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[Gatherum]

Title basically says it.

I'm trying to stream audio to my PlayStation 4 Pro via DLNA, but ironically enough, Sony's Media Player application for the console does not support PCM as an output format, making the MP3 options the only ones currently viable. I'd prefer a lossless solution.

As a note, Media Player on PS4 supports AAC/M4A, FLAC, and MP3. My audio library is comprised almost entirely of APE's and MKA's.

[RoderickGI]

I assume you meant;

Sony's Media Player application for the console does not support PCM as an input format

So those are MKA's containing FLAC audio? Interesting choice I hadn't considered.

Maybe the PS4 doesn't recognise the FLAC format inside an MKA file? Have you tried streaming a *.flac file to it?

Do you have the MC DLNA Audio format set to "Original" when you are sending the MKA files?

However, the key words in that page you linked to are "When using a USB storage device". What about when using the PS4 as a DLNA Renderer, which is what you said you were trying to do. What audio formats does it support then? I couldn't see anything that confirmed the PS4 DLNA Renderer component could play the same formats. I guess you are assuming that it does.

I can see in the user guide that a PS4 can connect to a server, which I assume would be a DLNA server, and then act as a DLNA Controller probably to pull data from the server. But the User Guide doesn't mention DLNA anywhere.

Then I found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/5d2owk/does_ps4_pro_have_dlna_renderer_capability/

Dated November 2016, and just user talk on Reddit, but what you are trying to do won't work if it is still true.

Given the above, you should run the Media Renderer Analyser created by user AndrewFG here on the forum and see what the PS4 is capable of.

[Gatherum]

So those are MKA's containing FLAC audio? Interesting choice I hadn't considered.

Maybe the PS4 doesn't recognise the FLAC format inside an MKA file? Have you tried streaming a *.flac file to it?

Ahh, I should have specified: The MKA's in my library contain DTS(-MA), Dolby Digital/TrueHD, and Linear PCM files ripped from DVD's and BD's. Some of the music albums I buy come with high-resolution copies on such discs. The rest of my library is either ripped from CD's in APE, or digitally downloaded in FLAC to be converted to APE. I have one album in FLAC, but that's because it was a digital download in 5.1 surround sound, which is not supported by Monkey's Audio.

To answer your question, no, none of my MKA's contain FLAC encodes.

I assume that the output modes in MC initiate an on-the-fly transcode-and-stream, so I figured that having FLAC as an option would allow the above media to be streamed losslessly.

However, the key words in that page you linked to are "When using a USB storage device". What about when using the PS4 as a DLNA Renderer, which is what you said you were trying to do. What audio formats does it support then? I couldn't see anything that confirmed the PS4 DLNA Renderer component could play the same formats. I guess you are assuming that it does.

I can see in the user guide that a PS4 can connect to a server, which I assume would be a DLNA server, and then act as a DLNA Controller probably to pull data from the server. But the User Guide doesn't mention DLNA anywhere.

Then I found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/5d2owk/does_ps4_pro_have_dlna_renderer_capability/

Dated November 2016, and just user talk on Reddit, but what you are trying to do won't work if it is still true.

Given the above, you should run the Media Renderer Analyser created by user AndrewFG here on the forum and see what the PS4 is capable of.

The PS4's support of DLNA doesn't appear to be formally documented, and I can only posit that this is because Sony is erroneously assuming that the feature would not be widely used. Nevertheless, the Media Player app (which is a first-party app) does detect MC's DLNA broadcast (if that's the correct terminology), and can play back the media therein. I assume that it is "pulling", but I'm by no means an expert on the matter. See attached. Relevant server is SCHMENG-DT-4.

(Audio playback is only working because I have the audio output mode in MC set to MP3 high bandwidth at the moment. No additional DSP settings. I have the video output mode set to H264-TS 720p AutoFPS. Both are set to Specified output format only when necessary. Otherwise, I only have the DLNA, DLNAExtra, and PlayStation 3 compatible settings checked.)

I downloaded and installed the Media Renderer Analyser to my HTPC, but I don't know how to use it; there isn't much in documentation on website. It only seems to detect MC as a media renderer. Is that to say that the PS4 does not appear to it as a renderer?

[RoderickGI]

First, I know enough to be dangerous when it comes to DLNA. 

