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[SckT]

My current desktop audio setup is PC -> Clones Audio Asher DAC -> Violectric V281 (balanced out) -> Audeze LCD2F.
I've until recently been using MB as my default music player, but lately downloaded JMC21 as a trial.
After a quick setup, I immediately discovered an increase in sound quality.
The soundstage is obviously larger, with better imaging and seemingly more impactful bass.
I was surprised but at the same time puzzled by these changes.
I am almost totally sold on this music player, but have a few dealbreaking problems with it, I hope someone here can help me:

1. I want to upsample my data in the "output encoding" option before sending to DAC, but I find that if I choose the higher options (4 x DSD or above), the music becomes stuttered, even when I have increased the buffering rate to 500msec.  I know 2 x DSD may be just as detectably good as 4 or 8 x DSD, but still, I just want to test out the potentials of all my components.

2. when I use the mouse pad on my laptop to scroll on the playlist or even while using other programmes, the music becomes stuttered, and I have to pause or stop the music and restart again to continue listening.  This really is annoying me.

If I can find solutions to these, I will probably be purchasing the player right away.
Also, if there are other ways or options on the player that I can use to increase the sound quality better, please let me know.

Thank you so very much.

[RD James]

Both of these sound like your PC isn't fast enough to handle the upsampling to such high rates.
#1 seems like it can't handle 4x DSD at all, and #2 sounds like it's right at the very limit of what your system can handle, so that even scrolling a list is pushing it over the edge.
 
You could try offline conversion (make copies, do not replace your source files!) and see if they play with bitstreaming instead of real-time upsampling, but personally I find that upsampling to PCM (24-bit 384kHz for your DAC) instead of DSD (1-bit 11MHz) is both less demanding, and sounds better - as long as you set dither to TPDF. (search for dither in the options window)

[Arindelle]

question - what are you using to connect your computer to your DAC? USB? SPDIF Coax/Optical?

as for your point #1

I'm surprised that a DAC at this price point handles all input sampling using USB but not other inputs. Seems odd. Regardless, I'm assuming you want to upsample because you are not using USB. Usually you would let a high-end DAC use the native sample rate, here you might need to set  set to change only those above 192kHz? Not all DSD choices are going to work for all DACs, I'd check with the Clones guys, I'm sure they know about JRiver. Converting a PCM file to a DSD file? I see no reason, but hey your justing testing things so have fun 

as for point #2

Not sure what you mean by using other programs, as you probably want to be using JRiver in exclusive mode. If you are  not using USB you don't have a specific driver installed for the DAC.  I'd double check the basic instructions just to be sure there is not a simple config error (read all the pages from the links on this page => https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started especially the audio and dac setup links.   You  probably should start by using WASAPI exclusive mode. keeping the default buffer rate.  There should be no issues with stuttering. (other than maybe forcing upsampling to rates that your DAC or very slow PC can't handle)

If you are using USB, however, normally you should be loading the native driver from the manufacturer of the DAC. Make sure this is up to date (maybe you are on Win 10 and you have an older driver?), and correctly chosen in Windows.  I don't know your dac, just read its specs, but its usually an ASIO type driver, right? I suppose its possible that you might have to tweak the buffering, but usually these work out of the box. You probably should test this by clicking on the Output Format box -- set encoding to none and set all sample rates to no change that your DAC handles natively. "Stuttering" is a no-go for anyone.

Off-topic -- I'd check that you are either using Internal Volume or Disabled Volume (see the WIKI for more info). System volume you don't want to use as you want to bypass the windows mixer and application volume is for pretty specific reasons.

[dtc]

question - what are you using to connect your computer to your DAC? USB? SPDIF Coax/Optical?

as for your point #1

I'm surprised that a DAC at this price point handles all input sampling using USB but not other inputs. Seems odd. Regardless, I'm assuming you want to upsample because you are not using USB. Usually you would let a high-end DAC use the native sample rate, here you might need to set  set to change only those above 192kHz? Not all DSD choices are going to work for all DACs, I'd check with the Clones guys, I'm sure they know about JRiver. Converting a PCM file to a DSD file? I see no reason, but hey your justing testing things so have fun 


 

USB is the input of choice for DXD and DSD. Coax does not typically handle those sample rates and optical seldom, if ever, does.

It really sounds like the issue is with an under powered laptop, not the DAC.

[Arindelle]

USB is the input of choice for DXD and DSD. Coax does not typically handle those sample rates and optical seldom, if ever, does.

It really sounds like the issue is with an under powered laptop, not the DAC.

ok thanks for the info. I'm not a DSD fan, and I like to avoid USB.  I was referring to the higher def PCM sample rates, but good to know.

as for the underpowered laptop, maybe. As I said, he can test by insuring he's running a standard config not oversampling,  easy enough. I would be interested why anyone would want to oversample with a quality DAC ... JRiver is very, very good and I'd do this with a low quality DAC to see if it helps, but not the otherway around. Not going into what I think about PCM to DSD as this is off-topic, but its probably the only thing along with convolution or parametric eq filters that would cause a bottleneck linked to a slow processor.

