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[tbng]

I just had all my SACDs converted to .DSF files and also have downloaded multi-channel .WAV recordings.  I playback on JRiver using multiple zones (a solution albeit not a good one as hang ups frequently occur, and you can't create a playlist with mixed zones and playback each track with the correct output).  That aside, I have just discovered a new problem.  All of the multi-track files I have playback at a sampling rate of 48 kHz, not 96 kHz, that according to my Meridian processor.  On JRiver, I force the output encoding to Dolby Digital, select 5.1 for the channels, but the Sample Rates grey out when selecting Dolby Digital.  I am at this moment playing a recording in which JRiver recognizes the source as "96 kHz 24 bit 6 ch", but the internal setting is "48 kHz 64 bit 6 ch."  Conversely, all two channel tracks play exactly as expected, i.e., up to a sampling rate of 192 kHz.

What am i missing?  Please, JRiver, simplify the mixing of multi-channel and two-channel playback.  This is very frustrating.

[JimH]

I just had all my SACDs converted to .DSF files and also have downloaded multi-channel .WAV recordings.  I playback on JRiver using multiple zones (a solution albeit not a good one as hang ups frequently occur, and you can't create a playlist with mixed zones and playback each track with the correct output).  That aside, I have just discovered a new problem.  All of the multi-track files I have playback at a sampling rate of 48 kHz, not 96 kHz, that according to my Meridian processor.  On JRiver, I force the output encoding to Dolby Digital, select 5.1 for the channels, but the Sample Rates grey out when selecting Dolby Digital.  I am at this moment playing a recording in which JRiver recognizes the source as "96 kHz 24 bit 6 ch", but the internal setting is "48 kHz 64 bit 6 ch."  Conversely, all two channel tracks play exactly as expected, i.e., up to a sampling rate of 192 kHz.

What am i missing?  Please, JRiver, simplify the mixing of multi-channel and two-channel playback.  This is very frustrating.

You may be trying to run before you walk.  Start simply, then work your way up.

[tbng]

What does that mean?

[ferday]

for starters, dolby only supports 48KHz unless it's trueHD

[tbng]

For finishers, please tell me, using uncryptic remarks, how to resolve the problem.

[Hendrik]

Don't use dolby digital encoding if you want anything but 48kHz. The DD codec is  quite limited in that regard, it only supports 44.1 and 48.

Just set MC to output the source number of channel, then stereo and 5.1 will both play as expected.

[blgentry]

Player > DSP Studio > Output Format >
Output Encoding > None

Channels > (set this to the number of speakers you actually have in your system)
Channels > Mixing > JRSS

Sample Rate > (set each of these for no change, except for high sample rates that your processor/DAC does not support.  For those, set it to down sample to rates that your processor does support)

That should get you started.

Your comment about multiple zones causing crashes is unusual.  I've never heard that before.  Perhaps these settings will fix that problem.

Good luck.

Brian.

[dtc]

Multi-channel wav files are not Dolby Digital format. Dolby Digital is a specific lossy compressed format used primarily for movies and has a different format than wav files.  Do not use the Dolby Digital setting. It looks like MC is converting your 96 KHz wav file  to 48 KHz because it thinks it is suppose to be Dolby Digital.  File extensions for Dolby files are .ac3 (48 KHz compressed Dolby Digital) and .thd (for 96 KHz True HD).

I am not a zone guy or a multi-channel guy, but I think that you are correct that you cannot put multiple zones in a playlist.

[dtc]

Player > DSP Studio > Output Format >
Output Encoding > None

Channels > (set this to the number of speakers you actually have in your system)
Channels > Mixing > JRSS

Sample Rate > (set each of these for no change, except for high sample rates that your processor/DAC does not support.  For those, set it to down sample to rates that your processor does support)

That should get you started.

Your comment about multiple zones causing crashes is unusual.  I've never heard that before.  Perhaps these settings will fix that problem.

Good luck.

Brian.

