Topic: Blu-ray and MKV 3D support [Under Development] (Read 262150 times)

Hilton · « **Reply #300 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:57:28 pm »

Worked out what the issue is with not switching to 3D properly on my system without switching to standard view and back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The theatre view skin I was using! When I switched back to default theatre view skin it switched in and out of 3D without being in FSE mode!!!!!!!!!!

PS. I was using Rapier Fusion theatre view skin. - I also changed standard view back to default skin from black on black, so I'll check if it was standard view or theatre view skin that made the difference. My money is on Theatre view.

jmone · « **Reply #301 on:** February 19, 2016, 09:03:41 pm »

Which Skin are you using? I'm on Obsidian

Hilton · « **Reply #302 on:** February 19, 2016, 09:23:43 pm »

Nup spoke too soon. Must have been an anomaly! Tried switching skins back and forth again and I couldn't get it to work in 3D without pushing the mouse to the top of the screen to get the playback controls to flash up first.

jmone · « **Reply #303 on:** February 19, 2016, 09:28:52 pm »

There must be something we both do that the others don't....

Hilton · « **Reply #304 on:** February 19, 2016, 11:33:06 pm »

Don't know if this helps Madshi pin down the issue, but when I have a windows 10 action center notification pop up in the bottom right corner it also triggers 3D mode.
Discovered this by accident after a reboot and a notification popped up just as I started a 3D movie. IT started in 2D just like every other time before, but once the notification pop up disappeared 3D started working.

So I think it's a screen application focus issue. Something isn't giving video control to madVR until you switch away and back.

jmone · « **Reply #305 on:** February 19, 2016, 11:58:54 pm »

You could be onto something. A simple Alt-Tab also fixes it (you get a 1 x Presentation Glitch, and a few dropped frames but then you are in 3D mode from then on). Future Alt-Tabs are fine and don't cause any issues.

Also - I do notice that I also may need a 3D Lip Sync Option as well but it could be a result of the 2d-3d issue above as I've seen it way out of sync at times when doing this testing in Window Overlay to get 3D but.... one thing at a time I guess.

Hendrik · « **Reply #306 on:** February 20, 2016, 01:43:05 am »

The way I see it, Windows 10 is just borked with 3D. I know why my HTPC stays on 8.1 =p

Regarding 3D A/V sync option, unfortunately MC doesn't know when 3D output is being used. It could possibly ask madVR about this. madshi, is there an info property, say in IMadVRInfo, to tell me if framepacked 3d output is active?

JimH · « **Reply #307 on:** February 20, 2016, 06:11:13 am »

Quote from: jmone on February 19, 2016, 09:28:52 pm

There must be something we both do that the others don't....

You're both Australian.

Hilton · « **Reply #308 on:** February 20, 2016, 06:12:10 am »

Quote from: JimH on February 20, 2016, 06:11:13 am

You're both Australian.

jmone · « **Reply #309 on:** February 20, 2016, 02:35:50 pm »

Thanks why we needed the ability to rotate the video

bhampster · « **Reply #310 on:** February 21, 2016, 05:43:51 am »

Hi,

Since this has worked for me pretty much from the start, I have to decide how this new ability affects my library.

I think I will keep both a 3D and a separate 2D copy of most everything. There are a few 3D titles I own that I don't believe I will bother making a 2D copy of because I don't believe I will ever be interested in watching them in 2D... But I suppose maybe eventually... they just won't be a priority.

Previously when I was using an external program from within MC, I would choose 2D or 3D from a single file..... But I don't want to re-create that option. I would rather treat the 3D as a separate entity.

-Brian

Hendrik · « **Reply #311 on:** February 21, 2016, 06:17:47 am »

Since space is cheap, thats what I do. Rip both 2D and 3D of the Blu-rays. Often there will actually be a second Blu-ray in the same package with a dedicated 2D version on it, which will have a higher 2D bitrate than the 2D part of the 3D version, so I get ever so little higher quality when ripping the proper 2D version.

Planning on buying a new 4K HDR TV this year. Having 3D would be a bonus, but since many 2016 TVs don't actually have 3D support anymore, I would also just give that up when everything else is perfect otherwise.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #312 on:** February 21, 2016, 08:34:27 am »

Quote from: jmone on February 18, 2016, 04:43:22 pm

FYI here is the video from my phone (a bit shaky) showing the 3D Startup. You can hear the audio drops several times as modes are changed. Is this what you get?

