Topic: Windows 10 crash with exclusive mode (tidal) (Read 18030 times)

Avidan · « **on:** September 19, 2016, 02:13:46 pm »

Hi,

While using jriver for streaming audio in exclusive mode from tidal to my DAC windows is crashing when I start to play.
I use wasapi exclusive mode with Windows 10 pro 64bit.
Please help

Thx

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #1 on:** September 19, 2016, 03:33:34 pm »

Try saving and posting a log (Help>Logging) just after you restart from the crash.
To keep log size small, clear the log first, then create the crash, restart/recover from crash, then save the log file (it will contain a file "previous.log" of the events before the crash).

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #2 on:** September 19, 2016, 03:47:51 pm »

Windows is crashing? As in a blue screen of death (BSOD)?

Avidan · « **Reply #3 on:** September 19, 2016, 11:51:55 pm »

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
I attached the log file.
Regarding the blue screen, actually the system just shout down and restart it self. No blue screen

.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2016, 06:18:18 am »

Tidal has not been able to fix this. I got frequent BSODs. Solution or work around is to NOT check exclusive access in the Tidal win app.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2016, 06:29:19 am »

You should be able to use wasapi exclusive in mc. I'm not tech knowledgeable enough here, but intuitively I would think it strange if two applications should run with exclusive access at the same time.

Avidan · « **Reply #6 on:** September 20, 2016, 10:12:58 am »

Hi, unchecking exclusive mode in tidal the windows will not crach but i'm not sure that it's working in bit perfect as you can see signal is going through the windows mixer.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2016, 01:14:52 am »

Is it? How do you see that?

Avidan · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2016, 11:05:50 am »

If I open the playback devices I can see signal meter light.
While going through real exclusive mode this light meter is off.
I'm not sure though that this indicates that it's not bit perfect.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2016, 02:34:55 pm »

Quote from: Avidan on September 21, 2016, 11:05:50 am

If I open the playback devices I can see signal meter light.
While going through real exclusive mode this light meter is off.
I'm not sure though that this indicates that it's not bit perfect.

Ah didn't think of that, good catch. I see that too now. I have had a lengthy discussion with Tidal support the past months, but this has not been fixed. Now, I wouldn't know whether this is a JRiver WDM or a Tidal issue. But the combo with Tidal using Exclusive mode for sure causes some nasty BSODs.

Avidan · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2016, 03:15:43 am »

Thank you for the Input, hope it will be solved soon.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2016, 03:27:18 am »

I posted a renewed request at Tidal's support pages today. Cross fingers.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2016, 07:23:57 am »

Got answer from Tidal today: They will release a new Win PC app next week, and I was asked to test and see if the problem still persists and report back.

Looking forward to the new version, not looking forward to just wait for new BSODs...

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2016, 02:58:34 am »

I have installed a new version of Tidal PC app on two machines today and yesterday (v 2.0.1.85). No BSOD after a few minutes playback on any of the machines, with Exclusive mode activated. Looks promising.

bmmoser · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2016, 07:43:08 am »

I get similar issue with MiniDSP usbStreaner. I will try to get logs for.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2016, 08:44:01 am »

Quote from: bmmoser on September 29, 2016, 07:43:08 am

I get similar issue with MiniDSP usbStreaner. I will try to get logs for.

You mean you get similar issues with older versions of the Tidal app or this brand new one?

Solderman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 30, 2016, 07:54:41 pm »

No, I am sorry to muddy the waters

I posted my experience because I am getting similar crashes with Win10 (BSOD "IRQ Less than or equal" or similar...). To be fair I was getting this with the older version of Win10 and also the latest version that came out this past week. My DAC is a MiniDSP USBStreamer in ADAT mode, not a Tidal. My PC is a Dell Latitude 2120 (32-bit). It is now running latest Win10, JRiver MC and DAC drivers. It hasn't crashed (yet). If I learned nothing else from this thread, I have turned on the logging in MC so will capture any crashes and complain in this space

I hope OP gets his issue fixed too.

Avidan · « **Reply #17 on:** October 01, 2016, 11:04:19 pm »

Quote from: Trumpetguy on September 29, 2016, 02:58:34 am

I have installed a new version of Tidal PC app on two machines today and yesterday (v 2.0.1.85). No BSOD after a few minutes playback on any of the machines, with Exclusive mode activated. Looks promising.

