More > JRiver Media Center 23 for Windows
JRiver outputting 2.0 channel stereo as if it were 5.1 multichannel
MazingerZ:
Although the ZoneSwitch feature definitely works as you suggested, it can get complicated (and I'm not sure if it will work properly) if you use the ZoneSwitch for other rules (together with the number of source channels rules).
Let's say I have these two playback zones:
(1) Zone A (Playback = 5.1 HDMI Receiver / living room)
(2) Zone B (Playback = USB DAC with 4 speakers: Front and Surround)
And I want to set up these ZoneSwitch rules:
(1) Classical genre goes to Zone B.
(2) And non-classical genre goes to Zone A
Note that classical songs can be stereo or 5.1, or 4.0/5.0.
The same thing for non-classical songs, they can also be stereo or 5.1, or 4.0/5.0.
How would this work if I want to apply the above rules, in addition to the channels output rules ?
What I really need is to be able to select these output channels below in each Zone:
(1) Zone A (5.1 HDMI Receiver):
Output Channels = "Source number of channels, except map to 5.1 for 4.0/5.0 sources" (new feature request)
(2) Zone B (USB DAC - 4 speakers):
Output Channels= 4 Channels with JRRS mixing (existing function works fine)
I.e., it makes more sense to apply the channels rule within the Channels functionality (new feature request) - and not in the ZoneSwitch rules.
wer:
It can be done with ZoneSwitch. You can make however complicated a set of rules you need. You just need to remember that the first match controls. No new feature is needed. (Also, the definition of your "feature" is incomplete: what about 3.0 or 2.1? What about 6.0 or 6.1? What about mapping to 7.1 instead of 5.1? You would need a matrix to accommodate all cases. Not everyone has your exact need and problem. What you're saying "makes more sense" really doesn't to everyone; just to you. Plus, many don't have your unfortunate hardware limitation, where the receiver won't do what you want. It's too bad your receiver won't apply the effects you want to anything but 2-channel signals; lots of receivers will. I assume you've double-checked to ensure it's not also a configuration option in your receiver.)
I don't really understand the example you gave because both zones you're defining are multi-channel zones, there's no stereo zone. But whatever, I'll make a simplifying assumption to make it more clear for you:
Suppose you want stereo and multi-channel sound handled separately, because you want your receiver to do something proprietary. Further assume you want classical music processed separately from all other types (say, because you want different equalizer settings for classical than for rock).
This is easily handled: we have described four processing options, so define four zones:
Zone 1: Classical Stereo
Zone 2: Classical Multi-channel
Zone 3: Non-Classical Stereo
Zone 4: Non-Classical Multi-channel
Configure your ZoneSwitch rule accordingly. It's a non-issue.
This sort of thing can also be done using DSP Presets, if you'd like to research that, and don't want to mess with Zones. By setting the DSP tag for each file, a different set of DSP settings can be loaded on a per-file basis. There are some significant problems/limitations with the current implementation of DSP presets in MC that prevent me from recommending it:
1. There is no "default" DSP preset. This effectively means you must tag every file in your library with a preset; the DSP settings will be changed with the tag is read, and will NOT be changed if the tag is entry. This is unfortunate, but it's the way it is.
2. Some DSP settings, like Output Format (important for your case) will not change unless playback is stopped. This means the Output Format module won't change when advancing from one track to another within a playlist. This would break functionality for you if you mixed stereo and multi-channel classical in the same playlist or "album".
DSP Presets and ZoneSwitch can be used at the same time, on the same file. Be careful. If you don't know what you're doing, it will be easy to get confusing results, or no results at all. :)
So I suggest you stick with ZoneSwitch. It will get the job done, but it's just a bit of a maintenance burden to have to maintain the configuration of many zones.
I hope this helps. Good luck...
MazingerZ:
One of the requirements is to be able to send the original 4.0 or 5.0 source to the receiver through HDMI, without any JRRS mixing.
I only need to output a minimum 5.1 signal to the HDMI/receiver to be able to do that.
It doesn't matter if I have a 5.1 or 7.1 or 6.1 receiver/speaker setup, the receiver (5.1 or 7.1 or 6.1) will be able to take the 5.1 signal (with only the 4 or 5 channels populated, and no audio upmixed to other channels or .1 LFE).
So even if I have a 6.1 or 7.1 setup, I do not need to send/wrap it as a 6.1 or 7.1 output.
If you want to include 3.0 source channels to this feature request, OK fine ( and also send it to the receiver in a 5.1 signal).
I'm not familiar with 6.0 or 6.1 sources, so I cannot comment on that.
Regarding the stereo requirement, this is not a limitation of my receiver.
I'm talking about the upmixing feature of (modern) receivers from stereo to 5.1 (or 7.1 or however number of speakers you have).
If you send a 5.1 signal (with silent center/surround channels) to a receiver with a 5.1 setup, it will not do a stereo to 5.1 upmixing at all because the signal is already the same as the receiver/speaker setup.