Yup I get the same.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #313 on:** February 21, 2016, 08:40:22 am »

Madshi and Hendrik...I watched avatar from the Blu-ray directly last night and have some feedback. Subtitles didn't work for me at all. The first one flashed and then none of them ever came up again. That was weird. Then about an hour and a half in it went into slideshow mode where it just went nuts and looked like a slide show. Stopped playback and restarted it and it was fine after that. Beautiful pq.

Hendrik · « **Reply #314 on:** February 21, 2016, 08:44:37 am »

The subtitles should be fixed in next madVR I think. I had the slideshow as well once though.

rec head · « **Reply #315 on:** February 21, 2016, 09:08:28 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on February 20, 2016, 01:43:05 am

The way I see it, Windows 10 is just borked with 3D. I know why my HTPC stays on 8.1 =p

Regarding 3D A/V sync option, unfortunately MC doesn't know when 3D output is being used. It could possibly ask madVR about this. madshi, is there an info property, say in IMadVRInfo, to tell me if framepacked 3d output is active?

This is not great news. I am on Windows 7 and was planning on doing the W10 upgrade that MS wants me to do sooooo bad to get 3D. Now it looks like I shouldn't.

Hendrik · « **Reply #316 on:** February 21, 2016, 09:42:14 am »

Quote from: rec head on February 21, 2016, 09:08:28 am

This is not great news. I am on Windows 7 and was planning on doing the W10 upgrade that MS wants me to do sooooo bad to get 3D. Now it looks like I shouldn't.

Presumably it also works fine for some, but since my media playback system is dedicated to that particular task, and nothing else, it also doesn't benefit from anything Windows 10 has to offer, so I rather play it safe since its not quite as "proven" yet as 8.1.
I run 10 on my main PC without problems, but its not connected to a 3D TV.

bhampster · « **Reply #317 on:** February 21, 2016, 10:15:34 am »

Quote from: SamuriHL on February 21, 2016, 08:40:22 am

Madshi and Hendrik...I watched avatar from the Blu-ray directly last night and have some feedback. Subtitles didn't work for me at all. The first one flashed and then none of them ever came up again. That was weird. Then about an hour and a half in it went into slideshow mode where it just went nuts and looked like a slide show. Stopped playback and restarted it and it was fine after that. Beautiful pq.

I noticed the subtitle flash with Avatar but using Exclusive mode fixed it.

Also, checking Subtitles Optimized for Performance not Quality may or may not have an effect... perhaps.. .I just don't actually know ... ok ... it's just a wild guess.. whatever.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #318 on:** February 21, 2016, 10:45:21 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on February 21, 2016, 08:44:37 am

The subtitles should be fixed in next madVR I think. I had the slideshow as well once though.

Thanks for the feedback. We'll have to see what's going on with the slideshow thing but it takes a while for it to happen.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #319 on:** February 21, 2016, 10:47:32 am »

Quote from: bhampster on February 21, 2016, 10:15:34 am

I noticed the subtitle flash with Avatar but using Exclusive mode fixed it.

Also, checking Subtitles Optimized for Performance not Quality may or may not have an effect... perhaps.. .I just don't actually know ... ok ... it's just a wild guess.. whatever.

I'm running FSE already. Subtitles did not display at all after the initial quick flash.

rec head · « **Reply #320 on:** February 21, 2016, 11:37:49 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on February 21, 2016, 09:42:14 am

Presumably it also works fine for some, but since my media playback system is dedicated to that particular task, and nothing else, it also doesn't benefit from anything Windows 10 has to offer, so I rather play it safe since its not quite as "proven" yet as 8.1.
I run 10 on my main PC without problems, but its not connected to a 3D TV.

I was going to do an image of my drive before upgrading so maybe I'll just try 10 and if it doesn't work re-install the image then upgrade to 8.1.

GaryM · « **Reply #321 on:** February 21, 2016, 02:31:35 pm »

Quote from: rec head on February 21, 2016, 11:37:49 am

I was going to do an image of my drive before upgrading so maybe I'll just try 10 and if it doesn't work re-install the image then upgrade to 8.1.

