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[Marty3d]

I think I like the action window, especially that you finally can view playing now together with playing now and media library.

Is there a chance of being able to view the files in Action Window in another format?

Seq. Song (Artist) isn't really enough. I always view my music like
Seq. Artist - Album - track#- Song

I just noticed, when choosing a playlist in Action window, you just get an image of mc layered upon itself. Is there a way to view the files as well?

/Martin

[knickelfarz]

Seq. Artist - Album - track#- Song

Mmh - I'm not sure about the track# number in the middle and the "-" as a separator... I'm afraid that this will give an untidy look, as there maybe "-" in tags and it's hard to read the duration in the middle.

But I agree that there is a need to customize the columns in the action window. Maybe just an entry in the pulldown together with some subentries may help:


You would be able to select how much columns you want and what they show...

Concerning the separators... I would like to repeat my suggestion for using another symbol as brackets to separate the "non"-columns. There are many tracks that have tags like "SongABC (DJ XYZ Remix)" so the lines in the action window are hard to read sometimes:



Maybe a "dot" and showing the Seq. as a "real" column can give a clearer look:



What do you think?

[Polonio]

Action window is great. I like it. It is a step in the right direction.

However, I would like to see it as a temporary solution. Now, it works. Let's fix all bugs, and let's release a rock solid media center.

Your request makes sense. However, IMO, it does not make sense put it inside the actual Corner Window, ups, i meant Action Window.

Next version (I don't know if MC 9.2 or MC 10), should discard actual Action Window, and should develop a real powerful, goodlooking interface.

I am thinking in knickelfarz GUI:

http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm.

There it make sense to customize columns, or expand functionalities. However, too much work in the actual Action Window could be very time expensive. The actual GUI does not support more staff (I would even supress functionalities).

Next versions, should also consider if actual tree is really necessary. Some people have already said that they do rarely use the tree.

I am not a GUI designer, but I feel a solution without a tree, but with big buttons (or big tabs) mixed with knickelfarz panel should be very very powerful and attractive.

[knickelfarz]

Your request makes sense. However, IMO, it does not make sense put it inside the actual Corner Window, ups, i meant Action Window... However, too much work in the actual Action Window could be very time expensive. The actual GUI does not support more staff (I would even supress functionalities)...

Mmh - To me it makes sense - I don't want to get an eyesore every time I try to read the tags of my house compilations in the action window. Have you tried the action window in windowed mode? With bigger monitors (or if you have two of them) it would even make sense to show everything as "real" columns... think of the DJ thing. I can't say if it would be hard to implement some "dots" or give the Seq. a "real" column, but I think it would be worth spending some time on it because many people will have to live with it for maybe one year or longer...

Concerning split panes - please take a look at this thread  

[Doof]

In the case of the Playing Now window in the Action Window, where you can't sort, what's the point of a Seq column at all?

[Polonio]

Mmh - To me it makes sense - I don't want to get an eyesore every time I try to read the tags of my house compilations in the action window. Have you tried the action window in windowed mode? With bigger monitors (or if you have two of them) it would even make sense to show everything as "real" columns... think of the DJ thing. I can't say if it would be hard to implement some "dots" or give the Seq. a "real" column, but I think it would be worth spending some time on it because many people will have to live with it for maybe one year or longer...

Concerning split panes - please take a look at this thread  

Yes. Real columns make sense in a width enought interface.

And no. I dont think it would be worth spending some time on customazing concatenations, or putting dots in the lists. Look at WMP, they have a playing now list. It just show the track name. Did you ever heard someone wishing to customize it? Ridiculous. The fact is that we, MC crew, are constanly asking for improvements and things. You like "dots", but I will sugest to have an option to put squares or stars...

MC lacks uniformity. We have grids, lists, panels, forms and trees. Now, they introduced a navegable hompage. They introduced a new feeling menu. A reseizable window.  Almost every of these controls are customizables, but they customize different way. Every item offers similar functionality, and every item and subitem have specifics right click options.

Since I pay my house working with computers, I am a power user. I have not much trouble playing with MC. But, now I feel is quite too complex. It is just a jukebox. A very powerful jukebox. A media center, if you wish. But it is not a nuclear reactor, or a flight simulator.  

Simplify the interface in future versions!

I think it is possible with very very litle elements: Powerful and customizables grids, panels, and regular tabs/buttons.

[nila]

I love where the tree is now for Media Library - I love grouping/sub grouping/etc.

