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[kolia]

Hello,
A while ago, issues have been reported using Plex as a DLNA library within JRiver (using MC22). When trying to add Plex as a library (video only, JRiver beeing far superior when it comes to audio file management), JRiver keeps reporting an error (see attachment)
There are very good reasons why I use Plex as a video library but I'd like to use JRiver as a video renderer when playing on a large screen.
Is it something dev team is willing to sort out for the new MC23 version?
Thank you

[JimH]

Are you starting in Playing Now?  Plex should show up there in the Playing From section.

[kolia]

Are you starting in Playing Now?  Plex should show up there in the Playing From section.

Indeed. As the new screenshot tells, the library is somewhat loaded but it is not actually active (as reported by the previous screenshot). Should have reported that I run latest MC22 on Win 10 Pro and latest Plex Web server on same PC.

[JimH]

Did you try changing Plex settings for DLNA?

[kolia]

Did you try changing Plex settings for DLNA?

Not yet since I have no clue what should be changed if it needs to be (attached current Plex parameters)

[kolia]

I think some valuable info is missing in the screenshot. Default protocol info parameter is:
http-get:*:video/mpeg:*,http-get:*:video/mp4:*,http-get:*:video/vnd.dlna.mpeg-tts:*,http-get:*:video/avi:*,http-get:*:video/x-matroska:*,http-get:*:video/x-ms-wmv:*,http-get:*:video/wtv:*,http-get:*:audio/mpeg:*,http-get:*:audio/mp3:*,http-get:*:audio/mp4:*,http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma*,http-get:*:audio/wav:*,http-get:*:audio/L16:*,http-get:*image/jpeg:*,http-get:*image/png:*,http-get:*image/gif:*,http-get:*image/tiff:*

[kolia]

At 19:24 I tried to open Plex DNLA library again. Plex DLNA log files reports some errors, see below
Aug 14, 2017 19:23:43.718 [8880] DEBUG - GET for http://192.168.21.246:32469/proxy/36472ff21be1c4fcd421/48x48.png
Aug 14, 2017 19:23:43.718 [8880] DEBUG - Mapped client to generic profile: Connection: Keep-Alive; User-Agent: Windows-Media-Player-DMS/12.0.7601.17514; Host: 192.168.21.246:32469
Aug 14, 2017 19:23:43.730 [8880] DEBUG - Proxied GET to http://127.0.0.1:32400/photo/:/transcode?format=png&height=48&url=http%3A%2F%2F127%2E0%2E0%2E1%3A32400%2F%3A%2Fresources%2Fdlna-icon-260%2Epng&width=48&X-Plex-Token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: HTTP/1.1 200
Aug 14, 2017 19:23:43.730 [8880] DEBUG - Responding HTTP/1.1 200
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.960 [8940] DEBUG - OnSearchContainer for '0' with filter '*' and sort '', paged as 0 + 1000: (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.audioItem.musicTrack")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.960 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped client to generic profile: Accept: */*; Content-Type: text/xml; charset="utf-8"; Host: 192.168.21.246:32469; Soapaction: "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1#Search"; Accept-Encoding: gzip; User-Agent: Microsoft-Windows-XP/2002, UPnP/1.1, JRiver Internet Reader/2.0 (compatible; Windows-Media-Player/10); Content-Length: 617; Connection: Keep-Alive; Cache-Control: no-cache
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.960 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped object 0 to  part 0 on server
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.960 [8940] WARN - OnSearchContainer - unsupported search criteria (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.audioItem.musicTrack")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.961 [8940] DEBUG - OnSearchContainer for '0' with filter '*' and sort '', paged as 0 + 1000: (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.audioItem")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.961 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped client to generic profile: Accept: */*; Content-Type: text/xml; charset="utf-8"; Host: 192.168.21.246:32469; Soapaction: "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1#Search"; Accept-Encoding: gzip; User-Agent: Microsoft-Windows-XP/2002, UPnP/1.1, JRiver Internet Reader/2.0 (compatible; Windows-Media-Player/10); Content-Length: 606; Connection: Keep-Alive; Cache-Control: no-cache
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.962 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped object 0 to  part 0 on server
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.962 [8940] DEBUG - OnSearchContainer returning success with 3 objects
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.967 [8940] DEBUG - OnSearchContainer for '0' with filter '*' and sort '', paged as 0 + 1000: (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.imageItem.photo")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.967 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped client to generic profile: Accept: */*; Content-Type: text/xml; charset="utf-8"; Host: 192.168.21.246:32469; Soapaction: "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1#Search"; Accept-Encoding: gzip; User-Agent: Microsoft-Windows-XP/2002, UPnP/1.1, JRiver Internet Reader/2.0 (compatible; Windows-Media-Player/10); Content-Length: 612; Connection: Keep-Alive; Cache-Control: no-cache
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.967 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped object 0 to  part 0 on server
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.967 [8940] WARN - OnSearchContainer - unsupported search criteria (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.imageItem.photo")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.968 [8940] DEBUG - OnSearchContainer for '0' with filter '*' and sort '', paged as 0 + 1000: (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.imageItem")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.968 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped client to generic profile: Accept: */*; Content-Type: text/xml; charset="utf-8"; Host: 192.168.21.246:32469; Soapaction: "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1#Search"; Accept-Encoding: gzip; User-Agent: Microsoft-Windows-XP/2002, UPnP/1.1, JRiver Internet Reader/2.0 (compatible; Windows-Media-Player/10); Content-Length: 606; Connection: Keep-Alive; Cache-Control: no-cache
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.969 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped object 0 to  part 0 on server
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.969 [8940] WARN - OnSearchContainer - unsupported search criteria (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.imageItem")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.969 [8940] DEBUG - OnSearchContainer for '0' with filter '*' and sort '', paged as 0 + 1000: (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.videoItem")
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.970 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped client to generic profile: Accept: */*; Content-Type: text/xml; charset="utf-8"; Host: 192.168.21.246:32469; Soapaction: "urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ContentDirectory:1#Search"; Accept-Encoding: gzip; User-Agent: Microsoft-Windows-XP/2002, UPnP/1.1, JRiver Internet Reader/2.0 (compatible; Windows-Media-Player/10); Content-Length: 606; Connection: Keep-Alive; Cache-Control: no-cache
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.970 [8940] DEBUG - Mapped object 0 to  part 0 on server
Aug 14, 2017 19:24:46.970 [8940] WARN - OnSearchContainer - unsupported search criteria (upnp:class derivedfrom "object.item.videoItem")

