Topic: Using JRiver to clean up & re-export library (Read 14931 times)

PhilR · « **on:** January 11, 2016, 10:09:46 am »

Apologies if this is basic stuff, I did a quick search and didn't find a suitable answer.

I just spent a bit of time using my newly installed JRiver to clean up my old iTunes music library that is spread across two drives. Added lots of cover art and also consolidated many albums that had been split up into single tracks using the Album Artist function. The files are all AIFF, FLAC, and MP4.

I now want to take these upgraded files and load them onto a dedicated Aurender music server that runs its own software for playback. When I made all of the changes to my music, is it done at the library level and the original music files are untouched, or things like artwork and genre changes I made re-embeded into the original files? What is the best way to get my newly cleaned up collection loaded onto my new toy?

Thanks!

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2016, 12:40:41 pm »

MC has a tool called Rename, Move, Copy. If the Aurender can be seen as a drive, that should work. See the wiki for details.

And welcome to the forum.

blgentry · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2016, 03:12:57 pm »

Quote from: PhilR on January 11, 2016, 10:09:46 am

I now want to take these upgraded files and load them onto a dedicated Aurender music server that runs its own software for playback. When I made all of the changes to my music, is it done at the library level and the original music files are untouched, or things like artwork and genre changes I made re-embeded into the original files?

By default, MC should be writing all of the tag changes back to the files. Not all file types support all tags, but most of them should be there including the major ones like Artist, Album, Genre, etc. Double check your MC setting for this to be sure:

Tools > Options > General > Importing & Tagging > Update tags when file info changes > (checked)

Quote

What is the best way to get my newly cleaned up collection loaded onto my new toy?

Good question. Jim's recommendation is a good one. The Rename, Move, and Copy tool can copy all of your files (or a selection) to another location and use rules for what directories to put them in. Things like Artist/Album/SongName for example.

However, the RM&C tool has a limitation of NOT showing status while it does it's copies. You'll see a small indicator in the footer that says "X remaining" or something like that, but nothing that tells you detailed status. For this reason, on big copies like this, I prefer to do one of two things:

A. Use a dedicated file copying tool to do the copy. I like rsync because it's very sophisticated, is included with OSX, does incremental copies, and it runs from the command line. I like command line because I'm very familiar with it. If you're not, you should look somewhere else, as rsync isn't a very friendly tool for first time command line users.
B. MC includes a HandHeld sync tool. This is designed to copy music (and/or video) files to a portable player. It can be set up to point to a path on your disk. This could be the external disk used by your Aurender. You can tell it what files to sync, via playlist, or just make a single smartlist that contains everything. Handheld sync shows detailed status as it runs, and seems to work as you'd expect. If you have complex directory structures they may be lost in this copying process though: The originals will be untouched, but you won't get the same directory structure on the destination disk.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync

No matter what you choose to do, I would start by playing with a few files, or maybe a couple of albums. Get the techniques down and then apply it to a larger set.

Good luck!

Brian.

PhilR · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2016, 09:30:37 am »

Thanks guys. Will give a progress update in a few days.

PhilR · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2016, 01:03:07 am »

I'm running into a challenge using JRiver when trying to edit tags on MP4A files. Everything works great with AIFF and WAV copied CDs when changing genre types and adding album artwork. The changes stick to the JRiver library AND original music files.

However, MP4A tag changes bring up the "Media Center encountered errors while tagging and moving files. Check that the files exist, are not read-only, and are not in use by other programs" error. Whatever genre changes and artwork I add to these files "sticks" in JRiver library, but they are NOT changed in the original files. I want the new tag changes to stick to the original files so I can export all of them back into my music server.

I have changed the permissions for the entire music folder the library is pulling from, and think I have set up JRiver correctly with the "Update tags when file info changes" checked on in the import and tag settings. Anything else I might be missing?

Thanks again!

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2016, 01:06:52 am »

Are the files or a parent folder read only?

What is the source of the files? I'm familiar with mp4 and m4a files, but not with mp4a.

