Topic: why are albums of same artist placed in different folders??? (Read 5014 times)

tobilotz · « **on:** March 16, 2017, 02:20:07 pm »

Hi again,

still trying to configure JRiver 22. After you guys could help me solving my problem with silence on the beginning of a first track, I now have a new problem.

When I tested JRiver for the first time, I added an external hd as library, a pretty huge one with 1.5TB of music. I noticed then that for one artist JRiver creates different artist folders like: "Van Morrison" and "Morrison, Van" and "Van Morrison and Chieftains". Just this example (there were many many more).

Then I thought... oh, ok, maybe the ID tags are like this and yes, they were. So I did manually change the ID tags so all that is set to "Van Morrison" as artist. I deleted the library and then plugged the external hd again. Now as all songs are indexed, I STILL get the different folders: "Van Morrison" and "Morrison, Van" and "Van Morrison and Chieftains". WHY?

Why are they not all stored in ONE folder, "Van Morrison"?

Can you please help?

Thanks again and best,
Tobias

aviateur · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2017, 02:36:01 pm »

Tobias, Hi:

You will have to physically consolidate the files into one folder if that is what you want. Tagging is metadata that logically allows for different categorization within MC or another music manager. I suspect if you look at the files within Windows Explorer, the Artist tag you changed will state 'Van Morrison' even though you have several different folders for that artist as you stated. I have this issue with albums that have multiple discs (i.e. disc 1, disc 2, etc.). I rip outside of MC with a product called dBpoweramp. I live with the multiple locations because I never see it or have to deal with it based on tagging and the views I've established within MC. Tell me what you are trying to accomplish. I'm glad to help with the details.

Cheers,
Lawrence

tobilotz · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2017, 02:49:58 pm »

Hi Lawrence,

thanks for the quick reply. I´m afraid I don´t know what you mean as English is not my native language.

I ripped all my CDs with dbpoweramp too. And so, I have a folder called music. In this folder each artist has his/her own separte folder. So, I have there one folder called "Morrison, Van". In this folder all albums have their own subfolders: Avalon Sunset, Common One, Moondace, Moondance Expanded CD1, Moondance Expanded CD1 and so on... is this what you mean?

I was not sure how to include my whole external HD, so I choose the option "add only one folder". Well this folder was my "music" folder, with the many subfolders artists -> albums. Not correct?

Oh, and one more thing: some files were not imported at all (normal FLAC files) and some have missing tracks... ?

Thanks and best,
Tobias

Spike1000 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:07:41 pm »

I think tobilotz is referring to 'folders' within MC's database/library/views displaying the artists from the tags.

tobilotz you don't need to delete the library but you do need to fix the tags that are in the files ripped by dbpoweramp. The different sources used to populate the metadata from dbpoweramp have used different naming conventions eg "Van Morrison" and "Morrison, Van" MC is just displaying what it finds in the tags written by dbpoweramp.

You can use the views in MC and the tag editor to find the tags that don't match the convention you wish to use, you can then correct them and the views will then be fixed automatically. Do a few first to get the hang of it.

Note1: Ensure that tags edited in MC are written back to the music files!!!
Note2: If you use a client to edit the tags you must have authentication enabled to update the main MC database.

Spike

aviateur · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:19:13 pm »

Tobias:

My HD / folder arrangement is similar to yours. My music resides on my D: drive, which is a WD RED 4TB HD. I have two folders for music, 'flac' and 'non-flac'. The folder hierarchy within both is Artist > Album. I have included images to help. One image shows an album by Kraftwerk. Notice the tag information in Windows Explorer view of the album and then the dBpoweramp Edit-ID Tag display. These are some of the tagged fields that end up in MC. If this was multi-disc album, my album starts out with the suffix, Disc1 and then Disc 2 for the second disc. I choose these separate titles for the individual discs when I rip with dBpoweramp. Once they are imported into MC, I select all of the tracks for the multi-disc album, which is physically located in two folders, and change the album title to one common name by dropping the prefixes of ', Disc 1' and ',Disc 2'. Again, my views do not contain the filename, so I am not concerned with the two physical folders for this one album. I have included images of Brian Eno's called 'The Shutov Assembly' as an example. It is in two parts, left and right. Notice in the right portion, the different file folder for Disc 2 of the same album. As I stated before, I changed the Album value to be the same for all tracks for disc 1 and disc 2.