[AndrewFG]

Your issue relates to the UPNP ContentDirectory:Search function. This powerful function has quite complex arguments with many possible semantic variations of the question and answers that are allowed. It seems that Plex is making a search request with a particular semantic that MC is indeed replying to, but apparently using a semantic format that Plex does not understand. It is not clear if the problem is with Plex or MC.

[kolia]

Your issue relates to the UPNP ContentDirectory:Search function. This powerful function has quite complex arguments with many possible semantic variations of the question and answers that are allowed. It seems that Plex is making a search request with a particular semantic that MC is indeed replying to, but apparently using a semantic format that Plex does not understand. It is not clear if the problem is with Plex or MC.

Indeed. I do understand the challenge, as with all communication mechanisms there are two parties that need to agree upon on how to communicate. However, it would be great to have JRiver devs conducting a thorough analysis in order see whether JRiver could adapt the way DNLA messages are handled with Plex. For info, I have been testing PowerDVD 16 as a DLNA server. JRiver fails to connect to it with the same error message. I'm under the impression that something could be done on MC side.

[kolia]

I recently setup an Oppo player (BD203) and used it without any issues as a DLNA renderer and control point connected to the Plex server. It seems to me that MC is the defective component. Is it something that dev team would care to fix? Would be really great.
Thank you

[JimH]

I don't think that it's a defect in JRiver's DLNA support.  JRiver works with a lot of DLNA equipment.  Try the settings for the DLNA Server in MC.

Follow AndrewFG's advice before mine.  He's the expert.

[kolia]

Thanks JimH. I have read AndrewFG's post. I found nothing here that could help to diagnose where the problem come from. Morever he says

It is not clear if the problem is with Plex or MC

.
From what I read here and there, nobody has been able to connect JRiver to Plex. I would be happy to help to fix this issue, but I need some directions. On JRiver side, may I suggest as well that it is easy and quick to setup a Plex server (free). So by joining our efforts we could get this fixed.
Connecting the Oppo 203 to Plex server was done instantly, I may be wrong, but this leads me to think there is something wrong with JRiver. BTW, I was not able to connect JRiver to PowerDVD DLNA server either.

[AndrewFG]

^
The issue you have between your Oppo and MC is certainly totally unrelated to the original posted issue between Plex and MC. That problem is due to the UPNP CDS:Search function -- which the Oppo does not use. So if you want help on the Oppo issue I suggest to open another thread to discuss that issue separately.