I tried Windows 10 back in November and had big problems with the Nvidia driver. Reverted to 7. Now I've just put a new PC together, installed Win 7 and activated, then immediately forced the Windows 10 upgrade choosing to keep nothing (ie lose all settings and apps). I should have a clean Windows 10 by that route I hope. I installed the latest Nvida drivers, installed JR Mediacenter... all working nicely. Will try 3D in due course.

jmone · « **Reply #322 on:** February 21, 2016, 03:01:12 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on February 21, 2016, 09:42:14 am

Presumably it also works fine for some, ....

I guess we will see more reports (one way or another) when it become part of the release cycle. Who know, maybe it is only the Oz version of Windows 10.

Matt · « **Reply #323 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:00:33 pm »

I have a newbie question. How do I get the 3D to engage?

I've got a 3D mkv file that I downloaded a while ago. It's side-by-side, so I can put my projector in a mode where it understands that, but it'd be so much better if the renderer kicked my video card into 3d mode and displayed it that way.

I'm assuming that's what this change can do, but I can't figure it out.

Thanks for any help.

Hendrik · « **Reply #324 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:01:47 pm »

Quote from: Matt on February 21, 2016, 04:00:33 pm

I've got a 3D mkv file that I downloaded a while ago. It's side-by-side

Such kind of files are not supported. Only proper 3D Blu-ray content is, either straight from disc or ripped with MakeMKV.

Matt · « **Reply #325 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:03:41 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on February 21, 2016, 04:01:47 pm

Such kind of files are not supported. Only proper 3D Blu-ray content is, either straight from disc or ripped with MakeMKV.

Is there any hope for some sort of back door?

I've watched the movie (in 3d!) no problem. So it's possible. By the way, it's Avatar.

It's just that I have to flip my projector to understand the side-by-side and it'd be so much neater if that weren't necessary.

madshi · « **Reply #326 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:05:26 pm »

Support for such side-by-side encoded files is planned for a future madVR version.

However, please be aware that you're losing image quality because the Blu-Ray originally had true 1920x1080 pixels per eye, while your file probably only has half that.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #327 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:17:19 pm »

Quote from: madshi on February 21, 2016, 04:05:26 pm

Support for such side-by-side encoded files is planned for a future madVR version.

However, please be aware that you're losing image quality because the Blu-Ray originally had true 1920x1080 pixels per eye, while your file probably only has half that.

Did you get a chance to watch your copy of Avatar on 3D blu-ray over the weekend? Just curious if your experience matches mine at all.

madshi · « **Reply #328 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:21:18 pm »

No. I needed to update my HTPC for that to work, and while trying to do that I might have fried it. Waiting for a new cooler to arrive tomorrow.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #329 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:22:59 pm »

Oh geeze that sucks. Hope you get it up and running quickly. I'm curious if you have the same slide show issue Hendrik and I saw when you watch a full movie. It takes a while to happen, at least for me, but, it just gets to a point where it's done. I'm wondering if there's a memory leak somewhere but since I was watching rather than playing I didn't take the time to diagnose it.

madshi · « **Reply #330 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:35:20 pm »

There's nothing I can say about that because I've zero information. Not even stats from OSD.

Hendrik · « **Reply #331 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:39:51 pm »

Quote from: madshi on February 21, 2016, 04:35:20 pm

There's nothing I can say about that because I've zero information. Not even stats from OSD.

It was in the middle of a movie for me so I didn't really feel like investigating, but it just started dropping frames and the present queue didn't fill anymore. All others were fine IIRC.
Another movie held up through the full thing without issues.

Next time it happens I'll pay more attention.

madshi · « **Reply #332 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:52:47 pm »

Well, when I'm in movie watching mode myself I don't usually analyze why things go wrong, either, so I fully understand it. Present queue being the only one in trouble is interesting. A log would be great, but if the problem only occurs after a long time the log will already have flooded your harddisk twice over...

jmone · « **Reply #333 on:** February 21, 2016, 05:44:26 pm »

Just trying the new madVR/lav release and got another hint on the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode". When I install a new version of madVR, windows10 will ask for my Admin password at first playback time. It then goes into Windowed 3D just fine. The 2nd time a run (no password prompt) it then has the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode" issue.