Hi,
I have update tidal to (2.0.1.85 version) played with exclusive mode and nothing changed for me, still have BSOD.
what am i missing?

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #18 on:** October 02, 2016, 02:03:53 am »

Don't know, and too bad. You should report it on Tidal's support forum if you have narrowed it down and pretty sure it is linked to Tidal.

For me, no problems after a few hours use on one computer. I'll report back when I have tested a second one.

winterwolf · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2017, 12:07:16 am »

Same issue with JRiver 23. Bluescreens with Tidal and Exclusive mode.

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2017, 07:15:45 am »

Did you try this?

Quote from: Trumpetguy on September 29, 2016, 02:58:34 am

I have installed a new version of Tidal PC app on two machines today and yesterday (v 2.0.1.85). No BSOD after a few minutes playback on any of the machines, with Exclusive mode activated. Looks promising.

winterwolf · « **Reply #21 on:** August 03, 2017, 01:23:12 am »

I have the latest PC version of TIDAL installed 2.1.8.289 (W: 2.3.6--8) (NP: 2.4.0)

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2017, 06:31:23 am »

Try adjusting buffers downward.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2017, 05:17:59 am »

Just tested new Tidal version 2.1.9.308, and still BSoD with JRiver WDM when playing Masters in Exclusive mode. Works well when outputting directly to DAC, however, so again this points in the direction of WDM being the problem. Masters play back as 88.2/24 when Tidal is decoding the MQA material to PCM.

As pointed out in at least on other thread, the WDM driver lists 88.2 as supported format (under the "supported formats" tab), whereas it is not listed under the "Advanced" tab under the Default format drop-down list. Again, don't know if that is relevant.

winterwolf · « **Reply #24 on:** August 12, 2017, 12:30:56 am »

Can we please get a fix? I am tired when in a Tidal playlist randomly a Masters file appears and I BOSD every single time with a JRiver WDM error.

Thx
-- MM

amdismal · « **Reply #25 on:** September 01, 2017, 09:29:20 am »

I get this too, is the consensus that it's a Tidal issue or MC? I'm on Win10.

amdismal · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2017, 08:02:58 am »

You know there's a difference between a fix and a workaround? ;-)

I have been able to output bit perfect Tidal including masters to MC, as follows:

Install ASIO4ALL from www.asio4all.de
Install the HiFi cable from www.vb-audio.com

Set the tidal output to HiFi cable input. In the settings for that, choose exclusive mode and fixed volume

In ASIO4ALL, choose the HiFi cable

In MC, do File > Open live > Asio line in, and choose ASIO4ALL. Welcome to bit perfect streaming of high resolution audio with no BSOD.

The only problem is, every time you change the resolution you need to go to the Configure ASIO line in, within MC, and choose the sample rate. This is actually less onerous than it sounds. The sound breaks up, playing at the wrong speed, if you have it wrong - nothing like a BSOD or full volume noise at least.

I can't really explain why Tidal can't play to ASIO4ALL or why MC can't see the HiFi cable output as an ASIO input. Presumably because of reasons.

I would really like the MC WDM driver to be fixed, I'm sure that's where the problem is. I'm happy to upgrade to v23 and/or help with testing. If it's not, I may have to move to Reaper for my DSP system.

winterwolf · « **Reply #27 on:** September 19, 2017, 09:34:56 am »

Tidal send me a note today with a link to a version that has the BSOD fixed. Just wait for the next update and it should be fixed for everyone.

--WW

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #28 on:** September 19, 2017, 02:52:14 pm »

That's good news, even if I believe it when I actually see it. A few weeks now the evidence has been against WDM, not Tidal being the problem. But hey, if it works, all's good. Could you please post the version number of the new build?

winterwolf · « **Reply #29 on:** September 20, 2017, 11:02:44 pm »

2.1.11.2 (W: 2.3.7--2) (NP: 2.4.3)

amdismal · « **Reply #30 on:** October 07, 2017, 09:37:38 am »

I asked Tidal for this version, and they said to contact JRiver, as the problem was with them...

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #31 on:** October 21, 2017, 10:20:31 am »

We are going in circles here, it seems. But Tidal's response are in line with what I have reported earlier. The challenge is to get JRiver's attention.

