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[Dervishing]

MC 21.0.90 on Windows 10 laptop with Intel HD Graphics (supports up to 4K/30Hz, plus HD video, HDMI output from computer).

This worked fine for quite a while... 9 months or more since installing MC21. Then one day within the last couple of months, I opened MC21 to find all the thumbnails of video files (mostly avi, mp4, and mkv files) were black & white instead of color. When I tried to play any of them, the video remained black and white, and playback happened at what appears to be about double-speed with no audio.

NOTE -- other video players play the same files with no problem, only MC21 is misbehaving which elminates the video driver from any blame in this. For example, the Movie & TV media player in Windows 10 plays the same files at proper speed with color.

Audio playback (mostly FLAC files, music) also failed at the same time. Album art is still in color, but there's no audio and a 3 minute song "plays" in about 15 seconds, then advances to the next track in the list, "plays" that track for 15 seconds (no audio), etc. This happens when I select the default internal audio device AND when I select the AudioQuest Dragonfly USB DAC as the audio device. Again, other media players work fine with the default audio device and with the DragonFly USB DAC.

I reinstalled MC 21 and got the same result after reinstalling. I don't remember if the previous version running before this fresh install tonight was the same version number. Zero change to symptoms. There are no changes to the sytem between the time MC21 worked fine until now. I should say that the re-install tonight was actually a surprise. I have the MC21 icon on my task bar and when I click that, MC21 opens. Tonight I clicked that same icon and it went into the MC21 installer... I was planning to reintall it anyway, so I just went ahead and did it. But I have no idea why the task bar icon opened the installer instead of the already installed app.

Movies are stored on a NAS RAID drive. Music is stored on a second NAS RAID drive. Gigabit Ethernet connection from computer to router, gigabit Ethernet connection from both NAS drives to the same Ethernet router the computer is connected to.

Color Settings - Defaults
General Video settings - Red October standard, hardware video decoding when possible (no change when checked or unchecked), video clock (no change when checked or unchecked).  Display Setting automatic mode is ON. Subtitles off.

To make things even WEIRDER... before wrapping-up this post, I decided to try to play music 1 more time.... and it worked! WHY? MC21 was just sitting there open but stopped by itself after "playing" 3 tracks from an album (roughly speeding through each track in 15 seconds without any actual audio, though the graphic frequency/level left and right channel bars at the top of the MC21 window were moving as if it was playing music). MC21 was just sitting there open and doing nothing while I have been typing this post. So after the music played, I decided to try playing a video again (I tried mp4 and mkv files) and now they play at normal speed with audio but the images are still black & white. This is the first time in 2 months or so that video has played at normal speed with audio and the first time in 2 months music files have played OK. But this is also the first time I've ever had MC21 "open" and just sitting there this long... each time I've tried this in the past, I would get frustrated after 5 minutes of nothing working and close the app. I'm officially boggled.

[JimH]

That's very strange.  It's as if the machine is having severe trouble reading the files.  Antivirus is a possibility.

There is a thread called Weird Problems in my signature.   You might find other ideas there.

You could try restoring an old backup, but I doubt that it will help.

[Dervishing]

There is NO PROBLEM reading ANY of the video or music files. Other video and music players have none of the problems MC21 has (now). From the Windows 10 Movie & TV player, to other "free" video and music playing apps (Foobar2000 and VLC Media Player for example), and even a Blu-ray disc player and a UHD disc player read the same music and video files without problems.

I found a post from someone else with an earlier version of Media Center complaining about the same sort of issue... double-speed playback and black & white video. There was no solution offered for that case either and no follow-up post indicating whether the problem was ever solved. I'm just hanging in the breeze with software I paid for that doesn't work and resists all efforts to work again.

