Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[1966 Triumph]

I've been a JRiver supporter since MC18, I use it almost exclusively and have supported, bought and paid for each new build since then ~ which we're now up to MC22.

I've also enjoyed Tidal streaming for over a year now and think their service is great and the quality of music they stream is unparalleled at this point as well IMO ... at least "if" there is anyone else streaming CD quality files on the web ~ then I don't know about them. 

Now that Tidal subscribers have access to 24/96 MQA Masters (for those who have the HIFI option on their Tidal accounts) I would like JRiver to reconsider their differences and give integration with Tidal another chance. 

I simply do not like the current method of using Tidal with JRiver and IMO it's a buggy/band-aid situation.  I have downloaded a trial of Roon just for this specific purpose of seeing how it integrates with Tidal and it integrates seamlessly.  I mean if Roon can work with Tidal why can't JRiver? 

If something can't be worked out in the next build or update I'm afraid that MC22 may be my last purchase of JRiver as I really like Tidal and want/need the integration.

Why not get something straightened out with the only company in hi-fi (at least to my knowledge) that are streaming 24/96 quality files?  What say you JRiver?

[JimH]

Tidal and most other music services lose money.  You could read a few of my posts here to learn more:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101545.0

This post is the latest on Tidal:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.msg743864.html#msg743864

Jay Z seems to be betting on an acquisition.  I'm betting otherwise.  JRiver can't bet on companies that lose money.

[1966 Triumph]

Tidal and most other music services lose money.  You could read a few of my posts here to learn more:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101545.0

This post is the latest on Tidal:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.msg743864.html#msg743864

Jay Z seems to be betting on an acquisition.  I'm betting otherwise.  JRiver can't bet on companies that lose money.

I guess You/JRiver lost that bet ... big time!

http://www.audiostream.com/content/sprint-acquires-33-percent-tidal#FZyTMYoer5zAvlbC.97

From the article:

NEW YORK and OVERLAND PARK, Kan. – Jan. 23, 2017 – Global music and entertainment platform TIDAL and Sprint (NYSE: S) announced today an unprecedented partnership that will soon give Sprint’s 45 million retail customers unlimited access to exclusive artist content not available anywhere else.
Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/sprint-acquires-33-percent-tidal#w3E2lbzY5ruMsYBd.99

And just in case you're thinking that sound quality may be brushed aside, there's this from the same press release:
The Sprint-TIDAL partnership comes on the heels of TIDAL’s recent announcement revealing the availability of “Master” quality recordings. A wide variety of content from labels and artists, including Warner Music Group’s world-renowned music catalogue, is now available in Master audio across all of TIDAL’s available markets worldwide.

According to Music Business Worldwide, that 33% piece cost Sprint "around $200M, valuing TIDAL at $600M." If you remember, Jay Z & Co. purchased Tidal for $56M just two short years ago.

Hmm, 144 million gain in profit for Jay Z & Co. doesn't sound like he lost any money to me.  Now that TIDAL's worth over 1/2 billion ~ what's your excuse for proper integration this time? ?

[JimH]

Jay Z paid $50 million, then lost around $50 million more.  Tidal lost $2 million a month last year.  He gave away a chunk of the company to other musicions.  I don't think he will pocket anything like $200 million.  And  I don't see how they win in the long term.

In the past, when a service was acquired by a big company, it often ended up closing within a year or two.

Nokia acquired Loudeye.

Yahoo acquired Musicmatch.

Ever heard of Pressplay?  Sony and Universal's service.

No large company has succeeded at making a music service work financially.  And that includes Apple.

No, we're not working on Tidal integration.

[stewart_pk]

No large company has succeeded at making a music service work financially.

Spotify?

[Hendrik]

Spotify?

Nope.
http://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-revenues-topped-2bn-last-year-as-losses-hit-194m/

$2bn revenue, $194m loss.

[imugli]

I guess You/JRiver lost that bet ... big time!

http://www.audiostream.com/content/sprint-acquires-33-percent-tidal#FZyTMYoer5zAvlbC.97

From the article:

NEW YORK and OVERLAND PARK, Kan. – Jan. 23, 2017 – Global music and entertainment platform TIDAL and Sprint (NYSE: S) announced today an unprecedented partnership that will soon give Sprint’s 45 million retail customers unlimited access to exclusive artist content not available anywhere else.
Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/sprint-acquires-33-percent-tidal#w3E2lbzY5ruMsYBd.99

And just in case you're thinking that sound quality may be brushed aside, there's this from the same press release:
The Sprint-TIDAL partnership comes on the heels of TIDAL’s recent announcement revealing the availability of “Master” quality recordings. A wide variety of content from labels and artists, including Warner Music Group’s world-renowned music catalogue, is now available in Master audio across all of TIDAL’s available markets worldwide.

According to Music Business Worldwide, that 33% piece cost Sprint "around $200M, valuing TIDAL at $600M." If you remember, Jay Z & Co. purchased Tidal for $56M just two short years ago.

Hmm, 144 million gain in profit for Jay Z & Co. doesn't sound like he lost any money to me.  Now that TIDAL's worth over 1/2 billion ~ what's your excuse for proper integration this time? ?

And as far as Jim / JR losing that bet - Sprint ACQUIRED 33% of Tidal. That's exactly what Jim said he was betting on.

[stewart_pk]

Nope.
http://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-revenues-topped-2bn-last-year-as-losses-hit-194m/

$2bn revenue, $194m loss.

