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[JimH]

"Microsoft is bowing out of building its own phones for consumers. After dramatically scaling back its Lumia devices last year, Microsoft hammered the final nail in the coffin today with an additional $950 million write off and 1,850 more job losses. Microsoft's Lumia devices still account for more than 95 percent of all Windows phones sold, but a lack of new devices means sales and Windows Phone market share have declined sharply over the past year. Windows Phone is dead, and phone makers aren't interested in reviving it. "

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11767200/microsoft-mobile-past-and-future

[blgentry]

I don't know why I care but...

Good riddance.

Brian.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, I don't care either, good riddance.

[cncb]

This is sad.  The lack of apps is frustrating, but I really prefer the Windows Phone UI.

[KingSparta]

I have been without a cell phone since 2010

[RoderickGI]

That is extremely annoying. I have been waiting for them to wake up and finally do something with Windows Phone, properly.

I don't like or want the locked down, tied to iTunes, iOS iPhone that I am using. I hate not being able to transfer files simply.

I also don't want yet another OS to deal with, in Android, and its many flavours and failings, which seem to be as common as its successes.

Stupid Microsoft. They could still own the world, and they just keep mucking it up, again, and again, and again. . .

[syndromeofadown]

Well this doesn't bode well for getting Gizmo on my phone.
Not too long ago I got a Lumia 950XL and it's the best phone I have ever used.
I'm sure some form of Windows Phone will limp along and I will be happy to use to it. (Likely a small windows tablet with phone capabilities).
Strange time for the news as I pretty sure I now know more people with Windows Phones than any other OS.
(Blackberry lost popularity when they went full touch instead of keyboards).

[Awesome Donkey]

Well this doesn't bode well for getting Gizmo on my phone.

Well, to be fair the likelihood that Gizmo would be ported to Windows Phone would of been slim to none.

The biggest issue with Windows Phone, in my opinion, is the lack of interest from developers to port their iOS and Android apps to the UMP format. Ditching Project Astoria, in my opinion, was a big mistake.

[jachin99]

I actually had one of these, and I really liked the UI, and concept but it was the worst phone I ever owned.  I got it because it was the second cheapest phone they had, and I wasn't ready to commit to a new expensive IPhone, or Android phone.  The best thing about the phone was that it was drop proof.  I dropped it at least once a day, and it still worked about the same.  I almost got the 950XL but I figured it would go nowhere and got a G4.  Too bad its gone forever because I think it had potential.

[blgentry]

I don't like or want the locked down, tied to iTunes, iOS iPhone that I am using. I hate not being able to transfer files simply.

I also don't want yet another OS to deal with, in Android, and its many flavours and failings, which seem to be as common as its successes.

Android is really pretty solid.  The main difference, in initial user experience, between iphone and android is that android doesn't have the "integrated" look and feel that IOS does.  The UI commonalities, and the way that apps work together (out of the box) is superior on IOS.  But that doesn't mean that Android is buggy, unstable, or bad to use.  It's just different and not as slick overall.  Yet it can do lots of things that IOS devices can't do.

I spent about 3 weeks doing various customizations to my android phone when I first got it.  Because I could.  Not because it was a total necessity.  If you want a more "open" platform, you couldn't ask for a lot better than Android.  File transfer is easy.  You can even do it wirelessly (with AirDroid).  There are many options for media players on Android.  I've recently been using a few of them and they are really pretty good.

I'm not sure what you want from a smartphone, but if you're unhappy with the locked walled garden of the iphone, you might be pleasantly surprised by android.

Brian.

[JimH]

I second that.  We use mainly Android phones and tablets here.

[RoderickGI]

I'm not sure what you want from a smartphone,

What I wanted was (is) to have the one environment on all my devices, phone, tablet, Desktop computer, with the data shared and integrated. Basically what Microsoft was offering.

I guess I am going to have to look into the Android integration Microsoft has done. See if it satisfies. I think Microsoft should have stuck this out though, and long term it would be successful, if they actually did it right. Which they can't seem to do lately. To much short term, share price and bonus driven, decisions. Dropping the Windows Phone lets the wedge into their business. How can they be the IoT if they don't even have a phone, a device that is sitting in everyone's pocket and immediately available as a connected device controller (door opener, lighting & air conditioning controller, alarm manager, etc.), payment processor, photo/video sharing tool, social media device, text and messaging device, . . . and a phone?

I used to work for Kodak. "Too big to fail." Until they did, because they couldn't see the writing on the wall. They didn't understand their market any more, and didn't think digital, even poor quality digital, would overtake film so fast. I got out before the rot set in, once I understood their timeline for film to remain the dominant image technology. Then watched them crumble and burn their assets.