[AndrewFG]

^
Concerning your issue between Plex and MC, I read your Plex debug log listing again https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111800.msg772535.html#msg772535

This log listing is stating that Plex does not understand several of the CDS:Search requests issued to it by MC, and that it (Plex) is returning a Soap error response. Now I know for a fact that MCs CDS:Search requests are entirely semantically correct according to the Upnp specification, and indeed they are rather easy to understand. Therefore I am afraid to say that your problem is actually with the Plex server and not with MC.

[kolia]

I don't have any issue with the Oppo. It is the opposite: I can connect the Oppo to Plex server without any issue, and play movies that are rendered by the Oppo player. I reported this because I thought it might help to understand why JRiver will not connect to Plex server or PowerDVD DLNA server either. Was it misleading?

[AndrewFG]

^
Yes.

[kolia]

Thanks AndrewFG to take the time to analyze again Plex log file.

^
Concerning your issue between Plex and MC, I read your Plex debug log listing again https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111800.msg772535.html#msg772535

This log listing is stating that Plex does not understand several of the CDS:Search requests issued to it by MC, and that it (Plex) is returning a Soap error response. Now I know for a fact that MCs CDS:Search requests are entirely semantically correct according to the Upnp specification, and indeed they are rather easy to understand. Therefore I am afraid to say that your problem is actually with the Plex server and not with MC.

Please find JRiver log file as well.

One could say that some requests, while semantically correct on JRiver side are not supported by Plex server (that is Plex maybe supports a subset of the semantics), and one could say as well that changing the way JRiver post these requests could make things working. I'm sure that you know like me, that specifications are one thing and real life another one. So it is a matter of knowing whether we want things moving forward or not.

And again, why JRiver is not able to connect to two completely different DLNA servers as reported?

Thanks again for your time.

[kolia]

^
Yes.

Could you let me know what is misleading in saying:

Connecting the Oppo 203 to Plex server was done instantly

Thanks

[AndrewFG]

^
But to be more specific..

When the Oppo connects to a media server, it accesses the library using the CDS:Browse function. This function is used as its name implies for downloading media library entries on a page by page basis under control of the user browsing through those pages.

On the other hand, when MC connects to a media server, it needs to download the entire library without any browsing interaction by the user. For that reason it does not use CDS:Browse, but instead it uses the CDS:Search function with the wildcard "*" search filter, which means "give me everything you have".

Apparently Plex does not support CDS:Search("*"). You should report this problem to the Plex developers. It's not an MC problem.

[kolia]

Thanks AndrewFG, it makes things clearer and I do understand the difference between the two approaches. So it is really a matter of semantics. But then, allow me to ask why JRiver does not support CDS:Browse function as well, as a fallback mechanism in order to maximize the number of DLNA servers it could connect to. Is it a major design issue, or something else?

[AndrewFG]

^
The MC design philosophy to create a local database of the library which contains upfront a full listing of the location of all media files together with all tags, images and other meta data, so that you can structure your own views for browsing the library, without having to go back to the source files every time. This makes it much faster and much more powerful and useful. So when MC connects to a library located on local or network hard disk, it does a File System Search "*.*" to load the library; and when it connects to a UPNP library server it does a CDS:Search("*") to do the load.

[kolia]

I understand and appreciate the benefits of this design philosophy. However, the bottom line of an exclusive approach leads to making at least 2 DLNA servers that I know of not able to talk to MC (Plex and PowerDVD). I would not be surprised there are many others. It is nice to set expectations high in terms of user experience, however, I think it would be nicer to widen the capabilities of interconnection of JRiver even the cost of a reduce set of functionalities. I’m pretty sure it would be possible to make them cohabits. I’m well aware that DLNA is a complex and sensitive matter, however I think it is worth the effort. Thank you for sharing information and thoughts. Just for the records I posted a question on Plex forum. I would be surprise there is an answer, we shall see.

[RoderickGI]

If I understand Andrew's description, the two methods couldn't cohabit. At least not to give anything meaningful in MC.

It would be like asking someone to list all cars ever made, and index then sort them by Brand, Year, and Model. Then to do what you have asked you show them two cars, and if they ask, you show them another two cars, and so on.

I guess in theory over time you could build up a complete list. But it would be very slow and inefficient. By the time you had any meaningful set of data, the person who asked for it has lost interest.

[RoderickGI]

A while ago, issues have been reported using Plex as a DLNA library within JRiver (using MC22). When trying to add Plex as a library (video only, JRiver beeing far superior when it comes to audio file management)

BTW, if the above is really your requirement, then the solution is to use MC for all Audio management and playback, and use Plex to manage Video, then PUSH playback to MC as the DLNA Renderer.

