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[Sixtyten]

I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to stream DSD (dsf) files from JRiver MC to my Sony UHP-H1. In Tools > Options > Media Network I've defined the DLNA profile (Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers) for the Sony as Audiophile 24bit DAC. I've selected Output as Original and left the PCM as 24bit. In Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers > Advanced I've ticked Bitstream DSD over DoPE compliant renderer.
 
However, when I stream to the device, the on screen display shows LPCM rather than DSD and all I hear is a low hissing sound from my amp. If I disable Bitstream DSD from Advanced and change to Specified output format only when necessary I get sound okay, but not in DSD

Interestingly, when I access the same files directly from my NAS drive using Bubble UPNP or, when I browse to them directly from the Sony, completely avoiding JRiver, they play without issue. Stereo and multichannel files both work. So the Sony definitely supports streaming DSD via DLNA.
 
I've downloaded Whitebears renderer settings and I think I'm set-up okay but nevertheless something is going awry. Likely there is something I haven't ticked
 
I'm not getting any success in either MC 20.0.132 or in MC 22.0.52
 
Any suggestions?

[Sixtyten]

So I've attached the log from MC20. No amount of footering with the DLNA settings is making this work. It always streams DSD as LPCM.

[AndrewFG]

Did you already post the Whitebear DMRA renderer report somewhere? If not can you please do so?

[Sixtyten]

I've attached the details you asked for - and a screen print of the settings as well

Thanks

[AndrewFG]

The report says that it should indeed be able to play DSD. So the MC DLNA audio settings should be set to "original" and "disable DOP".

[Sixtyten]

Which weird - when I confirm DSD over DOP is unticked and set the output to original I get the attached error message. I must be missing something

[AndrewFG]

It's possible that your renderer does not like the ContentType header that MC is passing e.g. audio/x-dsf instead of audio/x-dsd. We probably need someone at JRiver to comment..

[JimH]

It's possible that your renderer does not like the ContentType header that MC is passing e.g. audio/x-dsf instead of audio/x-dsd. We probably need someone at JRiver to comment..

Andrew,
Thanks for helping.  Is that not a legal header?  Bob has been gone for a week but will be back today.

Jim

[Sixtyten]

So there might be an issue with MC? That's sort of a relief as I thought I was going mad. 

[AndrewFG]

Andrew,
Thanks for helping.  Is that not a legal header?  Bob has been gone for a week but will be back today.

Jim

Hi Jim, the header is fully legal, but I think that MC provides a different mime type value that perhaps the renderer won't accept. On video you have a setting for override mime type, but you don't have it on audio. However it is only a guess..

[Sixtyten]

Is this something that is likely to be addressed in a version of MC?

[bob]

You might want to test to see if the mimetype is the issue.
In the MediaCenter file
FileAssociations.xml
under the audio section there is an entry:
<Item Name="dsf">audio/x-dsf</Item>
You could change x-dsf to x-dsd and see if that makes a difference.

[Sixtyten]

And lo and behold that worked. I'm now streaming DSD stereo and multichannel.

Cheers. Really appreciate it. 

[AndrewFG]

Bob,

Yet another reason why you should support GetProtocolInfo natively in MC. It's crazy that customers always have to use my DMRA to call GetProtocolInfo so that I can then tell you or them what settings have to be changed in MC.

If you supported GetProtocolInfo natively, then you could add a DLNA media output format "Auto" in addition to the existing settings "Native", "Always Convert", etc.

[Sixtyten]

Although I can now stream DSD when I select output as original, the weirdness continues. SACD iso's now won't play at all when this is selected. I have to change it to Specified Format When Necessary. As soon as I do this DSF files are transcoded to LPCM 176.4 rather than the native format.

Something is still going awry.

[bob]

Although I can now stream DSD when I select output as original, the weirdness continues. SACD iso's now won't play at all when this is selected. I have to change it to Specified Format When Necessary. As soon as I do this DSF files are transcoded to LPCM 176.4 rather than the native format.

Something is still going awry.

The dsf files you couldn't play before and the sacd iso files you can't play now are using what filetypes??

[bob]

Bob,

Yet another reason why you should support GetProtocolInfo natively in MC. It's crazy that customers always have to use my DMRA to call GetProtocolInfo so that I can then tell you or them what settings have to be changed in MC.

If you supported GetProtocolInfo natively, then you could add a DLNA media output format "Auto" in addition to the existing settings "Native", "Always Convert", etc.

Yes I'm sure that would work for some renderers and some day it'll probably get implemented.

[Sixtyten]

The dsf files you couldn't play before and the sacd iso files you can't play now are using what filetypes??

Previously SACD.ISO played back as LPCM. DSF files played back as LPCM. I changed the setting to output as original. DSF plays as DSD. SACD.ISO don't play at all. I've had no success playing them when I change to output as necessary. I'd have assumed, that as SACD is DSD, MC would be able to read the DSD data from them and then play it back as DSD? If I output SACD.ISO via my Denon USB300 DSD DAC they play with no issue as DSD

[Sixtyten]

Sorry - to clarify. If I specify output format as necessary then both DSF and SACD.ISO file playback as LPCM. If I leave it as original DSF play okay as DSD, whereas SACD.ISO don't play at all. 

