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[JP400]

Hello,

I'm sorry to start another "gapless" thread, but I have to know...
When people on this forum say they are getting "gapless playback", do they really mean it ?

What I mean is...

I have all my Library in iTunes. I play a track from a live CD album (imported into iTunes as an MP3, bit rate 320kbps, sampling rate 44100Hz ). When the track finishes and goes on to the next track, it does it seamlessly. No crossfade. No stutter. No skip. You shut your eyes and you cannot hear the transition.

I have installed JRiver 21.0.83. As far as I can tell, files are not imported into JRiver (it does not create a Library like iTunes does).
Nonethless, I "import" that same folder (...\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music\Great Big Sea\Courage Patience & Grit).
All the artwork and stuff appears in JRiver. I play the track in JRiver. It gets to the next track... And it skips. Don't get me wrong, you could almost argue that it is gapless (a fraction of a second; sneeze and you'd not notice), but it is certainly not seamless. You shut your eyes and there is a blip as it transitions from one track to the other.

I have ticked the gapless settings, and unticked them; turned crossfade off; changed the buffering time. I have done everything I can find. Nothing changes.
And all of this is before I even try to play it on a DLNA device. When I play it on my MotoG using Gizmo, it performs exactly the same... blip.

Please... Since there are a whole bunch of people that seem to say that their live albums do indeed play seamlessly... Someone tell me what I am doing wrong (aside from listening to Great Big Sea).

Thanks

[blgentry]

I just listened to 3 tracks from Pink Floyd's The Dark Side Of The Moon, which is a gapless album.  Then I put on 3 tracks from a live album with crowd noise and commentary that spans tracks.  I listened at a pretty loud level on headphones.

In both cases I didn't hear any gaps.  No silence, no blips, no nothing.  As you suggested, I closed my eyes in the last 20 to 30 seconds of each track to try to detect the gaps.  Song changes are easy to hear.  Because the song changes!  But I didn't hear anything that indicated that playback was interrupted.

It's possible something is wrong with your playback chain.  Though, you mention that itunes works correctly.  Are itunes and MC playing to the exact same playback chain?  Same driver, same hardware, same everything?

Maybe one of the windows sound experts will have better ideas about what you might try to fix this.

Brian.

[JP400]

Thanks for the response, Brian.

It's good to know that seamless/gapless playback is achievable. Now let's hope someone can point me in the right direction for faultfinding and fixing my "playback chain". I would have thought it would have been exactly the same, but I'm no expert on this stuff.

[JP400]

Okay... So here's an update.

I spent the last few hours trying everything, and nothing worked or changed. Still not gapless.

Then I stumbled across a forum that mentioned another JRiver product... J River Media Jukebox.
I downloaded that and tried it... Perfect gapless playback !

Does anyone have any idea why Media Jukebox might play gapless on my system, but Media Centre does not ?
What is the difference between the two products that could be causing my computer to complain ?

Thanks

[JimH]

Antivirus?

Playback from memory?

Audio settings?  ASIO, WASAPI, DirectSound

[AndyU]

I listen mostly to classical music, including lots of opera. A single act of an opera is a continuous performance but is on the disc and gets ripped as something like a hundred tracks.  MC plays them back gaplessly absolutely perfectly I can assure you! This forum would be nuked with complaints if it did not. You might want to check a few settings - "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)" is probably best left unchecked if you want to play what is on the cd. And of course you do want to check "Use gapless for sequential album tracks".

[JP400]

Hi JimH,

Antivirus... I don't understand.
I use Norton Internet Security.
Do you want me to turn off my Antivirus to use JRiver Media Centre ?
Why would it work fine with Jukebox ?
I understand if I was trying to play via the network, but surely if I am using Media Centre on my local PC, then it should be fine... ? Or does Media Centre access the internet even when playing off the local PC ?

Playback from memory...
Tried that. It made no difference.

Tried WASAPI and DirectSound...
No difference. Again, the standard settings for Jukebox worked absolutely fine (once I had ticked Gapless playback).

Hi AndyU.

Yes, I understand that JRiver Media Centre works gapless for a lot of people. I don't know about being nuked with complaints, but there are other threads on here where people have had problems with gapless not working. Sadly, none of them have a solution that works for me.

