Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[EJR]

I have an Shiit Ygdrasil Dac and because of its closed form filter it is specifically tells to set the audio to native bit depth and sample rate
I have a dac that specifically askes for native bit depth and sample rate

How should I set the input bit depth and sample rate?
Set it to the native bit depth and sample rate of the music.

it seems thatbit depth is a fixed value in jriver and sample rate switches accordingly.

is there a way to have a playlist of files of mixed bit depth play properly when switching bit depth?

i tried making 2 zones and with zone rules set one too play 16 bit and the other 24 bit. it seems to work for albums but if you mix songs it will split them in  2 separate playlists, one for each bitdepth

if you use play doctor it will stay all in the same zone however.

[ferday]

jriver will output any combination of bit depths in any playlist.  There is no need for two zones at all

If you go into the playing zone > playback options > ...device settings

You can choose automatic (which is native) or a fixed bitrate

Have you had a problem with the DAC not accepting some sort of input?

[Arindelle]

I've used Schiit Dacs, but never had a chance to check out the Ygdrasil, their top one.

Automatic should work no problem for the bitdepth.

One thing I'd do (or check at least that you have it set already), is go into DSP studio. Check the box for Output Format. Now this DAC handles anything up to 192kHz input. So make sure all settings are set to "no change" (or the exact kHz per sample rate but it results in the same thing). For sample rates over 192 you could try to downsample to 192. Maybe this DAC would have problems, over 192kHz. Regardless, with this DAC you don't want any upsampling going on.

If you do have multiple zones, you have to do this for each zone. But you don't need a specific zone for what you are asking for like Ferday said

There should be no issue with different bit depths/sample rates in a playlist with this ... never a problem with my other Schitt DACs, which also prefer native input IMO. You might perceive a "click" as some DACs, when switching bit depth is a slight but perceptible click. Never had this issue with their "non-multi" dacs though, so I don't this is going to be an issue. They do know JRiver there, and they are very helpful guys.

BTW -- I just love their sense of humor ... read the FAQ on this dac its a hoot, but edifying at the same time http://schiit.com/products/yggdrasil I'm wondering if I should get the multi-dac upgrade for a Gungnir ... this new one is out of my league price-wise

[EJR]

when i put it on automatic it shows me 32bit




every sample rate is set to native anything above 192 is set to a multiplier of either 44.1 or 48khz

[Arindelle]

when i put it on automatic it shows me 32bit

every sample rate is set to native anything above 192 is set to a multiplier of either 44.1 or 48khz

are you saying it doesn't work?? It should I'd think.  I'm curious

The 32bit "package" as they call it is just adding some zeros. I wouldn't be consider what is showing in that box. I would not use the 16bit option though.

You can try 24bit integer if not. as they say on their website the 32bit delta sigma dacs are really only using 19.5

[EJR]

the multibit gungir is supposed to be very good.
and yes their dry humour is great.

i send them a mail asking about it as  some people state that all that is added are zeroes so it should not really mess with the filter, should it.

i'm still not sure why it shows 32bit depth in the audio path as i'm sure the dac max is 24  ?

i think i prefer to leave it at 24 then since the zone rules have odd side effects when you make manually playlists

I've used Schiit Dacs, but never had a chance to check out the Ygdrasil, their top one.


Automatic should work no problem for the bitdepth.

One thing I'd do (or check at least that you have it set already), is go into DSP studio. Check the box for Output Format. Now this DAC handles anything up to 192kHz input. So make sure all settings are set to "no change" (or the exact kHz per sample rate but it results in the same thing). For sample rates over 192 you could try to downsample to 192. Maybe this DAC would have problems, over 192kHz. Regardless, with this DAC you don't want any upsampling going on.

If you do have multiple zones, you have to do this for each zone. But you don't need a specific zone for what you are asking for like Ferday said

There should be no issue with different bit depths/sample rates in a playlist with this ... never a problem with my other Schitt DACs, which also prefer native input IMO. You might perceive a "click" as some DACs, when switching bit depth is a slight but perceptible click. Never had this issue with their "non-multi" dacs though, so I don't this is going to be an issue. They do know JRiver there, and they are very helpful guys.

BTW -- I just love their sense of humor ... read the FAQ on this dac its a hoot, but edifying at the same time http://schiit.com/products/yggdrasil I'm wondering if I should get the multi-dac upgrade for a Gungnir ... this new one is out of my league price-wise

[blgentry]

1. Bit depth.  As I understand it, the Yggdrasil pads all incoming data to 24 bits before the megacombo burrito filter anyway.  So 24 bit and 16 bit are treated similarly:  16 bit data just has 8 zeros tacked on to the end.  By the Yggdrasil itself.  So feeding it 16 bit data, or 16 bit data padded by MC to 24 bits (using zeros at the end) is identical as the Yggdrasil would just be adding the zeros anyway.
2.  32 bit.  Yggdrasil should drop the 8 extra zeros.
3.  Bit rates.  Yggdrasil uses the MCB filter on any incoming bit rate below 352,800 Hz.  So keep everything in the original format until you get above 384,000 Hz.  352,800 and 384,000 are treated specially, as they completely bypass the MCB filter.  Anything above 384,000 Hz should probably be down sampled to some other rate as Yggdrasil doesn't support anything above 384,000.

So, you should be able to play 16 bit and 24 bit files in the same playlist and not worry about any mangling of the bits.  MC and Yggdrasil should play nice together in this respect.

Brian.

[RD James]

Automatic bit-depth in JRiver selects the highest bit-depth that your device supports, it does not automatically switch bit-depth based on the source.
You should always be using the highest bit-depth that your device supports.
 
