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[kmmcd]

 I am considering purchasing MC. Currently, two of us use our respective W10 PC's on our local LAN, each using Windows Media Player, to stream separate audio from a local NAS, often at the same time. This has worked well for us.

Now, we want to begin using high definition files, hence our interest in MC.

Do we really need to set up a server? Or, can we each use MC like we have been using WMP?

[RoderickGI]

1. There was a QNAP version of MC, but there have been issues with updates, and I'm not sure if it is going forward. Search for QNAP on the forum.

2. You could just install MC on each PC, then access the media off the NAS either via drive mappings, network address, or DLNA using the DLNA server on the NAS, and each have your own version of the library... But then you have to maintain two libraries, and there would no doubt be tagging conflicts and other issues with two libraries maintaining tags on each of the files, potentially. You could work around that by only ever doing maintenance from one PC.

3. You could just set up one of the PCs as the Server, and the other as a Client... But then the Server needs to be on the network (even if asleep) and waiting to serve media to the Client.

4. You could just use MC as a player only, as you have with Windows Media Player, but then you lose the benefits of the library, with tagging, audio analysis, streaming conversions, views, etc.


But the best way to use MC, I think, is to have a MC Server and use your existing PCs as Clients. Unless, of course, one of your existing PCs can be the MC Server as per 3. above, which makes maintenance a whole lot easier as some maintenance has to be done on the MC Server.

[JimH]

The NUC version of the JRiver Id plus a USB 3.0 drive can act as a NAS.

Drive Prices at Amazon:
2TB for $72
4TB for $110

Id prices for the NUC version start at $265.

[Listener]

I am considering purchasing MC. Currently, two of us use our respective W10 PC's on our local LAN, each using Windows Media Player, to stream separate audio from a local NAS, often at the same time. This has worked well for us.

Now, we want to begin using high definition files, hence our interest in MC.

Do we really need to set up a server? Or, can we each use MC like we have been using WMP?

No, you probably do not need to set up a server with MC.  I suggest that you start with the simplest approach which is like your use of WMP.

- Download MC for Windows.  You have a 30 day trial.  Install it on both PCs.

- On each PC, set MC to auto-import files from the locations where your music files are stored.  (On the main menu, Tools/Import/Configure Auto-import.)

- On each PC, select the views you will use to browse and select music to play. MC includes some standard views under the word Audio on the left aide of the MC window and you can define your own custom views.)

- On each PC, choose your audio output device (On the main menu, Player/Playback options/Audio device).

You are already using WMP on each PC to play music stored on a NAS.  You can do the same thing using MC rather than WMP.

Once you are up to speed using MC as I described, you can explore fancier ways to use it.  Come back with further questions at that point.

[kmmcd]

Can MC reuse my existing ripped CD library that we have been using with WMP?

Will JRiver modify this library in any way so that it can no longer be used with WMP (in the unlikely case that we did not continue with MC beyond the evaluation period)?

Will MC corrupt the metadata used by WMP?

[JimH]

Yes.
No.
No.

No problems with WMP.

[shAf]

The NUC version of the JRiver Id plus a USB 3.0 drive can act as a NAS.

Drive Prices at Amazon:
2TB for $72
4TB for $110

Id prices for the NUC version start at $265.

I don't have a problem with the NUC, but it's no substitute for the reliability, redundancy and backup safety that a quality NAS offers. I might suggest a NUC hard-connected to a NAS as a better option (over external drives that WILL eventually fail catastrophically), ... with tablets, smart phones, and other local computers acting as clients.

[kmmcd]

I have installed MC on two networked PC's, with the database on our NAS. So far, so good. I have some questions:

1) How can I remove an existing album from our NAS database using MC? (Online research has indicated that when an album is deleted via MC, it is removed from the local library, but not actually deleted from the disc to avoid corruption of libraries which other users may be using.)

2) If I rip a CD to .flac to the NAS database, will the existing .wav rip be overwritten? Will libraries be corrupted in any way? Or will two copies of this album exist on the NAS drive?

