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[greynolds]

I'm trying to configure a Media Network DLNA server instance to allow my Oppo BDP-10x series players to access the following:

1) Windows Media Center recordings in the .wtv file format that have been imported into my JRiver database.  The Oppo won't even list the .wtv files if I configure my DLNA view to present them.  It also won't show these files if I access the folder they're located in via an SMB share connection from the Oppo.  But part of the point of DLNA is to be able to convert incompatible files into something that can be played.  Can this be done, preferably without re-encoding the audio or video (transcoding to a compatible container is obviously acceptable), as I believe the underlying encoding in the .wtv files is something the Oppo can play just fine.

2) I've ripped my entire Bluray collection to BDMV folder structures.  If I access these on the Oppo via the DLNA server, they show up as .ts files with only 2 channel LPCM audio.  Despite the fact that the video looks excellent, I'm not sure if the video is just being transcoded or if it's being re-encoded.  But I'd like to maintain the original audio (Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master Audio, etc.) instead of having it converted to 2 channel LPCM.  Is this also possible?  If so, what do I need to do in my DLNA configuration?

I've attached screenshots of the current DLNA server configuration.

Thanks!

[greynolds]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  Should I post this in the media server sub forum instead?

[JimH]

I can't read the text on your images.  Conversion is set on the server side if you're using DLNA.

What you're asking for may be beyond the capabilities of DLNA.

A device may have different capabilities when connected directly vs by DLNA.

[greynolds]

Thanks for your response, Jim.

I can't read the text on your images.

If I click on the images, they open up full size and I can read them just fine...

Conversion is set on the server side if you're using DLNA.

What you're asking for may be beyond the capabilities of DLNA.

A device may have different capabilities when connected directly vs by DLNA.

Yes, I understand that conversion is set on the server side, but it's not clear to me how JRiver determines ~when~ it should perform conversions.

I'll need to double check to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that if I play a .mkv file via DLNA, the Oppo ends up getting the original audio (ie: Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio), which should mean the Oppo is capable of receiving audio that hasn't been converted.

That said, I realize that what I'm looking for with item 2 might not be possible, but I'm puzzled why the files mentioned in item 1 don't show up at all on the Oppo side.  My expectation is that they should at least show up as .ts files with 2 channel audio just like the ripped Bluray movies do (given that the movies show up as .ts files which clearly isn't the original file format).

[AndrewFG]

In MC DLNA server settings, try either Always Convert or Original. The setting Only Convert When Necessary is IMHO quite useless.

[greynolds]

In MC DLNA server settings, try either Always Convert or Original. The setting Only Convert When Necessary is IMHO quite useless.

Thanks for the reply.

Going with "Original" doesn't work; the movies show up as MP4 files, but won't actually play (I get an unsupported format error on the Oppo) and the .wtv files still don't show up at all.

Going with "Always Convert" allows both items to play, but audio still ends up being converted to stereo LPCM and it looks like the video is going through a CPU intensive conversion, which isn't desirable.

It looks like this experiment just isn't going to work.  Too bad, because JRiver's DLNA custom views make it easy to organize how the media files get presented so TV shows can be grouped by series-season-episode, movies that are located on different drives can be presented in an alphabetized list or presented by genre, etc.

With SMB share access from the Oppo, I'm stuck with however the files are stored on the drives and what their file names are; the metadata doesn't get used to organize the content.

I can obviously just use JRiver's Theater View, which is what I've been doing; it would just be nice to have options available.

[AndrewFG]

If you want to verify the formats that the Oppo can and cannot play, then download the DMRA from my sig and run the tests on it.

As far as I remember it makes no claim to support Wtv files, so in other words you will have to transcode the files to another format for the Oppo to be able to play them.

If your PC does not have enough power to transcode such tracks on the fly, then you could instead try transcoding them manually beforehand. (Or upgrade your PC).

