they are interlaced.

Thanks
Nick

[CountryBumkin]

Hi Nick,
I'm not much good at this stuff - but I'm wondering why are you using handbrake?
Can you just rip your movie (movie only) directly with MakeMKV?

Maybe the handbrake conversion is causing the problem.

I'm in USA (so no PAL) but I just rip all my DVDs and BDs directly with makeMKV, or I use CloneBD with AnyDVD HD running.

[nick77]

It's a fair question, but given the size of my collection (around 500 DVDs and 250+ Blurays) I simply don't have the storage capacity to hold everything uncompressed.
I use MakeMKV in the first instance, and then convert using an 18 quality for DVD and 20 for Bluray. Happy with the quality of the results and save a considerable amount of space (e.g. most Bluray movies go from around 25GB to 7GB.)

I would say I'd try to see straight ripped files to see if there's a difference, but as non-converted files will always be 720x576 in PAL world, the "odd" resolution issue will be impossible to replicate

Thanks

[RoderickGI]

It is a strange issue, that is for sure. The sample you provided looks exactly like an old CRT with a bent pin in the cable.    Is the colour cast always green?

When I said firmware, I should have said firmware/BIOS. I know some manufacturers provide BIOS updates for there NVidia cards, and there is a thriving video BIOS tweaking community and toolset. You haven't said which brand of video card you have, or the exact model (memory size varies within the GTX 750 Ti range, for example).

I am in Australia, so have lots of PAL format files, but I don't have any MKV files in PAL format, let alone ones with odd resolutions. So can't test you issue exactly.

Does it always happen to the same files? Even after reboots of the PC? Are there files that match the criteria for failure above, but still work okay?

If the answers to that are Yes, Yes, Yes, then I suspect it is a problem with the ripping and re-encoding you do. Since you are re-encoding anyway, could you redo one of the bad files and force it to re-encode at 720x***. Does that still fail? Can you re-encode one to 720p (Progressive) and see if it fails?

Also, if the answer to the first question was Yes, could you make a small file that has the problem, and upload it somewhere for some of us to test? That may at least confirm it is a problem with the file encoding or not. If not, you may need to start looking at your TV colour management, the graphics card a bit more, or something else specific to your setup.

It still could be madVR having a specific issue with the re-encoded files though. As mentioned above, if that is the problem, the Doom9 forums will provide better support, and maybe even a fix. The latest MC has madVR v0.90.16 included, and that version had a bit of Gamma work in it, and now has monitor calibration, and Color & gamma settings. Have you checked those out? They may be new since you first looked at madVR. (Not sure.)

It could also be the LAV Direct Show filters, based on some reading I have done at the Doom9 forum.

[RD James]

Hit CTRL+J when a video is playing to display the stats and upload a screenshot including them.
It could be a colorspace issue.

[nick77]

Hi

Going to be a bit busy today (attending a wedding) so will go through the detailed replies later. However, I did have chance to do the quick ctrl+j screen grab, which I have attached here.

Many thanks

[RD James]

Colorspace looks fine. Does the image look right if you replace SuperXBR chroma with Lanczos?

[nick77]

RD James - No difference.
I have tried many combinations of the advanced settings to no avail. I too was thinking the chroma upscaler may have been the issue.
Attachment provided.
 
Thanks
Nick

[Hendrik]

The videos in question are using DXVA deinterlacing, which in practice means that any GPU video processing is active. I would go into the GPUs control panel and check any video and color settings if they aren't set to something weird somewhere.
For nVIDIA in particular in the NVIDIA Control Panel, Video -> Video Color settings, make sure its set to "With the video player settings" and/or all the color settings are neutral.

MC also has its own color control, during playback in the Player -> Playback -> Color Controls options, but those should hopefully also just be all neutral.

It would seem rather odd if a particular resolution would trigger the problem.
I don't suppose its possible to share one of the affected files, maybe partially? A small clip which shows the wrong colors would be plenty. You can cut them with mkvmerge, for example.

[nick77]

Hendrik, you've helped me find a "solution" by accident!
The NVidia Control Panel was as it should be.
All colour controls in MC were set to zero. However, I thought I would try experimenting with the gamma setting to see if I could get a good balance.
Would you believe that by just changing the zero to a 1, the gamma has miraculously corrected itself!
I imagine (hope!) that a difference of 1 is not really going to affect the balance too much (unless someone disagrees?)
It certainly looks fine to my eyes.

I suppose the question is though, where is the bug, in my hardware or in the software?

Big breakthrough though, thanks!

[Hendrik]

Sounds bizzare. Maybe you installed a "broken" color profile for your display which gets used now somehow?

[nick77]

Sounds bizzare. Maybe you installed a "broken" color profile for your display which gets used now somehow?

Agreed, very bizarre! I even tried flicking back and forth between 0 and 1 a few times just to make sure it wasn't a one off.
However all is still good. All my files (various resolutions/refresh rates) now seem to work fine.
Unless anything changes, I'll consider my issue finally solved!