[AndrewFG]

There is nothing in your renderers DMRA report that gives any indication of it being able to play SACD natively..

[Sixtyten]

Apart from it being an SACD player of course.

[bob]

Apart from it being an SACD player of course.

Which makes it's capable of playing an SACD however that doesn't make it capable of playing an ISO structure over a DLNA connection.

Most DLNA devices have different capabilities that depend on the media used. Most all can play more formats internally (usb drive, whatever) than they can over a network connection.

[Sixtyten]

If that's the case, why when I change the specified output to only when required, are DSF files played back as hiss? The player supports DSD via DLNA. I have to have the thing set to specified output format negating the workaround which was suggested previously.

 

[bob]

If that's the case, why when I change the specified output to only when required, are DSF files played back as hiss? The player supports DSD via DLNA. I have to have the thing set to specified output format negating the workaround which was suggested previously.

"Specified output only when required" means when the original file is not required to be supported by the spec (PCM L16) or mp3 (which everything plays).

We don't parse the SinkProtocolInfo to see what the device claims it's supports. We don't do this because we have found it to be unreliable. There are two issues.
1) It's frequently just wrong.
2) There are limitations to what it can tell you. For example, a device can tell you it plays flac files but not what sample rates and bit depths it supports.

Now, Andrew has been a big proponent of gleaning what information is available and using that to determine what is likely to be supported. That is what his analyzer does.
If we added a way of doing that it would likely help with some configurations. I'm not sure there is enough information available from your device to help with your configuration. At any rate we don't currently store and use individual device capabilities.

[Sixtyten]

Sorry, but I still don't understand . I can stream DSD from my NAS drive to the Sony using their Songpal app. I can then stream other files from said NAS to the device in their native format (SACD.ISO aside) so why can't I do this on MC? As soon as MC intervenes, DSD gets transcoded to LPCM despite it being set to Output when necessary. I would expect the transcode only to happen with SACD.ISO files, not DSD.

The Sony doesn't need DSD transcoded, but MC does it regardless. Or am I missing something? If MC can't do this then just say so, and I'll try to work out how I address this. If MC will do it or it will be "fixed" then I'll upgrade to MC22 

[jkolker]

I have discovered that "only when necessary" doesn't mean what one might think.  It will convert just about everything to your setting because MC doesn't know the capabilities of the player.  Thus unless it's a few file types, everything gets converted.  My receivers play .flac files but were being converted to .mp3 files (per my only when necessary setting) every time.  Changed to original, they were sent (and played) the .flac files.

I think it would be nice if we could define, by device, which file types, etc could be sent. 

Just thought I would mention that... hope you get the situation fixed.  I do have the Sony UHP-H1 (nice unit) but have not tried streaming DSD files to it.

[bob]

Sorry, but I still don't understand . I can stream DSD from my NAS drive to the Sony using their Songpal app. I can then stream other files from said NAS to the device in their native format (SACD.ISO aside) so why can't I do this on MC? As soon as MC intervenes, DSD gets transcoded to LPCM despite it being set to Output when necessary. I would expect the transcode only to happen with SACD.ISO files, not DSD.

The Sony doesn't need DSD transcoded, but MC does it regardless. Or am I missing something? If MC can't do this then just say so, and I'll try to work out how I address this. If MC will do it or it will be "fixed" then I'll upgrade to MC22

jkolker explained how the "convert when necessary" works. I did the same above with somewhat different wording.

When you sent the audio output to "original format" and make that change in FileAssociations.xml the DSD content played.
As far as I can tell from your posts, the SACD .iso's never played.
Correct?

[Sixtyten]

I changed from original output to specified when necessary in the expectation that SACD.ISO would be transcoded to LPCM and DSF files would be output as DSD because the player supports DSD. But MC isn't doing this. It's transcoding DSF to LPCM, despite the fact that the player plays DSF files. So at the moment setting to original lets DSF (and the more common files) be played natively. SACD.ISO doesn't play, unless I select output as necessary. At which point DSF files are transcoded as LPCM.

[bob]

I changed from original output to specified when necessary in the expectation that SACD.ISO would be transcoded to LPCM and DSF files would be output as DSD because the player supports DSD. But MC isn't doing this. It's transcoding DSF to LPCM, despite the fact that the player plays DSF files. So at the moment setting to original lets DSF (and the more common files) be played natively. SACD.ISO doesn't play, unless I select output as necessary. At which point DSF files are transcoded as LPCM.

So the SACD iso files played as PCM "when necessary" was set.

There isn't a way to do what you want at this time.
The only workaround is to create a second server that doesn't convert and use that when sending DSD files.

[Sixtyten]

Thanks - I'd sort of figured that was the option.