I think this could be real start to the end of Microsoft. It took 20 years at Kodak, 10 to kill their market, 10 to completely kill the business. We shall see how much longer it takes for Microsoft.

[RoderickGI]

I second that.  We use mainly Android phones and tablets here.

By the way that is part of the problem. I like the Surface products. But why would I have a Windows tablet if I have an Android phone? Especially if both integrate well with my Windows Android Desktop.

[imugli]

I think this could be real start to the end of Microsoft. It took 20 years at Kodak, 10 to kill their market, 10 to completely kill the business. We shall see how much longer it takes for Microsoft.

Microsoft's core business is quickly moving to the cloud and platform agnostic apps - Azure, Office365 etc. - as opposed to the operating environment itself. 

[blgentry]

What I wanted was (is) to have the one environment on all my devices, phone, tablet, Desktop computer, with the data shared and integrated. Basically what Microsoft was offering.

I always wonder what people mean when they say this.  For the few I've talked to, it means that they live and die by Microsoft Office and Outlook.  ...and that they want Office and Outlook integration with their mobile devices.

Maybe I've got your requirements all wrong, because I'm just guessing based on past experience.

Brian.

[blgentry]

By the way that is part of the problem. I like the Surface products. But why would I have a Windows tablet if I have an Android phone?

I guess I'm starting to show my inherent bias against anything made by Microsoft.  But really, why *would* you want a windows based tablet?  The numbers seem to speak for most people's opinions on them.

I'm trying to not rant here.  I just have a very different perspective on computing than I think you do.  So I'll stop commenting now. 

Brian.

[mwillems]

I guess I'm starting to show my inherent bias against anything made by Microsoft.  But really, why *would* you want a windows based tablet?  The numbers seem to speak for most people's opinions on them.

I'm trying to not rant here.  I just have a very different perspective on computing than I think you do.  So I'll stop commenting now.  

Brian.

I've got a Surface Pro 4.  It's a really nice device, and it's probably my favorite computer-type device I've ever owned. It's a little more laptop-replacement-that-happens-to-also-be-a-tablet than a tablet-tablet.  Which is just fine by me, that's a big part of what I like about it.  If you think about it as an i7 laptop that weighs about 2 pounds, but you can pull the keyboard off and use it as a one and a half pound e-reader to read a book, it starts to seem a little neater.  Add in the nice-to-haves like a top-notch digital pen so you can do markup directly on .pdf documents and a facial recognition camera and it adds up to a pretty slick little tablet.  And the sales show it; the surface line is one of the only consumer facing market segments at microsoft that's actually growing (they couldn't keep up with demand). 

The Microsoft apps I could care less about, I just wanted a fast x86 tablet with a detachable keyboard.  I dual-boot linux on it.  Currently the touchscreen, pens, and camera aren't working on linux, so it's basically just a laptop on the Linux side, but as soon as the linux touchscreen drivers are up to snuff, I'll probably blow away the windows partition.  But the hardware is amazing.

[RoderickGI]

I'm similar to mwillems, except I'm not interested in putting Linux on a Surface Pro, at least at this time.

I have more of a business background to my usage, with security being important, and I use a range of applications, which is why I haven't moved to a Windows Phone up to now, and probably never will now.

I would use a Surface Pro for Messaging, eMail, Browsing, Banking, Photography including transfers/backup/reviewing/editing/annotating/uploading/sharing, all the Business applications (yes, Office and Outlook), as a 4WD mapping tool while travelling (I would have loved a Surface Pro mounted in my 4WD while touring around Australia. Touch screen goodness, capacity, connectivity.), Videography (last motorcycle trip with about a dozen friends we had 22 HD cameras on the bikes, recording all the time, which needed gigabytes of video downloaded each night. The Surface Pro with attached storage would be perfect. We collected over 1200 hours of video which took a year to distil down to a 2 hour video memory.), Entertainment of all sort especially eBooks, etc.

Basically, a Surface Pro would be a laptop replacement for me, and give me desktop functionality wherever I was, if required.

Most of that I could do on an iDevice (not sure about 4WD mapping software), but I do not like Apple's locked down OS and lack of expansion options (a simple SD card reader built in? A USB port that works with a USB hub? Copy files to an iPad without tying them to iPhoto, just stored on the drive?) at all.

I haven't checked for Android equivalents to do everything I want. Maybe that would be possible.

But I actually know how to make Windows work for me, and I own applications that run on Windows. So yes, a Windows tablet makes a lot of sense.

Microsoft's core business is quickly moving to the cloud and platform agnostic apps - Azure, Office365 etc. - as opposed to the operating environment itself. 