Brian - I do not play multi-channel so do not know the details. If you have just stereo and 5.1 files, should you just set Source Number of Channels  if you want 5.1 as 5.1 and stereo as 2.0? Or set it to 5.1 with no mixing? Any reason to invoke the JRSS mixing?

[mojave]

I playback on JRiver using multiple zones (a solution albeit not a good one as hang ups frequently occur, and you can't create a playlist with mixed zones and playback each track with the correct output).

Typically when using multiple zones, you need to set the Output Format for each zone to the same sample rate. Your hardware driver will lock up if sent multiple sample rates and will cause JRiver to hang.

[thecrow]

All of the multi-track files I have playback at a sampling rate of 48 kHz, not 96 kHz, that according to my Meridian processor.

How do you have your PC connected to your Meridian processor?
If it is by SPDIF either coax or optical, then I am afraid you cannot send multi-channel audio down this connection other than encoding to a format like Dolby which as everyone has said is limited to 48kHz and also lossly compressed.
If it is connected via HDMI or USB then do not encode to DD but send as source number of channels without changing the sample rate as others have described.

[blgentry]

Brian - I do not play multi-channel so do not know the details. If you have just stereo and 5.1 files, should you just set Source Number of Channels  if you want 5.1 as 5.1 and stereo as 2.0? Or set it to 5.1 with no mixing? Any reason to invoke the JRSS mixing?

To be honest, I don't currently use MC with a multi-channel setup.  So my information is largely from having read the wiki and quite a few forum threads about the subject.

I believe what you said is true:  If you are ONLY sending 5.1 channel files and 2.0 channel files to your AVR/DAC/Pre-Pro then using "Source number of channels" should magically work and not require two zones.

I believe the reason that setting "number of channels" to a specific value is generally recommended is to deal with oddball cases like 4.1 or 4.0 channel material.  Plus, if you play videos that are 7.1 or 6.1 etc, then you would also want to set a specific number of channels.

Brian.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I do use JR extensively for Mch, but also for stereo.  This issue has come up frequently, but I do not have all the answers for all system setups.  I have commented on this more than a few times here.

Source Number of Channels may work in this case, but I have had problems with it so I do not use it.  So, that should be tried with the Meridian to verify it works properly.  Specifically, does the .1 input channel map properly to the .1 output channel so that the Meridian can use it in its bass management.  If it works properly, then the OP's problems are all solved with one zone for stereo and 5.0 or 5.1 Mch.  But, maybe not, so we would be back to zones and to avoiding Source Number of Channels in the DSP Studio output setting.

The potential problem centers around 5.0 vs 5.1 files.  The Channels metadata = 5 for 5.0.  But, Channels = 6 for 5.1, because Channels is an integer field.  Testing will verify that the 6th channel goes out to the Meridian as the .1 = LFE channel or whether JRiver has "moved" it to a different output channel that the Meridian "sees" as a surround channel.  Not sure. 

In any case, here is what I do without any issues.  My system feeds a Mch Exasound DAC via USB.  (The Dirac Live VST plugin is embedded in JR.) I use bass management in JR Room Correction.  I have two zones, one with fixed 5.1 output, another with 7.1. I use Zoneswitch to automatically switch based on the Channels tag in the input file >6.  Both zones use 2.1 output automatically for stereo source material via the checkbox in DSP Studio.  So, stereo plays as stereo, not "expanded" to Mch.

The only 7.1 material I have is on a few Blu-Ray videos, so for music, only the 5.1 zone is normally used, and I have no problems with playlists, as video watching is rare and not comingled with my music listening.  Stereo plays as 2.1 stereo and Mch up to 5.1 plays properly.  The 7.1 zone is switched in automatically as necessary on the occasional 7.1 video or rare 7.1 BD-A.

As a footnote, any 3.0 or 4.0 Mch recordings are created as 5 channel with the appropriate channels null.  This is automatically done by SACD rip and extract tools.  So, they play fine, too, in my 5.1 zone without artificially created channels, which is what I want.

