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Author Topic: Microsoft Surface Dial  (Read 7682 times)

Gadgety

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Microsoft Surface Dial
« on: October 27, 2016, 09:43:17 am »

Has JRiver development seen the Microsoft Surface Dial? Any consideration to include control over JRiver through the Surface Dial?
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JimH

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 10:12:05 am »

It's too soon to say.  It looks interesting, but I'm not sure it would be an improvement over a remote.

Microsoft's announcements yesterday, at The Verge:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/26/13418262/microsoft-event-announcements-vr-headset-creators-update-surface-studio
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AndrewFG

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 11:09:04 am »


Microsoft's announcements yesterday, at The Verge:


Interesting indeed. It looks as Microsoft has got their mojo back. Nice to see that.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 07:41:53 pm »

It looks as Microsoft has got their mojo back.

I don't think so;

They have all but cancelled any future development for the Microsoft Band, with no promise there will be a Band 3. They have disbanded/sacked the team involved. So my Band 2 is going to languish without software updates or improvements until it becomes useless.

They have all but cancelled any future development for Windows 10 Mobile. It is STILL in not much better than BETA condition. Although the core functions work well, some things don't work well at all. Integration with older software (Office 2010) is non-existent. Still not many Apps. They have disbanded/sacked the team involved. So my Lumia 650 is going to languish without software updates or improvements until it becomes useless. But where is the Surface Phone?

Even Windows 10 is still as flaky as can be. The more I use it, the more I see it is a mishmash of Windows 7 functionality and new Windows 10 functionality. For example, the old Control Panel still exists, but so do the new Windows Settings functions, which often don't work, and certainly search of Settings doesn't work. (Go into Windows Settings and search for "Display". Nothing found! Not, I upgraded, didn't do a new installation, and won't, but that shouldn't make a difference.) Microsoft Edge is a near useless work in process. On the mobile it is all I have, and it isn't good. On the desktop Internet Explorer has been giving me all sorts of trouble recently, and Microsoft Edge is STILL the default browser in some instances even though I have made IE the default everywhere. I have been force to use Google Chrome recently just to get things done.

Microsoft are abandoning their consumer base in favour of the corporate world. They are chasing Apple's market instead of their own. They are trying to make all their products subscription based, which does not fly with me, and I'm sure many users. My Office 2010 still works fine, and will for many years, or should, if they don't break it. They are trying to steal other company's mojo. It wont' work. I read a good discussion yesterday about how Apple and Android are creeping into the work place, because people use those products at home, so they want to use them at work, and hence use something familiar. Some are saying that Microsoft is going to become the next IBM. Profitable, but who knows who they are, other than IT professionals?

However, their hardware does still seem to be good. The AIO Surface Studio seems like a good idea, and nicely executed. If I was a graphic designer I would certainly consider it, if I didn't already have $100,000 invested in Apple hardware.

The future is going to be different. Microsoft don't even know what mojo is.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

mwillems

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 09:25:45 pm »

I'm a big fan of the surface line (I'm typing this on a Surface Pro 4), and the surface line is one of the more profitable arms of Microsoft right now, but I'm closer than ever to ditching Windows entirely.  Windows 10 has been a frustrating festival of hidden settings, narrowing of configuration options, and lack of respect for the user.

I've been using a microsoft OS since windows 3.0 (and MSDOS 5), and I always loved windows (over apple) because I felt like it left me alone to do as I pleased and I could tailor things to suit myself.  Since win 10 I've had to re-do half my settings (never exactly the same set) five times in the last year because some settings revert on every major update, and occasionally on minor updates too.  I've had updates that took half an hour start with no confirmation in the middle of movies.  And windows calls home with telemetry literally hundreds of times a day (265 attempts today on one computer!). I ultimately had to block windows telemetry in the hosts file on my router because it was eating huge amounts of bandwidth (10Mb/s or so) for unknowable reasons (not related to updates). 

