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[Denti]

I can't get the semi-colon delimiter - ; - to work (create lists) in Theater View "expression to display."

I use the ; for multiple artists and instead of outputting a list, I just get a line of artist names separated by ;
even when I add &DataType=[list] to the end of the expression.

Is there a reason it won't work in the expressions for display?

[Denti]

Anyone?

[Denti]

[deleted]

[Hendrik]

Unswap doesn't care about the datatype, it just splits by semi-colon and then un-swaps the pairs, then re-assembles the list.

I created two field in a test library, [All Artists (Last Name)] as a List field, and [All Artists Unswap Test] as a Calculated field using your given expression, and the result is perfectly fine.
Sounds to me like you are using an old build or something otherwise funky.

[Denti]

So how about getting it to work in "expression to display"?

[Denti]

So, again, is it possible to get the ; to create lists in the display areas (Expression to display; thumbnail display expression; Theater View expression to display)?

[Denti]

One more try: anyone?

[Arindelle]

hey I'm rooting for you Denti.  Want the same thing ... parsing on the semi-colon so that they are treated as multiple entries not one text string. Really busy, and its not an easy fix I fear but I'm trying to figure out a bunch of changes that might make it interesting to look at the three modes. To get what we want, but at the same time make it better to a majority of users (euh everything is TV, video and automatic couch potato stuff these days  ... have to motivate them to switch gears  )

As you know there is a bandaid in standard view to make it work, but expression to display in theater or remote views IMHO does not ... or it does not respect the separator for parsing rather --- it takes it as part of text string.

@Hendrick yes of course you can but you want the "list" to split like the Artist or Genre field in Theater View does "magically". Matt's revised swap function includes the separator but its not going to split Coltrane, John; Davies, Miles then sort on both but show John Colrane (sorted on C) and Miles Davis (sorted on D). You do not NOT want  John Coltrane; Miles Davis after the unswap showing up. Both should show treated as a separate Artist or Album Artist, with the common albums listed under both

Anyway you have my +1 Denti

[Denti]

Thanks for the support! I would think getting the ; do its work in expressions everywhere would be easy...

[Denti]

So I was going to start duplicating the files for albums with multiple artists in order to "bypass" this problem. But of course, this doesn't help, because for each duplicate I have to remove one or more artists, which I don't want to do. So I decided to put the "missing" artists in the title (e.g., "with Artist2"), but that's a pain.

[Denti]

PLEASE, please, please!
This really can't be THAT hard to address, can it?

[blgentry]

I can't figure out exact what you're trying to do.

But I was able to use Thumbnail Text to show all of the artists in my [Artist] field.  I just did:

replace([Artist],;,- - )
[Album]

This is just an example to prove that it works.  You could obviously re-format it to work more to your liking.

Brian.

[JimH]

Did you try putting a \ (backslash) in front of the semicolon?

[Dawgincontrol]

Is this what you're looking for??  I did an Individual Artists Header with help:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89899.msg617559#msg617559

[Denti]

Thanks guys!

I'm looking to

1. Sort by Last Name first

2. Display by First Name first

3. Use multiple artists for albums with the ; delimiter

4. display in JRemote / Theater View

I can do 1, 2, and 4.
I can do 1, 3, and 4.
I can do 2, 3, and 4.

But I cannot do all four together.

Where would I put the backslash? In the artist name category?

[Denti]

Did you try putting a \ (backslash) in front of the semicolon?

This gets me the closest I've ever been!
All artists' names are displayed correctly and sorted correctly EXCEPT where I'm using a ; : in these cases the artist's name remains LAST NAME first, even when I use the Unswap() expression.

[Denti]

Never mind!

Here's what happens.

I use [All Artists (Last Name)] for last name sorting. Example:

[All Artists (Last Name)] = Adderley, Nat\; Montgomery, Wes

Sorting works fine for both artists. Display does not.