I'm afraid I have checked the settings on multiple occasions. Yes, I have ticked "Use gapless for sequential album tracks". I have also ticked "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)", though I did assume that was actually removing the natural silence that is deliberately left between tracks on studio albums.
If you have any other thoughts, I would appreciate it.

The question on my last Post still stands...
Any ideas on why Jukebox works, but not Media Centre ?

I do appreciate people trying to help me with this.

Thanks

[blgentry]

I have also ticked "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)", though I did assume that was actually removing the natural silence that is deliberately left between tracks on studio albums.

That option is sort of unusual and you've misinterpreted it's function.  "do not play silence" actually removes part of songs that have very, very quiet parts at the beginning or the end.  With that option checked, MC might be removing part of the songs you are listening to.  Which might explain why you are hearing interruptions.

Turn that option OFF.  Then stop and restart MC. Then test again.  Hopefully this will fix your issue.

Brian.

[JP400]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the thought.
I have tried that option both ticked and unticked... Neither options made a difference.

Some of the tracks are very quiet between them, but a lot of them have significant crowd noise between them.

Since I am not sitting in front of MC again, I can tell you the options that I have...

Audio Device
Default Audio Device
Device settings... Default channels (Recommended); Buffering 0.25 seconds;

Settings
DSP & output format... Nothing turned on
Zoneswitch... Nothing turned on
Bitstreaming... None (Recommended)
Prebuffering... 6 seconds (Recommended)
Play silence at startup... None
Play files from memory instead of disk... Not ticked (did try turning it on... no difference)
Disable display from turning off... Not ticked

Track change
Switch tracks... gapless
Do not play silence... Not ticked (have tried it ticked too... No difference)
Use gapless for sequential album tracks... Ticked
Use gapless for manual track changes... Unticked (have tried it ticked)

Stop, Seek and Skip
Seek... gapless (that does work)
Stop... Fast fade (that works) And that is Immediate when set to Immediate
Pause... Fast fade (that works) And that is Immediate when set to Immediate

Volume
Volume Mode... System volume
Volume protection... Not ticked
Maximum Volume... 100 (as installed)
Startup volume... -1 (as installed)

Alternate Mode Settings... Not ticked

Advanced
Auto Configure on error... Ask
Configure Input Plug-In... Not touched this
Dither mode... JRiver
Live playback latency... 50 ms (as recommended) (also tried changing this... no difference)
Write tool name and version... Ticked


I have also turned off the Media Network function to see if that made a difference (since Jukebox worked perfectly, and this was one of the difference)... No change.

Any thoughts... ?

[JP400]

Hi JimH,

I have since turned off Norton... Still not gapless.

Any other ideas ?

Thanks

[JP400]

Here's another thought...

I'm running the trial version of MC21 because I did not want to commit until I knew I would like it.
I was actually right ready to commit to Plex until I stumbled across the fact that it's not gapless (it actually has a HUGE gap between tracks - well... probably at least a second).

Anyway, I thought I'd trial MC21 before I committed.
Some free versions do not offer full functionality until you buy it.

Could that be it ?

[RoderickGI]

The MC trial is fully functional. Nothing is turned off. It just times out after 30 days.

Try using Internal Volume rather than System Volume. Internal Volume is considered the best option by many users. If your have an external volume control on your hardware, you could try Disabled Volume.

However, volume shouldn't affect gapless playback, and if Jukebox works I would assume MC would as well.

Don't use DirectSound. Use WASAPI or ASIO. Set them to Exclusive Mode.
For example, on my test PC I use "Realtek High Definition Audio [WASAPI]", which is the motherboard audio. I've just got some stereo powered speakers directly connected to the PC.
You say the recommended Buffering for your device is .25 seconds. MC must think your device needs more buffering, because my poor PC audio only needs 100ms, recommended, but Gapless still works with it set to "Minimum hardware size", which appears to be less than 5ms. Gapless works at 100ms also.

I'm not sure where you are seeing the "Default Channels" setting. I don't get that on my devices. But then both PCs use the onboard motherboard Realtek audio, and I believe MC will change settings offered based on capabilities.

Check the Audio Path in MC while you are playing these tracks. Watch it as the tracks change. Anything unusual?