By trying to connect MC to a Plex server you are trying to PULL Video content from the Plex server to play in MC. That method won't work, for the above reasons. However MC should appear as an available DLNA Renderer in Plex, so you should be able to push Videos from Plex to MC.

[kolia]

It is really a matter of accessing the database using two different approches: 1/the original JRiver one, accessing a local database that is quite powefull in terms of managing views, etc, 2/ or just browse remotely what is available and get metadata that DLNA supports. It is obvious that the JRiver genuine approche is more powerfull, no doubt on that, I would'nt say that the second approach can't cohabit with the first one.

[kolia]

BTW, if the above is really your requirement, then the solution is to use MC for all Audio management and playback, and use Plex to manage Video, then PUSH playback to MC as the DLNA Renderer.

By trying to connect MC to a Plex server you are trying to PULL Video content from the Plex server to play in MC. That method won't work, for the above reasons. However MC should appear as an available DLNA Renderer in Plex, so you should be able to push Videos from Plex to MC.

Yes I do manage audio with jriver, much much powerfull I agree on that. Thanks for the tip, I will try that right away

[kolia]

However MC should appear as an available DLNA Renderer in Plex, so you should be able to push Videos from Plex to MC.

Could you show me the direction in Plex where I can see MC as a DLNA renderer?(option is indeed activated within MC)
Thanks

[RoderickGI]

Sorry I'm not a Plex user, so I don't know how to advise you here.

However I know Plex does play on many devices, mostly via DLNA is my understanding, and in many cases uses a Plex enabled device as a "Remote Control" (DLNA Controller) to direct output to a DLNA Renderer. So if MC is configured to act as a DLNA Renderer, it should be pretty obvious how to point Plex at it, and play video to MC. Of course that method doesn't mean you are going to get the best out of MC, unless Plex is configured to send the original file to MC, with no transcoding or anything else. So you will need to make sure both Plex and MC are set up correctly.

The Plex forum is where you are going to find help on that, since the most important settings will be in Plex, acting as the DLNA server.

[blgentry]

What is it that's so great about Plex that you are putting in all of this time and energy to try to make MC able to pull from the Plex database?  Have you tried JRiver for video?

I'm having a hard time figuring out why Plex would be worth using when you're using MC as a head end for it. (DLNA controller)  I mean, don't you lose any benefit of Plex's GUI when you're using MC to control it?  ...and I can't imagine anything that Plex can do with database organization that MC can't do...

Brian.

[tyler69]

While I can't answer for the OP, for me it's "great" to have a Synology application available for Plex.

[blgentry]

^ So you can run Plex on your NAS device directly?  But the OP is running MC on a computer, so having a Plex app on a NAS isn't helpful.  Or do you mean something else?

Brian.

[kolia]

@RoderickGI

However I know Plex does play on many devices, mostly via DLNA is my understanding

I don't think so. Plex use it's own protocol to fling the stream to many different device types. As a matter of fact, I don't think Plex app can send a DLNA stream to a DLNA renderer (as JRiver for instance). I could not see a way to achieve that.
@blgentry

What is it that's so great about Plex that you are putting in all of this time and energy to try to make MC able to pull from the Plex database?  Have you tried JRiver for video?

I'm having a hard time figuring out why Plex would be worth using when you're using MC as a head end for it. (DLNA controller)  I mean, don't you lose any benefit of Plex's GUI when you're using MC to control it?  ...and I can't imagine anything that Plex can do with database organization that MC can't do...

This is indeed a very good point. There are quite a few not to say more than a few pros that are in favor of Plex for video (for audio, again, no doubt that MC by far superior, it not even a question). Lets try to drop some Plex pros against MC:
- Movies are indexed in the langage of your choice (as far as I know MC is english only)
- Plex can stream to many device types (TV, PC, tablets, Phone, Xbox, Roku, Apple TV); the list is almost endless
- Plex is very efficient to transcode on the fly in order to adapt the bit rate depending on the target device horse power and the speed of the link
- To me, Plex UI is much more convenient to the casual user, and even to me who is not a casual user;)
- Better handling of extras either in series or movies
- Easier to handle series with Plex (MC made some improvements lately)
- MC stores the movie covert arts in the same folder as the video file (which is not the case for audio files). To me the original files and folders should stay untouched.

BUT when it comes to play a movie in a theater with an HTPC, I'm under the impression that MC video rendering is better. As of now, Plex apps for large screen are not at the same level of performance.

Since I'm primarely using Plex for movies and series (roughly 1000 movies), I don't want to manage and maintain two different libraries, it is two much of a burden. This is why came the idea to use DLNA between the two.