It is never harmful to output a higher bit-depth than your source, this is not "upsampling".
If your 16-bit source is: 1111111111111111
Then a 24-bit output is: 111111111111111100000000
And a 32-bit output is:  11111111111111110000000000000000
 
These are functionally identical.
The advantage of doing this is that you no longer have to wait for the DAC to switch modes, since it's always using the highest bit-depth supported.
If there is any processing applied to the audio (even volume control is "processing") then it will always be performed in the highest quality possible.
 
If you reduce the volume by 12dB in 16-bit with a 16-bit source you have: 0011111111111111
If you reduce the volume by 12dB in 24-bit with a 16-bit source you have: 001111111111111111000000
If you reduce the volume by 12dB in 32-bit with a 16-bit source you have: 00111111111111111100000000000000
 
Two bits would be lost if your output was 16-bit, using a higher bit-depth retains those bits.
 

3.  Bit rates.  Yggdrasil uses the MCB filter on any incoming bit rate below 352,800 Hz.

Sample Rate, not Bit Rate.

(I'm sure you knew this and it was just a typo, as your reply was quite technical - just correcting it for anyone that didn't know)

[EJR]

interesting info.

I wonder why the manual so specifically says to send native bit depth.
Is there a scenario in witch other bit depths could harm the signal, maybe too much use of digital volume control?

Automatic bit-depth in JRiver selects the highest bit-depth that your device supports, it does not automatically switch bit-depth based on the source.

That makes sense seeing its behavior

You should always be using the highest bit-depth that your device supports.
 

The 32 bit story makes sense but since i have no desire to use 32 bit (disk space alone is a good enough reason not too) i'm gona leave it at 24 bit.
All my music is either 16 or 24 bit it should not really matter.
I never use digital volume i prefer to actually prefer to have a physical limitation on the signal.
I had a processor go bezerk once during a live show creating a horrible noise at max volume. since my colleague doing the audio at that time was flabbergasted i quickly turned of the amps to safe everyone ears.

3.  Bit rates.  Yggdrasil uses the MCB filter on any incoming bit rate below 352,800 Hz.  So keep everything in the original format until you get above 384,000 Hz.  352,800 and 384,000 are treated specially, as they completely bypass the MCB filter.  Anything above 384,000 Hz should probably be down sampled to some other rate as Yggdrasil doesn't support anything above 384,000.

Afaik yggdrasil does not support signal above 192khz and a quick test up sampling to 352,8 khz confirms this.

anyway you guys convinced me there should not really be a problem leaving it at 24 bit Thanks for that!

edit:
the guys at shiit concur

Use 24 bit, this covers you for 16 and 24 bit no problem. The sample rate should be used at the native rate.

[blgentry]

Afaik yggdrasil does not support signal above 192khz and a quick test up sampling to 352,8 khz confirms this.

I stand corrected.  I was thinking of the Bifost Multi-bit.  Bifrost MB is NOS at 176.4 kHz and 192kHz.  So you really can bypass the MCBF on that model.  On Yggdrasil you use the MCB filter no matter what.  Internally the DAC runs at either 352.8kHz or 384kHz depending on what sample rate you feed it.  It uses a multiple of the rates it gets fed and MCBF upsamples to one of the two above rates.

Sorry for the (mild) misinformation.  ...and my use of the wrong terminology above (bit rate where I should have said sample rate).

Brian.

[RD James]

The 32 bit story makes sense but since i have no desire to use 32 bit (disk space alone is a good enough reason not too) i'm gona leave it at 24 bit.
All my music is either 16 or 24 bit it should not really matter.

There is no need to convert your files to a higher bit-depth, JRiver does it on playback.
It's literally just adding additional zeros to the end of a 16-bit or 24-bit signal to pad it out to 32-bit.
It's only once you start processing the signal that outputting a higher bit-depth will make a difference.
If you aren't processing the signal at all, the two are functionally the same. It's sample rate which could potentially affect sound quality, bit-depth does not.
 
Personally I find that, as long as you switch JRiver's dither to TPDF, Volume Leveling only benefits playback and has no negative effect on the audio quality as long as your amplifier has enough gain to make up the difference in playback level.
If you play music at 100% volume, there is the possibility of inter-sample clipping occurring if the DAC doesn't account for it. (many do not)

[EJR]

i wasn't referring to converting but to getting music that is 32 bits. (if that actually exists)
since i don't have 32 bit files and don't use digital volume there is no need for me to pick 32 bit.
if i understand correctly 32 bit gets 8 bits discarded anyway.


anyway i don't have to worry about the whole 16/24 bit which good to know

cheers!

[blowfish]

I have done some experimenting and manually selecting the bit depth manually improves sound quality, however, you may not hear a difference except for those that have high end audio system equipped with the finest cabling and proper set up. I would like to see JRiver set its player to play native bit depth only and switch the bit depth automatically. Forget adding more features until the player works the way it should. Don't get me wrong if you set JRiver manually to 24 bit depth it will still play back a 16 bit file but it will be up-sampled to 24 bits which may only add a bunch of zeros but it causes the music to lose focus and transparency. It's possible that it might sound better on some systems that have a flaw somewhere, but in absolute terms altering the native bit depth does impact the sound quality. Not in a good way. Yes, it is a small improvement but small improvements add up. The better your system the bigger the impact will be.

[JimH]

It's hard to know what you mean.

Converting from 16 bit to 24 bit by definition means padding with zeroes.  You can't create something from nothing.

Before you get too far out on a limb, try MC's Listening Test.  It's under the Tools Menu.  Please share the results.