Topic: Problem with JRiver 23 and ASIO (Read 11580 times)

PaoloF · « **on:** October 05, 2017, 08:32:04 am »

Hello
I installed MC23 64 bit, on a PC with Windows 10 (version 1703), but it does not work with pcm files, the error message says:
"Playback could not be started on the output 'ASIO' using the format '44 .1 kHz 2ch '."

On the same PC, the MC22, with the same ASIO driver, works regularly.

Even the MC23 32bit has the same problem.

The DAC is the North Star Supremo, with own drivers for AMANERO interface.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2017, 09:16:27 am »

Odd that MC23 32-bit doesn't work, but for the 64-bit and ASIO it requires 64-bit ASIO drivers so I'd ask the hardware vendor if there's any available.

PaoloF · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2017, 11:38:24 am »

Obviously, my pc is 64-bit. and I use the 64-bit ASIO driver provided by North Star.
It is impossible to install the 32-bit driver on 64-bit machines.
Also with MC22 I use the 64-bit ASIO driver.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2017, 03:44:29 pm »

32 bit code runs on 64 bit machines. It probably won't work with a 64 bit driver.

PaoloF · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2017, 08:52:13 am »

Quote from: JimH on October 06, 2017, 03:44:29 pm

32 bit code runs on 64 bit machines. It probably won't work with a 64 bit driver.

My problem is that : on the same pc (with windows 10 1703, 64-bit),
- MC22 (32-bit) work well with driver ASIO 64-bit;
- MC23 (64-bit) don't play pcm files with driver ASIO 64-bit.

I have tryed on another pc (also with windows10 1703, 64-bit), but neither MC22, nor MC23, work with driver ASIO 64-bit and files pcm.

Why ?
What is the difference between the case that work well and the others?

PaoloF · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2017, 04:15:41 am »

Hello,
can you tell me where to investigate to understand what makes the difference between the MC22 that works well on a PC and the MC22 that does not play pcm files on the other PC (both PCs with Windows 10 1703)?
Or between MC22 correctly running and MC23 64-bit that does not play pcm files on the same PC?

Hung · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2017, 03:58:57 am »

Hi,

My oppo UDP 205 is lag and delaying much with MC 23 64 bit when I play flac, wave files,..with output coding 2xDSD (or more) with ASIO. In MC, Asio is consider as native mode. It is pity. To solve to problem, I have to change to Kernel stream with DoP to hear the right music. Could you explain about that and having any to fix for MC 23 ?

Tks.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2017, 04:34:58 am »

Because you're setting output encoding to convert everything to 2xDSD or more, the system has to convert everything to the output format you specified. This is a resource intensive task and can/will cause lags and delays, especially if the system you're running Media Center on isn't very powerful. Converting via output format to DSD is one of the most resource intensive tasks in Media Center.

Hung · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2017, 05:29:31 am »

Hi,

Thank for response. Even in case of single DSD output coding, it still get lag, delaying (better than 2xDSD). So that why I have to move to Kernel with DoP. This is not native mode that Oppo 205 & MC can work, right ?

Rgds

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2017, 05:40:59 am »

Again, using Output Encoding to convert everything to DSD on-the-fly is one of the most resource intensive tasks in Media Center. Try running the benchmark (Help > Benchmark...) and posting the score here.

Hung · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2017, 07:10:10 am »

Hi,

Please check for benchmark:

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 4,544 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 3,097 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 2,289 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 1,575 seconds
Score: 1651

Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0,230 seconds
Flood filling... 0,242 seconds
Direct copying... 0,778 seconds
Small renders... 1,040 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 1,435 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0,912 seconds
Score: 4745

Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0,152 seconds
Populate database... 0,855 seconds
Save database... 0,169 seconds
Reload database... 0,092 seconds
Search database... 1,104 seconds
Sort database... 0,679 seconds
Group database... 0,637 seconds
Score: 5830

JRMark (version 23.0.72 x64): 4076

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2017, 10:21:01 am »

A good machine, not a great one. Maybe not enough for heavy DSD conversion.

Hung · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2017, 10:39:23 am »

It is NUC 7i5BNH, 8G Ram, 128 SSD. So can you let me know what is enough configuration for output coding with lowest level (1xDSD, Asio native) on MC 64x ?