Interesting, but why should that mean that JRiver doesn't directly support it? Perhaps if it did Spotify would get a few more subscribers.

[mcduman]

paid subscriber since 16. clean installed win 10 the other day and will not even install jriver if no plans for tidal

[mcduman]

amazon, too, lost money until  recently. so why did you include an amazon service?

[fitbrit]

amazon, too, lost money until  recently. so why did you include an amazon service?

IIRC, Amazon and JRiver have had some kind of business relationship since before "Streaming Music Service" was a thing.

[fitbrit]

paid subscriber since 16. clean installed win 10 the other day and will not even install jriver if no plans for tidal

Let me know if this hostage situation works out for you, and I will try it as well.

Roon integrates Tidal seamlessly, and is only $200 per year on top of your Tidal subscription.

[gdrichardson]

I don't see what all this fuss is about. I am trialing Tidal and I get good results playing through JRiver using WDM, high-res comes through fine. Roon is expensive, but Tidal + JRiver is plenty of integration for me. If Tidal goes out of business, c'est la vie.

[mcduman]

right now i am using tidal desktop application hifi/master exclusive mode for streaming. no definite plans for the future.

meanwhile, can jriver publish their profit and loss statements to show us whether they returned a healthy profit for 2016. if they did not, we can not purchase their services.

[Awesome Donkey]

Honestly the way I see it, you guys wanting Tidal integration in MC should likely give up on this idea, it'll likely never happen. Remember, JRiver did a first step in Tidal integration a couple years back, only for disagreements with Tidal over how it'd look in MC (which were unacceptable to JRiver) caused said Tidal integration to be aborted in the early stages. There's nothing that suggests that stance with Tidal has or will likely change.

Using MC's WDM driver + Tidal app is likely the closest you can do.

[mcduman]

Honestly the way I see it, you guys wanting Tidal integration in MC should likely give up on this idea, it'll likely never happen. Remember, JRiver did a first step in Tidal integration a couple years back, only for disagreements with Tidal over how it'd look in MC (which were unacceptable to JRiver) caused said Tidal integration to be aborted in the early stages. There's nothing that suggests that stance with Tidal has or will likely change.

Using MC's WDM driver + Tidal app is likely the closest you can do.

this, i can understand & respect. but not speculations about their longevity, esp after receiving fresh capital.
also wdm driver does not work with the new mqa catalog (aka masters) at 24/96

[JimH]

We're not planning to do MQA either.  It's a lossy format with a royalty.

[mcduman]

royalty: lets make a vote and may be enough users accept a price increase for the mqa feature.
lossy: mp3 is lossy too 

[JimH]

meanwhile, can jriver publish their profit and loss statements to show us whether they returned a healthy profit for 2016. if they did not, we can not purchase their services.

We did earn a profit in 2016.  And 2015.  And 2014 ...

The company started in October of 1981 (35 years ago) and has been profitable most years.  We've never used anyone else's money.  I guess I'm proud of that.

I've watched dozens of companies, raise a lot of money, make a lot of noise, and disappear.  A few survived and prospered.  So I'm skeptical of some companies, especially when they lose money and claim success.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, but MQA is touted as an audiophile "lossless" format, and it's anything but.

IMO cost doesn't matter, it's not worth supporting. MQA support, like Tidal integration, has been brought up multiple times on the board and the answer is always the same.

Jim, perhaps information about Tidal integration/MQA support can be added in it's own sticky topic, or at least in the FAQ topic? Maybe people will not ask as much (and beat the dead horse more) in the future.

[mcduman]

Yeah, but MQA is touted as an audiophile "lossless" format, and it's anything but.

IMO cost doesn't matter, it's not worth supporting. MQA support, like Tidal integration, has been brought up multiple times on the board and the answer is always the same.

Jim, perhaps information about Tidal integration/MQA support can be added in it's own sticky topic, or at least in the FAQ topic? Maybe people will not ask as much (and beat the dead horse more) in the future.

for mqa, the hardware side did not make sense at all. but the software decoding business is very new so it was a valid question to ask (and not beating a dead horse)

[dtc]

Yeah, but MQA is touted as an audiophile "lossless" format, and it's anything but.

Actually, it is not touted as a lossless format. Bob Steward et. al. freely admit it is not lossless. What they do claim is that it can  sound as good as a lossless 16/44 Redbook rip even when not decoded and better than a lossless 16/44 Redbook rip when decoded and  can sound as good as a lossless high rez file in a much smaller file. They also claim that it can actually sound better than a normal high rez file because of the deblurring and other techniques used in an end to end process. There are always many opinions to any issue of how music sounds, but there are a significant number of people who agree with that assessment and also many who do not.

No need to go into a whole technical discussion of MQA, I just wanted to clarify the lossless point.

[fitbrit]

meanwhile, can jriver publish their profit and loss statements to show us whether they returned a healthy profit for 2016. if they did not, we can not purchase their services.

I had flashbacks of the Presidential Debates there for a second.

[ths61]

We did earn a profit in 2016.  And 2015.  And 2014 ...

The company started in October of 1981 (35 years ago) and has been profitable most years.  We've never used anyone else's money.  I guess I'm proud of that. ...

As you should be !!!  Congrats and Kudos for 35 years in business with your own money.  Maybe you can give Elon Musk a few pointers about doing business with his own money (before he gets another $25 BILLION in taxpayer bailouts).   

[JimH]

Thanks.