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Author Topic: Sample Rate for Idiots  (Read 5485 times)

Theleb_Kaarna

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Sample Rate for Idiots
« on: January 14, 2017, 09:57:24 am »

Disclaimer: I'm old and I'm an idiot.

Tools> Options...> Audio> Settings>...DSP & output format... After studying the FAQ and Audio Setup Wiki: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup (scroll down to "Output Format"), it's unclear to me if I need to change any of the lines in the "Output" column from "No change" to a specific value to best compliment my DAC (see specs below). Or "Bitstreaming"?? Please help! Thanks in advance=)

My intention ultimately is to use dBpoweramp & JRiver for (high end) audio ripping, storage (FLAC) & playback only. No video, etc. I only ever listen with headphones.

My relevant specs:
PC: Windows 10/i7 4930k 6-Core @4.2GHz/4 internal SSDs/16GB RAM/No Soundcard
Listening: Woo Audio "Fireflies" Gen2 single-ended tube headphone amp w/ built-in "ESS Sabre" DAC (up to 24-bit/384 kHz Playback), connected w/ Pangea Audio USB A-to-B cable. Sennheiser HD650 headphones.
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Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies | Sennheiser HD 650 | iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 | DH Labs Silver Sonic | C3 Audio Audiophile

CountryBumkin

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots (I'm the Idiot, Please Help)
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 10:18:16 am »

Did you try to play your music? You may not need to change anything.

Are you using the Windows Audio Driver (WASAPI) or do you have a driver from the DAC manufacturer (ASIO)?
If WASAPI, you can go to Windows>Control Panel>Sound and then under the default driver see what sample rates are supported. Then adjust in MC so any unsupported rates are converted.
For BitStreaming versus no-bitstreaming: the basic idea is that if you Bitstream you send the audio "untouched" to your DAC which then decodes it to PCM for playback.
If you let MC program due the decoding (no Bitstreaming), then MC will decode to PCM and send to your DAC. Either way it is still bit-perfect. However, if you have MC do the decoding then you can also have it add volume leveling (via Audio File Analysis), EQ, Room Correction, etc., and all the DSP features.
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Theleb_Kaarna

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots (I'm the Idiot, Please Help)
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 11:23:36 am »

I am able to play music. Just wanting to be sure all my settings are optimal.

The whole "WASAPI" - ""ASIO" thingy was actually going to be my next question. When I purchased my Woo headphone amp/DAC, I downloaded a "XMOS USB Audio 2.0 driver" from their website (see attached picture). Is this a type of ASIO driver? It displays a "Current Sample Rate" of 44,100 Hz (and why different from my DAC's "384,000 Hz?).

You mention to "... adjust in MC so any unsupported rates are converted". My DAC's rate is up to 384kHz. So in the options, should I change any rate that's HIGHER than 384 kHz TO 384,000 Hz? So in other words change "705,600 Hz", "768,000 Hz" & "Greater than 768,000 Hz" from "No Change" to "384,000 Hz?
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Samsung 850 Pro 1TB (x2) | Western Digital "Black" 4TB | Corsair AX1200i [1200 Watt] | Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies | Sennheiser HD 650 | iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 | DH Labs Silver Sonic | C3 Audio Audiophile

kr4

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots (I'm the Idiot, Please Help)
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 01:58:46 pm »

The whole "WASAPI" - ""ASIO" thingy was actually going to be my next question. When I purchased my Woo headphone amp/DAC, I downloaded a "XMOS USB Audio 2.0 driver" from their website (see attached picture). Is this a type of ASIO driver? It displays a "Current Sample Rate" of 44,100 Hz (and why different from my DAC's "384,000 Hz?).
What were you playing when you saw this read-out on your DAC?  If it was a CD or a ripped CD, that is correct because it only shows what it is doing now, not what it can do.  Your DAC's 384K capability means that it will play at that rate IF you feed it a signal with that rate.

Quote
You mention to "... adjust in MC so any unsupported rates are converted". My DAC's rate is up to 384kHz. So in the options, should I change any rate that's HIGHER than 384 kHz TO 384,000 Hz? So in other words change "705,600 Hz", "768,000 Hz" & "Greater than 768,000 Hz" from "No Change" to "384,000 Hz?
Do you have any files with sample rates above 384k?  I doubt it.
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Kal Rubinson
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Listener

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots (I'm the Idiot, Please Help)
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 01:59:54 pm »

My commewnts in Bold type.

I am able to play music. Just wanting to be sure all my settings are optimal.

I Googled to find info on your DAC.  You should be fine with the default DSP settings.  Here are a few audio settings that you should change. 

You should select (your DAC name) followed by WASAPI in Tools/Options/Audio/Audio device.
Under device settings just below, check "Open device for exclusive access".
Under Player/Volume, select "Internal volume".