3) If ripping to flac per #2 above, and there are two copies of the album on the NAS (.flac and .wav), how can I differentiate between the two when selecting it to play in MC?

thanks

[RoderickGI]

When you say you have "the database on our NAS", do you just mean that you have the media files on the NAS, or have you placed the MC Library files themselves on the NAS? If you have placed the Library files on the NAS, and are accessing those files from two networked PCs at the same time, you could have issues with two copies of MC trying to write to the same Library files at the same time. That could lead to corruption. That is not how MC is supposed to be set up.

Using a NAS, one PC should be the MC Server, and the second PC should run as a MC Client of the first PC. The MC Server PC will need to be on, or in standby and ready to wake, for any requests from the second, Client PC.

1) If you are using MC in a Client/Server configuration, as intended, only the Server can delete media files from the NAS. The Client can't. So you will need to do deletions from the first PC as described above. When you select a media record in MC and press the Delete key, you should get the option to just Remove from Library, or Remove from Library and recycle the file, or delete it. If you don't get the options, press Shift-Delete, and they will appear.

From memory once you have used Shift-Delete once, then next time you use Delete the options will show again, or it uses you last action as the default action. You can work that out.

2) The existing WAV file will not be deleted or overwritten. There will be no corruption. You will have two versions of the track in you Library and on disk.

3) Just hover your mouse over record in MC and a popup will show some information about it, including the full path and file name, with extension. This is the easiest way to identify which record and file to delete (Shift-Delete) if that is what you are trying to work out. Alternately, look in the Tag Window at the "File Type" Tag, which will show WAV or FLAC.

[Listener]

I have installed MC on two networked PC's, with the database on our NAS. So far, so good. I have some questions:

1) How can I remove an existing album from our NAS database using MC? (Online research has indicated that when an album is deleted via MC, it is removed from the local library, but not actually deleted from the disc to avoid corruption of libraries which other users may be using.)

2) If I rip a CD to .flac to the NAS database, will the existing .wav rip be overwritten? Will libraries be corrupted in any way? Or will two copies of this album exist on the NAS drive?

3) If ripping to flac per #2 above, and there are two copies of the album on the NAS (.flac and .wav), how can I differentiate between the two when selecting it to play in MC?

1) If you press the delete key (or the Edit/Delete command) when you are looking at a view such as "Audio" or "Artist/Album", you will see a window pop up offering choices to delete the library entry only, delete the entry and send the music file to the Trash Can, or delete the library entry and delete the music file permanently.

If you are viewing the recently imported playlist, I think that pressing the delete key just deletes the file from the list.  No popup window with choices. I don't have experience with deleting a file in the recently ripped playlist but it might work in the same way.

You will be much better able to use MC if you get comfortable doing some simple experiments.  Pick a file for experiments with how file deletion works.  Copy that file to a location separate from the folders where your music files are stored.  Then do the experiments.  Afterward, if the file you used has been deleted, you can restore it from the location where you copied it.

2) No, the .wav will not be overwritten.  The libraries will not be corrupted.  On the PC where you ripped the CD to .flac files, both the .wav and .flac versions will be present.


3) MC allows you to customize existing views or make new custom views. You could  add a "File Type" category to an existing view.

If you already have .wav versions on the NAS, why do you want to re-rip those CDs?  Ripping CDs takes time and effort. There may be other quicker and simpler ways to get the results that you want.

You will get better advice here if you explain more about the context for your questions.  For example, the way that MC responds to the Delete key being pressed depends on the view or playlist that you were looking at.   

[kmmcd]

Maybe the answer to my current question below will help me to understand the concept of and need for a server.

Currently, all of our audio files reside on a NAS; this database was created using WMP. The database can be accessed by two instances of MC on separate PC's (which are not configured as servers) successfully.

The album in question is "Smoker's Delight" by "Nightmares on Wax." When this album is selected, the title is displayed as "Smoker's Delight by Various Artists." For all of the tracks, "Nightmares on Wax" is listed as the artist, except one track appends "Quincy Jones" to the artist name, resulting in a listed artist name of "Nightmares on Wax; Quincy Jones", and another track appends "The Dells" to the artist, resulting in "Nightmares on Wax; The Dells."