[SckT]

Thanks so much everyone.
Quite a lot of suggestions and information for me to digest and try out.
For now, I think I will just remove all output encoding, not to upsample my files and check my computer configurations.
As long as I can remove the stuttering, I will be a happy user.
By the way, I am transferring my data from my PC to DAC via USB(Combo384 ASIO).

[oldson]

My current desktop audio setup is PC -> Clones Audio Asher DAC -> Violectric V281 (balanced out) -> Audeze LCD2F.
I've until recently been using MB as my default music player, but lately downloaded JMC21 as a trial.
After a quick setup, I immediately discovered an increase in sound quality.
The soundstage is obviously larger, with better imaging and seemingly more impactful bass.
I was surprised but at the same time puzzled by these changes.
I am almost totally sold on this music player, but have a few dealbreaking problems with it, I hope someone here can help me:

1. I want to upsample my data in the "output encoding" option before sending to DAC, but I find that if I choose the higher options (4 x DSD or above), the music becomes stuttered, even when I have increased the buffering rate to 500msec.  I know 2 x DSD may be just as detectably good as 4 or 8 x DSD, but still, I just want to test out the potentials of all my components.

2. when I use the mouse pad on my laptop to scroll on the playlist or even while using other programmes, the music becomes stuttered, and I have to pause or stop the music and restart again to continue listening.  This really is annoying me.

If I can find solutions to these, I will probably be purchasing the player right away.
Also, if there are other ways or options on the player that I can use to increase the sound quality better, please let me know.

Thank you so very much.

i am getting same issues as you.
just curious to know your jrmark score? mine is at just over 4000 and i thought that would be good enough, but maybe not.

[Arindelle]

i am getting same issues as you.
just curious to know your jrmark score? mine is at just over 4000 and i thought that would be good enough, but maybe not.

that is definitely good enough for audio even complex convolution filters IMO -- check your config and if you need them external drivers, also your DACS compatibility if playing around in DSP studio.

[oldson]

it may actually have been my dac, chord mojo.

have just re-connected my old dac, ifi micro idsd, and so far i am not getting same issues.

to the OP, sorry to hijack your thread, but have you got another dac to try?

[dtc]

i am getting same issues as you.
just curious to know your jrmark score? mine is at just over 4000 and i thought that would be good enough, but maybe not.

As I remember, a jmark of 4000 is about minimum for converting to 2x DSD. I have an older i5 with a jmark of 2500 and I can convert to 1x DSD on the fly, but get gaps trying to to 2X DSD.  This is using DoP conversion, but I do not think that has much effect. You should have buffering set to 500 milliseconds and large buffers on.

If you can do 1x DSD but not 2X or 4X it is probably the CPU.

[dtc]

it may actually have been my dac, chord mojo.

have just re-connected my old dac, ifi micro idsd, and so far i am not getting same issues.

to the OP, sorry to hijack your thread, but have you got another dac to try?

That's a little surprising. Can you play 2X DSD files on the mojo?

[oldson]

That's a little surprising. Can you play 2X DSD files on the mojo?

they play but with the same issues as 4xdsd files.

until last night i was using mojo on foobar. i used to get the occasional error on start-up of "unable to start aiso playback".
(last night i installed jriver for the first time.)
so i am now wondering if my mojo drivers have got corrupted somehow.
have just un-installed the mojo drivers and will try again later.

my micro idsd just arrived in the post an hour ago, it had been back to AMR/IFI and has had a new board fitted.
so far that has been playing with upscale to 4xdsd without an issue.

[dtc]

Are you using ASIO with 500 millisecond buffer and large buffers?

If you cannot play straight 2xDSD files (no conversion) than there is probably something wrong with the setup.

[oldson]

Are you using ASIO with 500 millisecond buffer and large buffers?

If you cannot play straight 2xDSD files (no conversion) than there is probably something wrong with the setup.

settings are as you suggest.
i am trying to upscale all my 16/44 rips to 4xdsd. i do not have any native dsd files.
this all works without fault on my ifi micro with wasapi.

[dtc]

settings are as you suggest.
i am trying to upscale all my 16/44 rips to 4xdsd. i do not have any native dsd files.
this all works without fault on my ifi micro with wasapi.

If you want to do some testing, you can use MC to convert a 16/44 rip to dsd or you can download some native dsd files.

One source for free native DSD files is nativedsd.com You have to register and then are some nice test file under Music - Test files. There are 1x, 2x and 4x native DSD that you can download for free. Also some DXD versions of the same tracks.

[oldson]

If you want to do some testing, you can use MC to convert a 16/44 rip to dsd or you can download some native dsd files.

One source for free native DSD files is nativedsd.com You have to register and then are some nice test file under Music - Test files. There are 1x, 2x and 4x native DSD that you can download for free. Also some DXD versions of the same tracks.

cheers that sounds like a good idea. will have a look later 

[oldson]

SckT
have you had any luck with your issue yet?