Of course, hi rez plays as hi rez under the control of the output sampling rate conversions in DSP Studio.

Sorry to be so complicated.  But, I am perfectly happy with my system setup. 

[tbng]

Don't use Dolby digital encoding if you want anything but 48kHz. The DD codec is  quite limited in that regard, it only supports 44.1 and 48.

Just set MC to output the source number of channel, then stereo and 5.1 will both play as expected.

No, that will not work.  The error message "Playback could not be started using the format 96 kHz 64 bit 6 ch" appears and always has when I use the settings you suggest.  Source number of channels has never worked to play multi-channel.  The only way I have gotten multi-channel is by forcing it to Dolby Digital, but I forgot about the 48 kHz sampling limit.

Some one asked how I connect to the Meridian.  That would be by HDMI.

I play no videos through JRiver, just 2.0, 5.0, and 5.1 audio from .WAV and .DSF files.

I appreciate all of your suggestions, but as far as I can see, it is impossible to play a multi-channel recording via JRiver at a sampling frequency higher than 48 kHz.  Nothing I have read here or in other discussion on this topic has led me to believe otherwise.  I can't believe this is not possible, but I don't know what else to conclude.

Are any of the respondents here JRiver techs?  If so, I ask them: How can you make this happen and in a simple manner without the need of additional hardware?  Or must I seek another solution?

[blgentry]

Did you even read my post above?  You should not be using Dolby Digital output encoding.  It is using lossy compression to send your files, which is probably not what you want, since you are concerned about high resolution audio.

Brian.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Nope, I play dsfs converted to 176k PCM in Mch all the time, the sample rate being limited only by my Dirac EQ.  Without EQ, I can also play 88,96, 192, 352 and 384k PCM or DSD64,128 and 256 all in Mch.  Others I know can do the same thing.  We know because the receiving device confirms it.

But, it would seem that Source Number of Channels is perhaps, once again, the culprit, at least with 5.1 channel (Channels = 6, as I described).  What happens if you play a 5.0 file, with Channels = 5?  Most SACDs in my experience are 5.0.  Check the Channels tag value.

I just do not know offhand how to solve this pesky problem in your case with bass management in the Meridian.  A simple answer seems elusive.  But, for me, there is no problem when using bass management in JR and output set to 5.1 or 7.1 channels.

[Hendrik]

No, that will not work.  The error message "Playback could not be started using the format 96 kHz 64 bit 6 ch" appears and always has when I use the settings you suggest.  Source number of channels has never worked to play multi-channel.  The only way I have gotten multi-channel is by forcing it to Dolby Digital, but I forgot about the 48 kHz sampling limit.

If that is the case, then it appears your hardware does not actually accept 6 channel uncompressed PCM, at least at 96kHz. Dolby Digital is inherently incapable of carrying more than 48kHz (and its a lossy compression).

[tbng]

My hardware is not the culprit.  JRiver is not outputting the correct data stream to get what I want, which is a mirror of the source, i.e., straight-forward two-channel output or 5.0 or 5.1 and, on occasion, 3.0 at the desired sampling rates.

[tbng]

Nope, I play dsfs converted to 176k PCM in Mch all the time, the sample rate being limited only by my Dirac EQ.  Without EQ, I can also play 88,96, 192, 352 and 384k PCM or DSD64,128 and 256 all in Mch.  Others I know can do the same thing.  We know because the receiving device confirms it.

But, it would seem that Source Number of Channels is perhaps, once again, the culprit, at least with 5.1 channel (Channels = 6, as I described).  What happens if you play a 5.0 file, with Channels = 5?  Most SACDs in my experience are 5.0.  Check the Channels tag value.

I just do not know offhand how to solve this pesky problem in your case with bass management in the Meridian.  A simple answer seems elusive.  But, for me, there is no problem when using bass management in JR and output set to 5.1 or 7.1 channels.