On PC #1, we manually corrected the artist name in the respective track listing data. This correction is persistent when MC is successively exited and invoked. On PC #2, the correction does not appear, so Quincy Jones and The Dells appear as artists along with two respective tracks in addition to "Nightmares on Wax," resulting in the overall album appearing in an "various artists" category.

How can the correction made to this album artist listing on PC #1 be migrated to PC #2?

[RoderickGI]

How can the correction made to this album artist listing on PC #1 be migrated to PC #2?

An interesting question, and as I have never been a serious WMP user, other than as a simple player, I can only make some educated guesses. These follow.

MC can't read the WMP Database. MC has its own database, and it is stored on the local PC. Even if you use a MC Server and Client, the Client has a synchronised copy of the server database on the local hard drive. It is possible to configure MC other ways, such as putting the MC Library (Database) on a mapped network drive or NAS, but then if multiple Clients are using the one set of Library files at the same time, you could will break the Library, due to file contention.

Therefore, your NAS is probably sharing the media files that it has via its internal DLNA Server. It could be using the WMP Database as the source of the DLNA information (I don't know), but it would still be sharing them to MC via DLNA. That means that each of your two PCs have a local copy of a MC Library, and they are using that to know what media files are available, and to store all tag changes made on either PC. So you have two separate, and not linked MC Libraries. (The MC Server functionality is the link between multiple copies of a MC Library.)

I'm pretty sure that tag changes made to files that are served from a DLNA server are not propagated back to the media files themselves (not positive), and probably not to the WMP Database if the NAS is using that. If tag changes made in MC were written back to the media files via DLNA, or if you are not using DLNA or the WMP Database in any way with MC (quite possible) but are in fact viewing the media files directly on the NAS from MC via either a mapped network drive to the NAS, or via a network address, and then each instance of MC on each PC could write tags back to the media files, and those would then be picked up by the second PC when it detects the changes to tags in the media file. That would be essentially doing some of what the Client/Server setup does, but with possible file contention issues, if both PCs try to write tags to the same file at the same time. You would need to at least have the following two settings;
1. Options > File Location > Cover Art > Also store image in the file's tag (This wouldn't work for videos, which can't store Cover Art in tags, or for any file type that can't store the tag data.
2. Options > General > Import & Tagging > Update tags when file info changes.

Anyway, I think what you have set up now is my Option 2 in my original reply above.


Basically, WMP and its Database are directly equivalent to MC and the MC Library. They are competitive products. WMP doesn't read the MC Library, and MC doesn't read the WMP Database (I'm pretty sure.)

Also, usually the WMP Database is stored locally on a PC, and not on a NAS, I think. Maybe some NAS' can store the WMP Database and share it to multiple WMP instances on multiple PCs. That level of integration with WMP may be supplied by some NAS manufacturers.

Tell me, with your current WMP setup, do tag changes from PC1 propagate to PC2?


NB: Again, I disclaim any knowledge of WMP and its Database, or detailed knowledge of DLNA, so these are just my thoughts. 


PS: BTW, the correct answer to your question;

How can the correction made to this album artist listing on PC #1 be migrated to PC #2?

Is to use MC in a Client/Server configuration, which is why you need a MC Server. (As distinct from a separate hardware server of course. It could just be one of your two PCs, as per my Option 3 above. The MC Server is a software server, and may or may not require a separate hardware server. My MC Server is my HTPC.)

[Listener]

Maybe the answer to my current question below will help me to understand the concept of and need for a server.

Currently, all of our audio files reside on a NAS; this database was created using WMP. The database can be accessed by two instances of MC on separate PC's (which are not configured as servers) successfully.

The album in question is "Smoker's Delight" by "Nightmares on Wax." When this album is selected, the title is displayed as "Smoker's Delight by Various Artists." For all of the tracks, "Nightmares on Wax" is listed as the artist, except one track appends "Quincy Jones" to the artist name, resulting in a listed artist name of "Nightmares on Wax; Quincy Jones", and another track appends "The Dells" to the artist, resulting in "Nightmares on Wax; The Dells."

On PC #1, we manually corrected the artist name in the respective track listing data. This correction is persistent when MC is successively exited and invoked. On PC #2, the correction does not appear, so Quincy Jones and The Dells appear as artists along with two respective tracks in addition to "Nightmares on Wax," resulting in the overall album appearing in an "various artists" category.

