Topic: POLL: JRiver Pricing (Read 12080 times)

JimH · « **on:** June 15, 2016, 10:55:01 am »

Just looking for feedback. Thanks.

If you have a feature request, please use another thread.

BryanC · « **Reply #1 on:** June 15, 2016, 11:05:43 am »

Cost of entry is a little high, especially since most people nowadays are accustomed to free or 'app' pricing (i.e. <$10). Updates are on par for a subscription service, no complaints there.

mattkhan · « **Reply #2 on:** June 15, 2016, 12:33:49 pm »

IMV it is both cheap and expensive so I voted about right. It is cheap because of the breadth and depth of functionality on offer but expensive because it is often a bear to use (hence the repeated ease of use threads).

marko · « **Reply #3 on:** June 15, 2016, 12:51:09 pm »

For what it can do, it's excellent value for money.

Here, it's in use every day.

Via JRemote in the car, I have music for every journey.
On my main desktop PC, I use MC to manage all of my images, video and music.
The HTPC presents all of the above to the whole family, in a friendly, easy to consume manner, so they all think it's great too, but don't really know, or care, about why it's so great.

And there is the issue about perceived value. It's all about how much of what MC offers you want to buy into, and how willing you are to get in under the hood and start bending MC to fit your requirements. For me, the beauty of the thing is that because we have that ability, MC can be so many things to so many different people in so many different environments. The down-side to that is that it does involve a fair bit of tinkering at the user end. I don't think any of that is instantly recogniseable to many first time trial users, and also, some are just not prepared to roll their sleeves up and find out what a neat box of tricks that 28Mb installer actually contains, and write it off as over-priced. It's definately not, as far as I am concerned, and with oh-so-sensible licensing terms (any PC you own) to boot, it's all about spot on.

Castius · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:13:39 pm »

I completely agree with BryanC

I'm completely happy what i pay. But i can't help but think there is somehow a free/premium option for JRiver.
That would open it up to much more of the kodi / plex users. JRiver is not on the htpc topics because it does not have the free option.

Paul W · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:16:29 pm »

I'd pay twice the price if the price included good documentation. Without docs, the SW price is just "okay".

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:20:10 pm »

This isn't a feature request thread.

kstuart · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:34:29 pm »

This is a question akin to asking at the Wednesday night Chess Club meeting:

" Is there anyone here who cannot make it on Wednesday night? "

Everyone who thinks the price is wrong, is not reading this Forum.

You should post this poll to some place like Computer Audiophile Forum or Head-Fi.

RD James · « **Reply #8 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:34:57 pm »

Well you're the one with the sales numbers so you'd have better insight.
I'm happy with the $20 upgrade price, $70 seems a bit much for the initial license.
If it were me I'd drop the concept of master/individual platform licenses and just charge a flat $50.

But again, you're the one with insight into how they're selling. Doing that might actually lose sales or mean that you're losing $20 from the majority of new customers.
Apple do that with most of their hardware now. Make a less appealing base model and make the more appealing one the next tier up.

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:37:52 pm »

Snapshot. With 27 votes cast, 22 people (81%) said "about right".

kstuart · « **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:38:17 pm »

Also, if your income mainly comes from yearly upgrade fees, then you could try the "razor and blades" scheme, whereby you lower the price of the first version, in order to get more people to subscribe to the upgrades.

And, if you want to keep your nominal price the same, because businesses are less concerened about costs, then offer frequent discounts and coupons for "personal use only".

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:45:05 pm »

The upgrades and new licenses are a nice mix, not tilted heavily in either direction.

Most people buy a Windows or Mac license, but those who buy master licenses are a healthy minority.

jgreen · « **Reply #12 on:** June 15, 2016, 02:23:44 pm »

Howabout a vote and THEN a feature request?

I think the prices for MC are too low, although I agree the "price for entry" just might be a barrier to new user adoption. My feeling about software is that I will search first for the free option, try the best-rated choices, and then go to paid software with free trials next. Once I'm convinced that the software works for me, I think anything under a hundred bucks is reasonable. Since most of my merely "good" software is free, I have plenty of money left in the budget for great software--or unique software--that has a steeper price tag.

Also, I think that a polling function imbedded inside MC might make a great feature! JimH could just ping the send button all day long: "How high is up?" "What time is it where you are?" "Did you hear that Oprah's got a new TV show?"

jgreen · « **Reply #13 on:** June 15, 2016, 02:27:40 pm »

I meant the previous feature request as a joke, but now that I think of it . . .

JimH, are you seeing what I'm seeing there, social media, etc?

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** June 15, 2016, 02:51:20 pm »

You can be the social director.

blgentry · « **Reply #15 on:** June 15, 2016, 03:29:19 pm »

Let me give you several answers:

1. I bought MC and thought it was "about right" for the price, though I went looking for coupon codes because I was hoping to pay just a little less. I didn't find any coupons and paid full price at the time.

2. Of the people I have introduced MC to, most have not bitten, even though they are interested because the price is just high enough to keep them away for the time being. One of those people will almost certainly buy when the trial period is over.

