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[cochinada]

Hello everyone!

I'm going to try JRiver before I decide if I like it or not and at this time I'm still ripping my CD collection. For the time being I'm just interested in music and not movies but I have a few questions.

I've been storing my CD's in a folder structure organized by Artist/Group name but split in letters to make it easier to look for a particular artist as this:

D:/Music/A....Z/Artist/album(s)

On each folder I have the respective thumbnail named as 'folder.jpg' and all the tracks separated as FLAC files. The exception is for a double or CD box where I create a folder with the name of the Album/box and sub folders, CD1 to CDn. Inside of each I have the same thumbnail.
All files have the tags 'Title', 'Artist', 'Album', 'Year', 'Track', 'Genre' and Cover' previously filled with Mp3tag.

My questions are:

- Is this structure OK or is there a better way to prepare it?
- Do I need to create a CUE sheet for each CD or is this not necessary for JRiver?
- Does JRiver automatically recognises the thumbnail with this name or...?
- Can I keep my tags and still fetch additional information like reviews and so on or does JRiver overwrites them all when doing some kind of search in its database? I'm asking this because some times some CD's are not in the database and I have entered all the tags manually already.

Thanks in advance!

[Arindelle]

My questions are:

- Is this structure OK or is there a better way to prepare it?

JRiver will accept just about any directory "structure" you want to use. One of the most important things about JRiver is how powerful its library database is and what you can do with the metadata (tags), most of the time the directory structure you use is not important. Consistency is though. My friend uses an alphabet on top of the artist folder and I've been trying to warn him against doing this ... but there are people here that even break things down by genres, file types etc. Basically its your choice, but the big transition to make for most people  IMO is not using old school physical files to find or playback anything. Its the tags (metadata) that controls everything. FLAC as a lossless file container has the most to offer for embedding meta data ... followed closely by ALAC.

This is ok if you have 200 cds, but not 5000. What you do want to do, though is keep the full file path reasonably short. Using directories that correspond to tagging fields will also allow you to rebuild everything if a catastrophe happens.

I recommend this to my friends and family which is pretty close to what you are doing (there are a lot of reasons behind this, but not everyone would be in agreement about the multiple cds - some put each cd as a separate album folder) :

z:\[Album Artist]
       [Album]
             [Disc No. if multiple album or box set]
                         tracks + album art + maybe pdf files or other "art"

You should have a separate folder for compilations, soundtracks etc to keep(I use [2-Various Artists])
I also have a separate folder for Classical [1-Classical] as these are by Composer and not by Album Artist; I also have a "Various Composer directory under neath this (there are a LOT of opinions on classical music, how to tag etc. you can search the forum on this).

If you actually have to find the physical files in windows this way jut type the first 2 or 3 letters and in win explorer you quickly get close to what you are looking for.  If you alphabetize you have to first open that folder. And if you have a problem with your ripping mask or template you could in error put the album under  the wrong letter.

- Do I need to create a CUE sheet for each CD or is this not necessary for JRiver?

No they are not necessary. Personally, I don't like CUE sheets. They can cause problems, especially when ripping one large file and using the cue sheet to split on playback. I never use them and where I had them, I got rid of them. JRiver has lots of different gap settings including gapless so, again my opinion, CUE sheets don't bring anything to the table. However, CUE sheets are supported if you don't agree with me.

- Does JRiver automatically recognises the thumbnail with this name or...?

not sure what you mean maybe ...
there is an option to use folder.jpg this is what I have always done-- see Options file location cover art. Some people use cover.jpg some even retag it wit the album name. There is also on option to put  cover art for all of the albums in one folder. I don't like this personally, and if you are interested in using JRemote, this is not a good idea -- but it is possible. JR like most players, uses embedded artwork. So actually you don't even need the cover art on your hard drives (there can be reasons to have them though.) Most ripping programs will embed the art during the rip itself. Should the album art not be embedded in the file for some reason, JRiver offers a bunch of tools to either get it from the web or, add it from your art within the album folder. You can do this in batches so its not full automatic, but almost

- Can I keep my tags and still fetch additional information like reviews and so on or does JRiver overwrites them all when doing some kind of search in its database? I'm asking this because some times some CD's are not in the database and I have entered all the tags manually already.

Yes of course ... JRiver won't overwrite anything unless you ask it too. However, you can't just add to the tags for specific fields automatically (there is a tool "Lookup Track info form online database" - it will replace whatever metadata that it has, so this could indeed overwrite your tags, there is a warning and you can't just do it by mistake ... I never use this personally.)