Arindelle · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2016, 04:12:43 am »

Quote from: PhilR on January 16, 2016, 01:03:07 am

I'm running into a challenge using JRiver when trying to edit tags on MP4A files.

hi

I ran into this a couple of times back in the day, getting out of the itunes universe. MP4a extention is just, if memory serves, a quicktime native audio file.

Renaming it seemed to work. I think I changed the extension from MP4a to mp4 (euh or maybe it was M4a??? don't remember) So copy the file to test first so you don't mess up an original. Provided that there are no DRM issues of course.

PhilR · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2016, 09:59:52 am »

My mistake, they are M4A files.

I placed all of my music files (about 1T) into one folder and made sure all of the read/write permissions were granted to all users throughout all files within the folder. That folder was then used to create the JRiver library.

blgentry · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2016, 10:55:38 am »

Are these problematic files on a local disk? Or NAS?

If they aren't local, I would be inclined to move a few of them (perhaps one full album) to a local drive and then test again. In fact, I'd do the move with the Rename, Move, and Copy tool. That way it's transparent to MC. Then try updating the tags in those files: <right click on files> Library Tools > Update tags (from library) .

This all smells like a permissions issue, but you've said it isn't, so this is the only thing I can think of... so far. Good luck.

Brian.

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2016, 12:22:54 pm »

Are you using 21.0.31 from the top of this board?

PhilR · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2016, 01:09:31 pm »

I am using 21.21.0.24 that I downloaded & purchased last week.

All of the files the library is pulling from are on a local portable hard drive.

blgentry · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2016, 04:43:22 pm »

Portable hard drive... hmmm...

What format is the drive? NTFS? HFS+? Are you certain you can write to the drive? Can you use an external tagging program to change one of the files?

Brian.

PhilR · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2016, 06:29:31 pm »

The help is really appreciated

I just bought the drive for the music transfer, formatted it to Mac OS Extended (Journaled) which I believe is HFS+. I then transferred all of the music files I want on my server to this drive, so yes it can be written to.

I downloaded a demo version of a Mac tag editor, and it does change the genre information on the original music files on this hard drive.

blgentry · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2016, 07:09:05 pm »

Wow, that's really strange. I don't have any M4A files any more, but the ones I used to play with had no issues reading and writing tags.

I wonder if there's something in these files that's either non-standard, or something MC can't deal with. Can you post a sample file on dropbox or google drive or something and link it here? If you do, I'll import it into my library and test.

Brian.

PhilR · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2016, 11:18:58 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on January 16, 2016, 07:09:05 pm

Wow, that's really strange. I don't have any M4A files any more, but the ones I used to play with had no issues reading and writing tags.

I wonder if there's something in these files that's either non-standard, or something MC can't deal with. Can you post a sample file on dropbox or google drive or something and link it here? If you do, I'll import it into my library and test.

Brian.

Thanks, here's a sample for you:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozdnumxh4rwf47s/Rolling%20Stones%2CThe%20-%20Brown%20Sugar.m4a?dl=0

Arindelle · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2016, 02:42:16 am »

you are right. I can't play this file in JRiver either directly. I can convert it to mp3 and it will play. (not a good idea as conversion from a lossy format to another will suffer "generational" loss of some artifacts.) Even VLC won't play them back (without Quicktime installed)

It will play if you rename the file extension to mp4, however (better than converting as there will be no degrading of artifacts that way).

Seeing this outdated (since version 16 article) in the WIKI https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/MP4_and_M4A_File_Support this format won't support tagging. Changing the file extension to mp4, JRiver still won't write a tag to the file either, for info.

Not sure this still works but if you have Quicktime installed on your computer, it might work from within JRiver. I'm not going to test this for you though, sorry --- don't want quicktime or itunes on my machine!

I guess I'd copy all these files and bulk rename them to mp4 with an external tool. Then reimport (archive the original files just in case). Better yet replace them with FLAC files -- Sticky Fingers merits having a lossless copy in your collection, if your budget permits! I wouldn't copnvert them, as I mentioned though.