How can the correction made to this album artist listing on PC #1 be migrated to PC #2?

RoderickGI is making lots of assumptions and giving you rather complicated advice based on those assumptions.  He is explaining a lot of things that you may not need to know at present and may not even be relevant if his assumptions are not correct. He is enlightening you in a general way. I'm focused on giving you a simple way to start using MC.

You have not given us much information on your NAS (what make and model and what features you used) or about how you set up WMP.  That may not be needed.  We do need to know what you did in setting up MC.

You appear to have imported your music files into MC on PC # 1 and PC # 2.  There are several ways you might have imported the files.

1.  Automatic whole PC scan. When you first install MC on a PC, MC doesn't have any files in its library.  A small area in the lower left corner of the MC window shows a count down clock.  If you don't cancel the scan before it reaches zero, MC starts scanning your entire local PC hard drive.  I do not know whether it also scans an accessible folders on a NAS.  I avoid this automatic scan so I don't have any experience with this method.  When I install MC on a new PC or create a new library, I always cancel the automatic scan.

2. Manual import.  You could have used the "Tools/Import/Import a single folder" command to import a single folder (and all the subfolders contained in the base folder.)  If you have files under more than one base, folder, you could have used this command for each base folder.  This is the way I have imported media files into MC for more than 11 years.

3. Auto-import.  You could have used the "Tools/Import/Auto-import" command to tell MC to watch one or more base folders for new files or changes to files. 

If you used one of these methods, you should be able to get MC on PC # 2 to recognize changes made on PC # 1 quite simply. Use the  "Tools/Import/Auto-import" command. Add each base folder containing media files you want in the MC library in the list in the upper part of the dialog window shown below. In the lower part, be sure that the "Update for external changes" option is checked.


Do that on PC # 1 and PC # 2.  Changes you make on one PC should be reflected on the other PC.  Keep in mind that the auto-import function operates in the background and may take some time to find changes.  On a modern PC with an SSD and a small set of media files, it takes seconds but with a large set of media files on a NAS, it might take minutes.



It is possible that you did something more complicated.  If the NAS itself has a DLNA server function and it had imported the music files into its own database, you could have set up MC to use the DLNA server on the NAS rather than imported files into the local MC library.

Another possibility is that you imported your media files into MC on one PC and then set MC to be a server on that PC.  Then on the other PC, you set MC to use the MC library on the first PC.

I doubt that you used either of these methods but until you provide details about how you set MC up, I don't really  know.

[RoderickGI]

RoderickGI is making lots of assumptions and giving you rather complicated advice based on those assumptions.  He is explaining a lot of things that you may not need to know at present and may not even be relevant if his assumptions are not correct. He is enlightening you in a general way. I'm focused on giving you a simple way to start using MC.

  Cool. When not a lot of information is provided, and some of it is mis-information, I make assumptions. Plus I do like to expand people's knowledge of MC, and make them think about what they are doing. All good.

I could have just asked, "How did you set up MC?", but where is the fun in that?

[kmmcd]

To clarify, and to answer some questions above:

1) "Database on our NAS" means that the media files reside on the NAS. They were ripped a long ago (years) to .wav using WMP.

2) I don't know where the MC Library files reside, much less what the content of an MC Library is. What is the content of a MC Library file, and where does it reside? Is an MC library a full image of the ripped database? Is it a structure of pointers to our database? Other? (I suspect that it is not an image of the database, since the database on the NAS is larger than the local storage of one of our two PC's on which our MC evaluation is being executed.)

3) We want to be able to use MC to add and delete files from our NAS database, so that MC can be a a single point for maintenance of our database. When deleting a file/album in our current "non-server" setup, is the file deleted from the MC Library, or from the NAS disc? (We want to be able to do the latter.)

4) MC has issues displaying our collection, issues that did not exist with WMP. There are many more "unknown artist" albums when viewing the collection in MC that are accurately resolved when viewing in WMP. Perhaps this is actually an MC feature that is highlighting files with erroneous or non-compliant metadata that was created by WMP.