Even when you turn off Norton (I am a Norton 360 user - same thing as your Norton Internet Security really), it doesn't stop doing stuff in the background. Go to "Settings>Antivirus>Scans and Risks>Exclusions / Low Risks>" (or similar settings in your Norton software) and exclude your media files from Scan, Auto-Protect, SONAR (particularly), and Download Intelligence. That should be safe, as it is unlikely that your media files have virus or malware.

Also please list your PC hardware, OS version, Memory, and describe your hard disk environment. i.e. External USB drives, all internal hard drives, SSD boot disk or all drives, media on a network drive or NAS? Perhaps there is a bottleneck that affects MC but not Jukebox.

Run the MC Benchmark and post the results here. Menu>Help>Benchmark.

The describe your audio hardware, or "playback chain" as Brian calls it. Do you use the onboard, motherboard audio, output via S/PDIF (Optical/Coaxial), connect to a Receiver via HDMI, USB DAC to analogue amplifier, and so on. Brands and Models. It can't hurt to list this stuff, and someone who has the same stuff may be able to help.

When doing your testing, make changes to MC then close it, wait a 10 seconds or so, and re-open it, so that you know all those settings are being used. (MC can take a little while to fully close, if it is doing background tasks like building thumbnails. Hence the need to "wait a while" before re-starting.)

[JimH]

Uninstall Norton to test.  Turning it off may not be enough.

Try playing to a different device, just to test.

[JP400]

Hi RoderickGI,

I have switched to WASAPI - Realtek High Definition Audio; Exclusive; Bitdepth is automatic (recommended); Buffering is 100ms (recommended).
The "Default Channel" setting has disappeared. I presume, just as you did, that those options change depending on the audio device that you pick.

AudioPath is Direct
Input is 44.1kHz 2ch from source format MP3
Output is 44.1kHz 32bit 2ch using WASAPI (direct connection)

There is no change as it plays through to the next track.

I have remove the particular album that I am testing with from all NIS scans.

My PC is an ASUS D510MT Desktop. The only things I have put on it are iTunes, NIS, and JRiver.
It might interest you to know that it came with McAfee, but since I already had a NIS subscription, I removed McAfee and installed NIS. I have had the gapless issue with both McAfee and NIS. I'm glad to hear you use Norton with no problem.

It came with a 1TB HDD installed. I performed the free Windows 10 Pro 64-bit upgrade. It has 4GB RAM (useable 3.88 GB according to the setting menu). i3-4160 CPU @3.60GHZ.

The audio device/driver is the Realtek High Definition Audio. I connect to my very basis PC "Satellite and Sub" speakers via the headphone out on the back. (My actual stereo system is awaiting shipment from the UK. Yes, I miss it !) I have just tested the connection in the front... Just to see... Still a gap.

I basically installed iTunes, and drag-and-dropped all my music from the external SSD that I had into iTunes. iTunes created the appropriate folders/files on the internal HDD. I then "imported" them into JRiver.

See the Benchmark results below

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.079 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.514 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 2.129 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.437 seconds
Score: 1870

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.379 seconds
    Flood filling... 0.584 seconds
    Direct copying... 0.910 seconds
    Small renders... 1.156 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.343 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 0.864 seconds
Score: 4202

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.193 seconds
    Populate database... 1.619 seconds
    Save database... 1.093 seconds
    Reload database... 0.299 seconds
    Search database... 1.015 seconds
    Sort database... 0.954 seconds
    Group database... 0.647 seconds
Score: 3694

JRMark (version 21.0.83): 3255

Any more thoughts ?
Again, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to look into this.

[JP400]

Hi JimH,

I have tried other devices, and am back to WASAPI again.

The thing about my anti-virus is that I've had this problem with both McAfee and NIS. The same problem with two pieces of software, and one has to start looking at the common factor which is currently JRiver. That's not to say that the problem isn't somewhere else on this machine, but rather that the problem occurs with two different anti-virus, and Roderick runs Norton.

If we get really stuck, then I might have to uninstall it, but it's just a headache to uninstall and then reinstall when it will probably still have a gap.

Any other thoughts ?