If I want to make a complete reinstallation with NOTHING saved from any previous installation (including from earlier versions of MC that were installed on this laptop), how would I go about it? It appears that MC21 still finds settings and libraries from previous installations when I do a conventional uninstall and re-install. Are there instructions for "complete and total" removal of all MC files from current and previous versions? Including removal of any breadcrumbs that may have been left behind on USB memory devices, network hard disks, etc.?

[JimH]

So to summarize, MC21 worked for 9 months and then stopped working, but it's not possible that something on your machine is different.  Do I have that right?

Please try an Internet search for the problems you are having.

[Dervishing]

To summarize: I have half a dozen media player apps that all work fine. MC21 died and refused to be ressurrected by re-installing. Internet searches turn up nothing but my post and an old post in this forum from several years ago about the same thing happening with an earlier version with no solution described or offered. Then you ignore my question about how to remove all MC21 files no matter where they might exist on my computer or network storage so I can start over with a fresh installation as if MC21 was never installed before and you give me a wise-ass answer instead. Gee thanks. I guess I'll just sit here and use every app (except MC21) on my non-crashing, non-infected, fully-functioning-in-every-possible-way computer and consider the purchase of MC21 wasted money. Sad that the full power of MC21 support amounts to "Duh, we have no idea. See ya, sucker. Go fix your hosed computer that broke our app." That's really how you want to represent JRiver? Yes, things on the computer are different. Microsoft constantly updates Windows 10. Anti-virus databases update. New video player apps get installed after MC21 crashes for a sanity check about something bad in the computer causing a problem. I create new video files and rip more CDs, SACDs, DVD-As, and Blu-ray discs to my network storage. If MC21 can't deal with those sorts of things, perhaps it's just not cut out for use in the real world.

[JimH]

To summarize: I have half a dozen media player apps that all work fine. MC21 died and refused to be ressurrected by re-installing. Internet searches turn up nothing but my post and an old post in this forum from several years ago about the same thing happening with an earlier version with no solution described or offered.

Programs don't just "die".  Something has changed on your machine.  I tried to help in my first reply, but you didn't seem interested.

Then you ignore my question about how to remove all MC21 files no matter where they might exist on my computer or network storage so I can start over with a fresh installation as if MC21 was never installed before and you give me a wise-ass answer instead. Gee thanks. I guess I'll just sit here and use every app (except MC21) on my non-crashing, non-infected, fully-functioning-in-every-possible-way computer and consider the purchase of MC21 wasted money. Sad that the full power of MC21 support amounts to "Duh, we have no idea. See ya, sucker. Go fix your hosed computer that broke our app." That's really how you want to represent JRiver? Yes, things on the computer are different. Microsoft constantly updates Windows 10. Anti-virus databases update. New video player apps get installed after MC21 crashes for a sanity check about something bad in the computer causing a problem. I create new video files and rip more CDs, SACDs, DVD-As, and Blu-ray discs to my network storage. If MC21 can't deal with those sorts of things, perhaps it's just not cut out for use in the real world.

Good luck with the problem.

[Dervishing]

Programs don't just "die".  Something has changed on your machine.  I tried to help in my first reply, but you didn't seem interested.Good luck with the problem.

"Programs don't just "die"" Really? How long have you been using computers? I'm in my 37th year of continuous use of computers and software (hardware design, coding, software development teams, hardware development teams, hardware and software support, heavy app user from CAD, automation, network. remote diagnostics, and basic apps). I have encountered endless numbers of cases where "Programs" do indeed, just "die" typically from some sort of "collision" in the code itself that happens in some specific combination of (computer) environmental and use conditions. Also often by the program "glitching out" while it is updating some file the program uses to keep itself "current" like settings, defaults, libraries, setup options... and that glitch corrupts the file so that even if you uninstall the program, that "custom" file gets left behind and when you re-install, the freshly installed version finds the previously "broken" file that happened when the software glitched. If you are doing software support, I should not have to be explaining this to you and you should never have said "Programs don't just die" because, in fact, in the real world programs DO just die... sometimes from their own issues, sometimes from temporary issues within the computer that no longer exist, and occasionally from a "hard," always-present fault in the computer. The latter being the easiest sort of problem to identify and correct (except that nothing remotely like that exists on this computer at this time). This explains why I asked about info for removing every file MC21 might leave behind when I uninstall it. I can find the EASY ones, like the file or files put in my user account, but if the problem can't be coming from a "bad" file left behind in my user account directory because I deleted those after uninstalling MC21... so if there are any other files MC21 would leave anywhere else that could have gotten "whacked" causing a fresh install to read the file and causing the same bad performance issue (no color, sometimes plays video at double speed, etc.).

