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Author Topic: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?  (Read 9214 times)

FenceFurniture

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Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« on: June 06, 2016, 05:32:32 am »

I've noticed little skips (1/10 of a second a less) when playing music from a computer. Doesn't seem to matter if I;m playing a cd direct or a ripped version (flac or MP3).

I don't think it's due to either the bluetooth headphones or bt speaker because I noticed it happening on my previous laptop with corded headphones.

But equally I don't think it's the ripping process (dBpoweramp) - surely a file is a file.

The CDs are all in good nick. Just played a ripped album now (flac) and there were quite a few little skips or stutters (single ocurrence stutters). Checked the CD and it's fine. It's like a really quick drop in the volume for a tenth of a second.
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 06:15:22 am »

A little more info now:
just had a little skip at 2 mins 30 so a went back a bit and it didn't happen again. That tells me it's not the ripping process.

Should I maybe increase the buffering? Currently set to 250 ms.
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JimH

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 06:54:55 am »

Are you using antivirus software?

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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 08:35:45 am »

Malwarebytes, which only runs on demand and isn't really AV, and Windows Defender.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 09:06:01 am »

Try increasing the buffer, yes.
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JimH

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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 12:30:43 pm »

Thanks chaps.

Ok, I've done Jim's exclusions, and put it up to 500ms buffering and playing a few tracks just now - still getting the skips but when replaying the same spot it's ok.

FWIW, this is a fairly high spec brand new machine: 16Gb RAM, 512Gb SSD C drive (which is where the music is stored), i7 processor so it surely can't be machine performance.

Would "Play from Memory" help perhaps? Although I know the SSD is very fast (copied the Music folder of 130Gb from one SSD to another in 9 minutes).
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JimH

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2016, 12:41:35 pm »

I know  you said that Bluetooth didn't seem like it could be a problem, but can you test that by playing to something else?
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 07:02:34 pm »

Ok, played a couple of tracks through the monitor speakers without any problem, but it's not conclusive. I just repeated one of the tracks with the headphones and it was ok there too.

Just to get the playing field levelled I'll close everything down, and restart the computer. Won't have any results for a while as I have other things to do today, so later on.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 02:34:32 am »

It looks like you have just purchased MC. Have all your audio files finished being analysed?

Take a look at Help>System Info>Background tools running, and search for information on Auto-Import and Audio Analysis.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 02:45:27 am »

Yes I have just purchased, so we can add being a newbie to being ahem, somewhat technically challenged with this kind of stuff. ::)

I'll have a look at that, thanks.
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 03:13:37 am »

Ok, so under Background Tools Running it says "No tools currently running" and underAuto-Import all three boxes were already checked, and I've just now added the folder C:\2. MUSIC under "Add folders you would like the Program to watch (but I'm not sure what that means). That is the only location I keep music (it's been created as a Music folder in Win 10 so should have the same attributes as the normal My Music or whatever).

On the same pane should I check "Analyse audio for audio files"?


Maybe I'm using MC in a naive way in these early days - I either just select the files in the folder and drag them to "Playing Now" or maybe just double click on it if I'm only after one track (mind  ;D). I haven't really built many playlists yet, mainly because I've been so out of touch with my music for so long. Still going through listing tracks I like etc, for which I'm using Excel to keep a record.

One thing I find frustrating is that when I drag files over it always rearranges the order and I have to manually sort them back into track # order.
There must be a solution to that?

When I put Audio Analysis into the search box, it brings up "Showing files etc etc" but no files are shown. Now I may be technically challenged but I'm betting that no files have been analysed. But there is no more info offered on what my choices of action are......

I must say that MC looks like an enormously capable program, and is therefore a bit overwhelming. Maybe I missed a pointer to a tutorial or something during the install (and I've had a severe overload of new tech just recently - just come from XP/Office 03 to Win 10/2016 and me head is spinning - two weeks just writing scripts etc for the ribbon which I need heavily customised and it's SOooo much more complicated in Win 10).

In other words, you can correctly assume that I am the Sgt Schultz of MC and any other Media player.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 05:35:22 am »

 :D :D  My reference to your recent purchase wasn't meant to indicate anything about your abilities FenceFurniture. Only that Audio Analysis can take some time to complete if you have a large collection, so it may still be running, and hence loading up the CPU and causing skips.

Newbies are welcome to ask any questions.

Unfortunately I can't go through all that last post just now, and there is a lot to respond to. You will love MC's power once you get up to speed, but it can be used simply.

Actually I wrote that last post with one hand and a small dog sitting on my chest, so I didn't really do it justice. When I said "search for information on Auto-Import and Audio Analysis" I meant within the Forum and the MC Wiki, rather than in the MC software. You will find some good information in both the Forum and Wiki.

I'll get back to this tomorrow if no-one else comes along and answers your question or comments on your issues.