5) We want to re-rip CD's because using MC, the streamed ripped .wav files created using WMP sound inferior to the original CD played through the same DAC/amp/speaker path. Also, we may want to rip to .flac to recover disc space. I questions the quality of the original rip. However, previous threads I have initiated on this subject have been locked by a moderator, so please do not address this specific issue. I don't want this thread to be locked as well. But I wanted to answer your question. I do not suspect that MC is the issue.

6) As far as I am aware, we are not using a server on the NAS. In our two MC instantiations, we have direct-mapped to the NAS database. However, much to our pleasant surprise, our networked Oppo BD-105d is able to "find" these files, so there is evidently a resident server on the NAS, but I didn't install it there.

7) Listener: The NAS is Netgear ReadyNAS Duo RND-2000. It is years old and is not a current Netgear product. When we initially set up our two instantiations of MC, we direct-mapped to the NAS "music" folder.

8 ) RoderickGI: A metadata correction that my wife made using MC on PC1 indeed migrated to my MC library on PC2 after about a day.

9) Listener: When setting up MC on the two PC's, we used the auto-import function to map to specific folders.

Some background which is not so important:

I know a lot about how ethernet and many digital communication protocols work at the electrical and protocol levels (having been a design engineer in tele- and satellite communications for many years), but high level concepts such as the role servers play in this application are nevertheless difficult abstract concepts to me. In fact, during this evaluation, I am gravitating to jriver instead of Roon for several reasons, one of which is because Roon MUST use a server, whereas jriver MAY use a server. Both my wife and myself want our final implementation to be as simple as possible, and require as little housekeeping as possible.
   As accurately stated previously, ripping takes much time and effort, and many of my questions in other threads have been intended to draw upon the experience here to minimize our time and effort.
   Per Listener's suggestion, I'll soon be conducting some experiments to learn now the MC deletion features work in our setup.

[RoderickGI]

1) Cool. I just call them media files because database has a specific meaning to me. Therefore, I wasn't sure of your meaning, particularly in the context of WMP.

2) The MC Library is just an index of all your media files that it has "imported", and is made up of about 120 separate files. I did make a case for the term "Import" to be replaced with the term "Index" at one time, but alas that wasn't accepted. MC doesn't make an image or copy of your media files. Just for your interest, and maybe because you will need to know at some time, the location of the local database can be seen by clicking on;
"Playing Now > Playing from [your PC name] Local Library > [your PC name] Local Library"
At least that is the default naming convention I believe. The full path to the library is shown in the top pane on the right, with some information about it.

3) Yes, you will get what you want with the setup Listener suggested, which is what you currently have. Just don't try to Delete, Move, or Rename the same file at the same time from both PCs. Deletes can either just delete records from the Library, or delete the record from the Library and the media files your NAS, as discussed above. You are given options for this when you try to delete any media. (Note mention of Shift-Delete above.)

4) This is a little harder to explain. The Artist information may only be in the WMP Database/Library (yes, it has a real database, separate to the media files) and not actually in tags in the media files. Therefore MC doesn't find any Artist information in the media files, and hence shows the albums as "Unknown Artist". Or if this is happening for WAV files only, as Jim mentioned elsewhere, you have hit one of the limitations of WAV files; they don't use an agreed tagging standard, so some software will correctly read the tags in them, and other software will not. I think this question should have its own thread, as it could get complex working through the issues and helping you. It is quite possible that your existing tags can be recovered and moved to the standard tags that MC uses though. (I don't use WAV files, so I'm not familiar with which tags they can store, and how they do it. Start a new thread and people will help.)

5) Let's not make this a whole discussion, but what Jim was saying was that as long as there are no errors during a rip, and you are using a lossless format to rip to, then the digital information on the CD and in the media file are identical. If they were played via an identical audio path, they would sound exactly the same. It is quite possible that your "cheap bluray player" was adding some "colour" to the sound, which was the difference you were hearing. The good news is, as long as you have good rips, MC can add the colour you like, or play the original digital audio. Your choice.

6) Direct mapped to the NAS drive, using drive letters or a network address; Excellent. It is quite possible that your NAS has a DLNA server running by default, as it supports such as server, and the Oppo can find that server to display the NAS contents. If you were running the MC DLNA server, you would see the files that way as well. But you don't need either to use MC.