Tagging in JRiver is very powerful. I recheck or retag all of my music via JRiver now. COmbined with custom admin views you can set up, you can copy paste what ever you want from the web. Set up "links" that do automatic searches of online database etc (like ALLmusic, Discogs etc.) JRiver allows virtually unlimited extended tag information. You can save this to the files themselves (or not). MP3 tag can't. But in fairness it was developped for lossy files which couldn't handle a lot of these extended fields.

Thanks in advance!

sure welcome and happy listening 

[MikeO]

Hi arindelle has said most of it.

I run rock and classical separate as well.much the same structure as him.

When you start adding tags ,consider for classical a custom tag BoxSet and DiscName that way you can set up a classical box set view for quicker navigation. I have approx 1500 classical  cd but probably
80 % are boxes

I find myself navigating rock by artist, classical by composer.

Mike

[~OHM~]

RE: Structure

I used to use the genre folders but after a while found it difficult to navigate. How I choose to organize my structure is ONE folder called (Music) in side that main folder (Music) is  the name of the artist inside that folder is the name of the qualifying CD's.... Shawn Phillips (artist) inside Shawn Phillips would lie his albums- 1971 Second Contribution and so on....inside of Second Contribution would lie track 01 and so on...along with any info, the jpg and possibly pdf or just plain notpad notes. I came to find it was much easier to navigate inside windows. As Arindelle said JR really could care less about your file structure as long as tags are good.

Now I chose to keep the artist under first name then sir name as I moved from WMP and that was how WMP structured back then and I just found it easier with all the changes I was going to face with JR. It also eliminated the comma and 2 spaces for file name count.

I also discovered by placing the year BEFORE the name of cd kept them in order of release.

Inside the (Music) folder along with the artists are two additional folders one called -Soundtracks, this folder houses soundtracks listed by the name of the movie followed by the year, much easier to find this way. The second folder -Various Artists is just that. It follows the (Music) folder structure. It also can contain named folders for say like (History of Rock) and it would include all the volumes I have of that particular set. The - before these two folders just makes is easier for me to find when navigating with windows and does not change its alphabetical order in the structure.

Of Course I do not use any () marks in my structure.

At the End of the Day YOU ARE GOD and can choose to structure your files in a way that works best for you!

Enjoy JR It is truly the best!

Here at Interact you will find the best people on the web to help you as you learn the true power of MC

[cochinada]

Thank you very much for all the help. I really appreciate it a lot  

I will follow your suggestions and get rid of my Alphabetic letters. I have also a 'various artists' folder and lots of classical music CD's but these I'm leaving for last as they are not yet ripped.

If CUE sheets are not needed than I also personally don't find them necessary and better yet, this will save me time on the ripping process as well.

[kstuart]

Hmm - for some reason, your thread title did not much attract many readers (maybe the word CUE).

IF your concept is to use JRiver MediaCenter permanently, then all your CD rips can be in one folder.  (But for maintenance, it helps a lot to have a separate folder for each album.)

JRiver MC uses its internal database to keep track of all the properties of your files.  This occurs from looking up the information during the ripping process (or if you import rips that already have the information stored in "tags").

IF you rip to individual tracks, then you would only need CUE sheets for burning audio CD copies of the albums.

[cochinada]

Hi everyone!

I have some minor questions.

... You should have a separate folder for compilations, soundtracks etc to keep(I use [2-Various Artists])

I understand how this would make things much easier with Windows navigation but not quite sure how to take advantage with JRiver. Is it possible for instance to sort the albums by Artist AND at the same time by soundtrack? How does this work together?

... Yes of course ... JRiver won't overwrite anything unless you ask it too. However, you can't just add to the tags for specific fields automatically (there is a tool "Lookup Track info form online database" - it will replace whatever metadata that it has, so this could indeed overwrite your tags, there is a warning and you can't just do it by mistake ... I never use this personally.)

So, if I understood correctly this means that if I want to keep my tags I cannot use this option "Lookup Track info form online database" and have more information, like reviews, etc. Am I right?

... I also discovered by placing the year BEFORE the name of cd kept them in order of release.

But isn't possible to tell JRiver to sort the albums by Artist/Year instead of Artist/Album?

... Of Course I do not use any () marks in my structure.

Why? Is this a problem with JRiver?

Thanks in advance!

[~OHM~]

Quote from: TAO1857 on January 27, 2016, 07:08:16 am

... I also discovered by placing the year BEFORE the name of cd kept them in order of release.
But isn't possible to tell JRiver to sort the albums by Artist/Year instead of Artist/Album?

this was looking at it from windows navigation ....JRiver can sort any way you want

Quote from: TAO1857 on January 27, 2016, 07:08:16 am

... Of Course I do not use any () marks in my structure.
Why? Is this a problem with JRiver?