So even though I love the SP4, I'm increasingly done with Windows.  I moved my desktop to Linux shortly after Windows 10 dropped, and I'm slowly migrating the "public" computers in my house. Linux has it's share of problems, but lack of respect for user control and user choice are not among them.  Unfortunately (and unsurprisingly) the SP4 isn't the most linux-compatible piece of hardware, so as soon as I can find a linux-compatible 2-in-1 with a pen, I'll probably be selling my surface.  I'll be sad to see it go as it's a beautiful piece of hardware.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 11:40:27 pm »

Windows 10 has been a frustrating festival of hidden settings, narrowing of configuration options, and lack of respect for the user.

Truth!

The Microsoft Surface Dial won't do anything to fix that either.

For me, Windows 1.0 and definitely DOS 3.0, but I think DOS 1.1 for a while. Certainly Lotus 1-2-3 1A/1.1 through to release 3. So a long time customer, but just about fed up with Windows and Microsoft now. I just don't want to have to go back to geeking it up with Linux.  :(
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

RD James

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2016, 04:27:02 am »

For example, the old Control Panel still exists, but so do the new Windows Settings functions, which often don't work, and certainly search of Settings doesn't work. (Go into Windows Settings and search for "Display". Nothing found! Not, I upgraded, didn't do a new installation, and won't, but that shouldn't make a difference.)
This is changing in the next update. The shortcut to the control panel is gone and they're moving everything into Settings.
This is actually really inconvenient for me because there are still "legacy" control panel apps that I need access to. You can get to the control panel, there just isn't a convenient shortcut any more.
 
I generally agree with most of your points though. Windows 10 is a miserable experience on my computers.
The Start Menu and taskbar break at least once a day - often several times a day.
I can't re-organize items pinned to applications for some reason. It just doesn't work.
Notifications are useless often coming in very late if at all. (seems tied to the start menu breaking)
The start menu/screen itself is a UX disaster.

I'm seriously considering a switch back to macOS. The issue is that I would probably need a "hackintosh" since they don't offer the hardware that I need. Both thanks to their neglect of desktop hardware, and what they choose to put inside their systems.

However, their hardware does still seem to be good. The AIO Surface Studio seems like a good idea, and nicely executed. If I was a graphic designer I would certainly consider it, if I didn't already have $100,000 invested in Apple hardware.
I'd much rather it was a $2500 Cintiq competitor than a $3000 AIO with two year old notebook parts in the base.
That's the problem with AIO systems like it and the iMac. You have a beautiful screen that you can't do anything with once the computer inside outlives its usefulness.
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JimH

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2016, 05:51:31 am »

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RoderickGI

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 06:13:36 pm »

This is changing in the next update. The shortcut to the control panel is gone and they're moving everything into Settings.
This is actually really inconvenient for me because there are still "legacy" control panel apps that I need access to. You can get to the control panel, there just isn't a convenient shortcut any more.

That just shows that Windows 10 was half baked in the first place. It wasn't finished, and still isn't, and still won't be after this next update.  :( >:(
 

I'd much rather it was a $2500 Cintiq competitor than a $3000 AIO with two year old notebook parts in the base.
That's the problem with AIO systems like it and the iMac. You have a beautiful screen that you can't do anything with once the computer inside outlives its usefulness.

I read comments along those lines yesterday. I must admit, I like the form and screen most about the Surface Studio, mostly because it is a touch screen and how it can be lowered to draw, raised to use with traditional applications.

I've always liked the Wacom gear, but never had enough justification to buy. The built in touch on the Surface Studio might just be a Wacom Cintiq killer. But yeah, if the hardware inside isn't up to date, it would be useless pretty quickly.

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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

RD James

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2016, 08:31:26 am »

That just shows that Windows 10 was half baked in the first place. It wasn't finished, and still isn't, and still won't be after this next update.  :( >:(
That's agile development for you.
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Hendrik

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2016, 09:46:13 am »

Everyone is moving away from "finished" software. There is literally no such thing anymore, and one needs to adjust their expectations accordingly. Long gone is the time of a fixed feature set without changes for half a decade, here is the time of frequent feature updates (~yearly or more).