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2017, 10:51:07 am »

You probably know more than we do at this point. Just keep testing to see what works. When you do find out, please post here again.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2017, 11:06:50 am »

Unless I'm mistaken, that NUC only has a Core i5-7260U which is a dual core, four thread CPU. If so, that's where your bottleneck is when forcing the DSD output formatting. It's simply not powerful enough to handle on-the-fly conversion to 8xDSD, for example. It *might* be able to do 1xDSD, but don't be surprised if it can't handle even that.

Hung · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2017, 11:16:37 am »

If I play 4xDSD in DoP format with Kernel, it is OK and runs smoothly. Could you check it with 1xDSD (or more) in Asio format if possible ?

PaoloF · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2017, 01:55:17 pm »

I have tried uninstalling the MC23 64-bit and reinstalling it (the new version 23.0.77), hoping to resolve issue with the new installation, but it did not change anything:

- running PCM files, MC23 responds
pre] "Something went wrong with playback
Playback could not be started on the output ASIO using the format '44,1 kHz 2ch."
[/pre]
- with DSD files, it works correctly

it seems that MC23 does not see the North Star Design dac, via ASIO driver, when should play PCM files.

It can not be the fault of the ASIO driver, because with the MC22 it works normally.

I have checked Audio Setup again (https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup):
- my operating system recognizes the dac North Star Design, such as 'PCM-DSD USB Audio Interface';
- in both MC22 and MC23, the audio device is set to 'PCM-DSD USB [ASIO]'.

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2017, 01:57:32 pm »

If it works with MC22, but not with MC23 64 bit, the driver you're using is probably a 32 bit driver. You need a 64 bit driver.

PaoloF · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2017, 02:07:36 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 29, 2017, 01:57:32 pm

If it works with MC22, but not with MC23 64 bit, the driver you're using is probably a 32 bit driver. You need a 64 bit driver.

NO, I already wrote that I use 64-bit ASIO driver made by AMANERO for North Star Design: I also have tryed to install 32-bit ASIO driver, but installation program refused to do it since pc is 64-bit.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2017, 02:29:16 pm »

If it's a 64 bit driver, it wouldn't work with the 32 bit version of MC.

PaoloF · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2017, 04:09:10 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 29, 2017, 02:29:16 pm

If it's a 64 bit driver, it wouldn't work with the 32 bit version of MC.

I have also tried with MC23 32-bit, on the same pc and with same driver ASIO 64-bit (I have used that driver since 2014, with MC17, 18, 20, 21 and 22; on pc with windows 7, 8.1, 10 all 64-bit), but the issue is the same:

- if I play a PCM file I receive the message " Playback could not be started on the output ASIO using the format '44,1 kHz 2ch."
- if I play a DSD file I listen the music.

MC22, on the same pc (with windows 10 1703, 64-bit) and the same ASIO driver, play all files.

On another PC, also with windows 10 1703 and the same ASIO driver, both MC22 and MC23 32-bit do not play PCM files.

I do not understand what difference there is
1. between the PC where MC22 works well and the other where MC22 does not play PCM files;
2. between MC22, that work well (on a PC), and MC23 32-bit, that will not work (on the same PC).

PaoloF · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2017, 12:33:02 pm »

Hi,
I apologize for a written mistake yesterday, I found that on my PC (Windows 10 1703 64-bit) you can install both the 64-bit ASIO driver and the 32-bit driver (it's the "North Star Design Driver Package (nsd38464) MEDIA (04/08/2013 1.0.56) "which can only be installed at 64 bits)".
So I have spent some time to repeat an ordered sequence of test :
- on the pc (windows 10 1703 64-bit) where MC22 work correctly, I have verified that there is PCM_DSD_ASIO64 driver installed;

- on the other pc (windows 10 1703 64-bit) where neither MC22, nor MC23 work with PCM Files
1. I have uninstalled ASIO driver, then I have installed PCM_DSD_ASIO32 driver
1.a - MC22, with ASIO driver, don't play PCM files; DSD files (native format) are correctly reproduced;
1.b - MC22, with WASAPI driver, crash (blue screen) when I try to play a file;
1.c - MC23 32-bit with ASIO driver don't play PCM files; DSD files (native format) are correctly reproduced;
1.d - MC23 32-bit, with WASAPI driver, crash (blue screen) when i try to play a file;

2. I have uninstalled PCM_DSD_ASIO32 driver, then I have installed PCM_DSD_ASIO64 driver:
2.a - MC22, with ASIO driver, don't play PCM files; DSD files (native format) are correctly reproduced;
2.b - MC23 64-bit, with ASIO driver, don't play PCM files; DSD files (native format) are correctly reproduced;
2.c - MC23 64-bit, with WASAPI driver, play correctly PCM files and DSD files (DoP format)

Now, I think that all cases have been tested, but the issues remain.