[jmone]

Sounds like you want a "remux" option (eg leave the Audio/Video as is but change the container from say BD / WTV to TS).  There has been talk about expanding the profiles available including a remux one but it has not yet reached the top of the pile.

[greynolds]

If you want to verify the formats that the Oppo can and cannot play, then download the DMRA from my sig and run the tests on it.

As far as I remember it makes no claim to support Wtv files, so in other words you will have to transcode the files to another format for the Oppo to be able to play them.

If your PC does not have enough power to transcode such tracks on the fly, then you could instead try transcoding them manually beforehand. (Or upgrade your PC).

Correct, the Oppo does not directly support the .wtv container.  But the codecs in the .wtv container are supported, at least via SMB shares (MPEG-2 video and AC3 audio); so as jmone suggests, I'm looking for a "rumux" option to place the audio and video into a container the Oppo supports via DLNA.  The key here may be what the Oppo supports via DLNA as that may be much more limited than what the Oppo supports via SMB (which is fairly extensive).

It's not that my PC doesn't have enough power to handle transcoding, it's that I want to maintain the original audio and video quality and also don't want the PC doing extra work that really shouldn't be needed.  Like I said, I do have other ways to watch the content; using DLNA would be a nice convenient way to watch it via the Oppo since it would allow me to organize the media nicely.

I'll take a look at the DMRA in your sig and see what's involved in running the test you mention.

Thanks guys!

Edit: There's already a report for the Oppo BDP-103 (which should cover the entire BDP-10x family).  It looks like only 2 channel audio is supported, which makes the an entire exercise a non starter, unfortunately.  I certainly have no idea if that's an inherent DLNA limitation or something Oppo could add support for.  If that latter, it's something I could approach them with via beta tester channels.

[AndrewFG]

  There has been talk about expanding the profiles available including a remux one but it has not yet reached the top of the pile.

Apropos this, I have been proposing to JRiver for years the following improvement..

Today MC offers two fixed DLNA profile options either "Original" or "Always Convert to XX Format". My proposal is to add a third option "Automatic". In Automatic mode, before attempting to stream a track to a renderer, MC would first call the renderer's GetProtocolInfo method to discover what media formats the renderer supports, and then based on the respective ProtocolInfo response, MC would choose automatically the best quality, and compatible, format to serve.

Depending on the ProtocolInfo response the choice of "best quality format" would be scored based on a weighting algorithm as follows..

• Original, if the renderer supports it
• If not, then a lossless transcode (or remux) of the original
• If not, then a lossy transcode (or remux) of the original

( My DMRA does such a GetProtocolInfo test as described above, and indeed it does make a "best quality format" weighting to indicate the best format for MC to push out for various input formats, so I can prove that such an approach is possible for MC. (I even offered to help them code it). However the JRiver guys have other priorities than implementing such an Automatic mode. )

[eddyshere]

The "problem" lies with the oppo. Over DLNA bdmv "pull & push" is a hit and miss....mostly miss. The perfect way to play from a server to oppo is "pull" from the oppo not from a DLNA server but directly with its own browser over SMB.
Now Oppo has restricted bdmv and iso playback from SMB. BDMV is broken down into TS thus disabling full BD menu handling and the Iso don't even show up in oppos browser.
The only way out is to mod the oppo. I modded mine with the offering you find when googling "BD-mod". Works perfectly.
Now of course if Jrivercould find a way to "override" DLNA headers(which I don't know if it's even feasible) owners of modded oppos would be in heaven 21. You could then use the brilliant library browsing (jremote) and "push" the bdmv folder or iso file as such to the oppo which should(??) be able to start playback. But I highly doubt this would work out.