I have no idea if it's a problem or not! I don't like the look and I am God!

[ferday]

So, if I understood correctly this means that if I want to keep my tags I cannot use this option "Lookup Track info form online database" and have more information, like reviews, etc. Am I right?

Why? Is this a problem with JRiver?

Thanks in advance!

At the moment, if you use the "lookup track info..." it will change ALL the tags.  there are a few of us petitioning to allow for us to choose which tags it changes, but for now don't use it if you're happy with your tags

any character like () that is ok with windows folder names is ok in JRiver.  if it's not ok in windows, you can still sometimes use it in JRiver and it will just show up as a _ in the windows structure later.  of course, a few like \ / don't work in a folder name at all

MC can sort any way you want, and even more sometimes.  it's quite powerful that way.  however i still think it's good maintenance practice to have some sort of decent disk structure, at least a folder per album...

i'm against .cue sheets now, JRiver (and most other modern players) don't need them and they can cause problems.  i've deleted all of mine with no ill effects

[Arindelle]

I understand how this would make things much easier with Windows navigation but not quite sure how to take advantage with JRiver.

You are totally right in that JRiver or any other good player for that matter should be using the metadata (tags) and not the physical files for selection for playback. Its just a question of consistency. When you set up a mask (or template) for ripping with JRiver or an external ripper ... Album Artist/Album/Tracks (+ optionally artwork) is a pretty standard way setting it up ... JRiver has tool to rebuid tags based on filename and path structure or in the other way, rename files based on tags. As every other album would have a distinct Album Artist, often people use Multiple Artists or Various Artist as the tag in the [album artist] field ... so being consistent you can use one of your choosing. As KStuart noted above,   you can just plop everything in together if you really want to . as long as the Album Artist and Artist are tagged ... Bear in mind that JRiver combines album artist and album (or Album Artist (Auto) -- see the Wiki for more on this  https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Album_Artist_and_Album_Artist_(Auto)) -- a compilation without the same Album Artist will be split up In most Views. You do want to avoid, in my opionion, legnthy path structures that aren't needed though ... like added genres and things ... these make no sense as that defeats the purpose of databasing your collection and can lead to problems with lengthy filesnames (especially for classical music).

Is it possible for instance to sort the albums by Artist AND at the same time by soundtrack? How does this work together?

If your View is based on Artist and not album artist, sure you can do this... let's say the soundtrack or compilation has 3 out of 12 songs by one artist. If the top category for your view is on the Artist you can choose the name of the artist and just those three songs will come up. grouped together under the album name. If the View is based on using [Album Artist] the entire sound track will come up incorporating the three songs. You could I suppose sort within the album by Artist rather than track #, but thats pretty strange -- your choice though, its possible.

Soundtracks, unlike compilations are a little dogdy though sometimes ... eg. for Easy Rider ... no problem its a Multiple Artist album ... but for Titanic is it James Horner as the Album Artist or is it multiple artist because Celine Dion sings the theme song ... well thats your choice (I use James Horner as the Album Artist, and Celine Dion as a Soloist .. but hey thats just my opinion). Generally I think though you want to keep the album grouped together, yet being able to separate out the individual artist using different views -- why you use Multiple, Various or Assorted or some such as the Album Artist (your choice, just, again,  be consistent). The more you have detailed tagging the more options you have of filtering and sorting. You can have  genres and sub-genres .. and have multiple attributions of a genre or sub-genre to the same album

So, if I understood correctly this means that if I want to keep my tags I cannot use this option "Lookup Track info form online database" and have more information, like reviews, etc. Am I right?

basically yes. At present you can not append tag info. However there are many ways to create links to outside databases to automate searches and just copy/paste what you want in. I use Allmusic and Discogs personally. You can look up the tags and do an "undo" if you want -- the data base used doesn't have a lot of "extended" tagging info and has a lot of inaccuracies for me .. but I'm a real geek about tagging.