As for  "I tried to help in my first reply, but you didn't seem interested.Good luck with the problem." Let's examine what you are calling "help".

"That's very strange." That's not helpful... sorry, just being honest. If it wasn't a strange problem, I never would have asked about it in the first place.


"It's as if the machine is having severe trouble reading the files." That's not helpful either, I already told you the same files are played fine with other media players and even named some of those that play the same files, from the same NAS drives, with the same driver set with zero problems. So the computer is having ZERO problems reading the files. That should be abundantly clear when apps like Microsoft Movie & TV player from Windows 10, Foobar2000, VLC Media Player, and three more media players all read and play the same files from the same NAS drives without problems. NOTHING is having trouble reading the files. So, sorry, not a helpful reply.

"Antivirus is a possibility." OK, maybe. I ignored that initially because I haven't had anti-virus software interfere with ANY app on a computer since 2004 or so. So I disabled the anti-virus software, re-opened the freshly re-installed MC21 (but without deleting any files MC21 may have created that are not in my user directory since I don't know where to look for them or if there even ARE any files MC21 would leave behind after uninstalling because you keep refusing to tell me. So mark this one potentially helpful, but disabling anti-virus did not change playback so the problem remains.

"There is a thread called Weird Problems in my signature.   You might find other ideas there." I had already looked there, before ever posting the question here. Nothing there appeared to apply to my computer or to the problem I'm having."

"You could try restoring an old backup, but I doubt that it will help." Well, this is something, but like you, I doubt it would help either and because I don't seem to be able to get any information about files MC21 may create and store at locations other than the user directory, I'm not sure WHAT to restore from an old backup. I don't want to restore the WHOLE COMPUTER from an an old backup as I would lose things I don't want to lose. It is more efficient to get rid of 100% of files MC21 installs or creates as it is being used and do a fresh install from a state that replicates a computer that never had MC21 installed before. Which is why I keep asking about locations and files I should delete to insure a complete "eradication" of all traces of MC21 to be absolutely certain that one of those files might have a bad sector or three that causes a new MC21 install to behave like the original/previous MC21 install (like the b&w video).

So I'm still back to the question you keep refusing to answer... are there files MC21 creates that are not removed by MC21 uninstall AND that are NOT located in the user directory or the MC21 install directory (in Program Files) and if so, where are they located so I can delete all of them in case one of them happened to have bad data written to it? You keep saying "something changed" -- I don't doubt that, but there nothing in the COMPUTER causing the problem because so many other media players have no problem with the same files. That points STRONGLY to the "change" being in some file that UNINSTALL doesn't remove and some file that's NOT in the user directory because I deleted those after the re-install with no change.

[JimH]

You're telling us that you're fully qualified.  Why would anyone want to help you?

Oddly, I started 37 years ago.  What month did you begin?  Maybe you have seniority.

[Dervishing]

Miscounted... 48 years, since fall 1968. So I win.

"Why would anyone want to help you?" Because it's their job. And because they don't want to be an embarrassment to their employer.

"You're telling us that you're fully qualified." No, I'm not telling you that. I'm telling you that I'm fully qualified to use the information you provide. But so far, there has been nothing but an extreme lack of useful information.