7) Mapped to a folder. Excellent.

8.) That would indicate that the tag changes are being written to the tags correctly, and Auto Import on the PC2 is set up correctly. You could speed up the discovery of changes by manually running Auto Import on PC2. But the process will happen as long PC2 is running MC at some time after the changes were made.

9) Excellent.

[Listener]

First, I agree with what RoderickGI has written in his last post.

1) Your use of the word database was confusing us. JRiver refers to the information it keeps about media files (and ways to view that information as a library.  That information is stored in a database. The media files themselves are not a database in our usage.

2)  The MC database does not contain the content of the media files, just metadata about the files.  (including tag information like artist, album, and attributes like file size, sample size, sample rate and location of the media file.)

3) I've answered this before.

4) There are several possible causes for the difference in what you see in WMP and MC.

a)  I agree with RoderickGI. MC doesn't know what was in the WMP database.  It only knows the name of the media file and any tag information stored in the media file.   The .wav format does not have a widely recognized standard for storing tag information in the media file.  WMP may not have stored Artist tag information in the file or it may have stored it in a format that MC doesn't recognize.

The simplest way to get the tag right information into MC might be to re-rip your files to Flac format.  If you have a lot of CDs, it will take time.

It might be possible to get the Artist, Album and Track name from the folder and file name for the media files.  MC has a good command for extracting that information for a number of files at once.  You will have to learn a bit about that command and how to use it safely but if you have a lot of CDs to rip, it might be quicker.

If you re-rip your CDs, you will want to decide whether to use secure ripping (if MC can't be sure it read the CD correctly, it will let you know.) or Normal mode (faster but may occasionally produce errors in the audio files.)  Consider turning off the "auto-rip" option in (Tools/Options/CD, DVD & BD/Auto Rip...) so that you can review the tag information before the ripping process starts and correct any errors or missing information.

5)  For now, you might play one of your music files with MC and see how it sounds compared to playing the same track using your CD player.  There are several choices for how MC outputs audio and that might produce some difference in sound quality.  You can view choices for the output device and method using "Player/Playback Options/Audio device".  If you are using a USB connection to the DAC, I'd suggest that you try "Wasapi" rather than "Direct Sound".

[RoderickGI]

Yep, I agree with what you are saying as well Listener.

On point 4)a), MC also has the ability to read additional non-standard tags I believe, by the addition of the original tag name to the MC Library fields. Once MC knows about those tags, it is very easy to copy the contents of the tags over to the standard MC tags, after which the original tags could be deleted from the files, and then removed from the MC Library.

If, for example, WMP had tagged your WAV files using the ID2v2.3 tag called "TPE1 (Artist)", then adding that field to the MC Library should allow MC to read it. (Although in the case of ID3v2.3 tags, MC can already read them.) But that requires some research and learning what is actually in the WAV files, and from what I have read, the read process can be a little unreliable. There are threads discussing this.

Note that the ID3v2.3 tag called "TPE1 (Artist)" is one which is used in some of my few WAV files, but the Artist tag could be stored differently in your files. I think there may even be other internal names used for some tags, rather than the English readable ones. You can view what tags are stored in your WAV files that MC knows about by opening the new "Experimental Tag Window" and looking under the "Tag Dump" heading.

So, you need an expert of WAV file tagging and conversion, or to do some more forum reading. Or try the two methods Listener described first, and only resort to reading the non-standard tags if nothing else does what you need, or would take too long.

[Listener]

Yep, I agree with what you are saying as well Listener.

On point 4)a), MC also has the ability to read additional non-standard tags I believe, by the addition of the original tag name to the MC Library fields. Once MC knows about those tags, it is very easy to copy the contents of the tags over to the standard MC tags, after which the original tags could be deleted from the files, and then removed from the MC Library.

If, for example, WMP had tagged your WAV files using the ID2v2.3 tag called "TPE1 (Artist)", then adding that field to the MC Library should allow MC to read it. (Although in the case of ID3v2.3 tags, MC can already read them.) But that requires some research and learning what is actually in the WAV files, and from what I have read, the read process can be a little unreliable. There are threads discussing this.