Unfortunately I tend to do stuff in remote locations, on the move, where Cloud services don't make sense. But storing and sharing stuff via the Cloud at discrete intervals does. Therefore I'm not a fan of relying on always being connected.

[glynor]

I've got a Surface Pro 4.  It's a really nice device, and it's probably my favorite computer-type device I've ever owned. It's a little more laptop-replacement-that-happens-to-also-be-a-tablet than a tablet-tablet.

I don't own one personally, but we issue Surface Pro 4s at work (and we did some of the non-Pro 3s but they're all backordered/discontinued now). I've played with them quite a bit.

They're nice laptops that happen to work in a tablet mode. I like them a lot.

They aren't really tablets like an iPad at all though. They're much bigger and heavier, have fans, and have about 1/3rd the battery life of the last couple 9.7" iPads. But, more importantly, the OS still isn't really tablet-use friendly. When I take them with me, you cannot take them without having the keyboard and/or a pointing device of some kind with you. Yes, you can do some things in the full-screen Metro environment, but you get kicked back to "tiny target, small fonts, etc" mode way too frequently if you try to do anything "real" with them.

For me, they might serve if you aren't really a "tablet user". If you would almost always prefer a laptop, but like to watch movies and browse the web occasionally in tablet mode, they can do that pretty well (though the battery life is rough). But if you're like me and you use your iPad every day? They don't really compete in the same space.

[mwillems]

I don't own one personally, but we issue Surface Pro 4s at work (and we did some of the non-Pro 3s but they're all backordered/discontinued now). I've played with them quite a bit.

They're nice laptops that happen to work in a tablet mode. I like them a lot.

They aren't really tablets like an iPad at all though. They're much bigger and heavier, have fans, and have about 1/3rd the battery life of the last couple 9.7" iPads. But, more importantly, the OS still isn't really tablet-use friendly. When I take them with me, you cannot take them without having the keyboard and/or a pointing device of some kind with you. Yes, you can do some things in the full-screen Metro environment, but you get kicked back to "tiny target, small fonts, etc" mode way too frequently if you try to do anything "real" with them.

For me, they might serve if you aren't really a "tablet user". If you would almost always prefer a laptop, but like to watch movies and browse the web occasionally in tablet mode, they can do that pretty well (though the battery life is rough). But if you're like me and you use your iPad every day? They don't really compete in the same space.

My main "tablet" use cases are 1) using the device as an e-reader and or .pdf markup tool, 2) media controller at work, and 3) touch gaming.  For those use cases I really like how it works as a tablet, but I know what you mean about the mixed UI issues. It is especially excellent for reading or document review: it's the first tablet I've ever interacted with that can display .pdfs with lots of graphical content at a readable/usable size (think detailed maps, full-page scans of documents, or gaming manuals), so the larger screen size is actually a huge bonus for me (and makes markup easier).  I do take the keyboard cover with me wherever I go (it is a cover for the screen after all), but I would say that 50% of my use is with the cover removed. It works great for my cases (reading, theater view in touch mode, hearthstone, etc.).  You're right that the battery life is more like a laptop battery life in many cases, but if you do a few simple tweaks you can increase the battery life by about 50%.  Post tweak, if I don't use it for gaming I can easily get as much battery life out of it as my wife's Samsung Galaxy Note 10.  For example; if I'm just reading ebooks or pdfs or browsing the web at a reasonable screen brightness I can easily get seven hours of use (or more).  But throw in video watching for any length of time and it's closer to 5 (which is comparable to some android tablets). If I do any gaming, though, that's where it can't really compete with conventional tablets, the battery like plummets dramatically.  

So I mostly agree with you, but I do use mine everyday as a tablet and It's perfect for what I need it to do; in my Amazon review, my conclusion was that if you want a really nice laptop that also works as a pretty good tablet it's a knock-out device.  If you want something like an ipad or an android tablet, you're barking up the wrong tree, primarily because the apps just aren't there.  Oh and they do make a fanless version for the lower power processor, but you can configure the larger ones so the fans never kick on unless you're doing something fairly intense.  

One bias that I should identify: I have large hands/fingers so I can't really even type/navigate web pages on my android phone without a stylus (god bless samsung for the note line of phones!), so that may be part of why I'm more forgiving of having to use the type cover and or pen for navigation occasionally. For me navigating a touchscreen just means I'm using a stylus sometimes, so it doesn't even register, if that makes sense. If anything the Surface is more touch friendly (to me) because with the large screen even most of the small targets are (in terms of absolute, not relative, size) larger than some of the targets on my phone.  

If microsoft made a "surface" phone (i.e. a phone that was just running full desktop windows 10 in tablet mode) with a stylus, I would probably buy one.