Also, Subs are correctly rendered depth! I did get some issues with them not working at one point (or just a quick flash) + the Black text rendering that other have reported for OSD and Subs.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #334 on:** February 21, 2016, 05:54:46 pm »

I'll run Avatar tomorrow while I'm working and see if it happens again. If it does, I'll try to at least check the OSD and see what's going on.

Hilton · « **Reply #335 on:** February 22, 2016, 01:14:16 am »

Quote from: jmone on February 21, 2016, 05:44:26 pm

Just trying the new madVR/lav release and got another hint on the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode". When I install a new version of madVR, windows10 will ask for my Admin password at first playback time. It then goes into Windowed 3D just fine. The 2nd time a run (no password prompt) it then has the "starting in 2D when in Windowed mode" issue.

Also, Subs are correctly rendered depth! I did get some issues with them not working at one point (or just a quick flash) + the Black text rendering that other have reported for OSD and Subs.

I just installed madvr 0.90.11 and didn't get prompted for password on playback. My HTPC user account is an admin account however and I also run the madVR install.bat as admin when doing an upgrade.
Don't know if that makes any difference.

jmone · « **Reply #336 on:** February 22, 2016, 03:02:13 am »

Yeah I run my HTPC from the "Guest" account so any changes get UAC prompt.

Hilton · « **Reply #337 on:** February 22, 2016, 04:22:02 am »

I tried a bit of trouble shooting tonight and didn't get anywhere in the end, but I did make an observation.

I did a safe mode DDU driver uninstall for Nvidia and reinstalled after a reboot without the installing the 3dvision controller and driver.

The behaviour was different when starting 3D. MC would jump to 3D SBS mode on playback without the 3dvision driver installed.

As soon as I installed the 3dvision driver the same issues of starting in 2D instead of 3D framepacked mode occurred.

I tried uninstalling MC deleting library and reg settings, rebooting and then reinstalling MC clean and just changing 1 setting to enable ROHQ mode.
Played a video to trigger the LAV and madVR config then closed MC and copied the latest madvr and LAV builds across.
Restarted and tried to play a 3D mkv and the same 2D problem occurred.

So, basically it looks like it's an Nvidia driver problem with my GTX760 3D framepacking switching, because LAV and madVR are detecting and switching to a 3D mode as proven with my initial testing when it turned on 3D SBS when the 3dvision driver wasn't installed. (and with a fresh install of MC with defaults)

Another note. The subtitles now work in 3D but appear to get out of sync.
PS. This is probably a MC21.0.49 bug that's been around a few versions but the Theatre view FPS setting is being ignored. I tried changing it and MC is ignoring the new setting.

Hilton · « **Reply #338 on:** February 22, 2016, 04:35:58 am »

Quote from: Matt on February 21, 2016, 04:00:33 pm

I have a newbie question. How do I get the 3D to engage?

I've got a 3D mkv file that I downloaded a while ago. It's side-by-side, so I can put my projector in a mode where it understands that, but it'd be so much better if the renderer kicked my video card into 3d mode and displayed it that way.

I'm assuming that's what this change can do, but I can't figure it out.

Thanks for any help.

BTW Matt,

SBS and all other 3D modes other than Framepacking don't usually have a method to notify the display that its 3D SBS, top/bottom or interleaved. So you'll have to switch manually to 3D.
Framepacked 3D is the only 3D mode that officially supports detection in most display devices.

Hendrik · « **Reply #339 on:** February 22, 2016, 06:27:29 am »

Quote from: Hilton on February 22, 2016, 04:22:02 am

Another note. The subtitles now work in 3D but appear to get out of sync

I noticed that on some longer testing as well, it'll probably require changes in MCs subtitle rendering to use a more appropriate subtitle rendering API with madVR. Its been a long term TODO task, but never really had any good reason to really do it.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #340 on:** February 22, 2016, 07:11:24 am »

Quote from: Hilton on February 22, 2016, 04:35:58 am

BTW Matt,

SBS and all other 3D modes other than Framepacking don't usually have a method to notify the display that its 3D SBS, top/bottom or interleaved. So you'll have to switch manually to 3D.
Framepacked 3D is the only 3D mode that officially supports detection in most display devices.

