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[thane108]

I discovered yesterday that JRiver wasn't finding my tuners/couldn't lock the OTA signal.  I'm using HDHomerun across my local network.  It's been working great for months and months. 

Our electricity did flicker yesterday - could that have corrupted a file?  Should I re-install, or is there another fix I should try first?

I can view all the channels on the HDHomerun viewer.

I can successfully scan for channels from within JRiver.

I tried disabling my firewall, I tried rescanning from within JRiver.

[Yaobing]

Make sure your antenna is still in correct position and the connection is still good.

Is your network still good?  And MC is still allowed through firewall?

An electrical interruption is more likely to damage your hardware than software.

[thane108]

As I can view all the channels using the HDhomerun viewer I assume I can rule out the antenna and network and hardware.

I did a reinstall of the HDHomerun software, but that didn't help.

I did disable the firewall to test that issue - that didn't help.

Shall I reinstall JRiver next?

[Yaobing]

Reinstall is easy, go ahead and try.

[thane108]

Re-install didn't work for me.  I'm baffled.

The last time I had this problem it turned out that the local engineer had an incorrect setting on the transmission that was preventing JRiver from tuning the channel.  But that was just for a couple of channels.  Then they fixed that.

I'm wondering if it could be the same issue - that the power surge put them into backup equipment that has the incorrect setting.

Think that could be the problem?  Any other suggestions?

[Yaobing]

It is extremely unlikely that all TV stations in your area have the same problem.

Did you try running HDHomeRun Setup and make sure the settings are still correct.  JRiver Media Center is still the chosen application for "BDA Compatibility mode", and the Source Type for your tuners is still "Digital Antenna".  On Advanced tab, under BDA Driver, Virtual Channel Table mode is "Auto".  You can also try clicking "Repair" button on the same tab.

[thane108]

Yes, just checked again - all the settings are correct.

And I did try the repair function in HDHomerun.  Even reinstalled software and firmware.  No dice.

I guess I could do a complete uninstall of JRiver - with all the boxes checked and then do a complete re-install?

Or I could send a sample to Silicondust - though it seems strange that I get the channels just fine with their viewer.

I'm stumped!

[CountryBumkin]

This suggestion probably won't be well received, but maybe you should get a cheap Hauppauge USB Tuner stick (they are under $40 now) to have as backup and for testing -since you are OTA. If you had two tuners it would help you figure out if was the JRiver program that is messed up or if its the Tuner card, or the antenna is the problem.
Good luck with everything.

[thane108]

Thanks, Country Bumpkin.

I'm thinking I'm going to install mediaportal to test the tuner.  If that works, I'll re-install JRiver from scratch.

I'm most puzzled that I can view all the channels using HDHomerun's viewer, and I can also view the channels across the network through my playstation 3.  I guess its possible that some aspect of the tuner has been damaged that only impacts JRiver - but that really seems strange.

I guess I'm becoming convinced that its something within the JRiver install.

Any suggestions or speculation would be much appreciated.

[RoderickGI]

I discovered yesterday that JRiver wasn't finding my tuners/couldn't lock the OTA signal.  I'm using HDHomerun across my local network.  It's been working great for months and months. 

Our electricity did flicker yesterday - could that have corrupted a file?  Should I re-install, or is there another fix I should try first?

I can view all the channels on the HDHomerun viewer.

I can successfully scan for channels from within JRiver.

I tried disabling my firewall, I tried rescanning from within JRiver.

I'm just guessing, as I don't have a HDHomerun or know the setup.

Could the electrical blip have rebooted your router, and if so, did the HDHomerun get a new IP Address?

Again, I don't know if a scan would work, but a lock would not in that situation. Maybe Yaobing could answer that. If correct, change the IP Address back.

If the problem is in MC, a library backup, complete uninstall, reinstall and then restore of the backup may just reinstate the problem. I would rather delete the tuners in MC, reboot, then re-add them. But that will require a complete TV setup again I believe.

[thane108]

I'm beginning to think that the problem is with the HDHomerun tuner - but I am perplexed that the HDHomerun viewer is working perfectly with all the channels while JRiver, VLC, and Mediaportal are unable to resolve the signal.  (VLC and Mediaportal have lots of artifacts, JRiver just won't lock.)

It kind of reminds me of an old problem I had with multipath interference - but that was station specific.  This problem impacts all my stations.  (It is Spring and all the trees between my nearby translator are putting on leaves.)

Do any of you techies have enough understanding of the HDHomerun tuner to offer an explanation?  Is there some component of the tuner that could have failed that governs how the signal is adjusted for JRiver, VLC, etc - but isn't needed for the HDHomerun viewer?

I probably just need to replace the tuner, but it would be nice to have a better understanding prior to proceeding.

Insights and/or speculation appreciated!

[Yaobing]

I forget whether you already said it, but did you try reinstalling SiliconDust software (including drivers)?

[thane108]

Yes - I uninstalled and then installed HDhomerun.  I deleted the driver (generic) from within device manager then had it search for a driver - again generic device driver.

[JimH]

Did the machine change in any other way at about the time you started having the problem?

Are you running antivirus software?  Or a registry cleaner?  Or anything else unusual?