MC and Plex server are installed on a dedicated HTPC mainly for horsepower. In the past I installed Plex on a Synology which I think is not a good idea mainly because CPU's are low end. NAS is dedicated to file storage, period. I'm not in favor to load a NAS with apps this could lead to instability and low performance and many other issues (like security).

[blgentry]

Edit:  Never mind.

Good luck with your project.

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

@RoderickGII don't think so. Plex use it's own protocol to fling the stream to many different device types. As a matter of fact, I don't think Plex app can send a DLNA stream to a DLNA renderer (as JRiver for instance). I could not see a way to achieve that.

It seems you could be right. Plex users have been asking for DLNA Controller and Renderer support for at least five years, as recently as June, but I guess they still have not added it. https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/42463/plex-as-dlna-control-point/p3

You want JRiver to add the DLNA CDS:Browse function to work with Plex, but Plex is an incomplete DLNA implementation, having no Controller or Renderer functionality, and no CDS:Search("*") support. So you want JRiver to dumb down MC to the level of Plex. That will result in a degradation of performance, and comments like this: I had issues with large libraries loading too slowly on DLNA devices. That doesn't seem like a good idea.

Google "Plex DLNA Controller" and you will find there are many people who want Plex to act as a Controller and be able to push content to a Renderer. It seems Plex continue to ignore the request.

- Movies are indexed in the langage of your choice (as far as I know MC is english only)

MC itself is available in 22 languages. JRiver recently added the ability to gather metadata in 23 languages, if the data is available, with fallback to English.

23.0.38 (8/18/2017)
2. NEW: "Get Movie & TV Info" now offers a language choice for metadata lookup (currently available with TheTVDB and TheMovieDB).

- Plex can stream to many device types (TV, PC, tablets, Phone, Xbox, Roku, Apple TV); the list is almost endless

Agree. It is the one area Plex has a significant advantage over MC. It is their forté.

- Plex is very efficient to transcode on the fly in order to adapt the bit rate depending on the target device horse power and the speed of the link

MC transcodes efficiently. But I believe Plex does more to identify the capabilities of the target device and adapt. This probably results in a better experience on low power devices. So yes, probably true.

- To me, Plex UI is much more convenient to the casual user, and even to me who is not a casual user;)

This one is subjective, so fine. Many people would like to see more eye candy in MC, particularly for video.

- Better handling of extras either in series or movies

Agree. The new View Extras was a start. But it needs some more work. Things like Trailers being linked to their movies and so on would also help. Plus an active forms based layout of movie and TV show information that supports HTML code, links, etc., rather than the current "list like" layout.

- Easier to handle series with Plex (MC made some improvements lately)

MC always handled TV Series extremely well, as long as I have been using it. Movie series? The only improvement I can relate to is the slightly easier/better collection of Season and Episode metadata, and improvements in the lookup of that data.

- MC stores the movie covert arts in the same folder as the video file (which is not the case for audio files). To me the original files and folders should stay untouched.

This one is subjective as well. For me, having the sidecar files for additional tag data, and any extra files such as Cover Art that apply to just one media file should reside next to that media file. For TV Series and Season Cover Art, which applies to multiple files, it makes some sense to store the images separately. If a sub-directory structure of Series\Season\Episode files was enforced those files could reside within the sub-directories. But no structure is enforced, so a central location works best. In my opinion.
I store Audio Cover Art inside the file, wherever possible, and next to the file when it is not. Different opinions. 

Anyway, as Brian says, good luck with your project.

[kolia]

JRiver recently added the ability to gather metadata in 23 languages, if the data is available, with fallback to English.

In was in 23.0.36, so I could not see it Thanks for the tip. However I would suggest that MC allows to set a default language value for metadata lookup. Maybe I overlooked it, but I could not find such an option. As of now, you have to reselect it for each lookup.

[Hendrik]

In was in 23.0.36, so I could not see it Thanks for the tip. However I would suggest that MC allows to set a default language value for metadata lookup. Maybe I overlooked it, but I could not find such an option. As of now, you have to reselect it for each lookup.

The default is selected in Options -> General -> Online Metadata -> Default metadata lookup language

[kolia]

Thank's Hendrik

[JimH]

Options has a search window at the bottom.

[kolia]

Thanks to everyone for the kind support and interesting discussion

[NiToNi]

Kolia, did you ever get this to work?

I think the main reason people want JRiver to work with Plex or Emby is because they Uae them as streaming services for video content (like Spotify, Tidal or Quboz for music).

[kolia]

I'm currently running MC25 and the last Plex version but I haven't tried again since that time. It may be worth to do some tries