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** October 21, 2017, 10:52:29 am »

It's not clear whose problem this is, but if it happens only with exclusive mode in Tidal, we're not going to spend any time on it. Isn't exclusive mode only used for MQA?

RD James · « **Reply #33 on:** October 21, 2017, 04:09:27 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 21, 2017, 10:52:29 am

It's not clear whose problem this is, but if it happens only with exclusive mode in Tidal, we're not going to spend any time on it. Isn't exclusive mode only used for MQA?

I also get BSODs when trying to use exclusive mode with Foobar2000, and I'm not prepared to test it with anything else on this PC.

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** October 21, 2017, 04:24:16 pm »

Quote from: RD James on October 21, 2017, 04:09:27 pm

I also get BSODs when trying to use exclusive mode with Foobar2000, and I'm not prepared to test it with anything else on this PC.

I saw that, but it still doesn't change what we will do.

RD James · « **Reply #35 on:** October 21, 2017, 06:25:53 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 21, 2017, 04:24:16 pm

I saw that, but it still doesn't change what we will do.

To be clear: I have no intention of using Foobar with the JRiver WDM driver, but it points to there being an issue with the driver, rather than it being specific to Tidal.

JimH · « **Reply #36 on:** October 21, 2017, 06:53:44 pm »

Good to know.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #37 on:** October 22, 2017, 01:50:53 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 21, 2017, 10:52:29 am

It's not clear whose problem this is, but if it happens only with exclusive mode in Tidal, we're not going to spend any time on it. Isn't exclusive mode only used for MQA?

No, it is not clear, but I think it is a reasonable amount of indications of wdm driver is being the problem.
And to clarify, Exclusive mode in Tidal is not linked to MQA in any way. Exclusive mode in Tidal is like Exclusive mode elsewhere, where WDM is used exclusively by Tidal sound output (PCM), and one can see this in Windows audio devices that there is no activity on the WDM driver VU meter.

Tidal music catalogue consists of two parts, the ordinary catalogue (plays back as PCM 16/44.1) and the Masters catalogue, which plays back either as PCM (24/and either 88.2 or 96, not sure) or as a MQA encoded digital stream. PCM/MQA playback is a user setting, and since I do not own a MQA decoding DAC, I play back as PCM. Anything MQA related is therefore irrelevant for this discussion (at least I think it is). The problem at hand is with the Masters catalogue tracks decoded as PCM in Tidal, and output as some hires PCM stream. This stream invariably causes bsod when wdm driver is the receiving audio device. And it only occurs when Tidal is using WDM driver exclusively.

Trumpetguy · « **Reply #38 on:** October 22, 2017, 01:59:34 pm »

And just checked again, playing Masters tracks decoded to PCM with Exclusive setting on to another audio device on the same computer does not cause bsod.

AXE81 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 25, 2017, 11:04:39 am »

Hi everyone,
I created this account specially for this discussion and I want you to know that the problem is because of the last available updates of Windows 10.
How I discovered this? I re- installed Windows using it without updates and Tidal program in exclusive mode and no problem occurred.
I updated Windows and the problem reappeared, then I uninstalled all updates and then it worked perfectly.
I also have another laptop, with Windows 7, with all updates, inclusive Tidal and it works with no problems.
Note!
If the drivers of your DAC are only for Windows 7 and 8, not managing Windows 10, the program will not work in exclusive
I hope this info will help.
Cheers!

amdismal · « **Reply #40 on:** November 20, 2017, 06:02:30 am »

Quote from: JimH on October 21, 2017, 10:52:29 am

It's not clear whose problem this is, but if it happens only with exclusive mode in Tidal, we're not going to spend any time on it. Isn't exclusive mode only used for MQA?

Exclusive mode is nothing to do with MQA, it's a general setting used with ASIO devices to bypass the Windows mixer. It's what all us neurotic audiophiles use to ensure the sound is bit-perfect.

It really looks like this is a problem with the MC WDM driver. Are you really not interested in fixing something that causes a BSOD for your paying users?

JimH · « **Reply #41 on:** November 20, 2017, 06:39:40 am »

There was a fix for WDM in one of the latest builds of MC23. It's on the MC23 board.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #42 on:** November 20, 2017, 06:40:05 am »

The BSOD issue with the WDM driver has been fixed in the latest MC23 build.

EDIT: Jim ninja'd me!

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Author Topic: Windows 10 crash with exclusive mode (tidal) (Read 18030 times)