[RoderickGI]

Well everything you have posted about your system looks good to me. I only have two thoughts left on the issue at the moment;

1. Is iTunes still doing something in the background, and perhaps holding on to the files for a moment? I know the iTunesHelper keeps running in the background even when iTunes isn't running. Maybe kill any iTunes related process and see if that helps.

2. Go through the Windows Task and Resource Managers and see if anything else is happening on the PC when you are playing music. Windows background processes, updates, network activity, how is the memory usage looking, since you only have 4GB, and so on.

3. It still could be Norton. It runs a bunch of stuff in the background as well, and could take a moment to release files. Try running a Full System Scan of your PC, reboot after it finishes, and see if that helps. You may still need to try with Norton uninstalled. While getting Norton uninstalled can be a pain, they do provide a "complete removal" tool. You shouldn't need to run that though, and probably don't want to, because if you don't then a reinstall can be much easier, since it will know about your subscription. If nothing else works, uninstalling Norton is worth a try.

[JP400]

Sigh...

Well... I uninstalled Norton... Still a gap.

Closed iTunes Helpers, still a gap.

All told, I'm using around 40% memory.

Only 4GB ? Sigh...

I am off to reinstall Norton.

Any other ideas ?

Thanks again

[RoderickGI]

Just the rest of number 2 at the moment.

I trust there were reboots of the PC after each major change, like uninstalling Norton?

Only 4GB ? Sigh...

Yeah, it is a bit like that. "I've got 64KB of memory in my [insert 1980's console here]. Isn't it great!"

Microsoft claim Windows 10 64bit only needs 2GB to run. They probably just mean the operating system, without any programs. 

I put 16GB in my HTPC just to future proof it a bit.  But at 40% usage, you should be okay.

... Perhaps try downgrading the Realtek driver? Or maybe uninstalling all Realtek software except the driver?

[DJLegba]

Use MC to rip a CD into your library. Then play it to check for gapless playback. The problem could very well be with your iTunes library.

[JP400]

Hello people,

Well, DJLegba had a point that I had considered, but not experimented with. I have since experimented...
If I take the same CD and rip straight into MC (CBR/ABR L.A.M.E. MP3, Target bitrate 320kbps), then it plays back gapless !

So... Why is it that MC cannot play back the files from my iTunes Library ?
How do we fix this since I have over 3,000 tracks that: a) I do not want to have to rip again; b) I do not have the albums in the country to rip !
I suppose I only need to re-rip the live/seamless albums. But then I have my Music stored in two different places in my filing system - the MC filing system, and the iTunes filing system.

What is interesting is that, even though I have set it to 320kbps, all the files say that they have been ripped at somewhere between 299 and 304kbps, and not 320kbps.
It produces a files size that is smaller (iTunes is 10.2MB, versus MC at 9.53MB). Curious...
I also note that MC finds way less information about the CD than iTunes does (not something that I am going to cry about, but certainly something that is also interesting).

Any thoughts on how to fix this gapless "bug" between MC and iTunes ?

Thanks again to all those that are reading and replying.

[RoderickGI]

I'm out of my depth when it comes to the idiosyncrasies of iTunes.

When you got the lower bit rates using CBR (Constant Bit Rate) selected, did you restrict MC to use that bitrate with the flag in the CBR/ABR dialogue?

[blgentry]

I suppose I only need to re-rip the live/seamless albums. But then I have my Music stored in two different places in my filing system - the MC filing system, and the iTunes filing system.

You could put them in a common directory like "Music" or something and point both programs to the same location.

What is interesting is that, even though I have set it to 320kbps, all the files say that they have been ripped at somewhere between 299 and 304kbps, and not 320kbps.

Personally I see no reason to rip CDs in a lossy format any more.  Lossless music isn't that large compared to today's hard drive sizes.

But that doesn't answer your question.  The answer is, that MC defaults to VBR (Variable Bit Rate) for MP3 audio.  Even though it says CBR/ABR, it defaults to variable (I guess that's what ABR means?).  There's a check box in the CBR/ABR section that says "restrict to CBR".  Check that box and it will actually produce 320kpbs files and not variable ones like you've seen.

Brian.

[JP400]

Hi guys,

Thanks, RoderickGI and Brian. You both pointed me to the tick box for CBR which fixed the 320kbps issue.

