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[Matt]

The other day I sent the team an email because none of my home videos would thumbnail.

I erased all the thumbnails and they still didn't start showing back up.  But I could manually tell it to rebuild the thumbnails and that would work.

I was so confused.

Then I found this option:
Options > Tree & View > Thumbnails > Create thumbnails for videos

I have no idea how it happened, but that was off!

It's funny that I had actually sent the team a troubleshooting email because there are just too many options!

[Hendrik]

I've always been of the opinion that many things should just be on and not be options, but some crazy users always complain about the absurdest things.
I generally prefer not to add options for simple behavior changes like this.

[BryanC]

Well the answer is clearly to add another option to show/hide advanced options!

[JimH]

I've always been of the opinion that many things should just be on and not be options, ...

That's Apple's approach and it's sort of worked for them.

[mojave]

This option was added in version 14.0.24 (07/01/2009) and here is the thread with the reasoning behind the option:

How to turn off that MC automatically builds thumbnails for video files?

It is a good option, IMO.

I like this quote from Matt  :

In Media Center 14.0.24 and later (available on the v14 board in about a week):
NEW: Added new option: Options > Tree & View > Thumbnails > Create thumbnails for videos.

If you disable this, you will need to reenable it to manually build thumbnails.  For example, you could reenable it and click the "Build missing thumbnails..." command right next to it.

[blgentry]

Options are a double edged sword.  As Jim mentioned with Apple, it's part of their design philosophy to deliver a user experience that works in a specific way and to limit the number of options.  Some people like this as it makes things very consistent and generally more simple.  Others HATE it.  I'm in between the two camps.

But I use JRiver Media Center and I love it, so I must like options. 

I've actually been bitten by this same thing of thumbnails not building.  I started a forum thread about it.  No one could help me, despite best efforts at trying.  I ended up restoring an older database backup, with settings only, and that cured it.  A week or so later I learned about this option and smacked my forehead.

In my opinion, there is a rather obvious fix:  When thumbnail building is disabled, and a user tries to build thumbnails, give them a message!  Either a simple "this option is disabled", or "do you want to turn this option back on?" .  The former seems rather easy and would reduce confusion.  At least for Matt and for me! 

Brian.

[CountryBumkin]

I like Options.  But only when I know what they are for.

I would love to see every option have a "mouse over" popup window that explains what the option does - or a link to the Wiki where there is a current explanation.

[Mr ChriZ]

Make it so pressing ctrl and clicking on an option takes you to the Interact thread for why the option was created 

[RoderickGI]

That's Apple's approach and it's sort of worked for them.

As above, it works for them until they do something that everyone hates, like change their music business model, introducing Apple Music, and removing even more flexibility in iTunes.

MC is very well suited to the geeky market. People who want options and control over the software they use. That is me by the way. The geeky market is a smaller market, but if you tried to remove the geekiness, by removing some options, you would then end up competing directly with Apple and iTunes. How do you think that would go?

I am a firm believer that software systems should be as complex as necessary internally to make the user experience as simple as possible. But that doesn't mean removing flexibility and options, it means working smarter to make using those options easy. So, popup descriptions of what an option does, well understood and documented dependencies, built into the code. Messages that tell the user "Oh, if you want to do that, you need to turn on this. Do you want me to do it for you?" Grouping of options logically together. Etc.

However, I don't think the organic development process used by JRiver would support that level of simplification for the user. So, more options, and a learning curve, all of which is a differentiator from the Apples of the world.

[mwillems]

I like Options.  But only when I know what they are for.

I would love to see every option have a "mouse over" popup window that explains what the option does - or a link to the Wiki where there is a current explanation.

This is basically where I am;  I'm mostly glad to have options, but I dislike not knowing what they do.  However, I think it's better than the alternative, at least taken to an extreme.  I affirmatively hate the "less is more" design philosophy some software embraces because I inevitably want to do something that I can't do, so I'm always left mildly peeved at "simple" UI.  If software wants to hide the advanced panel behind a warning that tinkering will eat you alive (like firefox does with about:config, or Gnome does with dconf), I'm fine with that, but actually eliminating advanced options frustrates me.  