Cheers,
Lawrence

aviateur · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:28:21 pm »

Quote

So I did manually change the ID tags so all that is set to "Van Morrison" as artist. I deleted the library and then plugged the external hd again. Now as all songs are indexed, I STILL get the different folders: "Van Morrison" and "Morrison, Van" and "Van Morrison and Chieftains".

Spike, Hi:

I could be wrong but I think he already made the tag changes inside MC and then was wondering why that operation did not consolidate all the Van Morrison tracks into one folder on his HD. I was attempting to give him some insight into his HD layout.

Cheers,
Lawrence

tobilotz · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:28:40 pm »

Spike: I DID change the tags with dbpoweramp, then cleared library in MC and added again, but it still doesn´t work. Can it be that MC somehow has "saved" the previous library and I must click something to "check" new?

Lawrence: I have the same structure as yours, even with albums with more disc than one... but it still does not work for me.

Can someone explain why some tracks from Soundtracks are simply missing too?

Best,
Tobias

aviateur · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:29:57 pm »

Tobias:

Can you post some images from MC and from Windows Explorer?

Cheers,
Lawrence

aviateur · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:36:00 pm »

... also what is the Artist value for your Van Morrison tracks inside MC?

aviateur · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:38:18 pm »

Quote

Spike: I DID change the tags with dbpoweramp,

... and make the tag changes inside of MC.

tobilotz · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2017, 03:42:01 pm »

Lawrence,

I will try :-).

The problem is that my HPTC is now updating. I wanted to restart because my iPad app lost conection to the HTPC.
Here´s a screenshot from Windows Explorer on my main PC (same as on HTPC).

How can I see the value of the tracks inside MC? Why did it not accept the new ones? I think there´s kind of a memory that has to cleaned in MC. Tagging them all again makes me mad... it´s not just Van Morrison, but many many more.

Best,
Tobias

tobilotz · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2017, 04:06:31 pm »

...still updating... it´s late here already... I will try cleaning library again and then start new... give feedback tomorrow, thanks for all your help!!!

aviateur · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2017, 04:47:07 pm »

Tobias:
Here is a hypothetical example to highlight different folders and tagging within MC.
To display/change tags within MC, do the following:

1. Select your Artist view (Artist 1).
2. Select a particular artist. In my case, I selected Elvis Costello (Artist 2).
3. Select a particular album or albums. In my case, I selected two albums, "My Aim Is True' and 'Armed Forces', to simulate your situation of two folders (Artist 3).
4. Select all the tracks of the selected albums (Artist 4).
5. Select the tagging action from the Edit menu: Edit > Tag (Artist 5).

The tags for the selected tracks will appear to the left in a vertical arrangement. Note, because two albums were selected, the value in Album is [Varies] but notice that the Artist for both albums is 'Elvis Costello'. If I select one album, either one track or all the album tracks, the Album value will reflect the name of the album, 'My Aim Is True' (Artist 6). Let me know if this helping or hindering.

By the way, tagging all the tracks that you want to have one particular value, such as 'Van Morrison' in the Artist field is quite easy. Select all the pertinent tracks of the albums in question. Then, via the Tag function, Edit > Tag or keystroke combination Alt-Enter, change the Artist field value, and press Enter. The Artist values for all the selected tracks will be changed in the MC library. The metadata change will also occur in the physical file. If you change your perspective and think about MC as your primary database, that may help with your understanding.

Cheers,
Lawrence

aviateur · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2017, 04:48:25 pm »

... the remaining images for the previous post are attached.

Cheers,
Lawrence

tobilotz · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2017, 05:43:39 pm »

Lawrence,

thanks so much for your efforts, but when I do this, all albums are tagged the same... with "Van Morrison", as I changed them. Still they are shown in different artist folders as described below. I already reinstalled MC, but this has no effect.