So I need to send a stereo signal to my 5.1 receiver/speaker setup, so that it will upmix to 5.1.
I don't want to use the built-in JRiver upmixing if I'm sending to the receiver - I want the receiver to do that.
This is a common use case, and not unique to me.
I do not have a stereo audio device - but I have two multi-channel devices that I want to send different audio sources (stereo and multi-channel, including 5.0 and 4.0) to:
(a) 5.1 (or 7.1) HDMI Receiver
(b) 4.0 USB DAC
If I set up the zones below, is it possible to configure the ZoneSwitch rules ?
Zone 1 (5.1 Receiver/HDMI): Classical (stereo/5.1 source): Output channels = Source number of channels (compatible with HDMI),
and do NOT apply any equalization/"loudness" DSP
Zone 2 (5.1 Receiver/HDMI): Classical (4.0/5.0 source): Output channels = 5.1 (to make it compatible with HDMI), no JRRS mixing,
and do NOT apply any equalization/"loudness" DSP
Zone 3 (5.1 Receiver/HDMI): Non-Classical (stereo/5.1 source): Output channels = Source number of channels (compatible with HDMI)
and apply an equalization/"loudness" DSP to non-classical songs
Zone 4 (5.1 Receiver/HDMI): Non-Classical (4.0/5.0 source): Output channels = 5.1 (to make it compatible with HDMI, no JRRS mixing
and apply an equalization/"loudness" DSP to non-classical songs
Zone 5 (4.0 DAC): Classical, regardless of number of channels ( stereo,5.1,4.0,5.0) of the source: Output channels = 4.0, with JRRS mixing,
DO NOT apply any equalization/"loudness" DSP to classical music
Zone 6 (4.0 DAC): Non-Classical, regardless of number of channels (stereo,5.1,4.0,5.0) of the source: Output channels = 4.0, with JRRS mixing,
and apply an equalization/"loudness" DSP to non-classical songs
I don't mind selecting the audio device manually.
If the feature that I'm requesting is available, I only need to set up two zones:
Zone 1: Classical, DO NOT apply any equalization/"loudness" DSP to classical music
Zone 2: Non-Classical, apply an equalization/"loudness" DSP to non-classical songs
I can manually select the 5.1 receiver or 4.0 USB DAC as the audio device.
And I can also manually select Channels = "Source number of channels, but output 5.1 if the source is 3.0 or 4.0 or 5.0" (if this feature is available) if I'm using the receiver.
Or select Channels = 4, with JRRS mixing (this feature is already available) if I'm using the 4.0 USB DAC.
Simple.
wer:
--- Quote from: MazingerZ on September 20, 2020, 12:39:33 am ---Regarding the stereo requirement, this is not a limitation of my receiver.
I'm talking about the upmixing feature of (modern) receivers from stereo to 5.1 (or 7.1 or however number of speakers you have).
If you send a 5.1 signal (with silent center/surround channels) to a receiver with a 5.1 setup, it will not do a stereo to 5.1 upmixing at all because the signal is already the same as the receiver/speaker setup.
--- End quote ---
I understand exactly what you're talking about, and I'm sorry, but you're making an extrapolation that is not correct. Some receivers and processors are capable of what yours is not. For example, Yamaha receivers are perfectly happy to apply the upmixing effects to the left and right channels of a 5.1 or 7.1 source. I know this because I do it every day. The limitation your receiver has is not ubiquitous amongst "modern receivers" and processors.
(I'll mention, just an an aside for others who might eventually see your question and be interested: JRSS is an easy option but not the only one; some people don't like JRSS, so it is also possible to have MC apply upmixing (using para-eq and effects modules, not JRSS), equivalent to what the receiver would do, such as cloning the left/right channels to the side or rear channels to create pseudo-quadraphonic sound. This can be done based on rules so it can be applied selectively to different sources. Or one can let the receiver/processor do it. MC is flexible in this regard.)
I don't disagree with the sentiment of your feature request; it would just have to be more rigorously defined than what you gave. It would make some things easier for some people with some equipment. We'll just have to want and see if JRiver implements it.
Back to your question. I've tried to be as clear as I can, and I don't want to keep repeating myself, but you asked again, and so one more time, and even for your 6-zone example, YES, WHAT YOU WANT IS POSSIBLE WITH ZONESWITCH.
I hope this additional confirmation has helped. Good luck, and enjoy the music! :)
MazingerZ:
I have the current Denon/Marantz ( they work the same way ) processor with the Dolby Surround, Neural:X , and Auro 2D/3D processing, and it does not upmix a 5.1 audio source with a 5.1 speaker setup.
I know that you already said multiple times that it can be done using ZoneSwitch, however I'm still not able to figure out the ZoneSwitch rules to apply in my example. If I'm doing something wrong, it would be good if someone can actually show me how to do it.
In my 6 zone example, it would obviously be impossible to set up a rule to let the JRiver decide which audio device to use ( the receiver or the USB DAC ) -- only I can decide that (manually).
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