That said,when I started with MC, I had two major beefs with the options:  1) I could rarely figure out where an option I hadn't used before was or what it might be called and 2) I couldn't easily figure out what many of the options did.

The first issue was fixed for me when Matt pointed out that there was a search box at the bottom of the options menu  

I still run into the second issue sometimes.  Trial and error and the forum will get you most of the way there.  There have been a handful of options, though, that I had to get out a microphone to figure out what they did.

So I'm 95% happy with the multitude of options, and I'll certainly take it over streamlined and/or hidden UI any day of the week.  If we lived in a perfect world where all options were perfectly self-explanatory and/or tool-tipped, I'd be 100% happy with the wondrous profusion. But we live in the real world, and as such, I'm very thankful for all the options, even the ones I'm not entirely sure what they do    

[RD James]

I use JRiver because it has all these options.
If I wanted a simple player I'd be using something like iTunes.
 
It's been very frustrating to me when changes are made to JRiver behaviors, and recently the attitude has been "we don't want to add an option for that".
An example of that would be when you finally added the standardized CTRL+Scroll input to resize thumbnails, which was promptly removed in order to let existing users hold CTRL while scrolling a list for some reason.
That's a prime candidate for either adding an option, or sticking to the standard system behavior if you aren't. (that behavior is standard across all operating systems and virtually all applications!)
 
Same thing when you made middle-click on a tab change the list view type instead of closing the tab. What is this lunacy?
If you aren't going to have options for things like that, then you need to start following standard conventions for your inputs/program behavior.
That's part of the reason why Apple are able to remove options for many things. They don't do weird unconventional things with the way each program behaves, they follow system standards.
 
I do agree that the options for JRiver could be massively simplified by having an advanced mode toggle somewhere in the options.
Most people probably don't need to change most of the options that are available, and presenting new users with a short list of options would make things a lot easier.
 
I don't support the removal of existing options, or the reluctance to add new options however.
 
I think the fact that you have a search field in the options window is really great when there are so many options.
It makes the process of finding what you're looking for, or recommending settings to someone else so much easier.

[gappie]

i actually like options  .. some make no sense to me, but might for others... and vv.

but options has a great search function. type thumbnail 

[ssands]

Yes to options. There are so many permutations of H/W, configurations, and usage patterns and preferences that I believe they are needed.
But, yes, they need good documentation. (pop-ups good).

One thing I really miss is that when a new feature/option/whatever is added or changed, I would really like to see it included in the wiki. I know it is extra time, but it would be better than searching the forum and looking thru a bunch of hits.
Plus it would facilitate discovery for those wishing to investigate the MC possibilities further.

Maybe an intern could be hired to update the wiki?

[Arindelle]

I basically agree with Mwillems and Roderick – I love the ability of having so many possible configuration choices within MC … the multiple audio configuration by zone was absolutely brilliant.

So, I would not want anything approaching Apple’s philosophy, which to me would essentially ‘dumb-down” the program. I do think JRiver is like Photoshop and should not have a simple module (like MS Paint), would it be worth having a “Photoshop Essentials” type of program? Sort of doubt it ... JRiver is not the same size as Adobe - and I hope it remains a small business too. But who knows

However in saying this, I do think that JRiver is suffering from Option “Bloat”.  Again as Mwillems said, there are options that frankly even after testing them I have no clue what they do … or I think I know and explain to someone here, and find out later that’s not what they are supposed to be used for!

The search box is really important. But the need for it is indicative of this bloat.  So dilemma … do I lobby for simplification at the expense of reduction in configuration choices? No way, make the noobs learn like I had to do 

Joking aside, I understand basic business concerns to increase the user base … and it is beneficial to all – gives resources to the audio/database geeks amongst us. I think that adding Video accomplished this and now maybe TV also. Still, I think the core notoriety goes back to audio users (and hate the term but I guess I’ll say audiophile) and the powerful and configurable database for larger collectors.  This has changed some as bringing on board Hendrik’s talent (amongst the other well deserved devs of course!) and incorporating MADvr etc has made JRiver on the cutting edge of video playback too. So for me this “notoriety/critical acclaim” should be maintained. And sure its a more “geek/power user” niche. The question as to should JRiver do more and more things, and/or should they have to be the best at all things is getting too off-topic, but I think it is linked.