In DLNA Jargon, if you use the PS4 interface to look at what is on the MC DLNA Server, you are using the PS4 as a DLNA Controller. If you then play media from the MC DLNA Server on the PS4, you are "Pulling" media from the MC Server. You are also rendering the media on the PS4, but that doesn't mean that the PS4 is a DLNA Renderer specifically. Although normally it would. It depends on how Sony built it. Your attached images show that you are pulling media from the MC DLNA Server.

If you were using MC to select the media you want to play, then playing it on the PS4, MC would be acting as a DLNA Server and Controller, and the PS4 would be acting as a DLNA Renderer. That would be "Pushing" media via DLNA. You could also do that by using a DLNA Controller App on a phone or tablet, selecting media from the MC Server and then playing it on the PS4.

Does the PS4 show inside MC under "Playing Now" along with the default "Player"? For example, my DLNA Renderer capable Sony TV appears in Playing Now as a target device to play to.

If the both MC and Media Renderer Analyser can't see the PS4, then that would imply that the PS4 isn't advertising itself as a DLNA Renderer, or is not capable of acting as just a Renderer. With the quick Google I did yesterday, it seems that is likely. But AndrewFG is the DLNA expert around here and author of the Media Renderer Analyser, so search the forum for discussions he has participated in about it. I pretty sure the Media Renderer Analyser is quite straight forward, but I haven't done more than just have a quick look at it, because I haven't needed to analyse my renderers. PM Andrew if need be. He is a helpful fellow. He may even already know the PS4 capabilities.


Out of interest, can the PS4 play the one FLAC 5.1 file you have? Worth trying to confirm its capabilities before "fixing" the DLNA conversion issue.

You could also try creating some new FLAC versions of your MKA files using the MC Conversion function (Tools > Library Tools > Convert Format). Then try playing those FLAC files on the PS4, again, confirming its capability.

If so you can add your voice to the others who have asked for more conversion options in the DLNA configuration, or even just the ability to use External Encoders of our choice.

[Gatherum]

...Ugh!

I hate to say it, but it looks like the PS4 is less equipped than I thought: It fails to play any of the files in the one 5.1 FLAC album. Detects it as a playable file and tries, mind you--just fails (the APE's and MKA's don't even appear).

However, the issue isn't that they're FLAC files; it's that they're 5.1 surround. It doesn't make any darn sense to me that they wouldn't offer such functionality in an app on a console capable of taking 7.1 LPCM for games and movies, but it would appear that Sony's Media Player only supports 2-channel audio.

That being said, suspecting this, I went ahead and converted one of my 2-channel files (an MKA containing PCM, 96/24) to FLAC and the resulting file played back just fine.

I think there's still a case to be made, since the vast majority of anybody's music library is going to be 2-channel audio anyway.

And no, unfortunately: The PS4 does not appear in MC's list of zones, so unless there's something I'm missing, it doesn't appear that content can be pushed to it.

For comparison, the Xbox One Media Player--which works just like Sony's in that it can pull--also fails to play APE's and MKA's (containing DTS(-MA) or PCM), but successfully plays them when output mode is set to PCM 24 Bit (2- or 5.1-channel). It also successfully plays FLAC's (in spite of the format not being listed amongst those officially supported), even in 5.1--though oddly enough, it sends the audio for the side channels to the back channels.

Interestingly, the Xbox One does appear in MC's list of playback zones, so one can push to it. Attempting to do so prompted it to open the app store for me to download Groove. I did so, and as with Media Player, it successfully played the 5.1 FLAC's. I'm not sure why it doesn't just open the aforementioned Media Player, but it is what it is.

...I'm sorry. It occurs to me that it might have been worth mentioning that all audio in my setup passes through a Marantz SR-5008 A/V receiver. I don't know if that's particularly relevant to this discussion or not.

[RoderickGI]

<snip> even in 5.1--though oddly enough, it sends the audio for the side channels to the back channels.

That is common enough. Google channel layout for 5.1 vs 7.1. The channels 5&6 in 5.1 move to 7&8 in 7.1. A known issue, and not always handled well in players. Lots of discussion and fixes or workarounds in the forum, depending on your setup.

It occurs to me that it might have been worth mentioning that all audio in my setup passes through a Marantz SR-5008 A/V receiver. I don't know if that's particularly relevant to this discussion or not.

