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[skifastbadly]

Not sure if this belongs in this forum or the media network session, but since the trouble seems to have started with my upgrade I thought I'd start here.

I'm running MC22 on Windows 10, playing FLAC files on a local disk.  I am playing them through my home wireless network to a Yamaha RX-A2020 receiver.   I have associated the Yamaha with the audiophile 24 bit DAC option.  The receiver has good DAC circuitry, and it sounds great.  However, since the upgrade, every once in awhile the music just stops.  MC indicates that it's still playing, the 'progress' bar is moving, but no sound.   If I re-start the file, it plays again for awhile and then stops again, but not in the same place.  It appears to be file independent as it occurs with various artists, songs, etc.

Has anybody experienced this?  Is there some change in MC22 that would require me to change a setting somewhere?

Thanks

Craig

EDIT:  I'm now running MC21 and it's playing flawlessly,  so it definitely appears to be something in MC22.

[RoderickGI]

I've noticed a change in DLNA functionality as well. My Samsung TV no longer shows up as a DLNA Renderer.

I would like to say nothing else has changed except MC, but since I last used the TV as a DLNA Renderer I have upgraded from Windows 7 to windows 10, updated the TV firmware and Apps for the first time in two years, and of course upgraded MC from 21 to 22. So I'm still looking for the culprit.

Based on what you have said, I think I will see if it still shows up in MC21.  

[RoderickGI]

Oops. I spoke too soon. My Samsung TV is showing up correctly as a DLNA renderer again this morning.

No changes on my part, although I did install a new Cable modem/router yesterday. Maybe that took a while to discover everything.

[JimH]

Maybe related to this:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106217.0

[AndrewFG]

Oops. I spoke too soon. My Samsung TV is showing up correctly as a DLNA renderer again this morning.

No changes on my part, although I did install a new Cable modem/router yesterday. Maybe that took a while to discover everything.

Problems with UPNP DLNA discovery are usually due to routing issues or firewalls. If you installed a new router, then quite likely a lot of your home devices will have received a DHCP lease from the previous router, and the new router may not completely respect or understand that. Typically DHCP leases last for 24hours, so usually things will get back to normal after that amount of time...

[RoderickGI]

Maybe related to this:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106217.0

Interesting. That may only apply to 2016 TVs though. I'm actually up to firmware version 2139 on my ~2013 TV. I also only do manual firmware updates on my TV. Automatic firmware updates sounded too scary, and the WAF would have gone through the floor if such an update failed, and couldn't be rolled back quickly.

Problems with UPNP DLNA discovery are usually due to routing issues or firewalls. If you installed a new router, then quite likely a lot of your home devices will have received a DHCP lease from the previous router, and the new router may not completely respect or understand that. Typically DHCP leases last for 24hours, so usually things will get back to normal after that amount of time...

I was thinking along those lines Andrew. However the new router is using a different IP range, 192.168.0.xx instead of 192.168.1.xx. I didn't think two device with IP address in those two different ranges would still talk to each other, with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. Anyway I pre-assign IP address via DHCP Reservation so the TV got its new address before I finished my setup, and appeared in the connected devices list with the new address alongside the HTPC, but still hadn't shown up as a DLNA renderer even then.

I'm thinking slow DLNA discovery, or the router was still updating internal tables, if that is possible. Or maybe the Firewall on the HTPC hadn't learned to accept traffic from that address range yet. Or something. The mysteries of DLNA.   But the TV has re-appeared, so all is good.  

[stevemac]

I'm thinking slow DLNA discovery

Have noticed a delay with discovery (Win 10, MC 22.0.12, Sony SRS-X77).  Haven't had a chance to diagnose

regards,

Steve

[skifastbadly]

I thought this thread was about ME   

Anyway, I haven't upgraded my router, changed any settings, upgraded any firmware, or anything else.   All I've done is upgraded from MC21 to MC22.  Nobody else is experiencing DLNA issues after the upgrade?