3. As an audio only player, MC is very, very good, but the price seems just a tad high as I indicated in #1 above. But, once you begin to learn the depth and breadth of MC's capabilities, it starts to seem like a real bargain! This isn't necessarily evident at first. I was aware that MC handled media other than audio when I first bought it. But I tend to be very very skeptical of "all in one" software. It usually sucks for most, or all of it's functionality because it's trying too hard to do too much.

MC is different because of it's level of maturity. One of the first things I tell new people about MC is this: "This program has been continuously developed for longer than any other music player that currently exists." That says something.

I'm not sure how useful any of this is, but that's how I see it.

Brian.

jgreen · « **Reply #16 on:** June 15, 2016, 06:04:09 pm »

That's perfect, JimH! Wasn't that Gopher's job on the Love Boat? I see myself as a Fred Grandy type, a real don't-mess-with-me type, a coiled python ready to strike.

Still, you've got this captive audience of MC enthusiasts: Listening to music, watching TV or movies, cataloging it all with your flagship product. I say monetize!

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2016, 06:50:31 pm »

That would make me Gavin MacLeod. I've always liked Gavin.

Just let me know when you figure out where this is heading.

jmone · « **Reply #18 on:** June 16, 2016, 06:27:52 am »

I'm very comfortable with not only the pricing structure but also the whole dev cycle as well:
- Initial Price gets you a "forever" licence for the major version with free upgrades for all dev done for the major version you are on
- About once per year you pay for a (cheap) fee for the next version and it starts again. You can also "miss" a version if you need to and pick it up next time
- The ONE licence fee can include ALL your devices (within reason)! This is a big difference with the rest of the industry

It seems to take a few of the newer JRiver customers to get used to this model as it is so different to most of the industry but I think it is great

Thanks
Nathan

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2016, 09:16:15 am »

Snapshot -- of 55 votes, 39 (71%) say "about right".

BigCat · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:22:44 am »

I love JRiver. I might not post or even read these forums as often as I would like as life is complicated, but I believe this is the only paid software that I have chosen over free alternatives. I have been with JRiver since Media Jukebox 7 (I think it was. Anyone remember RealAudio?). The first version I bought was Media Jukebox 8, and I have purchased registration codes 11 times in total, including the future v.22.

Having said that, let me respectfully and humbly request that you don't increase the upgrade cost. Thank you...

marko · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2016, 11:38:21 am »

Quote

Anyone remember RealAudio?

Yup. Tried that. They had a "Real Downloader" too. They called it the "Real One Player" for a bit...

Many many moons ago, someone made an MC clone of it, that I still have in my skins folder, even though it doesn't quite work right these days. Maybe I should fix it up

Sesam · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2016, 11:41:42 am »

Licenses: A little high
Upgrades: About right

Licenses would maybe benefit from being a little cheaper to convince more people to buy the software. Because it takes time discover all the features and thus to see the true value, so a lower initial price might lure some more people on-board.

As for upgrades, I have been upgrading each version since 17 (I'm on the Master License also ever since that became a thing). I think the upgrade pricing so far has been about right, there is likely not much room to move in any direction.

hoyt · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2016, 11:45:14 am »

This is a tough question. The entry fee is high at $50 for one platform. But what I just paid to upgrade a master license at $23 felt low and I happily locked it in.

As was mentioned by a few other people so far, this is the one of the only paid software platforms that I routinely upgrade and pay more for (TurboTax is probably the only other one that I pay for annually). I do think the JRemote fee is too high since it's per device/ user and there seems to be very little development by contrast with MC itself. I guess it's a one time fee, but still a $10 app is on the high side if it's not updated. That's tied for the most expensive phone app I've ever paid for and I'm not sure I'd recommend anyone else to pay for it.

EDIT: Thought it was a $5 app, oops, guess it's $10. Certainly wouldn't recommend anyone buy it then.

kstuart · « **Reply #24 on:** June 16, 2016, 11:56:08 am »

A spreadsheet might tell you how many more upgrades it would take to compensate for a given decrease in the initial software price. (Since people who have not purchased at all, do not buy upgrades.)

millst · « **Reply #25 on:** June 16, 2016, 12:27:16 pm »

Quote from: kstuart on June 15, 2016, 01:34:29 pm

This is a question akin to asking at the Wednesday night Chess Club meeting:

" Is there anyone here who cannot make it on Wednesday night? "

Everyone who thinks the price is wrong, is not reading this Forum.

You should post this poll to some place like Computer Audiophile Forum or Head-Fi.

Exactly, what I was thinking. We're mostly owners here, but we wouldn't be if the price had been too high for us. I've mentioned it to some friends, but the cost was too high for them.

-tm

JeTie · « **Reply #26 on:** June 16, 2016, 01:09:12 pm »

I voted "about right". When looking after the special offers for the upgrades it's quite cheap in my opinion.
Have you ever thought about 3 or 5 year subsciption for a reasonable price, how about that?