Using Unswap([All Artists (Last Name)])

I get a mess, depending on whether the artist has other albums with other artists or not.

I get

Adderly, Nat   (for that artist)

and for Wes Montgomery I get

Cannonball/ Adderly; Wes Montgomery

(note that this is because I also have an album with artists "Cannonball Adderly; Wes Montgomery")

[JimH]

You might be able to do a find and replace on the whole artist name if it's just a few exceptions.

[Denti]

You might be able to do a find and replace on the whole artist name if it's just a few exceptions.

Can you explain this. I didn't know you could make "exceptions" in display.

[Denti]

Here are just a few of the MANY threads in which I've pleaded for an answer. Each approaches the problem differently, since I see various possible solutions. None solves the problem.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101338.msg705740#msg705740

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101820.msg706441#msg706441

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97418.0

[Denti]

I'm fighting this battle on several fronts. See
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=105472.0
for another solution to the larger problem.

But if we want to stick with the specifics of this thread, then I'd like to suggest there is a bug. Using ; with Unswap() means that the actual functionality of the ; is eliminated. To keep that functionality by adding the / (backslash) creates a different set of problems: it renders the Unswap() function useless and it confuses the second or third artist in the list, not outputting the name properly.

I would love to have these bugs fixed.

[JimH]

I'm not sure there are any bugs.  Your use cases may just be unusual.

While you wait for answers, please be patient.

[Denti]

I'm not sure there are any bugs.  Your use cases may just be unusual.

While you wait for answers, please be patient.

Thanks. I'll test it out in different ways and see what I get. If there's any more information you need please let me know.

EDIT: I just tested with three records, each with multiple artists. I stripped away all other expressions I use. Just a simple data set. I'm happy to share this if it helps. I'm pretty sure there are bugs here, though, because I cannot get Unswap() to work with ; ...

I still think the simplest solution is to create a field that does what [Name] does in Standard View (i.e., not output Name, but the processed category level).

[Denti]

I'll provide some screen shots to explain the problem/bug better.

Here's a small sample of five albums with multiple artists. This is how they should appear, sorted by last name, displayed with last name second:



But you can only do this in Standard View, because of the unusual [Name] function, which can be "swapped" to output the right names in the right way, all parsed with the delimiter ;



This is unfortunately not possible in Theater View, where [Name] does not function the same way. Simple solution: create a new category field for Theater View that does what [Name] does in Standard View.

That's not the bug. The bug is that ; cannot be parsed to output a list in Theater View display. With this expression:



I get this:



So: if this bug were fixed all would be well.

Note that adding \ (backslash) before the semicolon creates strange results:



So there you have a second bug of sorts. It appears that what precedes the \; is parsed, but not given as "first name last name." The Unswap() function does nothing to rectify this. And what follows the \; is definitely not processed properly.

[Denti]

I'm getting closer! but there's still a bug. If I add the \ (backslash) after the second artist, like this:



I get a nice clean result. Except that the names are reversed, no matter what I put in the "Expression to Display." Here I've put [Artist] there, but note that even Unswap([All Artists (Last Name)]) also results in the same thing:

[ EDIT: I just realized that all this gets me no further than leaving every as is (no backslashes) and nothing in Expression to Display. So it's gotten me nowhere. ]



So I see three possible solutions:

1) Create a category field that does in Theater View what [Name] does in Standard View

2) Allow ; to output lists in the "Expression to Display" area

3) Fix whatever is going on in "Expression to Display" in this last case, where nothing input there works.

[Denti]

Some more observations (for Theater View):

1) adding the \ (backslash) before the ; to any [Artist] renders the "Expression to Display" useless (i.e., it doesn't matter what you put there, what is displayed is the same as the sort field)

2) using any custom field to Sort renders the "Expression to Display" useless

3) ; delimiter does not work in "Expression to Display," with or without &datatype=

added to the expression

4) using a non-custom field for sorting to activate "Expression to Display": adding the \ (backslash) before the ; renders the Unswap() function useless


Man, if ANY of these would be addressed I could come up with some kind of workaround, but I just seem to be stumped at every level. Jim H, I'm grateful for any help, and I *am* patient, but please remember that I've been asking for this for going on two years now!