Thanks

[JimH]

I'm running MC22 on Windows 10, playing FLAC files on a local disk.  I am playing them through my home wireless network to a Yamaha RX-A2020 receiver.   I have associated the Yamaha with the audiophile 24 bit DAC option.  The receiver has good DAC circuitry, and it sounds great.  However, since the upgrade, every once in awhile the music just stops.  MC indicates that it's still playing, the 'progress' bar is moving, but no sound.   

That probably means that MC is doing its job and the problem is somewhere beyond.

Did you try switching the audio output to something else?  DirectSound, for example.

[bob]

Have noticed a delay with discovery (Win 10, MC 22.0.12, Sony SRS-X77).  Haven't had a chance to diagnose

regards,

Steve

This really shouldn't have changed since the most recent builds of MC 21. There wasn't anything in the DLNA discovery code that was altered.
A firewall issue or perhaps something else hogging port 1900 on the Windows box?

[skifastbadly]

That probably means that MC is doing its job and the problem is somewhere beyond.

Did you try switching the audio output to something else?  DirectSound, for example.

MC is running on my PC. Switching it to "player" outputs it through my computer speakers which appear to work fine although they sound like computer speakers.  Is that what you meant?

[bob]

MC is running on my PC. Switching it to "player" outputs it through my computer speakers which appear to work fine although they sound like computer speakers.  Is that what you meant?

Yes.
Jim was suggesting that since it would separate out general playback issues via something DLNA specific.

When you look at the Advanced DLNA options for the server on both MC 21 and 22 can you verify they are exactly the same?

Also, check the controller options (right-click on the zone for the DLNA Dac) and make sure they are the same also.

[skifastbadly]

Yes.
Jim was suggesting that since it would separate out general playback issues via something DLNA specific.

When you look at the Advanced DLNA options for the server on both MC 21 and 22 can you verify they are exactly the same?

Also, check the controller options (right-click on the zone for the DLNA Dac) and make sure they are the same also.

I understand what you're saying.  It would make sense that if MC22 is playing fine to the computer, than the problem would appear to be 'outside' MC. But, the only variable between the system that's working fine and that which is not is the version of MC.  I have checked, per your suggestion, pretty much everything I can think of regarding settings and they appear identical.   

It is not unrealistic to think that something in the way MC is handling DLNA may have changed.  I've spent some time in the software dev world and am quite aware that things aren't always as simple or bounded as they seem.  I'll keep looking.  If I'm the only person experiencing this problem, than it is likely something about my setup.  If others see funny behavior, than perhaps there's something in MC.

Thanks all

[dmitch77]

I started seeing this exact same problem after upgrading to MC22. DLNA Renderer is a Marantz SR7009 receiver. It always worked perfectly in MC21 and before. After upgrading to MC22, with no other changes anywhere, I get a "audio quits but the progress bar is still moving" failure every day. I do not see this when rendering (via Media Network, not DLNA) to another computer running MC21, only when using DLNA.

Odd thing is, I'm seeing this on the Mac version, not Windows as reported here.

There seems to be a backwards compatibility problem with this version, at least on the Mac; I can't load my library when launching MC21 in order to verify DLNA settings. (Though, why would they differ? Shouldn't the MC22 install have just taken up where I left MC21? I didn't have to reconfigure from scratch...)

[bob]

The only changes to DLNA that I see in the log between the last builds of MC 21 and the recent builds of MC 22 are the ones that were just posted in 22.0.18 regarding the DLNA use of DSP studio and the DLNA check for alive status. If the device isn't alive, the progress bar will not move at all. Prior to that release the DSP studio settings conflicted with some of the advanced Audio settings in the DLNA server section which were removed.

Summary:
22.0.18 Change DLNA Alive renderer status call and DSP changes (in 21 and all revisions of 22 < 22.0.16)
21.0.84 Allow more ways to get the TCP content length (also in 22)
21.0.76 DLNA Notify timing (also in 22)
21.0.35 Change DLNA renderer device alive status call (also in 22)

[dmitch77]

OK, thanks for looking in to this. Do you have any suggestions as to how to go about diagnosing and/or fixing the failure? I see it every day. I never saw it with MC21.