[thane108]

No - nothing was different, other than there was a brief power surge and lights flicker.

PC and router is on surge protector and battery backup.

HDHomerun is just on a surge protector - so power did flicker on HDHomerun.

[JimH]

Antivirus, etc?

Did you try powering everything down and back up (including the network, router, tuner, etc?  Maybe you said.

[thane108]

Yes - I tried with antivirus/firewall disabled.

I have powered off/on the router, PC, and HDhomerun.

I have uninstalled and installed JRiver and HDHomerun.

I tried to view with VLC - and get distorted signal.  Same with Mediaportal.

However, HDHomerun viewer is picture perfect.

Could it be a codec issue of some sort?  A codec required for JRiver and VLC but not HDHomerun viewer?

[RoderickGI]

However, HDHomerun viewer is picture perfect.

I have a vague recollection of a discussion where it was mentioned that the HDHomerun software detects and communicates with the HDHomerun using a different method to all other software. You may be able to find some reference to that via Google.

I think MC, and maybe other software, uses DLNA to detect and talk to the HDHomerun, which means it is reliant on the IP Address, and DLNA discovery. . . I think.

[imeric]

I've had STILL HAVE a similar issue but with Hauppage cards so I doubt this will help...See here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100789.msg710562#msg710562

Broadcasting issues that MC can not handle (Discrepancies in TSID...) ? (but other softwares can...) Yaobing I'm afraid this will keep happening...

In the link above there's also a link to another post with more info.

I still have 1 out of 2 channels missing depsite my several attempts with the broadcaster to get the issue resolved....
This reminds me to ping the broadcaster again ...

 

[thane108]

I had a problem with the local provider in the past - I don't believe it is the issue for me this time around as I have the same issue will all local channels and mediaportal and vlc both have issues resolving the signal.

It is either my tuner or it is a software issue in my PC.

I'm thinking it is my tuner - but I'm perplexed in that the HDHomerun viewer handles all the stations "picture perfect."

I keep thinking I'm doing something really stupid in the setup - but I've been through the setup three times now and I'm a long-time user of JRiver.

Still, I've taken enough left-turns to accept it could just be a "user error."

I'm waiting for feedback from the HDHomerun people.  I sent them a sample. I'll share if it is useful.

[Yaobing]

I have a vague recollection of a discussion where it was mentioned that the HDHomerun software detects and communicates with the HDHomerun using a different method to all other software. You may be able to find some reference to that via Google.

This was my guess when I suggested re-installing SiliconDust software.  They maybe using a lower level API of their own.  That could explain why only their program works.

I think MC, and maybe other software, uses DLNA to detect and talk to the HDHomerun, which means it is reliant on the IP Address, and DLNA discovery. . . I think.

True only for CableCARD devices (such as HDHomerun Prime).  Not true for OTA devices which use bda architecture.

It could be a DirectShow issue.  Try running dxdiag tool.

[RoderickGI]

Not true for OTA devices which use bda architecture.

In that case if the SiliconDust HDHomerun viewer software works, other software using the BDA driver should work. While some BDA drivers aren't as good as others, the BDA architecture is very mature and well understood. Maybe the SiliconDust BDA driver isn't perfect, but SiliconDust know how to get around some idiosyncrasy.

It could be a DirectShow issue.  Try running dxdiag tool.

That is a good suggestion, although DXdiag has never really helped me solve strange DirectShow issues, only relatively obvious ones that are usually fixed by reinstalling or updating filters or drivers.

[thane108]

Solved! - I think.

Siicondust suggested that I completed uninstall Norton firewall as

" It is not enough to disable the firewall - it must be uninstalled (disabling typically only affects the rule-set, the firewall driver remains in the data path)"

After a complete uninstall I now get video/sound on JRiver and VLC.

You might want to add something in your trouble-shooting section about completely uninstalling the firewall as a test as disabling the firewall gives you a false test - at least in my case.

Thanks for everyone's support, patience and suggestions over the past few days. 

[Yaobing]

" It is not enough to disable the firewall - it must be uninstalled (disabling typically only affects the rule-set, the firewall driver remains in the data path)"

Ah, the bad old firewall.

The advice from SiliconDust is exactly what Jim always tells users (more often about antivirus than firewall though).

[RoderickGI]

The Norton firewall is pretty configurable. Once you are satisfied that the firewall was the cause, you should be able to reinstall it and exclude/allow whatever process was being blocked.

You just need to find out what that process is... sometimes difficult, but Norton should be reporting what it is blocking, and SiliconDust may be able to tell you what it is.

[thane108]

So, I had Norton configured with firewall exceptions and it was working according to Hoyle.

Yes, I am venting.

I'm guessing that some automatic update did something - good intentions - but it screwed me.

And it took me three days of guessing and testing to discover that it was a firewall issue, in part because disabling the Norton firewall wasn't sufficient.  You really had to un-install Norton to solve the issue.

I really like Norton, but I might be done with the software.

[RoderickGI]

Actually, I would be surprised if turning off everything under Security>Advanced (Norton 360) wouldn't have fixed the problem, without an uninstall. The problem is companies like SiliconDust aren't going to understand how all security software works, so they are going to suggest the big hammer approach. Just as JRiver does.