So just answer the question about files that need to be deleted after doing an uninstall to insure a new/cleaned computer before installing MC21 again and you can get me off your back.

[blgentry]

Just a few pieces of information that may or may not help.

1.  Jim H is the president of JRiver.  Not that it will change the dialog.  I'm just pointing it out because you don't seem to know this.  Again, not that it changes much.
2.  When you uninstall MC, there is an option to remove all registry entries as well.  I believe this is where the majority of the settings and configuration options are stored.
3.  I do not have a list of files that MC writes to.  I'd like to help you in this regard, but I don't know the answer.  I do know that MC typically does NOT remove your Library directory when you uninstall it.  For clarity, the Library directory is MC's database, not the media files location.  This Library (database) will usually be used upon reinstall of the product.  This is convenient in most cases.  There's a *slim* possibility that your library has some sort of corruption that is causing this issues.  Slim.  You might also remove this directory to ensure a clean starting point.
4.  MC makes database (library) backups automatically every few days.  This is what Jim was suggesting that you might restore, though he's not confident that it will fix your issue.  You could configure a new library (File > Library > Library Manager> Add library), and then restore an older Library backup.  This will leave your existing library as-is, and give you a new library, freshly initialized with your old data, to see if library corruption is an issue.
5.  While I agree that anti-virus software is generally completely non-intrusive in today's computing world, MC seems to be affected by AV software quite often.  It's probably because MC is so file-centric compared to most programs and it relies upon real time access to those files.  If something is "in the way" in the middle (like AV software), then MC can be affected.  Also, very strangely (in my mind) it's often not enough to reconfigure or disable AV software.  Many times it's necessary to completely uninstall the AV software in order to test if it is the cause of the problem.  No one is suggesting that you run without any AV software at all.  These are meant as testing measures.  So, you might want to uninstall your AV software and test again.

I can tell you're super frustrated with this process.  Sorry this has happened to you.  I'm not super good at diagnosing these types of problems, which is why I didn't speak up until now.

Strange windows based problems are... strange.    Good luck resolving your issue.

Brian.

[jmone]

FYI - Check the Audio Device Settings (Tools --> Options--> Audio--> Audio Device) as fast running Video is normally a result of the Audio Device not providing the clock and would also explain the general Audio Issues and why other progs are fine.

[JimH]

I forgot the Fortran programming I did on punch cards in 1964.

[Dervishing]

Just a few pieces of information that may or may not help.

1.  Jim H is the president of JRiver.  Not that it will change the dialog.  I'm just pointing it out because you don't seem to know this.  Again, not that it changes much.  My sympathies.

2.  When you uninstall MC, there is an option to remove all registry entries as well.  I believe this is where the majority of the settings and configuration options are stored.

I used the Windows uninstall the first time. Using the MC21 uninstaller, I see options to remove registry entries and remove library. So I just did that and removed both. Need to finish three jobs in the next 9 days so may have to back-burner more progress on this for a bit till I have some time. But tanks a bunch for the reasonable reply!

3.  [snip]
4.  [snip]
5.  While I agree that anti-virus software is generally completely non-intrusive in today's computing world, MC seems to be affected by AV software quite often.  It's probably because MC is so file-centric compared to most programs and it relies upon real time access to those files.  If something is "in the way" in the middle (like AV software), then MC can be affected.  Also, very strangely (in my mind) it's often not enough to reconfigure or disable AV software.  Many times it's necessary to completely uninstall the AV software in order to test if it is the cause of the problem.  No one is suggesting that you run without any AV software at all.  These are meant as testing measures.  So, you might want to uninstall your AV software and test again.

Ugh! Are there any specific anti-virus apps that are especially problematic with MC21? And any that work especially well with MC21? I might be willing to change if AVG is especially problematic. Will look into the anti-virus possibility as soon as I have some time.

I can tell you're super frustrated with this process.  Sorry this has happened to you.  I'm not super good at diagnosing these types of problems, which is why I didn't speak up until now.