[RoderickGI]

After upgrading to MC22, with no other changes anywhere, I get a "audio quits but the progress bar is still moving" failure every day. I do not see this when rendering (via Media Network, not DLNA) to another computer running MC21, only when using DLNA.

Odd thing is, I'm seeing this on the Mac version, not Windows as reported here.

There seems to be a backwards compatibility problem with this version,<snip>

Are you trying to run a MC21 Client against a MC22 Server?
If so, you can't do that. The databases are different and they aren't compatible. The MC21 Client should be doing a version check and not even connecting to the MC22 Server. You need to be running MC22 on all PCs.

If you are trying to do the above and not getting a compatibility message, maybe the Mac version is missing that check.

Of course, if you are just running MC22 to a DLNA renderer, the above isn't an issue. I just noticed the mixed version comment bolded above and thought I would ask.

[dmitch77]

Are you trying to run a MC21 Client against a MC22 Server?
If so, you can't do that. The databases are different and they aren't compatible. The MC21 Client should be doing a version check and not even connecting to the MC22 Server. You need to be running MC22 on all PCs.

Sorry, typo on my part. Should be "I do not see this when rendering to another computer running MC22".

But, the backwards compatibility problem I referred to remains: should I not be able to quit MC22, start MC21, and have MC21 load the library I've been using for a long time?

And the big issue of course, is that MC22 with DLNA is very unreliable, in the same network (all other hardware and software the same) where MC21 worked fine.

[RCFlyer]

So if you have MC21 AND MC22 loaded on the same MAC, does each not use their own associated DB?
Is the XML file that is stored with the music/video file/folder get modified by MC21 / MC22?
So with this being the case, then once a DB has been converted, you cannot reuse it should you need to go back to MC21. You would then have to use a previous backup (done with MC21) to be able to use the database.
Is there a tag in the DB that we can look at to ensure DB compatibility?
I was not aware of the client/server having to be the same release, glad this was mentioned. This would explain why the MC21 would not connect/play files.
I am running NAS drives that are DLNA but MC only accesses then as folders/files.

[dmitch77]

So if you have MC21 AND MC22 loaded on the same MAC, does each not use their own associated DB?

There is a "Media Center 21" folder and a "Media Center 22" folder, but my Library is not in either of them. I don't want to have to build a new library every time I upgrade so my Library is in a separate place.

Is the XML file that is stored with the music/video file/folder get modified by MC21 / MC22?

I don't see any XML files in the Library folder, mostly a bunch of .jmd files, plus in Index.dat under Cache/File List Sort.

[RoderickGI]

But, the backwards compatibility problem I referred to remains: should I not be able to quit MC22, start MC21, and have MC21 load the library I've been using for a long time?

The upgrade from MC21 to MC22 involved a library format change that is not backward compatible. This is the first time this has happened since I have been using MC, back at version 18. If the library format does need to be changed at any time, it is always done at a major release upgrade. i.e. MC21 to MC22.

When you installed MC22 (at least for the Windows version), the installation process should have found the MC21 library, moved it to a new MC22 specific location, and updated it to the MC22 format. If you try to open a MC21 library in MC22 it should also be updated. If you then tried to open the same library with MC21, it shouldn't work.

If the MC22 installation process didn't find the MC21 library, you would have needed to restore an MC21 library backup into MC22, at which time the library format would have been converted.

All of this is why the Library is in a folder that is specific to the major release. If you moved the library to a non-major release specific folder, I would expect the installation process to still try to keep the two version separate. If it didn't, and just updated the library in situ, then you don't have a MC21 library any more, except in backups.

You can run two versions on a PC/Mac, but not at the same time. In general though, it isn't a good idea. For example, on Windows, if you are using MC22, close it, and then open MC21, MC21 will register some of its components with Windows in order to work properly. When you go back to MC22, it will in turn re-register its components. Regardless, you will have to use two separate libraries, and not the same one.

Note that I am using the Windows version of MC, and haven't checked what the OSX version does with the library. I would expect it to be similar though.