Note that the ID3v2.3 tag called "TPE1 (Artist)" is one which is used in some of my few WAV files, but the Artist tag could be stored differently in your files. I think there may even be other internal names used for some tags, rather than the English readable ones. You can view what tags are stored in your WAV files that MC knows about by opening the new "Experimental Tag Window" and looking under the "Tag Dump" heading.

So, you need an expert of WAV file tagging and conversion, or to do some more forum reading. Or try the two methods Listener described first, and only resort to reading the non-standard tags if nothing else does what you need, or would take too long.

Why don't you show kmmcd how he can see what tags are present in his .wav files?  I'm having trouble with my hands so typing is very painful now.

[RoderickGI]

Why don't you show kmmcd how he can see what tags are present in his .wav files?  I'm having trouble with my hands so typing is very painful now.

Well, mainly because without doing some research myself, since I haven't read up on it in a long while, and haven't had to use it, is to use the Tag Dump section of the Tag Window. But MC knows about those ones, and should have copied them to its own tags during import.

You can view what tags are stored in your WAV files that MC knows about by opening the new "Experimental Tag Window" and looking under the "Tag Dump" heading.

But as a start, the image shows the new "Experimental Tag Window" with the "Tag Dump" open.

Note: Kmmcd, if your Tag Window looks different, close the Tag Window and hold down the Shift key then click "Tag" again. The new version of the Tag Window will be opened instead of the old version. You can switch back to the old Tag Window by using the Shift-Click method again.

[Listener]

Kmmcd, here's how to view the tags that are present in a wav file with the old tag window:

1. Select a single .wav file.

2. Open the tag pane if it is not already open (Edit/Tag).  In a recent version of MC 22, you might have to press the Shift key when you execute this command.

3. Click just below the word "Tag" at the top of the pane (in the area circled in red in this screenshot.)



4. If the media file you selected has tags present in the file, you will see a list like this



5. If there are no tags present in the media file, you will see something like this



When you are finished looking, you can close this pane with the close button at the top right corner of the pane.

[kmmcd]

Thanks for all of the time that you both have obviously put into helping me understand these issues. I am impressed by this alone. I haven't had an opportunity to try all of the database & metadata related suggestions yet, but I can make the following preliminary statements:

2) RoderickGI: thanks for the technical info; information on this level really helps me understand how things work.

3) my evaluation of various depths of deletion, as suggested days ago, is forthcoming.

4) The  database "unknown" issues are unresolved at this point, due to my time constraints, but I did experience an interesting clue. In the previously-mentioned WMP rip of "Nightmares," the track artist field of some of the tracks, as read in MC, has additional artists (not garbage text) appended to them, resulting in MC classifying the album as "various artists." I re-ripped (to .wav, for purposes of like comparison) using MC, and the MC rip was fine, with no extraneous metadata, and the album is grouped with the artist as expected in the MC database. So, the original rip was bad, or WMP implemented a non-compliant metadata structure. (Oddly, "The Dells" was appended by WMP to the artist field for one track; we have no albums featuring "The Dells; I don't know where this came from.)
    We plan, over the months, to re-rip everything to .flac for a number of reasons, so this may clean up anomalies like this.

[RoderickGI]

You are welcome.

The [Artist] field supports a list of Artists who contributed, separated by a semicolon. If even one track in an album has more than one Artist, the MC will put "(Multiple Artists)" into the [Album Artists (auto)] tag, which is an automatically evaluated tag based on the [Artist] tag. That value is then carried over the [Album Artist] tag. If you want to designate one Artist as the primary Artist for an album, you can just put the primary Artist's name into the [Album Artist] tag.

You can choose to use [Album Artist] in your Views instead of just [Artist] if you wish, or show both.

MC will still identify the album as having "Various Artists", but you don't lose any functionality in viewing, searching, or browsing your music. In fact you get additional functionality.

Even if the [Artist] tag holds multiple Artists for a track or album, searching and sorting by Artist still works correctly; MC understands that a track can have more than one Artist, and will list the track under each Artist's name, if you search for or sort by that name.

This is an area that many people have a bit of trouble grasping.

There are a couple of good Wiki articles on these topics:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Album_Artist_and_Album_Artist_(Auto)
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Multiple_Artist_Albums