But isn't possible to tell JRiver to sort the albums by Artist/Year instead of Artist/Album?

as Tao said, you can sort just about anyway you can think of provided that your tag data that you want to sort or filter by is entered.  The only thing to be aware of is choosing to sort by complete albums (using Album Artist or Album Artist (Auto) and just Artist as alluded to above

Why? Is this a problem with JRiver?

you can put parentheses and brackets in if you want, but there are indeed characters that Windows doesn't accept in folder names like a colon, ?, slashes etc. ... if it is acceptable by windows or the OS you are using JRiver will accept it.

happy listening

[cochinada]

Thank you.  

as Tao said, you can sort just about anyway you can think of provided that your tag data that you want to sort or filter by is entered.  The only thing to be aware of is choosing to sort by complete albums (using Album Artist or Album Artist (Auto) and just Artist as alluded to above

I was wondering about that. I now have a lot of classical CDs ripped and I organized them by Composer and a folder called 'various composers'.

Does it work if I setup JRiver to sort by 'Composer' as 1st choice, then by 'Album Artist' as 2nd and finally by 'Artist' as 3rd? I mean for other genre, there is no Composer but only Artist and in some cases Album Artist. I decided to leave this tag blank except for compilations so, because of the blank tags, I would expect this sort scheme to show first all my classical albums, then all other genre except compilations and finally compilations. Is this reasoning correct or perhaps is the other way around?

There is another possible problem with Classical CDs that even if my reasoning above is correct could show unpredictable results: many CD's have various composers and for these the 'common' factor usually is the Artist but for some not even this is true as it is not uncommon to have different orchestras and even maestros on the same CD. How on Earth should we deal with this?

[Arindelle]

You can do everything you listed, you can "drill down" from Composer to Genre to style before you get to album in one view sure. Composer to Artist too ... read on on my opinion about album artist though as that to me needs different handling ....

Classical tagging euuh ... this comes up a lot here and frankly I've answered how I do this in a bunch of posts. Short answer there is no universal way of doing this and this depends on the importance of finding certain information, how you want to search and playback the music, and what detail you want to show during payback and/or in your views. But what it really boils down to is how big your collection is and how enthusiastic you are about classical music Like if you start to have 3 versions of the same work, what are you going to do? I think it might be best for me to make a little mini-guide and I'll link it here as it would take 30 minutes for me to write it up and it would get "lost in the sauce" here so to speak.

But in the meantime, I do what you do ... for all music except classical I have my root "folder "Z:\Music" then followed either by [Album Artist]\[Album] or #2[Various Artists]\[Album] for Classical however I have #1 Classical\[Composer]\[Album] but I also have a folder Various Composers (Z:\Music\#1 - CLASSICAL\Z-Various Composers)  -- I just add the "z" to push it down to the bottom in the windows sort.

The really important thing I've learned is consistency .. and the two fields to keep really intact are Album Name and the Album Artist. If you are consistant in using the other fields, even if some are redundant, if you change your mind or you get more keen you can relatively painlessly change your mind for your views or the detail (eg. now you think you want the soloists in the artist field; later you want the orchestra in the artist field ... you can swap them around later UNLESS they are mixed up with a simple expression.

So what I recommend at the beginning (again lots of people do not agree with me, but as I said if you are consitent you can change your mind later. Use the composer field by track like artist; use the composer as the Album Artist field (so its is redundant) EXCEPT for Multiple Composer CD's (then album artist would be something like Various Composers). This will give you the ability to keep the default album grouping, so on an album artist view the albums will not be split. On a composer View, they will be split, but grouped by composer then Album.

If you take the time now to fill in these additional fields: Conductor, Orchestra, Soloists (even if normally one of these fields would also be entered in the Artist field) you can easily modify how you handle this metadata later. (eg. if you want you can always copy over or overwrite tags from one field to another using "=" eg. In te artist field you type =[Orchestra] it will automatically port over the Orchestra tag to the Artist field -- this can be done with multiple selections -- -- make a backup of your JRiver library file first!). I would also recommend filling the Period field -- genre and any subgenre fields you can modify as you go along.

I need specific views for classical (I filter out all other music from these views, as I filter out all classical from may "main " views) - the top categories are Composer, Genre/Style, Soloist, Work (which is a custom field); I also have a Pane View specifically for classical, that I now use mostly for admin, as this is based on Album Artist (also my composer). This permits me to have every permutation you mentioned, including multiple versions, different conductors etc. Do you need such detail? maybe not, but if you start now, and you collection grows, you won't regret having the detail later

PS - a little tip I use that I see in other databases : put the conductor in brackets prior to the rip and you will avoid multiple versions muck-ups in windows and you will automatically fill out the Album Name so it will indicate different versions .. a screen shot might be clearer?

as you see I have three versions of the opera Norma (the conductor Serafin did two well known recordings with Callas that is why I added the date, BTW.  Even if you have a small collection now, I think its worth the extra effort later .. of course you don't have to be as much of a geek as I am