Have fun.  8)
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 05:56:17 am »

:D :D  My reference to your recent purchase wasn't meant to indicate anything about your abilities FenceFurniture.
No worries, and understood - but if you had, you wouldn't have been wrong  :D

Yes, I have the same problem with a procession of cats, and it buggers up the typing royally.

Will check the forum on Audio Analysis. In the mean time I notice that since I added the music folder to those to be watched, all the album covers come up in MC, so it's done at least something. However, listening to INXS just now the skips were still there. The whole music folder is 130Gb, so maybe it's still ticking away in the background, although I wouldn't have thought that just watching the folder would trigger the analysis.
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 06:14:28 am »

Hmmmm. MC is now locked up, and not responding. Says if i close it might lose some changes (I've just been through and renamed a whole bunch of genres so I definitely don't want to do that again). No idea why it seized up. If it was ticking away in the background I'd expect it to be using some resources, but Task Manager says 0 disk, 1.1 to 1.2Mb of memory (16Gb available) and between 0 and 0.1% of CPU (i7 4x core)

Would it be safe to end it through Task Manager and restart it?
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 06:46:39 am »

When it looks like MC has frozen, be sure to wait at least a couple of minutes. Sometimes MC is working in the background and it becomes unresponsive (it would be nice to have a "working" popup message so you know it's working).

Also when you shut down MC, it does some backend cleaning after it closes, so give it a minute or two before restarting or you might get the "MC is already running" message.

Maybe I missed this part - Are you using a built-in or on-board Sound Card (or external DAC or what)?
Are you using WASAPI or Direct Sound or something else (Tools>Options>Audio>High Definition Audio Device)?
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2016, 08:28:01 am »

Well I've left it for 90 minutes and it's still locked so I'll terminate it.

Built in or on-board? Uhh, the puta came with a sound card - that's what's being used. Sorry, no further knowledge.

Using WASAPI.

Had a look in Godmode and Device manager to try to see what the sound card is, but the best I can offer (which probably tells nothing) is
Intel(R) Display Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio

If it helps, and I doubt it, the laptop sspeaker are Harman Kardon (not to be confused with the HK external Bluetooth speaker)
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JimH

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2016, 08:52:38 am »

What version are you using?

21.0.86 is here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=105266.0
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2016, 08:57:03 am »

I assumed I must have had the latest (only downloaded a few weeks ago) but I have 21.0.83 so I'll update that.
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2016, 09:04:19 am »

Thanks to all for the help today. Time to inspect the interior of my eyelids (it's midnight here in Oz) so I'll do some more testing tomorrow (this evening USA time).
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hlesser

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 06:55:14 pm »

I had fairly rare skips and read similar threads to try to eliminate them. They got slightly better. The real solution was an upgrade to Win 10 from Win 7 with ongoing use of Sophos antivirus. Gone!!  If you haven't tried this I can highly recommend it.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 09:09:15 pm »

Oh man. I wrote a reply to all your points FenceFurniture, and the forum software lost it all when it decided an attached image was too large! Normally I copy my posts before trying to actually post them, but this time I didn't.  >:(  >:(  >:(

Well, I'm not going to rewrite it just now. I'll come back.

Try this though. Go to the top menu, Player>Shuffle>Shuffle Off. That may stop your tracks being resorted when you add them to Playing Now.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 10:13:28 pm »

Ok, shuffle was already off.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2016, 09:24:13 pm »

A few more quick notes.

First, I'm an Aussie also, so at least we are on the same time zone. Well, probably. I'm in Melbourne.


Ok, so under Background Tools Running it says "No tools currently running" and underAuto-Import all three boxes were already checked, and I've just now added the folder C:\2. MUSIC under "Add folders you would like the Program to watch (but I'm not sure what that means).
That means MC will watch for any files changes in that folder and any other folder below it. It uses "File Events" from Windows, so it should pick up changes immediately. If not, it will check every two hours anyway.

I assume that as you didn't have that folder listed in Auto-Import, that MC just searched your whole computer for all your files when you installed it, and picked up everything it found. On a new installation MC does that (searches everywhere) after a 45 seconds countdown unless you cancel it. While letting it do that is fine for some, MC won't pick up future changes unless the folder is listed in Auto-Import.

You should definitely have that folder in Auto-Import, and I advise checking all the check boxes at the bottom of the Auto-Import configuration, and set the "Fix broken links" to "Yes (protect files on missing drives)"

Also, select the folder you have added, click the edit button, and check the file types that will be looked for. Change as necessary. I think MC search for all Audio, Video, and Image files by default. You may want to change the to just Audio files for your "C:\2. MUSIC" folder.

Once that is done, run Auto-Import again, and it will probably do more work.

That is the only location I keep music (it's been created as a Music folder in Win 10 so should have the same attributes as the normal My Music or whatever).
MC doesn't need or care that the folder is created as a Music folder in Windows. It does a better job of classifying music than Windows does without that setting. But that will help when you are using Windows Explorer.

On the same pane should I check "Analyse audio for audio files"?
Yes. As above, check all the items in Auto-Import configuration. At least that is what I do. There is a Wiki article on Auto-Import which explains the settings.