Now … just my opinion of course, skip the rest if bored . By being responsive to “small/fast” requests which under version21 seems a priority, and often just adds another option so that no functionality that some hold dear will be broken, can not only magnify this “bloat”, but could get the software in a dangerous position …

As metaphor, take a Swiss army knife. A Swiss army knife has been around for years, they are nice tools, but now they are making them into huge, fat, ridiculously pocket uncomfortable things – they do do everything, but finding the right blade for the job is not efficient and the tool is often not that good anyways. OK, Victorinox still makes the Cadet which is a slim model and does everything well; get a Leatherman when you need a pliers right ? Or maybe you just get a very good, but beautifully crafted knife and take the Leatherman when you need it and leave the Swiss army knife at home in the drawer … indefinitely.

So getting back to the options,  this is sort of a dilemma … I think that just adding options is going to eventually cause problems; at the same time not using the options philosophy is going against what I want as a user …

What this means to me, is that one of these versions/years a significant UI overhaul is going to have to be done … and yep this will cost and take time. And I imagine time is key here in this sector, so you can’t just put everything else on hold for a year, without getting pummeled by the newest trend by a Plex, Roon etc. So I get it – NOT easy. NOT cheap. How much would 10 temp developers and 2 graphic designers cost for 6 months? I’m not sure but $100’s of thousands I imagine. (crowd funding??)

IMO once again of course, options should be ergonomic, self-explanatory for the most part. Having to explain to new users that remote views are found buried in an advanced option under Network is not intuitive. Neither is having to make three different views for experienced users. The option to make them different for each mode sure, but that they are not automatically generated for all modes is complicated and, arguably, time-consuming. The front-end of JRiver using Theater and JRemote can’t be beat (video eye-candy aside).  Standard mode has the most powerful, fastest, totally customizable searches I’ve seen, ideal for large collections. So I get  suggestions where one radically cleans up the options  …. but that is still a tremendous amount of developer time/cost. Again arguably, the UI still has a nineties XP look to it, might as well spruce up some of the design elements for the eye-candy crowd coming from KODI instead?

In the mean time, combining existing options in the “chapter” heading to the left of the Option box could be a cheaper short-term solution? I think this would help a lot of people – already indicated an example for Views, but lately there have been a lot of questions about cover art. So for example Views and Cover Art could be a separate Options heading … the options for cover art are all over the place. 

I do think that for new users a “factory default” could be set-up. Now of course this would probably only work for 70% of the people out of the box. But if these option defaults were clearly listed somewhere, and you basically have one audio zone set to WASAPI, exclusive; for media server a set of defaults using JRiver as a renderer, Import Options set to X – whatever. All they would have to know would be how to set their playback device in their OS and choose the paths for importing their stuff. If needed they could revert back to these “basic defaults”, if they started to play around too much.   Then if they indicated the equipment and connections on a forum they would be easy to help – use the native ASIO driver for your DAC, use this DLNA option etc.  Options then could be the reserve of the power-users, just tweaked for everybody else depending on their system, networks etc.

I apologize in advance if this wall of text is taken out of context. I do not presume to know better than the folks at JRiver, and certainly don’t mean to stick my nose in their business. I also like that it is a small business and not vulnerable to outside investors desiderata. And totally get it that they have to make a profit.  I think it is obvious that I love the program. And I live very happily in its sea of options, and hope to continue to do so for years to come. So take all of the above with a grain of salt.

[jgreen]

This seems like a great place for a feature request for another option:  How about a top menu item that will hide and restore the entire left sidebar, kinda as if it was a windows-compliant menu?   Hmmm?

[RoderickGI]

This seems like a great place for a feature request for another option:  How about a top menu item that will hide and restore the entire left sidebar, kinda as if it was a windows-compliant menu?   Hmmm?

Off Topic, but: I assume you mean that you specifically want a top menu item to do this, as the function already exists. Just click the Disclosure Triangles on the divider bar between the Navigation Bar and the View panes. See image.

I guess some users may look for a View>Navigation>Show/Hide Navigation Bar, but Disclosure Triangles are used in multiple places, such as to show or hide a bottom split pane in a View, and you wouldn't want a menu item for every possibility. Especially as the items would have to change when a View changes.