Brian, that's a good idea on the library.. Maybe...
When I buy new CD's and Rip them using MC into that Library, will iTunes recognize them as well ? I'm guessing I need iTunes to get my albums onto my iPad/iPod ? Or can JRiver sync selected albums (and artwork, etc) to iPods/iPads ?

You do make an interesting point regarding file size of lossless. Personally, if I am actually listening to music, rather than it just being background, then I would listen to the CD itself. There is something about taking a CD out of it's case, putting it in a CD player, pressing play, turning up the stereo, sitting back, and listening.
The only reason I did the whole iPod thing (back in the day), is because I wanted music in the car and at work. I didn't want to keep CD's in the car because they get stolen, and people crash cars by changing CD's ! The iPod gave me the ability to get my whole music collection into the car and get safe control via the head-unit. And, let's be honest, when listening in a car, the last thing anyone is going to really notice (within reason) is whether it's "lossless" or MP3. There's road noise, wind noise, engine noise, etc, etc. AND, when driving, one is supposed to be paying attention to driving, not bopping along to music (Sorry, I got hit by someone driving dangerously, died three times in the ambulance and, praise the Lord, in the end I only lost my leg. I take paying attention to one's driving VERY seriously).
But back to our observations on format...

I did multiple blind testing between 128, 192, 256, and 320 on AAC and as MP3. I pretty soon dismissed anything below 320. Anything below 320, and it was like I was listening to a completely different album ! Then comparing between 320 AAC and 320 MP3, I was consistently picking the MP3 320 as the closest to the CD (for those interested, it was the "presence" in vocals, the "air" of the acoustic guitar, and the solidness of the bass guitar that really stood out in the test track that I used).

Anyway, the idea of this whole Media Server thing, for us, is to get all my music on an available server so that we can easily play it around the house, and anywhere we have wifi access. If I/we really want to listen to music, it'll always be on CD.

Thanks to this forum, I now have gapless playback on my MC Server PC. The next challenge is to get gapless playback onto our devices. A friend of mine recently found the exact same album on his Spotify account, and it played back seamlessly. Tomorrow I'll test JRiver on my iPad at work...
Any suggestions ? How do other people stream their music gaplessly to their devices ? Via an App, or via the webpage ?

Thanks again

[RoderickGI]

You'll find your answers about iTunes/iPod/iPad here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97847.0

[JimH]

Anyway, the idea of this whole Media Server thing, for us, is to get all my music on an available server so that we can easily play it around the house, and anywhere we have wifi access. If I/we really want to listen to music, it'll always be on CD.

If you rip to lossless, playback will be identical to what you would get from a CD.

[blgentry]

When I buy new CD's and Rip them using MC into that Library, will iTunes recognize them as well ? I'm guessing I need iTunes to get my albums onto my iPad/iPod ? Or can JRiver sync selected albums (and artwork, etc) to iPods/iPads ?

Roderick's link has a good overview, including a piece of software designed to help move/sync files from MC to itunes.  Here's the thread on it:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51734.0

Personally, I would probably do something like this:

A.  Rip all music to FLAC inside of MC.
B.  Choose selected music that I want on idevices.  Make a handheld definition that syncs to a local directory on a hard drive.  Choose to have this at 320kbps MP3.  Now when I sync this "handheld", it will create a directory full of MP3s from my lossless files.  Anything that wasn't lossless, and was already MP3, is just copied over.
C1.  Point itunes at this directory.  Any time I want to sync an idevice, make sure itunes has read this directory (rescan), and then sync the idevice.
OR
C2.  Use a third party idevice sync tool.  There are many.  Point this tool to the same directory and have it sync my idevice.


Or learn how to use MCits (linked above).

(Sorry, I got hit by someone driving dangerously, died three times in the ambulance and, praise the Lord, in the end I only lost my leg. I take paying attention to one's driving VERY seriously).

I'm glad to hear you are alive and mostly intact.  That's a serious accident.  Sometimes I feel lucky to be alive after the amount of driving I've done.

Brian.

[JP400]

Thanks JimH,

The biggest issue with lossless is the amount of space the files would then take up on my iPod/iPad. Ultimately I cannot always be sure that I will be in an area with good wifi connection, especially when in the car. Hence my iPod/iPad will always have a certain amount of music stored on it for when I need it (I often have a need for background music and use my devices for a reliable source).
Considering the purpose is only background music, there is no reason to have the huge file sizes associated with lossless. Rather have more of a choice of background music at a lower quality that no-one will notice.

