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[InflatableMouse]

A while back I suddenly lost my hearing on the right side including an extreme case of tinnitus (phantom sound) that sounds like (and as loud as) a circular saw cutting through wood - in my ear. What's really weird is that when the tinnitus is really bad, I also get an increase in pressure sensation on my ear, as if the sound is real, from sound pressure. The sensation of pressure is always there, and has the effect of bringing all sounds really close. I guess it's best desribed as dynamic compression in music, where instruments and vocals all sound closer together with less air or space around them. With good dynamic range, it's easier to distinguish instruments, pick them apart in your mind and focus on each of them individually. I can't do that anymore. When someone is talking to me 1 meter away, and someone else 10 meters away is talking to someone else, I hear them both almost equally loud, as if they are both talking directly in my ear. If there's a buzz or humm from a coffee machine, I can't distinguish voices anymore and people need to either yell, or wait for the machine to go quiet, or I need to leave the area.

I had several hearing tests, all use headphones. They measured pressure too but they find nothing wrong. They did an MRI and it shows nothing wrong.

The hearing test however shows severe loss of hearing in my right ear.

Listening to music on speakers is so bad I've stopped doing that entirely. I feel pressure on my ears from the sound, it's like I've got a fishbowl around my head and the speakers are inside of it. I've been listening to music my entire life and I know what good music is supposed to sound like, I miss the spacial, airy, roomy sound stage of good dynamics. It sounds miserable now. It has completely spoiled what I love most, the one and only hobby I have.

Headphones don't sound oke either. The right side needs a boost and I've been playing with the EQ and PEQ but I can't get it right. I can't set a 4000 Hz to + 90 dB as that would just clip. I don't think the scale on the graph translates 1:1 to the gain field in a PEQ filter. I tried experimenting but it just doesn't want to sound right. It probably never will, but maybe with a little help I can get it better than what I get now.

I have attached an audiogram. Apart from the dutch words that I've translated, I assume a knowledgable person can interpret it correctly.

The lines with the '[' sign on right ear (left graph), is measured against the skull behind the ear. The line with the 'o' sign is measured over the ear. For the left ear (right graph), the 'x' is measured over the ear and '>' against the skull behind the ear. I don't know why that is incomplete, and I also don't know why there are triangles on the right ear graph on the line with the 'o'.

I don't know what 'Mask' means in this context.

Can someone knowledgable who can interpret the audiogram help me setup MC EQ or PEQ (or whatever is the best way  to do this) so that I can at least listen to music on my headphones?

Appreciate the help!
Thanks.

[mattkhan]

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know how to read an audiogram but I did find http://firstyears.org/lib/audiogramcheatsheet.pdf which seems to cover your questions (linked from http://www.firstyears.org/lib/howtoread.htm) which tells us that masking refers to the use of masking noise on the other ear to ensure your response is for the ear under test.

You didn't attach anything to your post though btw.

[InflatableMouse]

Thanks for the info and the heads up on the attachment. Just uploaded it.

[JimH]

Sorry to hear about it.  Interesting problem if we could help somehow.

Similar problems have been discussed in the past.  You could try searching.  Matt's father went deaf from his kids yelling all the time.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,81623.msg580308.html#msg580308

[InflatableMouse]

Sorry to hear about it.  Interesting problem if we could help somehow.

Similar problems have been discussed in the past.  You could try searching.  Matt's father went deaf from his kids yelling all the time.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,81623.msg580308.html#msg580308

Thanks Jim. I'll try searching.

I think I went deaf from my parents yelling at me all the time. I never listened. Maybe I should have.