I make the settings you recommend (Audio device:  HD621 (Intel Display Audio) [WASPI]; DSP/output format: 5.1 channels, no output encoding, JRSS mixing on; subwoofer at 20Hz low pass).  The result upon pressing PLAY is the error message "playback could not be started using the format 96kHz 64bit 6ch" and it recommends switching to two channel.  I am connecting from the music server via HDMI to the Meridian HD621 which accepts 5.1/5.0./3.0 signals from SACD players without issue, so I do not know how the HD621 would be the problem.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Suggestions, if you have not already done so.

Here is DSP Studio:

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSP

Set as follows:

Output Encoding - None.

Sample Rate - all sampling rates set to No Change, except set ALL sampling rates above 96k to 96k or less.  (The Meridian is limited to 96k.) Note that DSD from SACD dsfs is converted to 352k PCM by JR, so that sampling rate must be downconverted to 96k or less.  This might be your main problem right now causing the error message.  These settings can be fine tuned later.

Channels - try Source Number of Channels.  If .1 LFE does not come through correctly to the Meridian for 5.1 inputs, try 5.1 in this field. 

If that does not work correctly, I have some other thoughts for later.

Question - Does the Meridian handle DSD via HDMI?  If so, we could bitstream the DSD input to the output, which might solve part of the problem.

[dtc]

Does the HD621 work with 96 KHz 6 channel from the SACD player? It might support 6 channel SACD but not 6 channel PCM at 96 KHz. Any way to confirm 6 channel 96 KHz works correctly from the SACD player?

6 channel 96 KHz PCM does work with Media Center, so the idea is to find figure out the problem. It might be a issue with the PC/HDMI interface for PCM or it might be the HD621 does not support 6 channel 96 KHz PCM.

Note that HDMI does not support native DSF format on a PC. The DSF will have to be converted to PCM to use the HDMI. This is a PC driver issue, not a MC issue.

[tbng]

Suggestions, if you have not already done so.

Here is DSP Studio:

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSP

Set as follows:

Output Encoding - None.

Sample Rate - all sampling rates set to No Change, except set ALL sampling rates above 96k to 96k or less.  (The Meridian is limited to 96k.) Note that DSD from SACD dsfs is converted to 352k PCM by JR, so that sampling rate must be downconverted to 96k or less.  This might be your main problem right now causing the error message.  These settings can be fine tuned later.

Channels - try Source Number of Channels.  If .1 LFE does not come through correctly to the Meridian for 5.1 inputs, try 5.1 in this field. 

If that does not work correctly, I have some other thoughts for later.

Question - Does the Meridian handle DSD via HDMI?  If so, we could bitstream the DSD input to the output, which might solve part of the problem.

To answer your last question first, no, Meridian does not allow DSD input.  That would be a solution, I believe, but not one that is available.

I tried the settings you suggested and got the error message "playback could not be started on the output WASPI using the format 44.1 kHz 6ch."  The "44.1" was a surprise and a new wrinkle.  This same message appeared whether JRSS mixing was on or off.  Using source number of channels instead of 5.1 changed the message to "44.1 kHz 2ch," which is another surprise because the track I tried to play is a .DSF six-channel file, says JRiver.

[dtc]

To play DSF you should set Output Format to convert >768 to 352, and 705 to 96 and 352 to 96. That will convert 1x DSD and 2x DSD to 96 KHz PCM.

[tbng]

And that is exactly how I have them set.  No sampling rate is set higher than 96k.

[dtc]

OK, just wanted to check. The DSD to PCM settings can be confusing.

Can you confirm that you can play 6 channel PCM at 96 KHz from your SACD player?

[JimH]

Can you confirm that you can play 6 channel PCM at 96 KHz from your SACD player?

and over the same connection.

[dtc]

and over the same connection.

I believe the Meridian only uses HDMI - no usb.

[tbng]

and over the same connection.

Absolutely.  My OPPOs output a PCM 5.1 signal up to 96 kHz, and the Meridian system handles it flawlessly.  Been doing it for years.