But I do take your point that, if I did not mind the files size, then I could do lossless.

Thanks

[JP400]

Thanks for the links on "virtual devices". That looks like a good idea if I decided to go lossless. However, I think I am going to stick with 320 MP3.
But parts "B" and "C1" or "C2" look interesting.

It might be that once I have reconciled my libraries, I can use iTunes as is. If I understand you correctly, Brian, there is some kind of "rescan" option in iTunes where it re-reads the directory that is pointed to and so it would find any stuff that I have ripped at 320 MP3 with MC. Interesting...

[blgentry]

It might be that once I have reconciled my libraries, I can use iTunes as is.

Trying to make MC and itunes co-exist seems like kind of a challenge.  Itunes is a very invasive media manager.  This is why I recommend that you just use itunes as a transfer device:  To get music onto your idevices.

If I understand you correctly, Brian, there is some kind of "rescan" option in iTunes where it re-reads the directory that is pointed to and so it would find any stuff that I have ripped at 320 MP3 with MC. Interesting...

I'm not all that great with itunes.  I know a little, but honestly I just hate the software.  I remembered something and did a quick search to refresh my memory.  There's a folder under Itunes Media called "automatically add to itunes".  Itunes looks in this directory constantly and adds media from there into the itunes library.  BUT... It seems like itunes then *moves* those files into the regular itunes file structure.

If you're using copies of your files, that's probably ok.  If you are hoping to actually share the same files between itunes and MC, then this method is probably the wrong one to use.  I would not try to share media files between the two programs.  I would let each one have it's own playground.  That way they can't step on each others' toes.

Take care,

Brian.

[DJLegba]

Rip lossless to your computer and transcode to mp3 when syncing to your iPod. You will be very happy to have a lossless copy when the CD isn't in the tray quite right and the player door closes and scratches the disc. Or when you accidentally drop the disc and the dog grabs it. And last but not least, when your CD player finally gives up the ghost.

I know where you're coming from. I resisted for years, thinking what could be simpler than putting a disc in the player. But then my player started acting up, and I bought a DAC and ripped my collection. What a difference! I no longer had to search for discs. I could listen to an entire opera with a single click. And I could buy and listen to downloads within minutes of reading a review or hearing a recommendation.

[JP400]

Oh... By the way... I tried WebGizmo on my iPad at work today. It struggled like crazy. It showed me the artists and albums, etc, but when I clicked on them to play it just sat there buffering and buffering and buffering...

I just tried it at home on my iPad, using my home wifi network, and it was a little better. It played one track, but then got stuck waiting for the next track.

I tried Gizmo on my MotoG (Android), and it found all the files, and played them... Albeit with a gap between tracks.

Any ideas ?
What do other people use to listen to their music over wifi ?

[JP400]

Fair enough, Brian.
I'll have a poke around iTunes, but maybe I just need to accept that I'll need two Libraries.
Thanks anyway.

[JP400]

Very good points, DJLegba,
I might be one of those that is determined to cling on a little longer and I would actually then go out and buy the CD again !
Funnily enough, I think of it the other way around... At least if I have the CD, then I can always rip it again when the hard disc goes up in smoke and I lose everything !

Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other

[DJLegba]

I still have all the CDs as backup, but I've also got everything on two hard drives (and another that I keep offline). Your CD player is a reader with a DAC. Your computer is already a reader, and it can make exact copies of the information on the disc. So when your CD player dies, all you really need is a DAC.

I don't get any gaps using Gizmo or WebGizmo over WiFi. Are you playing the discs you ripped, or still from your iTunes library? Gizmo over WiFi is actually much better than JRemote because Gizmo uses a cache and is much less affected by a weak WiFi signal. I do all the stuff you're trying to do and it all just works. So stick with it - I'm sure you'll find the effort is worthwhile.