If you must buy, or are converting to, lossy formats, I'd really recommend sticking to non-proprietary formats in the future.

blgentry · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2016, 09:12:53 am »

Ok, I've downloaded the file and played with it. Here's what I've found:

1. This is an ALAC file. Apples Lossless Compression. It plays, as is, without changing the file extension or anything else.
2. MC can not write tags to it by default. It fails just as reported.
3. It has "extended attributes" attached to it in the file system. I thought these were the problem so I removed them with xattr (command line), but that didn't help.
4. KID3 (a free open source tagger) can read *and* write tags to the file without issue. The file size changes by a very small amount once KID3 has written to it.
5. Once KID3 has written to the file, MC can write to it too!

Even doing something like writing a comment to the file will work. KID3 can update an entire directory of files at once. The big caution here though, is if you update the tags with an external tagger, and MC has "update for external changes" turned on, it will get ALL the tags from the files and potentially overwrite the tags in your library. So you'd want to turn that off. It's at:

Tools > Options > Library & Folders > configure auto import > tasks > update for external changes

I just tested this workflow and it worked for me.

It's strange that MC can't write to this file "as is". Maybe a developer will look at the file and figure something out.

Brian.

PhilR · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2016, 10:03:36 am »

Many thanks guys!

I have all of my library ripped to AIFF, these M4A files were recently "inherited" from a used server I purchased. There is a lot of good stuff in there and it is lossless, so it makes sense for me to take some time and make them work.

Would it be better to use an alternate tagging program like KID3 to make my genre changes and add artwork when needed, or use a program to bulk convert all of the M4A files to AIFF and then re-import back into JRiver? I really like JRiver's tag editing and album artwork power.

blgentry · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2016, 10:24:38 am »

As far as I can tell all you'd need to do is write to the files once with KID3. You could try this on some files you haven't imported into MC yet. Get them all in the same directory tree. Open them in KID3. Use KID3 to select them all. Selecting the folders isn't enough. You need to select all of the files too. Write a comment tag and save it. Watch KID3 work while doing the saves. When it's done, you should be able to import these files into MC and write new tags to them.

Of course this is based on only one file you supplied, but it seems like it should work.

Brian.

Arindelle · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2016, 01:01:12 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on January 17, 2016, 09:12:53 am

Ok, I've downloaded the file and played with it. Here's what I've found:

1. This is an ALAC file. Apples Lossless Compression. It plays, as is, without changing the file extension or anything else.

Brian.

oops my bad brian is right they are ALAC files but i does NOT play for me (I do not have Quicktime installed btw - Win system)

question though, Brian .. if they are lossless, then why not just convert all to flac, no gen loss, no metadata constraints, and just tag in JRiver? Why go to the hassle of an external tagging program? There is something peculiar about the file though, as they will play when renamed. I wouldn't want to depend on them personally.

blgentry · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2016, 04:24:06 pm »

Quote from: Arindelle on January 17, 2016, 01:01:12 pm

question though, Brian .. if they are lossless, then why not just convert all to flac, no gen loss, no metadata constraints, and just tag in JRiver?

That's one option. I don't know how many files the OP has like this and how long that might take. But it's an option.

Quote

Why go to the hassle of an external tagging program?

Because the external program makes the files writable by MC. It only takes a tiny bit of time per file to write to them with KID3, which changes *something* inside of the file that then makes them writable by MC.

Quote

There is something peculiar about the file though, as they will play when renamed. I wouldn't want to depend on them personally.

They play fine on my system. <shrug> Not sure why.

Brian.

PhilR · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2016, 12:17:32 pm »

I like the idea of simply getting rid of anything iTunes related in my music server.

I tried to use dbamp to bulk convert the 5000+ M4A files to AIFF overnight. Took about 6 hours, and at the end of the process there were only about 200 that converted error-free. Not sure if trying to convert to FLAC instead would yield better results, but I can try that tonight. I will also try the solution that blgentry came up with, doing a minor bulk edit with KID3 to all the files and hope this makes them editable by JRiver. .

Many thanks to everyone who jumped in on this to help!

Arindelle · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2016, 12:47:39 pm »

sure no problem Phil. if dbpoweramp's converter has problems I worry about the files themselves though. They have a very good batch converter. ? I'd try a couple of conversions to flac (or alac if you prefer) as AIFF is like WAV which probably explains the reasons it took so long.