That depends on how you have everything connected. If the PS4 and XBox One are sending PCM via HDMI to the Marantz, then probably no issue at all. If they are sending FLAC or Dolby Digital or some other encoded format, then the Marantz is doing the decoding, so that is a whole different issue.


It looks like you are out of luck with the PS4 though, and the XBox One isn't much better. Crippled. Do it their way, or take the highway. Microsoft is pushing Groove like mad. It seems to get set back to being the default player on my Windows 10 PC for many files, even though I have told it to do nothing. Annoying.

[AndrewFG]

Can you please test the Sony with the DMRA (which you can download from my sig) and post the report here? That should tell you what the Sony claims to be able to play.

[Gatherum]

It looks like you are out of luck with the PS4 though, and the XBox One isn't much better. Crippled. Do it their way, or take the highway. Microsoft is pushing Groove like mad. It seems to get set back to being the default player on my Windows 10 PC for many files, even though I have told it to do nothing. Annoying.

Odd. That doesn't happen to me. Are you doing anything with it? o.o

Can you please test the Sony with the DMRA (which you can download from my sig) and post the report here? That should tell you what the Sony claims to be able to play.

How? It's not detecting it, and I'm not sure how to make it do so.

[AndrewFG]

How? It's not detecting it, and I'm not sure how to make it do so.

If it's not detecting, that is probably due to a routing or firewall issue. Which might also explain the troubles you have playing audio..

[Gatherum]

I already have it allowed through the firewall, and media plays just fine to my devices when the file formats are compatible...

Do I need to forward a port?

EDIT: It detects my Xbox One.

[AndrewFG]

The DMRA has two ways to search for renderers - see checkbox on the top right.

[Gatherum]

It does not find the PS4 either way, whether the Media Player app is running or not.

Looking it up, I think I can confirm RoderickGI's previous suspicions: If the PS4 is a DLNA renderer, it does not properly report itself as such.

[JimH]

Did you try adding a server in Media Network  > Add or edit DLNA Servers?  There is a PS3 server that might work.

[RoderickGI]

Odd. That doesn't happen to me. Are you doing anything with it? o.o

Nothing special. I don't usually run it. But it only seems to want to take back file associations on my Workstation, not on my HTPC, so it could be just that I muck around more on my Workstation.


He has that set up already Jim. It appears that the PS4 is not a DLNA Renderer, but is able to render media that it pulls to itself via DLNA, as a Controller. Weird.

Both are set to Specified output format only when necessary. Otherwise, I only have the DLNA, DLNAExtra, and PlayStation 3 compatible settings checked.)

[Gatherum]

Did you try adding a server in Media Network  > Add or edit DLNA Servers?  There is a PS3 server that might work.

I edited the PS4 entry to match the settings of the PS3 template. Same result: not working.

[Gatherum]

Bump?

[blgentry]

Is your PS4 on the same router/switch as your computer?  If they are on different routers, that might explain why the analyzer can't find it.

Brian.

[Gatherum]

Nope. Same router. Wired, even.

[mattkhan]

I have a PS4 and attempted to get it working with jriver once & had a similar experience, I could play on the PS4 (albeit it was quite unreliable) but could not push to it. IIRC, and a quick google appears to confirm this, it simply is not a dlna renderer. Same applies to the PS4 Pro too.

fwiw http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps4/Media_Services#DLNA_render_profiles goes into detail on what it actually supports (formats etc)

[Gatherum]

fwiw http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps4/Media_Services#DLNA_render_profiles goes into detail on what it actually supports (formats etc)

To reiterate, it does support FLAC, in spite of its absence in this profile.

[RoderickGI]

Yeah, that Wiki was last updated in July 2015, and it looks like FLAC support was added after that.

Try this:
Use the PS4 to pull some music from MC via DLNA. Just one track.
While the music is playing, does the PS4 show up in MC? If so, try to push some more music from MC to the PS4. Does an extra track appear on the PS4 or play after the first track, or replace that track?

While the PS4 is playing one track it pulled, run Andrew's DMRA. Is it detected? If so, report.

I know you said;

It does not find the PS4 either way, whether the Media Player app is running or not.

But I read something that might imply the above could work.

Otherwise, these sorts of comments seem to be accurate, even if they are from a while back.

[Gatherum]

But I read something that might imply the above could work.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. The PS4 doesn't appear at all to MC.