PaoloF · « **Reply #22 on:** November 08, 2017, 03:29:01 am »

MC23's try period is terminated, I can not go on with analisis of the problem, but I can not buy M23 64-bit since it don't work.
I expect yousr solutions.

Thanks.

JazzHDaudio · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2018, 07:20:07 pm »

Hi, just want to say that I have the same situation here, ie, since 3-4 months I get the following message "something went wrong with the playback".
That happenns in the following situations:
- On a playlist, suddenly it will freeze and there is only one way to go to and it is to close the program.
- When I play a complete album, it will suddenly stop playing and freeze in the middle of a track.

My setup is as follow:
- JRiver 64 bit installed (re installed again today);
- Music is on a Raid unit (Areca 5026) in a Raid 10, connected with Thunderbolt 1;
- Windows 10 latest build 1707;

As I said, only since 3-4 months I have that situation, at the end of JRiver 22 and now I am with the latest build 23.0.91.
I have been using JRiver since a couple of years without any issue but this one is killing me.
I redid my Library completely today (cleared the one I had and rebuilt a new one), still the issue is there.

Any ideas or path to explore are welcome, I would like to continue to use JRiver as it suits all my needs, ie convolution with 4 ways crossover that works perfectly.
Thanks in advance,
Pierre

JimH · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2018, 07:35:07 pm »

What are you playing to? A DAC?

You can set MC to play everything to the same bitrate/samplerate in DSP Studio > Output settings.

JazzHDaudio · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2018, 03:59:30 pm »

Hi,
Just want to give a feedback in case it could help others with the same situation I was having since 3-4 months.

What was interrupting JRiver 23.0.91 was.......: Windows Modules Installer Worker ( TiWorker.exe) in Windows 10 b1707.
When it kicks to install new updates, it reaches 100% in the CPU (I have a I7-6850K and it goes to the roof).

No wonder JRiver freezes.

Here is a link that adresses the issue of high CPU usage:

https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/windows-modules-installer-worker-high-cpu-on-windows-10-solved/

I have a dedicated PC for my music so starting from now I will do the following:
- Keep my RJ45 cable unplugged from the PC;
- Perform Windows Update or others in a regular bases, ie, once a week;
- I won't play music when I do that and will only install the updates by forcing the installation;
- Once this is done, I will remove again the RJ45 cable.

I am doing that because I think that Windows 10 has 2 type of Updates:
a) The major updates that will be downloaded and will be installed (I think you cannot prevent that type of Update);
b) The less important updates that you can prevent from downloading and installing;

Correct me if I am wrong in the above statements as I am not an expert in Windows system.

Since I did that, no more issues as I expressed in my previous post.

Music is playing without interruption!

Cheers,

JazzHDaudio · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2018, 01:31:43 pm »

JimH,
I forgot to give you an answer: I play through an Exasound e38 using the 8 channels for digital xovers using Acourate filters, for a 4 way xover.
Did some test and everything is back to normal now when no other process (intensive one) play in the backgroung.
The maximum burden I have on the CPU (I7-6850K @3.6GHz - 6 Cores - 12 Logical ones) is around 10%. To reach that CPU load I have to convert a quad DSD (256) to 384KHz than apply 8 FIR in Convolution for the xover. But when Windows kicks with an update installation, it reaches 100% load on the CPU.
Still very happy with JRiver and will continue to support it.

Cheers,

balky · « **Reply #27 on:** March 23, 2018, 08:24:28 am »

I've had this same problem with JRiver 22 on windows and have been stuck with using the Linux version ever since.

JRiver doesn't seem to make use of SSE optimization at all for ASIO audio.

I'm a 10+ years user of JRiver and still use for audio only till today.

balky · « **Reply #28 on:** March 26, 2018, 06:37:10 am »

Looks like my post has been modified...

But nevertheless, I would like a clear yes / no answer to my (indirect) question...

Is JRiver ASIO SSE optimized?

Genkifd · « **Reply #29 on:** August 26, 2019, 03:21:35 am »

i have a similar issue but mine isnt the CPU its the HDD that my music is on. there is something with the latest version of JRiver and latest version of Windows 10 that does not like. Once JRiver is loaded my HDD constantly reads (100%) for days.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Problem with JRiver 23 and ASIO (Read 11580 times)