[DoubtingThomas]

That's Apple's approach and it's sort of worked for them.

Which is why I won't use Apple products.... if you want to do it Steve Jobs way, it couldn't be easier.  But if you want to do it your way.. .DENIED

[jgreen]

I like double-clicking the triangles (area), but sometimes even that requires more effort and accuracy than I'm capable of.  I'd love to see the whole sidebar float.

And besides, wasn't this whole thread about increasing the number of options?

[RoderickGI]

And besides, wasn't this whole thread about increasing the number of options?

  Yes of course it is! 

BTW, you should only need one click on the Disclosure Triangles to activate them. The little buggers are hard to see though. An option to make them a bright, user defined colour would be great. 

Seriously though, a "floating" (not detached) Navigation Bar that pops out when a user moves the mouse to the left edge of Standard View, and closes when the mouse moves away, with appropriate delays so neither happen accidentally, would be interesting. Sort of like the Windows Task Bar. I used to use software that had that feature, and most of the time it wasn't annoying!

A detached bar would get annoying quickly, get in the way, and lose context easily. I dock all my sidebars in Photoshop for that reason.

[RD James]

The program can already do this in Cover View (CTRL+5)
There just needs to be an option to do this in Standard View too.
I'd like it to also be an option for split views and not just the tree.
 
Adobe Lightroom handles it very well.
You can right-click any of the panes (all four edges) and set them to Manual, Auto-Hide, Auto-Hide & Show.
The setting is for each panel individually so you can set it up however you want.
I use all three settings. The toolbar at the top is set to Auto-Hide, the history/file browser on the left is set to auto-hide & show, and the editing tools on the right and the filmstrip along the bottom are set to manual. (and visible at all times)

[AudioMunchies]

Options and flexibility are what makes JRiver what it is. If you want to cater to the frustrated hill billy bob who can't handle more than one option before his head starts spinning, then put out a light version at a reduced cost.

[shAf]

I like Options.  But only when I know what they are for.

I would love to see every option have a "mouse over" popup window that explains what the option does - or a link to the Wiki where there is a current explanation.

I agree...but have to also admit that I've gone to the Wiki many times in the past to find it not up to date.  IMO, for every new option, new feature or update there should be a Wiki definition or update.

[CountryBumkin]

I think some "regrouping" might help.

for example under "Tree & View" is "Full Screen (Display View, Theater View, etc.)" option. I think this should be located under "Video". Similarly under "Audio" is "Disable display from turning off", IMO this should be under Video too.

Put the settings in the groups where one would logically expect to find them. For anyone using the program for a while, its not an issue - but it would make it easier for new users.

[RD James]

for example under "Tree & View" is "Full Screen (Display View, Theater View, etc.)" option. I think this should be located under "Video".

Lots of people use Display View (Visualizers) and Theater View for audio, not just video playback.

Similarly under "Audio" is "Disable display from turning off", IMO this should be under Video too.

The only time I need this option is when I'm playing music via HDMI.
Video playback prevents the display turning off automatically - though not when paused. I wish the "disable display from turning off" also applied there.

Put the settings in the groups where one would logically expect to find them. For anyone using the program for a while, its not an issue - but it would make it easier for new users.

People just need to start using search. It's so much faster than hunting around for settings.
Not because they are in a bad location (though I do agree that some are) but because there are a lot of them.

[CountryBumkin]

Lots of people use Display View (Visualizers) and Theater View for audio, not just video playback.

Still - it's a video thing

The only time I need this option is when I'm playing music via HDMI.
Video playback prevents the display turning off automatically - though not when paused. I wish the "disable display from turning off" also applied there.

Again - video related

People just need to start using search. It's so much faster than hunting around for settings.
Not because they are in a bad location (though I do agree that some are) but because there are a lot of them.

Searching is fine if you know the name of the thing you're looking for. But if you don't, you would start looking under the "heading" of the type of effect it has (visual, audible, etc.).
Just making a suggestion ....

[Hendrik]

Video options should refer to actual video playback, not everything having to do with the screen in the most remote of senses.
Otherwise half of all settings end up on that page.

You can't advocate clearer separation and then muddle everything into category. Video playback is its own separate thing, it should not get mixed with screen or other display related settings.