I really think,something in MC recognizes the files. When I first added files to the library lt took very long, now much faster.

I what I need is clearing the cache somehow, but can't find this...

Best,
Tobias

aviateur · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2017, 07:50:47 pm »

Quote

I really think,something in MC recognizes the files. When I first added files to the library lt took very long, now much faster.

Tobias:

I am in the MST (UTC -7) time zone so I completely understand the time zone difference. I'll catch up with you tomorrow. But since it is late afternoon here, I have a couple of thoughts to share. Keep in mind that when you import into MC, you are only importing metadata, not the physical files. They remain untouched in whatever folder you referenced for importing purposes. The File Name tag is just a pointer to where the actual files exist.

Quote

Still they are shown in different artist folders as described below.

This part was not visible, the 'described below' part but do you mean artist folders on your HD? If so, that is normal behavior based on my comment above about the File Name tag. Again, they are just pointers to your files in your Music folder.

Inside MC, when you select an Artist view, do you only see one thumbnail for 'Van Morrison?

Cheers,
Lawrence

tobilotz · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2017, 01:29:12 am »

Good morning Lawrence,

no... I see different thumbnail "folders", this is exactly my problem ;-)

here´s an example for Ryan Adams. All his albums are tagged with album artist=Ryan Adams, but in MC I have this, four different thumbnails, where I want only one:

tobilotz · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2017, 01:36:12 am »

four different thumbnails, but all are tagged with "Ryan Adams" as artist:

aviateur · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2017, 01:51:37 am »

Tobias:

Can you show me two separate images of two Ryan Adams Album thumbnails. And before you create the images, do this: right-click on the first line of the Tag window (it is right under the word Tag) and select 'Show All Tags'. I want to compare each track of each Album thumbnail for Artist, Album Artist, and Album Artist(auto). I'll do my best to map what I see to English.

Cheers,
Lawrence

Spike1000 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2017, 01:53:45 am »

Quote from: tobilotz on March 17, 2017, 01:29:12 am

All his albums are tagged with album artist=Ryan Adams, but in MC I have this, four different thumbnails. . .

D'oh! That view is based on the 'Artist' tag NOT the 'Album Artist' the tag you've changed will not change that view (as you've seen). Edit the Artist Tag and things will start to fix themselves.

Note The view is based on the Artist Tag as that tag is a list value (it can store multiple artists that are all treated as individual a items).

The Artist field supports lists: "Chet Atkins; Mark Knopfler" is two list items
Album Artist is singular: "Chet Atkins; Mark Knopfler" is a single item.

Spike

aviateur · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2017, 02:01:42 am »

Spike, good catch.

Tobias, here is what Spike is talking about. When you right-click on the Artist View, select Customize View. Does the 'Show Categories In This Order:' look like the image attached? Notice Album Artist(auto) is at the top.

tobilotz · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2017, 02:15:51 am »

Yes, it shows like this... but I don´t see any options like "artist" and "album artist" there...

So I understand that I must change the "Album artist" tag too? To be honest I never seen this option because I when I open the tag editor, it does not show, only when I open the frame up...

tobilotz · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2017, 02:18:34 am »

OK, yes, works... think we solved this!!! Thank you guys!!!

Spike1000 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2017, 02:25:55 am »

Result! Got there in the end.

I think Lawrence was getting a bit too advanced a bit too soon with the editing of the views. You're new to MC and the default views are a good start. Once your tags are fixed and you get a feeling for how everything works then you can move into the more advanced stuff and customise more of MC (eg views); understanding the basics makes the more advanced stuff less daunting.

Enjoy!

Spike

tobilotz · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2017, 02:30:06 am »

Thanks again!!!!

I´m not thrilled to tag them all again, but hey... this is the price we pay for understanding better!

Really love your efforts to help me!

aviateur · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2017, 08:50:53 am »

Good Morning Lads!

Spike, thanks for the help.
Tobias, my apologies if it felt like I was taking you into the 'high weeds' (things were unclear).

Cheers,
Lawrence

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Author Topic: why are albums of same artist placed in different folders??? (Read 5014 times)