[greynolds]

The "problem" lies with the oppo. Over DLNA bdmv "pull & push" is a hit and miss....mostly miss. The perfect way to play from a server to oppo is "pull" from the oppo not from a DLNA server but directly with its own browser over SMB.
Now Oppo has restricted bdmv and iso playback from SMB. BDMV is broken down into TS thus disabling full BD menu handling and the Iso don't even show up in oppos browser.
The only way out is to mod the oppo. I modded mine with the offering you find when googling "BD-mod". Works perfectly.
Now of course if Jrivercould find a way to "override" DLNA headers(which I don't know if it's even feasible) owners of modded oppos would be in heaven 21. You could then use the brilliant library browsing (jremote) and "push" the bdmv folder or iso file as such to the oppo which should(??) be able to start playback. But I highly doubt this would work out.

The first problem is that with SMB, the .wtv files aren't supported at all.

The second problem with SMB is that there isn't a way to present the media in a nicely organized form like JRiver allows one to do by configuring the DLNA views, unless the media is perfectly organized on the drive AND isn't split across multiple drives.

Regarding playback of BDMV folders via SMB, put the BDMV folder inside an AVCHD folder and process the AVCHD folder with bdmv_modify.  So you would have a path similar to:

\\SERVERNAME\Movies\Star Wars Episode VII\AVCHD\BDMV

I think you'll like the result.  You navigate into the AVCHD folder and the Oppo takes it from there.

[eddyshere]

used that that also but prefer the iso.
Have the 203 on the way so I hope some progress there...but i highly doubt

[greynolds]

I just spent some more time experimenting with a different DLNA server that doesn't transcode or convert anything, called oShare.

I can confirm that the Oppo BDP-10x series players and the new UDP-203 can play m2t video files from Bluray rips to BDMV folders with Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio tracks and can even switch between audio tracks when multiple audio tracks are available.  That said, this isn't a practical solution, as is, because you have to navigate into the BDMV\STREAM folder and figure out which m2t file is the correct one to play as oShare doesn't have any knowledge of the playlists and just presents the files in their folder structure.

Similarly, .mkv files with Dolby Digital tracks play just fine.  This all happens with absolutely no conversion / transcoding.

That said, .wtv files still don't work because the Oppo doesn't support that container type, even though it does support the codecs that are in those files, so they would need to be transcoded to a supported container in order to work.

So this exercise demonstrates that DLNA itself and the Oppo players are capable of making this work.

What would be needed is support in JRiver to stream supported files without any transcoding or conversion of any kind, present ripped Blurays as a m2t file without the user needing to figure out which file to stream (essentially what it does now, but without converting the audio to 2 channel and without converting the video), and transcode unsupported containers (such as wtv) to a supported container without without any conversion of supported codecs.  So any codecs that are supported by the DLNA client should be sent inside a supported container and any codecs that aren't supported should be converted to one that is and sent inside a supported container.

So essentially what Andrew described, but with the ability to override the GetProtocolInfo results as it looks like what comes back from that may not be accurate based on the report he has for the BDP-103 that seems to indicate that Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio aren't supported.

Hopefully this can be worked into the list of priorities at some point as it would make the Oppo players (and potentially other DLNA clients) really useful JRiver clients given the ability that JRiver has to customize the DLNA views to nicely organize the user's media library.

[CountryBumkin]

Windows Media Center recordings in the .wtv file format that have been imported into my JRiver database.  The Oppo won't even list the .wtv files

2) I've ripped my entire Bluray collection to BDMV folder structures. 

How many wtv files do you have? Can't you convert them all to something else (like MKV)? Googling it, there are a bunch of way to do this -- http://www.videoconverterfactory.com/tips/wtv-converter.html

Why did you rip your BD to folder structure? It seems that MKV (ripping main movie only) is the easiest way to rip.

Of course it's your choice - just asking to learn.

[AndrewFG]

  So essentially what Andrew described ..

+

[jmone]

Why did you rip your BD to folder structure? It seems that MKV (ripping main movie only) is the easiest way to rip.

Of course it's your choice - just asking to learn.