I'm not too into having everything else there though just in one big list as it means the other areas/features are disappearing if we open the tree.

The big tabs/buttons on WMP are nice because they're always visible and fixed in position no matter what we're doing.

Some way of having all sections prominant and visible at all times no matter what would be nice.

Possible outlook bar style or DW style

Knick is always showing us up with how great he is at graphics so I figured I'd give it a try - not as nice as his but look at this

http://www.phazeclothing.com/temp/tree.jpg

Each section can be opened or closed and resized independantly so that the Media library for instance getting bigger wont mean the playlists disappear - same as DW. Maybe also a right click option for 'Large Icons' (would be great for CD, DVD & Handhelds)

What'd u all think? how are my photoshop skills? lol

[Polonio]

but I think it would be worth spending some time on it because many people will have to live with it for maybe one year or longer...

One year or longer?

Don't think so. Look the Action Window, they developed it in two weeks. And it is completely new staff. Anything else they developed before for MC is similar to Action Window.

But I feel they could reuse things to develop (and integrate) a more powerful solution. May be, it would cost 3 or 4 months work. But we are patient. Don't we?

We dont know the unconfesed reasons why they developed it so suddenly and quickly. We'll know.

I must insist: Fix bugs first.

[nila]

Oh yeah - and as for customising the 'playing now' window - the answer seems pretty simply - just make it use a field called 'playing now' - make it a calculated field [name] and make it editable.

Before it's touched it'll look exactly as it looks now - if people want they can customise it to show whatever they want - its their call.

The same logic would apply to 'mini-me'

With calculated fields they let people display exactly what they want and it can be set to a default value.

[Polonio]

I love where the tree is now for Media Library - I love grouping/sub grouping/etc.

I dont want the tree abolutely dissapear. I think the tree as a sheme property. Some schemes could be panel-based, and some tree-based.

What I question is the tree as an interface for getting into the different tools MC has (player, organizer, burner, tv, etc). I think we can figure out better solutions for future versions.

I think MC can be divided in two basic parts: In one hand, Media Library (composed of panel-based and tree-based schemes). In the other hand, tools to work with media (player, playlists, burner, ripper, tagging, analysis).

And I think future interface has to center in logically organize all this functionality in a easy (and obvious) fashion.

I am not talking about a radical functional re-design. Media Library is the most important item, and it does not need additional work (may be, just include radio stations, and TV stations as a items inside the library; item that can be organized, tagged, and played...). So all we need is a way to simultaneusly explore the library and work with tools. We can send a song into a tool (right clicking, or clicking in a button), or we can dropped to a panel/window.

There is no need to invent anything. I think I am not talking about a big development, I am talking about deciding between the different interfaces inside the actual interface. One example:

I am a new user, and I want to select some songs and burn a CD. What should I do? Drop the songs into Action Windows? Drop them two the CD writer drive? Send them to that drive? And then, where is the "Rec" button? How do I set options? Where can I check the songs selected?

I didnt burn anything, I have not experience on that. Belive me the answer to previous questions are not obvious.  

[JimH]

I am a new user, and I want to select some songs and burn a CD. What should I do? Drop the songs into Action Windows? Drop them two the CD writer drive? Send them to that drive? And then, where is the "Rec" button? How do I set options? Where can I check the songs selected?

I didnt burn anything, I have not experience on that. Belive me the answer to previous questions are not obvious.  

We know this and will improve it in the next few builds.  Thanks for your ideas.

[jleerigby]

Oh yeah - and as for customising the 'playing now' window - the answer seems pretty simply - just make it use a field called 'playing now' - make it a calculated field [name] and make it editable.

Before it's touched it'll look exactly as it looks now - if people want they can customise it to show whatever they want - its their call.

It's official Nila, you ARE a genius!

Great idea.

[nila]

Thanks thanks I know I know .

Doesn't anyone have any comments about my pic?
Even if you dont like the design - what about just how good my photoshop skills are

I love my little pic.

http://www.phazeclothing.com/temp/tree.jpg

(Click link to see bigger version)

[Polonio]

Doesn't anyone have any comments about my pic?
Even if you dont like the design - what about just how good my photoshop skills are

I love my little pic.

Did anyone tell you you've pretty good photoshop skills?  

Seriously, I know how powerful is DW interface, and MC old tree could be "upgraded" to something similar to your propousal. Thou, I would consider each "Action Window Target" as an independant panel in the menu. IMO, an Outlook interface also could fit allright.