Start playing music and ask more questions as the need arises.
[/b]

The whole "WASAPI" - ""ASIO" thingy was actually going to be my next question. When I purchased my Woo headphone amp/DAC, I downloaded a "XMOS USB Audio 2.0 driver" from their website (see attached picture). Is this a type of ASIO driver?

No, it is not an ASIO driver. It is a Windows USB audio driver. It enables Windows to output audio data at a bit depth and sample rate greater than 24/96,000. 

It displays a "Current Sample Rate" of 44,100 Hz (and why different from my DAC's "384,000 Hz?).

As you quoted in your first post, your DAC supports "(up to 24-bit/384 kHz Playback)".  You were playing music with a sample rate of 44,100 Hz.  Just what you'd expect to see.

You mention to "... adjust in MC so any unsupported rates are converted". My DAC's rate is up to 384kHz. So in the options, should I change any rate that's HIGHER than 384 kHz TO 384,000 Hz? So in other words change "705,600 Hz", "768,000 Hz" & "Greater than 768,000 Hz" from "No Change" to "384,000 Hz?

Yes, in theory it is a good idea to change those settings.  However, it is mostly a theoretical problem.  You may not find any music with a sample rate higher than 384,000 for years.

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Theleb_Kaarna

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 04:01:50 pm »

Brilliant! Thanks guys for the most helpful responses!

@Kr4 : I guess, ya, probably because I was listening to a CD FLAC file previously.

@Listener :  Thanks for taking the time to research my DAC. Most appreciated! You instructed me to: "You should select (your DAC name) followed by WASAPI in Tools/Options/Audio/Audio device". In there I didn't see a specific option for "Woo... WASAPI". I did however see two options that were close though: "XMOS USB Audio [WASAPI]" -and- "WooAudio [Kernel Streaming]". I chose the first option (as "XMOS USB..." was Woo's driver I downloaded + having WASAPI in the description), and, I seem to recall reading that I don't want to be using "Kernel streaming" (?). Am I correct with my choice? Thanks again!
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G.Skill TridentZ RGB 32GB @3600MHz | MSI 1080ti Lightning Z | Plextor M8Pe(Y) 512GB | Samsung 960 Pro 1TB
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB (x2) | Western Digital "Black" 4TB | Corsair AX1200i [1200 Watt] | Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies | Sennheiser HD 650 | iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 | DH Labs Silver Sonic | C3 Audio Audiophile

Listener

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 10:42:50 pm »

You are on the right track.  WASAPI rather than kernel streaming.
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astromo

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 01:07:37 am »

Looks like you're sorted or almost.

I thought I'd just pop in with a side comment - you're not an idiot. My reasoning - you've picked a darn fine piece of playback and library management software for your audio. Not the mark of an idiot in my book.
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Theleb_Kaarna

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 11:32:28 am »

Thank you @astromo for the kind words, appreciate that. And thank you everyone! Also apologies if my original thread title: "Sample Rate for Idiots (I'm the Idiot, Please Help)" was offensive or broke the TOS. Not my intention. Just poking fun at myself.

So to kinda revisit an earlier question: For the "Audio Device" setting, I really have two considerations to choose from (no longer considering the Kernel option) -

"XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST 3066 [ASIO]" -or- "XMOS USB Audio [WASAPI]".

Not wanting to open a can of worms, but I guess it comes down to which option (ASIO vs. WASAPI) will perform better for my set-up and my desire for undisturbed quality sound. I'll continue to play around, but my ears really don't hear a difference at this point. Nevertheless, opinions?
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G.Skill TridentZ RGB 32GB @3600MHz | MSI 1080ti Lightning Z | Plextor M8Pe(Y) 512GB | Samsung 960 Pro 1TB
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB (x2) | Western Digital "Black" 4TB | Corsair AX1200i [1200 Watt] | Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies | Sennheiser HD 650 | iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 | DH Labs Silver Sonic | C3 Audio Audiophile

Listener

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Re: Sample Rate for Idiots
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2017, 01:32:31 pm »


So to kinda revisit an earlier question: For the "Audio Device" setting, I really have two considerations to choose from (no longer considering the Kernel option) -

"XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST 3066 [ASIO]" -or- "XMOS USB Audio [WASAPI]".

Not wanting to open a can of worms, but I guess it comes down to which option (ASIO vs. WASAPI) will perform better for my set-up and my desire for undisturbed quality sound. I'll continue to play around, but my ears really don't hear a difference at this point. Nevertheless, opinions?

I've used ASIO for 10+ years and I've used WASAPI for maybe half that time.  Both can deliver bitperfect audio to the DAC. Either interface can work smoothly with JRiver.  However, for a particular DAC and the drivers you use with it, one interface may be more troublefree.  Try the WASAPI interface for a while.  If you have any problems, ask a question in this foruym.  If that doesn't produce a good solution try the ASIO interface.

I've used the XMOS windows audio driver through the WASAPI interface and found that it worked just fine.  No problems.

You should be ready to start listening to music through your system.  Get on with it!
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