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** June 16, 2016, 02:58:05 pm »

Quote from: millst on June 16, 2016, 12:27:16 pm

Exactly, what I was thinking. We're mostly owners here, but we wouldn't be if the price had been too high for us. I've mentioned it to some friends, but the cost was too high for them.

Anyone can vote -- people who've not bought for five years, or have never bought.

If we ran a similar poll on a different site, there would be the reverse effect -- people voting who had never tried the program, etc.

I do agree that you can't get a very accurate measurement.

bhampster · « **Reply #28 on:** June 16, 2016, 03:42:52 pm »

I'm happy with the product and its price.

yannis · « **Reply #29 on:** June 17, 2016, 02:19:01 am »

Just a side thought: The buying price may be a little high for users in countries with lower personal income, as is the case here, in notorious Greece

But the optional upgrades are for me the best part of the deal!

RoderickGI · « **Reply #30 on:** June 17, 2016, 03:13:24 am »

I think the initial purchase price is a bit high considering the lack of documentation and the reliance on users to support other users. But not by a lot.

The upgrade pricing is fine.

I do buy other software, but don't upgrade to the major versions as often because they cost too much. If I don't need the new features, I don't upgrade. Things like EaseUS backup software, VideoReDo, Debut Video capture software.

I also think a once off purchase, with optional upgrades, is far cheaper than the "free software" model, where you can use a crippled version of the software for free, but if you really want to do anything with it, you have to pay, or worse, subscribe. Games on phones, Free! But to play them seriously, or not just get thrashed every time, you need to do in App purchases, which can add up to many times the "value" of the software. A lot of those games can end up costing hundred of dollars, for a gaming experience that would cost about $60 to $80 on a PC. That's why I don't do in App purchases, or play much in the way of games on phones.

Then there are useful App like Endomondo, which you can use for free forever . . . if you like having a flat phone battery all the time. You used to be able to get a once of purchase to fix that, but now you have to go Premium, at US$6 per month, or US$30 per year. Plus they will keep charging every period unless you stop it, and then the software doesn't work anymore. You are dropped back to basic functionality.

Then look at Adobe Creative Cloud. US$10 per month for just Lightroom and Photoshop. US$50 per month for all Adobe Apps. Much cheaper than it used to be to purchase the standalone applications, but still not cheap. But it does have great documentation and Adobe support, and lots of third party training, assistance, and documentation, as well as lots of functionality add-ons.

So overall, MC is about right. Don't even think about going to a subscription model that requires continuous payments to be able to continue using the software. Or "in App" purchases to add functionality, unless they are plugins, JRemote, or similar. I don't think a free version of MC would work very well either, since any crippling would detract from the value a lot.

I think if you want to get more conversions from trail installation, you might want to try a longer trial period. There is so much to the program, and so many people want to use it "their way", that it takes a while to learn and evaluate. Some people seem to purchase in a couple of weeks, but others seem to buy at the last minute, and still haven't worked out how to use MC. You are probably losing people who give up when the trial expires at one month. But you have the numbers, so you might have a better idea about that.

mattkhan · « **Reply #31 on:** June 17, 2016, 04:12:54 am »

Quote from: hoyt on June 16, 2016, 11:45:14 am

I do think the JRemote fee is too high since it's per device/ user and there seems to be very little development by contrast with MC itself. I guess it's a one time fee, but still a $10 app is on the high side if it's not updated. That's tied for the most expensive phone app I've ever paid for and I'm not sure I'd recommend anyone else to pay for it.

EDIT: Thought it was a $5 app, oops, guess it's $10. Certainly wouldn't recommend anyone buy it then.

I was about to post a comment similar to this. I find the licence model for jremote quite annoying and inconsistent with both gizmo (free) and MC itself (buy once, fair use installation across all devices you own). I wouldn't mind paying a one off $10 fee for jremote (though obviously i'd prefer free

) but paying $10 per account that resides in my house is excessive.

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** June 17, 2016, 06:59:40 am »

We're very grateful for all the feedback, but please don't sidetrack the discussion. The question is about Media Center pricing, not about JRemote pricing or documentation.

mattkhan · « **Reply #33 on:** June 17, 2016, 07:06:43 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 17, 2016, 06:59:40 am

We're very grateful for all the feedback, but please don't sidetrack the discussion. The question is about Media Center pricing, not about JRemote pricing or documentation.

fair enough. Just to be clear, my point is that I don't see jremote as a separate product (and hence why I thought it would be on topic here)

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** June 17, 2016, 07:20:49 am »

I understand, but JRemote is just one of many remotes that work with JRiver. It isn't part of Media Center.

rec head · « **Reply #35 on:** June 17, 2016, 07:35:26 am »

I think the initial price only seems expensive because there is so much competition that is free.

JimH · « **Reply #36 on:** June 18, 2016, 07:24:14 am »

Snapshot:
100 votes, 68% of voters say "about right". Another 7% say the price is a little low.

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Poll

How do you feel about JRiver pricing for Media Center?

Author Topic: POLL: JRiver Pricing (Read 12080 times)