For me I've ripped around BD's to file structures.  My simple logic is:
1) Disk Space is cheap so I want to keep all the content from the BD
2) One day MC will include a Blu Ray Navigation Filter that will make it easy to access Alt Endings, TV Eps, and Extra Content that these disks provide.  Till that day I use BD Particles to expose this content as individual listings in MC's library.

[greynolds]

How many wtv files do you have? Can't you convert them all to something else (like MKV)?

They're a moving target because the list is whatever Window Media Center has recorded.

Why did you rip your BD to folder structure? It seems that MKV (ripping main movie only) is the easiest way to rip.

In addition to what @jmone already said:

3) The Oppo can play the BD movies with full menus if I place the BDMV folder structure inside an AVCHD folder and use a program named "bdmv_modify" to tweak the content.

Ripping to MKV would obviously work, but I want to have the option to play content other than just the main movie.  Of course, none of this (converting the wtv files to something else or ripping Blurays to mkv) would address the current limitations with the DLNA server functionality.

[CountryBumkin]

They're a moving target because the list is whatever Window Media Center has recorded.

So you are still using Windows Media Center? What's wrong (for you) with the JRiver Television recording feature?

[greynolds]

So you are still using Windows Media Center? What's wrong (for you) with the JRiver Television recording feature?

I'd prefer to keep this thread on topic...  But at this point JRiver's television recording feature is actually pretty good, I'm just not at a point yet where I feel comfortable completely switching over and I still need to use WMC for anything flagged as Copy Once anyway (obviously there's no way to play those Copy Once recordings in JRiver, no matter what happens with the DLNA server functionality).

[eddyshere]

2) One day MC will include a Blu Ray Navigation Filter (...)

if only 


_____________

Interestingly the full BD menu "trick" (based on libbluray) is implemented in KODI but has now also been implemented on the Dune solo 4K. It displays full BD menues perfectly with 95% accuracy for me. The Popcorn hour A-500 doesn't have it. It seems to me that from a legal/licence stand point as long as the player doesn't have a physical disc drive some manufacturers are implementing the libbluray-trick and are in a safe grey zone area.

But back to the point

There are only two ways to get to full BD menu support (from a LAN source) with an oppo :
a.) bdmv (AVCHD trick) - pull - oppo acts as a SMB/CIFS/NFS client
b.) iso (oppo firmware jailbreak) - pull - oppo acts as a SMB/CIFS/NFS client

...diggin deeper...as long as you have BD on your server you're fine with option a.) but if you also have DVD folders you're screwed. If DVD are present as well b.) is the only way = iso

___________

Push (where oppo acts as renderer) will not work as even if you override DLNA headers : you simply can not push a folder ....only a file and even if you COULD push a folder the oppo would receive it in DLNA renderer mode, it's firmware would not make him switch automatically into SMB client mode and start playback with full BD navigation.

NB: There is a way (!) to control (additionnaly to their HD media app) the oppo over IP to play files directly. That's achieved by direct UDP packet sending (handshaking) and then by sending a http command over a simple web browser. But that has nothing to do in JRiver's forum.

BUT !!!! In theory one could use JRiver MCWS (haven't investigated yet) and build a jriver driver/add-on which would when you select a library file in jriver send an http command to the oppo which would make him play in SMB mode...you would then have full menu navigation like with the physical disk AND jremote's world class GUI .
 

[greynolds]

^ Certainly some interesting ideas / thoughts in your post, eddyshere.  Some of those ideas would definitely be fun to explore.  But I'd be perfectly happy with a DLNA solution knowing full well that I won't get BD menus from it as long as it doesn't alter the audio and video unless the codec in the container isn't supported by the Oppo (or other target player).  When watching video, my preference is actually for pull for this so I can do everything with my remote control on my TV rather than having to get the iPad out, even realizing how good JRemote is.

For music, I actually do prefer to use the JRemote option to select what to listen to as it gives me the option to have the TV off.