But (now you'll understand what JimH feels when we start complaining...), but, these interfaces look so professional and also they are kinda heavy. Actual MC interface is very very clean. They've always thought on that.

Finally, I've nothing against "professional" looking interfaces, without skins, graphical tabs, and that kind of staff. However, if you are looking that professional and powerfull interface, forget DW or Outlook, you've to look at Visual Studio .NET IDE. I don't know if you've seen it. It's great. You can design a database, code, build a GUI, edit icons, explore the web, and you can do it inside a unique interface. It is fully customizable, dockable and so on. And everything is one (just one) click away.  And it is nice and clean. Nice icons, nice graphical menus, clean tabs, and soft buttons.

If a jukebox (which really has a minimal functionality compared to that) could build something similar (even without kiddy skins), I must confess I would stop using Media Center...  

[nila]

aww,
U like my photoshop skills?

Thanks

I haven't seen the .net IDE - I might have to get hold of a copy just so I can see it.

Outlook cant be that 'heavy' - it's designed for Mr Joe Bloggs.

It could work as outlook where u click the header and that one fully opens - for beginners with users able to resize each pane if they wanted so it didn't take the full screen like DW as they got more advanced

I'm not saying for v9.anything

More for lilke v10/11/12/15 etc

[Stilton]

the .NET IDE inteface for a media organser/player would be the ultimate. I've never considered suggesting it because it would be a complete overhaul of the interface, which I know is not going to happen.

It would be 100% customizable. I imagine it has having loads of windows

- the tree view
- the main view (listing the files in the current view - this could be duplicated as many times, so you could have a view of the playing now, CD burner, and a playlist. These would be in an MDI (multiple document interface), so they could be tiled, cascased etc. Tabs would be used to select the current view, or they could be aligned next to each other)
- the properties window
- a status window (saying what tasks are going on etc). - A playing window (to view the picture/video/audio info).
- The DSP studio
- The top bar
- And even windows like Import could optionally be part of the MDI.

The you could dock, float and customize each of the windows. Dock against the top and the bottom; dock them within each other (so two windows become one, with a tab to go inbetween each one). Dock them next to each other (so two windows share the bottom dock. This is how it works in VS.NET and it's truely beautiful.

Toolbars would be windows themselves, so they could float, dock on the any of the sides, and join up with each other.

This would be the ultimate in customization, yet would be easy for new users. By default, it would have a simplistic design, with only one main window, tree on the left, as it's set up now. More could be opened from the Windows menu. You could customize different views for different jobs - a window for general playing, a window for tagging where the properties window takes up a large part of the real-estate.

Anyway, that's a dream that is likely never to happen. But if such a program existed - combining this interface with the amazing power of Media Center, it would be by far the most impressive peice of kit every designed.

[Stilton]

To an idea of what I'm talking about, this company have a control to use for .NET developed programs which give the kind of interface I'm talking about.

http://www.codejock.com/products/suite/

For complex programs like Media Center, this is by far the best way of arranging the software.

[knickelfarz]

In the case of the Playing Now window in the Action Window, where you can't sort, what's the point of a Seq column at all?

It's just about making lists (not only Playing Now) in the action window clearer, easier to read. I'm not asking for sorting stuff by column headers. It's quite enough that you are able to drag items in the list. I just mentioned that it could make sense to show "real" columns (but without headers...) even for Artist/Song - but only if the action window is in windowed mode. Just because it would be easier to read.

-----

And I'm not asking for squares or stars or little cat heads. It's just a simple request about aesthetics. Maybe someone has better ideas how to manage it. But maybe I'm just too far hooked on that, it's somehow ridiculous to ask for it and - huh - will keep JRiver from getting out bugs. And right know, there is much more need for telling JRiver how they should devide their development time and how features from software development kits could be integrated to MC.

So please forget about my request and sorry for posting it in the wrong thread.

[Doof]

For me, a simple Artist - Name listing would be fine.

If they really wanted to make it customizable for the user, Nila's idea of the calculated field is a good one. I already have a Playing Now field that I use that is a simple Artist - Name. It works well. They could even leave it as is for the default, and just leave it as some undocumented hack for those that are really into that level customization. It wouldn't be the first time.

The MRU reghack comes to mind, for instance.

[nila]

Calculated fields are an AMAZING feature that I'm sooooo glad was added. They give MC an unpresidented level of power that no other jukebox can match

They're soo useful and can be used for all kinds of tricks