[RoderickGI]

This may make no difference at all, but according to the Expression Language Wiki article, the escape character to use is the forward-slash /, and not the backslash, \.

Worth trying in your expressions perhaps?

PS: I actually think it is a bad idea to put any escape character into any field, so I wouldn't even be trying your 1) and 4) above. I think your 2) and 3) above should work in Theatre View, so if they don't, I'm with you. They should be fixed. Or more specifically, your simple requirements below should work, and be easy to do.

I'm looking to

1. Sort by Last Name first

2. Display by First Name first

3. Use multiple artists for albums with the ; delimiter

4. display in JRemote / Theater View

Note that  haven't tried to do what you are doing, but I like the idea..

[Denti]

The backslash I got from Jim H, see earlier in the thread. Hard to imagine he got this wrong, especially since he wrote out "backslash." And of course it *does* work, to some degree. (Just tested it, and / or forward slash makes no difference.)

As I said, any help on this would be appreciated. So far I've gotten some vague interest, and then nothing.

It's nice to hear you say mine are "simple requirements." I agree, and cannot understand why I'm apparently alone (except for Arindelle) in wanting to accomplish this.

[Hendrik]

I believe I commented on this in one of the earlier threads, but I don't remember which, so..

I looked into this topic when it came up before, and unfortunately its not easy to do. If it would be easy, it would be done by now.
The main problem is that its not possible to reliably correlate two lists (grouping and display lists), which means at some point we don't know which element of the list we should pick from the other list. At some point I managed to partially make it work, but in some cases it would pick the wrong element and a view that shows the wrong name is worse then one that doesn't work, imho.

At that point, fixing this issue would require quite invasive changes with a potential of breaking existing views for other users that rely on some other behavior, and I did not see the demand to justify such possibly disruptive and time consuming changes, sorry.

[Denti]

I believe I commented on this in one of the earlier threads, but I don't remember which, so..

I looked into this topic when it came up before, and unfortunately its not easy to do. If it would be easy, it would be done by now.
The main problem is that its not possible to reliably correlate two lists (grouping and display lists), which means at some point we don't know which element of the list we should pick from the other list. At some point I managed to partially make it work, but in some cases it would pick the wrong element and a view that shows the wrong name is worse then one that doesn't work, imho.

At that point, fixing this issue would require quite invasive changes with a potential of breaking existing views for other users that rely on some other behavior, and I did not see the demand to justify such possibly disruptive and time consuming changes, sorry.

But it IS possible in Standard View, so it can't be that hard. Can't we just make the [Name] category field available in Theater View and be done with it?

Or, address the rather simple bugs listed above:

- Allow for "Expression to Display" to function no matter what field is being used to sort

- Allow ; delimiter to work in "Expression to Display"

These are simply bugs that should be fixed no matter what.

I realize the demand is not there, but this is such a basic and fundamental sorting/display issue that I cannot image why it wouldn't be addressed. It is common practice to sort by last name, and yet it makes more sense to display by first name. Doing both together would seem to me to be an obvious feature.

[Hendrik]

But it IS possible in Standard View, so it can't be that hard.

Please let us be the judge of what is and isnt hard based on the code of MC. There is no reason to make things up for us.

[Denti]

Please let us be the judge of what is and isnt hard based on the code of MC. There is no reason to make things up for us.

Sorry. I didn't realize that Standard View and Theater View were that dramatically different.

So what you're saying is that it would be too much of an overhaul to make the [Name] as category field available in Theater View, or perhaps to create a separate place in which [Name] could be used, as it is in Standard View, to create thumbnail text for the groupings?

If that's the case, then I guess I'll give up on this.