[mwillems]

Mouse- I'm sorry to hear you're having hearing troubles; tinnitus is the absolute worst (I'm a sufferer myself, but not as severe as yours).  Here's a thread where we worked through DSP settings based on an audiogram with two different folks that might be helpful (as I think one of the patterns has some similar features to yours):
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,89047.msg621171.html

I think the goal for correction here should probably be to start by trying to make the right ear sound more like the left ear (i.e. not trying to get things "flat"), and you'll want some headroom for boost.  With that in mind, I'd suggest going into PEQ and reducing the volume level on both sides by 15dB (to give you headroom for DSP), and then reducing the left side by an additional ten (for interchannel balance as your left ear is at least 10dB more sensitive across the board).  I would then use an "adjust the frequncy filter to add some boost to the right side.  I wouldn't center the parametric equalizer boost at 4K because the left ear also has a dip there, I would center an "adjust the frequency" filter at 2K or so, with a Q of 1.5 or 2, starting around +5 to 10dB.  I would paddle around with the Q and keep adding boost to see how that sounds.  If that isn't fruitful, try two such filters one at 1K and one at 2.5K, both with a Q of around 2 and less boost on the 1K than on the 2.5k. 

Once you get things in your right ear sounding similar (or close enough) to what you hear in your left ear, then you can start trying to tackle the big hole at 4K.  One of the paradoxes of human hearing loss is that the threshold of audibility increases (meaning you need a louder sound to hear anything at step one), but counterintuitively the threshold of pain also decreases (meaning that the volume it takes to make you uncomfortable will be quieter than it used to be).  The practical effect is that the listening volume "sweet spot" where things can be heard but aren't uncomfortable typically gets narrower with hearing loss.  So you'll need to fine tune the amount of boost you add ,and you may be able to tolerate much less boost than the audiogram suggests you might need to get to "flat".  In the other thread people found that music sounded much better with much less boost than the audio gram suggested might be necessary, so its probably a good idea to start with less boost and work up.

I hope this helps!

[InflatableMouse]

Thanks mwillems! That was actually quite simple, I was making it way too complex!

I found a helpful tool btw: http://onlinetonegenerator.com/
I enabled jriver wdm so I can play with the PEQ values while generating a tone.

I tried understanding from websites how Q works, but I think I was trying to cover too many frequencies and making it flat. Never got it right and music always ended up way too soft or clipping badly.

Here's what I have now. Q=1.5 for each line.

From top to bottom:
- 1 dB @ 1000 Hz (R)
+6 dB @ 2000 Hz (R)
+8 dB @ 4000 Hz (R)

- 4 dB (L/R)
- 8 dB (L)

I started with the bottom 2 lines. Then did 2 kHz on +4, then +6. it was almost right at that point. did +4, 6 then 8 on 4 kHz and lowered the 1 kHz by 1 dB.

Why the 1000 Hz ended up being -1 I don't understand. That's how the tone generator sounds, it was too loud on the right. I could actually hear that in some songs.

I think I can take 1 or 2 dB off the L/R, peak levels don't get over 80% or so. And has plenty of headroom with the earbuds being quite sensitive.

This is actually the best I've had in a while, so thanks so much! Makes listening with earbuds enjoyable again!

PS. my hearing loss isn't permanent. Sometimes when I yawn, it suddenly opens all up and the right side sounds freaking loud, but it always goes right back to deaf again, often worse than it was (so Im trying not to yawn . I also tried keeping my mouth wide open, doesn't work). Sometimes I scratch an itch on my face, and the same thing happens. It is really weird. What does help sometimes is when I put my fingers in my ears and shake my hands. Another thing that's weird is that with over-ear headphones the above settings aren't even half way near what I need. With in-ear buds, they are correct. Last but not least, I'm going for surgery in januari or februari. Last friday I had what we call a pre-surgery interview with an anesthesiologist in the hospital.

[mwillems]

Glad you're seeing progress! it's encouraging that you've found settings that sound somewhat better already.

I suspect the reason you had to take the 1K down is because a 1.5 Q boost at 2K will still be boosting a fair bit at 1K; your hearing is dramatically more sensitive at 1k than at 2k, so you probably were just pushing it up a bit too high with the 2k boost and it needed to be dialed back a bit.  You could also try raising the Q or the frequency of the 2K frequency adjustment to see if that solves the 1K issue as well.

If where you are now sounds pretty ok to you, my advice is to try and listen with it for a day or two and then try making some more tweaks (but keep notes).  Making a lot of tweaks at once makes it hard to keep track of what actually sounds good. 