As a minimum the Smart Firewall, Intrusion Prevention, Browser Protection, Safe Surfing, and Download intelligence, but turning off everything and then turning on one at a time could have identified the issue.

I've had serious problems with multiple security applications, including McAfee, Trend, Commodo and others, and I find Norton is at least thorough, and pretty quick at updating for new threats. With Ransomware on the rise, I am loath to risk some of the solutions, although Kaspersky is now getting better reviews from users.

Anyway, venting is allowed... a little bit. 

[thane108]

I just wish that using the Norton disable menu functions would have given me a clue that the firewall was the issue.  Totally misleading.

To give Silicondust credit - their FAQ that stated that I had to actually uninstall the Norton software was the only guidance that got me through to the other side.

That said, I'm scared s-less of the ransomware so I will step carefully as I select alternative security software.

What do you thing of Windows firewall and defender.  Both recommended by Silicondust.

Sufficient?

[RoderickGI]

I haven't used Windows Firewall or Defender in ages. They weren't up to the task when I did. The current versions, especially on Windows 10, are better I believe, but I don't know how good.

The things is, I don't think either have the advanced features like heuristics, Intrusion Prevention, Browser Protection, Safe Surfing, Download intelligence, etc. But I could be wrong.

My approach when I have trouble with these sorts of applications is to learn why it is causing me problems, and see if it can be fixed. That way I don't have to re-learn another application, which is bound to have its own issues, which will take time before I find them, or suffer them. If the problems can't be fixed, or in my judgement the whole philosophy of the program is broken, for example with Acronis True Image backup software, then I move on and find another application. I don't think Norton is anywhere near a problem at this time, or has been for many years.

The Norton disable menu (right click on the system tray icon) only disables the Firewall or Auto-Protect mode. It doesn't disable the other features on Norton, which is an attempt I think to protect you from yourself. But if you had known to open the application and disable all features as I suggested, or maybe looked up the logs, you would have gotten further, quicker. I don't actually know how much you did, or how well you know the Norton functionality. If SiliconDust has suggested to me to uninstall Norton, I would have been straight to the logs, and if I didn't find anything, or wanted to test if messages I saw were causing the issue, I would have worked through turning off all the Norton features, then turning one at a time back on, to find the cause.


If you really wanted to drop Norton, I think Kaspersky is the best alternative, today. But it depends on the type of use you make of your PC, the internet, where you source applications and media from, and so on. While I am cautious of fake emails, spoofed web addresses, and so on (social engineering attacks), I basically rely on Norton to protect me no matter what I do on the PC, and it does.

[thane108]

Yeah - I'll tackle Norton again.

I've had Norton installed with my system for years with no problems - I guess it was just some update that got me.

It was very confusing - HDHomerun view was picture perfect, other programs (JRiver, Mediaportal, VLC) either couldn't lock or had major distortions.

Silicondust thought it was the antenna at first.  Then they found packet loss and referred me to a document that was a list of several "suspects" that could cause the packet issue.  I went through the list one-by-one - uninstalling the third-party firewall was the last item, of course.  I didn't really think it was Norton - I had used the toolbar menu to disable it early on based on feedback from JRiver.  As noted - disabling it at that level didn't address the issue.  Thank goodness I followed Silicondust's advice to totally un-install and test, or I would still be in the dark.

Thanks for your tips about Norton - I had excluded VLC, JRiver and HDHomerun - but clearly there must be other exclusions that are needed.  I asked the Silicondust people - they replied that they only recommend the Windows firewall.  No advice on Norton.

So what tuner are you using?  HDHomerun on your LAN?  With Norton?  If so, I'll be pestering you for your Norton settings.

Thanks again!

[thane108]

I just had to open port 65001 in Norton - in case anyone else has problems with Norton and HDHomerun.

Not sure what changed that caused the problem - some Norton update? - worked find up to three days ago.

Oh, well - port open, JRiver works, HDHomerun works, Norton is protecting me from the villains.

All is well - for now . . .

[RoderickGI]

Well done, and good of you to share the fix.

I actually use an internal PCIe quad tuner, but I've read enough about HDHomerun tuners on this forum to be dangerous. Plus I've learnt to wrangle Norton a few times, so I know it can be "fixed" when needed.

I never run Norton 360 in Silent mode, so if it sees something new that it wants to block, it puts out a popup message. I always take note of the popup messages, and hence, rarely have an issue with settings. But sometimes I have had to work my way through multiple messages, with reboots or software restarts between, to capture all the issues and allow the traffic I want to allow. Slow and annoying, but it works. I have the patience for it. 

Over the last year there have been a few changes in Norton 360 that have tightened the control it exerts. In particular, the Windows 10 compatible update gave me some new issues, which just weren't there before.

I suspect that even though you open the port in the firewall, it was the intrusion prevention functionality that blocked communication over port 65001. You would notice if you turned off the Firewall, that the "Intrusion and Browser Protection" tab is still active under Firewall>Settings. That would explain why turning off the firewall didn't fix it, and SiliconDust's comment about the driver still running in the background.