P.S.  The Meridian can also handle a USB input up to 192 kHz/24 bit but only in stereo.

[dtc]

So the HD621 certainly handles this type of PCM signal. That clearly points to the PC as the culprit.

Can you send 96 KHz test signals to all channels from the Windows device setup or from some other program?

Sorry for the 20 questions, but this is a somewhat complicated problem and there are lots of variables. PC HDMI setups are not always straightforward.

[tbng]

Only if JRiver can generate 96 kHz test signals.  I don't mind the questions because they are on point.

[Matt]

Only if JRiver can generate 96 kHz test signals.  I don't mind the questions because they are on point.

You can use Tools > Advanced Tools > Audio Calibration... to generate test signals at any sample rate.

[JimH]

Only if JRiver can generate 96 kHz test signals.  I don't mind the questions because they are on point.

I think that dtc meant the Windows setup for sounds.  It's shown in screenshots at the top of this audio topic on our wiki:

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup

[dtc]

In Windows Control Panel for Sound, choose the HDMI device. It should show you the allowed sample rates and decoders. Then the Configure option will let you set a 5.1 setup and it will test each speaker, although probably at 48 KHz. Properties - Advanced will let you send a test signal at 24 bit - 96 KHz to each speaker. I just did the test  on a Windows 8.1 system to my 7.1 system audio system and got test sound from each speaker at 96 KHz.

The idea is to test the HDMI path independent of MC.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I agree with the track being taken on carefully checking the HDMI linkage. 

My bad, dtc, on DSD bitstreaming via HDMI.  I keep forgetting that you cannot do it from a PC, only from a player, like an Oppo.

[dtc]

I just tried a 5.1 wav file on my 7.1 system. When using WASAPI, MC gave an error that the format was not supported. When I changed to Direct Sound, the file played. I tried the same with the MC calibration test tones and they worked for Direct Sound but not for WASAPI. This may depend on the specific HDMI graphics card, but in my case I would have to use Direct Sound rather than WASAPI. Something to check. This was done with Output Format off - that is no MC mixing or re-sampling.  Will test using Output Formatting next.

EDIT : Just turned on Output Format and tried various mix and re-sampling options with the same results as above. In may case the issue is that WASAPI does not work with the HDMI in my PC.

[mojave]

There have been a lot of firmware updates for the Meridian HD621. Are you using the latest firmware?

I've used JRiver with a lot of audio processors/receivers/AVR's over the years. 16 bit, 48 kHz, with Disable event style should work for multi-channel audio over HDMI for just about all devices. Once that works, you can change the sample rate or uncheck "Disable event style" to see if things still work.

Suggestion:
DSP Studio> Output Format set Channels to 5.1
DSP Studio> Output Format set Sample Rate to 48 kHz for all inputs
Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device make sure you have selected the WASAPI driver for the Meridian
Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings check "Disable event style"
Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings set the Bitdepth to "16-bit integer".

[tbng]

Eureka!  I may have found the key, although I do not understand why it works.  In output/audio device/device settings I checked disable event style and voila!  Surround sound in 96 kHz!  Click it off, and the error message displays upon the next playing.  I'll fiddle with some more before I declare VS (Victory over Surround) Day.  I also want to make certain I get two channel properly, which probably will still require selecting another zone.

[dtc]

Awesome.   

WASAPI does not work with Event Style disabled on my system. Only Direct Sound works.  The settings clearly depend on the HDMI implementation.

Event style is a technique used by usb devices that allow the device to control the timing of the data transfer rather than the PC. Not surprised that it should be turned off for HDMI.

[tbng]

So far, so good.  I continue to get multi-channel output at 88 kHz and up.  I do, however, still have to set up a zone I call HDMI Multi-Channel with those parameters and a second zone with parameters (much simpler) for two-channel playback, then switch to the desired zone prior to initiating playback.  It's hardly an ideal method - it isn't the innate concept of the zone to begin with, you can't create playlists containing multiple zones, and hangups are possible - but the method does work - mostly.