Strange windows based problems are... strange.    Good luck resolving your issue.

Brian.

[JimH]

Please use the quote tags.  [ quote ] and [ /quote ] but without the spaces.

[JimH]

5.  While I agree that anti-virus software is generally completely non-intrusive in today's computing world, MC seems to be affected by AV software quite often.

That is absolutely not true.  The difference may only be the fact that I've kept a log of the problems for a while.  Antivirus programs, in general, are a big problem. 

To test, uninstall the antivirus.  Disabling is often not enough. 

[Dervishing]

I finally had a little time to do a full uninstall of MC21... I used the MC21 uninstaller instead of Windows uninstaller(Control Panel). I selected the 2 options... delete registry entries and delete libraries. The uninstall appeared to go fine but when I did a search after the uninstall for anything jriver or MC20 or Media Center, I found folders with MC21 libraries in it. So I manually deleted those. I then uninstalled the AVG anti-virus software and turned off Windows Firewall "just in case". With the computer rebooted after the uninstalls, I downloaded MC21 again and did a fresh install using "Express" mode (or default, whatever it's called). Did the file associations again... finished the install. Started MC21, dragged a video file into MC21 and it played back in Black & White, but at the correct speed.

Just to be a jerk, I opened 3 more media playback apps and started the same video playing in each one, so the video was playing in 4 different windows at the same time (not at the same point in time for all of the videos... several minutes running time separating each instance. The result was 3 windows playing in color with the MC21 window playing in black & white.

Since having the anti-virus removed entirely didn't fix the black & white video problem... any ideas what to try next? I have since reinstalled anti-virus and turned Windows Firewall back on. Using a relatively new 32" Samsung TV as a computer monitor (HDMI connection to laptop). That can't have any bearing on this can it? I have had MC21 video in color on this TV/monitor for several months before everything turned black & white. I haven't tried looking at video using the laptop's built-in display in more than 6 months so perhaps that's something I should look into later in the week also.

[Hendrik]

The Black&White problem is usually caused by the color settings in the graphics cards control panel being wrong, typically saturation being at zero. Some other (typically cross-platform) players like VLC ignore these settings since they don't use a Windows video renderer, but their own creation.
Or the graphics driver is broken to some degree. Updating it might help.

Or as an alternative, you somehow managed to change the color settings in MC without knowing it, but if you deleted the entire library that's probably not it.
You can verify those by going to "Color Controls", either from the right click menu during playback, or Player -> Display Options. Try Reset to Defaults, or just generally messing with the values, or something like that.

[Dervishing]

Got color back with your info above re. saturation set to 0. Thanks!

That setting is in a page of the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel I haven't opened in more than a year. So I opened Device Manager and looked at the Intel HD Graphics devie and went to the Driver tab to see the install date... 6-13-2016. I think I first noticed the B&W problem maybe 5 days or a week after that and I probably didn't use MC21 at all between 6-13 and my first encounter with the problem. So that driver must have been part of one of the automatic updates that happened on or around June 13.

There are 2 sections of the Video > Color Enhancement part of the Intel HD Graphics control panel... standard color correction and Input range. Both have options of Application Settings or Driver Settings. Both of these had "Driver Settings" selected. The last time I opened this page of the control panel it was to change both of those settings to Application Settings. Today, both of them were set back to Driver Settings making the sliders (Brightness, Contrast, Hue, Saturation) active again and the Saturation slider was 0. Of course in poking around, I only opened parts of the Intel HD Graphic Control panel I adjust with any regularity (mostly the section for setting up 1 or 2 displays which has different color & grayscale controls that were all fine).

So the double-speed playback issue I had at the beginning of this problem went away by itself (as far as I can tell) and the b&w problem turned out to be a driver update that didn't use the previous driver settings. Computers... gotta love 'em. Thanks at pointing me at the saturation setting.