As with everything this is a double-edged sword. For one you get new things faster and even "design" issues have a chance of being resolved without waiting 5 years, on the other hand it can feel like you have an incomplete product.
But it is what it is, and its what we have - and what everyone is doing.

So in short, it will never "be finished", just accept that and stop worrying about that aspect.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2016, 06:12:36 pm »

I have no problem with agile development or moving feature sets. I used to get programs written as proof of concept for software sales presentations I did. I was in front of the bleeding edge then, meeting prospective customer expectations.

But the Control Panel vs Windows 10 Settings issue is like having a five speed manual car with gears 1, 3, and 4 on the stick shift beside you, with 2 and 5 on an auxiliary stick shift, in the back seat! I wouldn't even mind that, if the Settings search found and launched the Control Panel app. But it doesn't, and there is no indication that the Control Panel app even exists. You have to know it exists to go looking for it.

New Windows users just starting with Windows 10 would be lost.

Anyway, I have been accepting it, as I do for JRiver, but I have been expecting Window 10 to improve, and it really hasn't. We shall see with this next update.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

kr4

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Now that the Microsoft Surface Dial is out, why won't it work with JRiver?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2019, 10:12:56 am »

I have been playing with it for a bit in order to get it to control Volume Up/Down and Pause/Resume to no avail.  I have programmed the "Wheel" functions in Win10 with the JRiver keyboards shortcuts in several ways but, nonetheless, the Dial continues to only Scroll Up/Down.

Sure, this is probably a Microsoft/Win issue but I want to know:
1.  Has anyone else tried this device?
2.  Has anyone successfully changed its function from the default Scroll Up/Down to another?
3.  Can the JRiver team consider looking into making this handy device effective with JRiver?
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Kal Rubinson
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wer

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 02:40:12 am »

I've used the Dial.  It's a nice device for what it is, and well made.

Someone on the forums reported it worked as a volume control, as I recall.  I personally haven't used it with JRiver.

You can customize the dial so it sends keystrokes, so no effort on JRiver's part should be necessary.
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kr4

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 08:21:32 am »

You can customize the dial so it sends keystrokes, so no effort on JRiver's part should be necessary.
Thanks but I did that and it does not work.
Someone on the forums reported it worked as a volume control, as I recall.  I personally haven't used it with JRiver.
Just hoping that someone like that will pop up with a useful insight.
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Kal Rubinson
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JimH

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2019, 10:30:11 am »

I have a Dial.  I just got volume to work in MC.

https://pureinfotech.com/setup-surface-dial-windows-10/#customize_surface_dial_windows10

In MC, press and hold the Dial until the Dial menu shows up.  Then select volume.
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kr4

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2019, 11:11:10 am »

In MC, press and hold the Dial until the Dial menu shows up.  Then select volume.
Duh.  That works but somehow I had not seen that instruction before.  Thanks.

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Kal Rubinson
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wer

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2019, 04:39:11 pm »

Thanks but I did that and it does not work.Just hoping that someone like that will pop up with a useful insight.

For keystrokes to work (for any app, not just MC) the app either has to have the input focus, or be trapping hotkeys.  MC won't receive keystrokes from the Dial, or even your keyboard, if you have MC minimized/backgrounded.
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kr4

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Re: Microsoft Surface Dial
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2019, 10:03:14 am »

For keystrokes to work (for any app, not just MC) the app either has to have the input focus, or be trapping hotkeys.  MC won't receive keystrokes from the Dial, or even your keyboard, if you have MC minimized/backgrounded.
Thanks.  I was aware of that.  Add to the list that MC will not respond if one of its own pop-up windows/notices is on-screen.
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Kal Rubinson
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