[JP400]

Thanks DJLegba,

I actually realized I'd read something wrong... JRemote is not just a "remote", it streams too.
I just downloaded JRemote to my iPad (I had loads of credit because people buy me iTunes vouchers as thank you's... Shame you can't buy CD's with them !)
Anyway... JRemote works perfectly (and gapless !!!!!!! My wife wondered what all the cheering was about !) on the iPad where WebGizmo is failing in spectacular fashion.

Oh, to answer your question... I removed the iTunes files that don't work and am doing all my tests with the MC ripped files.
Interesting that you have Gizmo working better...

Maybe I won't buy Android version of JRemote yet... It's $12 ! And I'd have to buy it twice. Once for her and once for me.

[JP400]

On the subject of Gizmo...
As far as I can tell, there is only one major setting that could effect gapless, and that is the cache. I have it set to 5 songs.

DJLegba... Since you use it, and it works, what settings do you use ?
Or could this be a device issue ? (e.g. MotoG)

Thanks

[DJLegba]

I set Gizmo's cache to the maximum, which I think is 10. I've never used Gizmo on the iPad - just WebGizmo. And JRemote does work very well on the iPad. I was using it on my Android phone as well but found that when playing to the Android phone Gizmo did a better job than JRemote to the same phone.

One very nice feature of JRemote on the iPad is that it will display the PDF "booklet" you usually get with a download (but not when you buy from Pono). The Android version of JRemote doesn't have that ability. If you put image files or PDFs in the folder with the album you'll see a paper clip icon on the JRemote screen when playing the album. However, you have to configure Media Center's library import to include "data" as well as audio.

[JP400]

Hi,

Yes, I do like JRemote on the iPad.

Gizmo on my MotoG3 is set to 5 tracks. Maybe I should try 10. I can't see that being the reason for it failing to do gapless though.

Sigh...

[JP400]

For those interested in the iTunes Library "challenge"...

If you go to Edit>Preferences>Advanced, there is a tick box for "Copy files to iTunes Media folder when adding to library".
With this turned off, I can drag the MC generated album folders from File Explorer into the iTunes window and rather than showing an "+" sign because it is copying, it shows a "Link" icon because it is just copying the link.
That might be my solution.

I can move all my files to the Music folder where MC rips my music to, and then drag links back into iTunes.
I will just make sure I never rip using iTunes.

[DJLegba]

Is there a reason you need to maintain your iTunes library? What does iTunes do that you can't do in the JRiver universe?

[JP400]

Hi DJLegba,

You know... That is a good question...
I am trying to think of an answer, and I don't have one yet.
I guess one answer might be that I just expect to have to use iTunes to manage my iPad and my iPod simply because that's how one is supposed to do it !

Another question that I asked myself recently is, why do I even need to keep using my iPod ?
Once all my/our music is on the MC Server/PC, and once I have the second drive installed as a backup (1TB each. Yes, not huge, but large enough for our music at 320kbps, and some photos, and maybe half-a-dozen small videos), then my external SSD drive that is currently my music backup could become the hard drive for our vehicles and we simply load all our music onto it for use in whichever vehicle we take. Oh, unless we each drive separately... Hmmm... Maybe the iPod still has a purpose as a hard drive.

So, back to your question... I don't know !?
At some point I might have to try looking at the various MC methods of getting stuff to my iPad.

Have you upgraded to MC22 ?
How is that ?

Oh, Gizmo is still not working seamlessly on my Android, but JRemote from my iPad worked perfectly at work today. And my wife really likes WebGizmo on her Macbook and Gizmo on her Android. She is less fussy about the gapless thing.

[DJLegba]

I have purchased the MC22 license but haven't upgraded yet. I've been busy and haven't had time to set aside for potential issues, although I don't expect there will be any.

I usually use JRemote on both the Motorola Android phone and the iPad, because the presentation is much better than Gizmo. In the past when I tried to play my library through JRemote on the phone connected to external speakers, JRemote would play one track and then stop. In the same situation Gizmo would play all tracks. I don't play through JRemote or Gizmo anymore though. I bought a Chromecast Audio device and have been using that instead. I control playback through the CCA with JRemote, and it works very well. I don't need to keep the phone within WiFi range during playback. However, if I ever need to play to the Motorola phone I will do it through Gizmo instead of JRemote. JRemote on the iPad has been great.

[JimH]

This thread is now off topic so I'm closing it.  Please start a new thread if you want to.