I don't normally advocate tuning DSP curves by ear, but when the thing you're tuning *is* your ears, they're clearly the most reliable witness   

[InflatableMouse]

I suspect the reason you had to take the 1K down is because a 1.5 Q boost at 2K will still be boosting a fair bit at 1K; your hearing is dramatically more sensitive at 1k than at 2k, so you probably were just pushing it up a bit too high with the 2k boost and it needed to be dialed back a bit.  You could also try raising the Q or the frequency of the 2K frequency adjustment to see if that solves the 1K issue as well.

If where you are now sounds pretty ok to you, my advice is to try and listen with it for a day or two and then try making some more tweaks (but keep notes).  Making a lot of tweaks at once makes it hard to keep track of what actually sounds good. 

I don't normally advocate tuning DSP curves by ear, but when the thing you're tuning *is* your ears, they're clearly the most reliable witness   

Is there a website or a tool where I can visually see the curve when I change Q? I've searching for that but I only find explanations and formulas that fry my brain.

Thanks!

[mattkhan]

Rephase or roomeqwizard allow you to stack up some filters and see the result

[InflatableMouse]

Rephase or roomeqwizard allow you to stack up some filters and see the result

Thanks.

REW is waaay too complex for my brain, it starts to hurt just by looking at it. I just want to visualize the curve in a graph, it doesn't actually have to do anything. Basically I just want to see an approximation of the curve so I can compare to my audiogram, thats it. When I open REW I don't even know where to look let alone start, even after reading help or guides. I don't want to bother with that, sorry.

Rephase looks just as complex, but Ill give it a swirl  when I'm home.

[mattkhan]

In rew, just open the eq window and start adding filters. You can ignore the rest of the app.

Alternatively define the filters in jriver, play full bandwidth pink noise and look at the spectrum analyser. This should give a tough idea of what is going on. This will be a bit clumsy but should work.

If you just want to see one filter at a time then http://www.earlevel.com/main/2013/10/13/biquad-calculator-v2/ should do the job

[InflatableMouse]

The latest audiogram 6 weeks after surgery.

Thanks to the help here I was able to at least listen to music with headphones, I can now finally sit down and spin some albums again. It's not perfect but the difference is huge.

[RoderickGI]

I had a significant hearing change in 2016 after three colds over a few months. I suddenly had a low-frequency hum in my right ear, and felt pressure as you describe.

Turns out that unlike usual high-frequency hearing loss, I lost low frequencies in my right ear. My left ear has normal high-frequency loss for my age. My ears look perfect inside apparently, and an MRI showed "a very healthy brain for your age", to quote the audiologist. So my brain has been compensating and I have lots of high-frequency tinnitus as well. Not as loud as a circular saw though, thank goodness.

So I'm wondering, what sort of operation improved your hearing that much, if they couldn't find anything previously? Because you have picked up something like a 35dB improvement.

[InflatableMouse]

The operation was described as 'we go in and see what we find and fix it if we can'.

There are three bones behind the eardrum. They are glued together. Infections and other things can "erode" that "glue". That is what had happened to me, this doesn't always show up on a scan. The surgeon was able to glue those bones back together.

Depending on how big your dip is and how it affects your daily life, talk to your doc again and bring him my example.

[RoderickGI]

Thanks for the info Mouse.

My audiologist thought the inner ear all looked good on the MRI, but maybe armed with your story I can make some progress. Mine isn't so bad that it affects my lifestyle yet, except in noisy environments.

I'm familiar with those sorts of ear operations, having nursed someone through recovery in 2016. I'm not surprised they took the approach of  'we go in and see what we find and fix it if we can'. Surgeons are a strange breed, and don't actually tell you much. Or at least seem to forget to tell you the important stuff.

I'm glad you have had an improvement.

[InflatableMouse]

Good luck! I hope you can find an improvement one way or another. Hearing impairment really sucks.

[mwillems]

The latest audiogram 6 weeks after surgery.

Thanks to the help here I was able to at least listen to music with headphones, I can now finally sit down and spin some albums again. It's not perfect but the difference is huge.

That's huge improvement!  I'm very glad to hear things are a bit better.

[JimH]

I think we all are.  Glad to see InflateableMouse back.

[InflatableMouse]

Thanks for the kind words!