When you buy a 3D Blu-ray movie, does it include the "framepacked" and "SBS methods" - or is it just one type or the other?
How can you tell which one it uses (MediInfo?)

Hendrik · « **Reply #341 on:** February 22, 2016, 07:15:29 am »

Quote from: CountryBumkin on February 22, 2016, 07:11:24 am

When you buy a 3D Blu-ray movie, does it include the "framepacked" and "SBS methods" - or is it just one type or the other?
How can you tell which one it uses (MediInfo?)

Blu-rays are always the same. The only source of SBS movies is the internet.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #342 on:** February 22, 2016, 07:22:34 am »

I'm running Avatar again in the background to see if I can repro the slideshow issue from this weekend. Using 0.9.12 and latest LAV nightly. Hoping the subtitles show up, as well. Will report back in a couple hours.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #343 on:** February 22, 2016, 08:03:43 am »

Still not getting any subs. Is there something in MC I need to mess with to get them to show up? Cause I get none at all.

DarkSpace · « **Reply #344 on:** February 22, 2016, 08:43:13 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on February 22, 2016, 07:15:29 am

The only source of SBS movies is the internet.

Just for the record, I've got one DVD that contains some game trailers, and one of those is available in 2D and 3D both. The 3D version is stored as side-by-side, too.
It's 30 fps, though, so if I understood correctly, even if I could tell madVR to interpret the image data as 3D, I wouldn't be able to output it directly (I seem to remember that madVR only outputs frame-packed 3D at 24 Hz, and I don't have a 3D-TV to verify that myself).

SamuriHL · « **Reply #345 on:** February 22, 2016, 09:36:00 am »

Hendrik, something is wrong with subtitles. On Avatar, if I select the second english sub track, which should be the Navi language only forced subs, I get zero subs showing up. If I select the first english sub track that contains subs for everything, then they display properly. Any ideas on what could be happening?

SamuriHL · « **Reply #346 on:** February 22, 2016, 11:26:35 am »

Ok, I got the slideshow situation going on right now. The queues are full. Dropped frames are incrementing very fast. Up to 3k+ so far. Repeated frames are at 2700 and increasing. Rendering time is 47ms and increasing up to 56ms. Present is 0.12 ms. I'm 1:10 into the movie when it happened this time. CPU usage from task man shows MC at ~40% with about 680 megs used. Now sure what other info I can provide that'd be even remotely helpful.

UPDATE: Paused to take a full reading of the OSD for you

display: 23.97
composition rate: 23.97
clock deviation: 0.00073%
smooth motion off
d3d11 exclusive(3d)
NV12 8 bit 4:2:0 (3d)
movie 23.976fps
1 frame drop every 3.22 minutes
movie 1920x1080 16:9
draw 0,0,1920,1080
touch window from inside
chroma > super-xbr
vsync 41.72ms, frame 41.71ms
matrix BT.709 (best guess)
primaries BT.709 (best guess)
limited range (best guess)
deinterlacing off (says upstream)
decoder queue 45-45 /16
upload queue 8-8/8
render queue 8-8/8
present queue 1-1/8
dropped frames 7493
repeated frames 7665
delayed frames 0
presentation glitches 137 (from moving in and out of FSE most likely)
average stats
rendering 20.72 ms
present 0.12ms
max stats (5s)
rendering 0.0 ms
present 0.25 ms

Rendering times went down cause I paused it to read this out.

Update 2: Ooook. Leaving it paused that long apparently did something cause when I hit play it started playing normal again. Well that's odd cause it didn't do that the other night unless I didn't pause long enough.

madshi · « **Reply #347 on:** February 22, 2016, 12:36:06 pm »

Hmmmm... How can the render queue be full if the render time is 47-56ms? Sounds quite weird...

SamuriHL · « **Reply #348 on:** February 22, 2016, 12:37:08 pm »

That's a GREAT question isn't it? LOL. It made NO sense to me at all.

madshi · « **Reply #349 on:** February 22, 2016, 12:40:18 pm »

Maybe I should extend the logging solution in such a way that it overwrites old data, so that we can log "forever" and then simply stop playback when the problem occurs.

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Author Topic: Blu-ray and MKV 3D support [Under Development] (Read 262150 times)