I have a tool that checks files for errors and things, but its Win only so thats not much help. Renaming the extension for all the files, is probably more of a PITA.

hope sorting this is not too painful

blgentry · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2016, 01:22:13 pm »

Quote from: Arindelle on January 18, 2016, 12:47:39 pm

Renaming the extension for all the files, is probably more of a PITA.

Just to be clear on this, the file extension is not an issue on my system at all. The file behaves the same whether it's named .m4a or .mp4 . That said, you could bulk rename them all in seconds using the Rename, Move, and Copy tool, using the find and replace section.

Brian.

Arindelle · « **Reply #24 on:** January 18, 2016, 01:44:09 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on January 18, 2016, 01:22:13 pm

Just to be clear on this, the file extension is not an issue on my system at all. The file behaves the same whether it's named .m4a or .mp4 . That said, you could bulk rename them all in seconds using the Rename, Move, and Copy tool, using the find and replace section.

Brian.

ah ok .. not the case for me but I think that s because you are on a MAc and probably have quicktime as part of the OS (or maybe itunes is installed .. just saying, not that it matters much. If they are alac files they should play, there shouldn't be an issue bewteen the OS .. sort of strange

PhilR · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2016, 01:24:17 pm »

I wanted to share my conclusion to this issue and introduce a new one..

Using blgentry's idea, I used a tag editing program to filter for every M4A file and add a simple "PR" comment to them all in bulk. Took about three minutes for many thousand of files. These were then reintroduced into a fresh download of JRiver, and boom, no more issues making genre changes or adding album artwork. It's as if another program needs to unlock these M4A files so JRiver can then edit their metadata back to original files.

I have all of the files that JRiver is using on one external hard drive, spread across several folders. I tried to use blgentry's idea of creating a file that would act as a handheld device to sync everything into a folder that I could then import into my server, but it showed a 50+ hour transfer timeline at 20mbps speed. Instead I just imported the individual folders from the external drive into my server as recommended by Aurender, which worked well. However..

99.9% of the files going into the server have artwork that JRiver shows, but there are still a significant number of album covers missing from the Aurender server. Granted, some of the artwork is carried over from music I had in iTunes which I brought over to JRiver, but those are all shown in JRiver. Here is how Aurender describes its handling of artwork:

When the Aurender searches for album covers, it first searches for the “front.jpg” file. If there is none, then it searches for the “folder,jpg” file. If there is none, then it searches for the album cover in the song metadata.

I configured JRiver to make permanent changes to the music files when both importing and editing metadata & artwork. The genre changes stuck, but some of the artwork didn't. Any ideas? I will probably need to delete all of the files on my server and start fresh (easy enough), but how should I get the album artwork to "stick" in the right spot so my server can read it correctly when reintroduced?

blgentry · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2016, 03:20:44 pm »

Well, I'm glad to hear that my idea for "unlocking" the M4A files worked.

On the album art work, it's hard to say what's going on. Some players have limitations on image type (jpeg vs png for example) or art work size (minimum and maximum sizes). I would suggest that you gather a few examples of songs where album art does not show up on the Aurender, and then look at those files both in the file system and in JRiver to figure out where JRiver things the artwork is stored. It may be that the art work in on disk, but named something funny like "dark side of the moon.jpg". Or you may find something else like file format, or image size is amiss. You might even find that JRiver can't see artwork for some of these files.

Personally, I'm a big fan of embedding the artwork inside the file, as long as the file supports it. FLAC and ALAC both support embedded art. The relevant setting in MC is:

Tools > Options > File Location > Cover Art > also store image in the file's tag > (checked)

If that option isn't currently checked, then you will probably have a good number of files that do NOT have embedded art work. You would need to select those files and then do: Library tools > Update tags (from library) . This will force MC to update all of the tags, including the art work.

In fact, you can make a SmartList in MC to show you every file that does NOT have embedded art work. Here's an import/export definition from the one I use:

Code: [Select]

[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Image File]=[Inside File]
To recap: The real key here is to characterize the problem and figure out what is different about the files that don't show art work on your new server, but DO show artwork in MC.

Good luck!

Brian.

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Author Topic: Using JRiver to clean up & re-export library (Read 14931 times)