Maybe I'm using MC in a naive way in these early days - I either just select the files in the folder and drag them to "Playing Now" or maybe just double click on it if I'm only after one track (mind  ;D). I haven't really built many playlists yet, mainly because I've been so out of touch with my music for so long. Still going through listing tracks I like etc, for which I'm using Excel to keep a record.
Yeah you need to start using Standard View in MC and the Album and Artist views to get a better understanding of what it can do for you. If you can use Excel, you can learn to use MC, and it will do a far better job than Excel.

Research the Rating tag in MC, as a way to identify tracks you like. Give the good tracks a high rating, then you can easily search for and display those tracks. Research the Search function, which uses the field near the top right corner of Standard View.

One thing I find frustrating is that when I drag files over it always rearranges the order and I have to manually sort them back into track # order.
There must be a solution to that?
If you are viewing the Album view in MC, and you drag and drop an album into "Playing Now", MC will retain the sequence. The same if you select multiple files/tracks and drag and drop them. The sequence used is whatever sequence they are in from the source where you drag them from. Once they are in "Playing Now" they are sorted by the sequence in which they are added, but you can resort them but Shuffling, or clicking on the column headers.

Also, try hovering your mouse over things in MC, and left clicking and right clicking on them. You will find lots more functionality.

For example, if you select an Album, or a few tracks, then right click on them, you will see the option "More Play Options", within which are a whole lot of different ways to add music to "Playing Now".

You can also Sort any View as you wish, by clicking the column headers, or using the Sort function shown in the attached image.

If Shuffle was off and tracks don't retain their sort sequence when you drag and drop files, it is probably because you are dragging from Windows Explorer, or the sort sequence was not by track in MC.

When I put Audio Analysis into the search box, it brings up "Showing files etc etc" but no files are shown. Now I may be technically challenged but I'm betting that no files have been analysed. But there is no more info offered on what my choices of action are......

As above, I meant to search the Wiki and Forum. But also, if there are values in the "Volume Level (R128)", "Volume Level (ReplayGain)", "Peak Level (R128), "Peak Level (Sample)", "Dynamic Range (R128)", "Dynamic Range (DR)", and "BPM" tags, then audio has been analysed for the selected file.

I must say that MC looks like an enormously capable program, and is therefore a bit overwhelming. Maybe I missed a pointer to a tutorial or something during the install (and I've had a severe overload of new tech just recently - just come from XP/Office 03 to Win 10/2016 and me head is spinning - two weeks just writing scripts etc for the ribbon which I need heavily customised and it's SOooo much more complicated in Win 10).

In other words, you can correctly assume that I am the Sgt Schultz of MC and any other Media player.

You'll love MC when you get the hang of it. Read lots in the Wiki and Forum. If you can't find answers, ask in the forum, as you have now.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2016, 11:42:15 pm »

Wow, thanks for such a detailed reply Roderick. Yes, same time zone - I'm near Sydney.

I don't think anything had been analysed. I did the whole folder yesterday, so that's done now. Took about an hour or something.

And yes, I was dragging and dropping from the Windows folder.

Ok, I've got some more things to tweak then. Thanks again.
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2016, 02:59:56 am »

Damn, I've done something stoopid which I didn't really need to do anyway. I have a duplicate of the flac folder in MP3 (separate master folder) and I told MC to watch it. That means whenever I select an album it comes up with each track in duplicate (one for flac and one for MP3). I removed that folder (MP3) from the watch list but the duplicates are still there. Closed and restarted MC - still there, as expected.

I didn't need to do it because the MP3 files are just for export to a portable player when I get roundtuit.

Is there an easy way out?
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FenceFurniture

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2016, 03:03:55 am »

Hold the phone - I managed to fix it by deleting all the MP3 files from the library.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Tiny skips or blank spots - what causes them?
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2016, 03:26:01 am »

Yep, deleting them just from the library will do it. Do note however that MC keeps a track of what has been removed from the library, so if you ever want to import that folder again, MC won't do it. There is a fix, which I won't go into now, but just be aware of that.

Also do some research on synchronising to handheld devices when you get time. That function will allow you to create MP3 versions of your FLAC files on demand, for use either anywhere you want, including on a Handheld device. There is an audio/video conversion function as well that will do the same, but the Handheld device is neat, in that it will synchronise to a Device or folder on your PC, and do the conversions you define. Plus it will keep a separate cache of converted files if you want, to save time if you want to use those tracks on a Handheld again. So basically you don't need to have FLAC and MP3 versions of files, although you can if you wish.

Also, if you do have basically identical FLAC and MP3 versions of files that you want to keep in the library, you can do what is called Stacking, where the two files are associated with each other, shown as one track, and you can pick which version is "on top" and therefore played when you select Track to be played in MC.

As you said earlier, there is a lot to MC, and a lot of ways to use it. Plenty to explorer. Crawl first, then walk, then jog, then run, then sprint.  :D  8)
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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