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[DJLegba]

I'd love to see JRiver hire more coders and throw some resources at JRemote. It's an essential piece of the ecosystem that hasn't seen attention for a long time. In particular, the Android version displays most dates incorrectly on the metadata screen, and lacks the ability to display "extras" like PDF liner notes. The iOS version does both.

[tij]

Maybe revise your business model for JRemote to same structure as JRiver?

Make JRemote free on iOS and Android ... but make people buy "plugin" in MC for use with particular version of JRemote (plugin 21 works with all JRemote 21.xx and lower ... but to use JRemote23 need plugin 23) ... then there is iOS and Android plugin ... and Master plugin

[tij]

Don't forget free 30 day trial period too

[AndrewFG]

Maybe revise your business model for JRemote to same structure as JRiver?

That's the real issue, isn't it? JRiver can only sell JRemote once in the lifetime to any customer. Whereas they can sell an MC new version to us every year. So obviously they have no financial incentives to add new features to JRemote since they will never earn any additional money from it.

Personally I would be more than happy to pay more for JRemote, and on an annual basis too.

The idea of 1) having JRemote as a standard application sold via the respective app stores on a one time basis, plus 2) a "feature set key" sold via JRiver's web shop makes a lot of sense. The standard application would ask the MC server for its feature set key, and depending on the key, it would offer more or less functionality. The feature set key could be sold at various price points based on the scope of features enabled, and annual version upgrades of the feature set key could be sold too.

[okey]

JRiver is a fantastic bit of kit, better than any other media player out there, the jremote on ios is the best gui i have seen as well, the only thing missing is when listening to songs, the song's don't cross fade into each other, this would make jremote flawless, i would suggest people pay for jremote as you will not be disappointed, would just like the cross-fade added

[greynolds]

JRiver is a fantastic bit of kit, better than any other media player out there, the jremote on ios is the best gui i have seen as well, the only thing missing is when listening to songs, the song's don't cross fade into each other, this would make jremote flawless, i would suggest people pay for jremote as you will not be disappointed, would just like the cross-fade added

Another thing that's missing is views that are TV "aware".  You can configure a view of guide data, but it doesn't get presented in a useful format and there's no way to do something like setup a recording of something you found in the guide.  Similarly, you can setup a view of upcoming recordings, but the data isn't presented in a useful manner where you can cancel an upcoming recording or change settings for a recording (increase before or after padding and so on).

I'd be fine with some sort of annual subscription model for JRemote if it translated to it getting more attention.  It's an excellent product, but it does feel like it has been getting ignored for a while now.

[tij]

I do not like subscription models ... once subscription run out and you are short on cash ... it's over

Buying new version is better imo ... short on cash then means being stuck with older version ... but still functional version

[DougHamm]

Alternatively, contract out a revamped version that adds a few innovative features like offline music caching, call it JRemote Premium, and allow us long-time users to buy it again. I would.

[MikeO]

Some subscription models are even worse using a Perpetual license . You pay up , when you run out and do not pay you revert to the version that you bought 12 months ago.

Even though you have paid for the years worth of quarterly updates

Rant over , I am retired and don’t need it these days

Btw it’s called. Resharper

[franswilco]

I agree. JRemote deserves a lot more attention than it is getting. I'd happily accept a subscription model - for the first time ever - if is something else is not possible.

[tij]

Maybe revise your business model for JRemote to same structure as JRiver?

Make JRemote free on iOS and Android ... but make people buy "plugin" in MC for use with particular version of JRemote (plugin 21 works with all JRemote 21.xx and lower ... but to use JRemote23 need plugin 23) ... then there is iOS and Android plugin ... and Master plugin

Thinking this over again ... AppStore really makes it hard to implement this ... if user accidentally/automatically update app through AppStore but did not buy new version through JRiver, there is no easy way to go back to previous version

So its either subscription

Or force users to buy new version through plugin in MC that renders previous versions unusable or limit some features

[thorsten]

Hi,
I still think the best way is coupling the mc version and jremote version. Additional 2 Bucks with mc upgrade can be fair, if jremote then improves in the same manner.

Greets,

Thorsten

[fitbrit]

Hi,
I still think the best way is coupling the mc version and jremote version. Additional 2 Bucks with mc upgrade can be fair, if jremote then improves in the same manner.

Greets,

Thorsten

I agree with this. I would rather pay $2-$5 more per year when I upgrade MC and have that go towards supporting JRemote development. Most people who love MC are impressed by how much you get for the money on first purchase and then the reasonable upgrade fees. I think a small hike in upgrade price would be justified to continue JRemote development.
Then again, being an early adopter of each new version of MC, I pay less than most for the upgrade.

[amsco15]

I agree with all the JRemote comments.  I know a couple people posting to a web site doesn’t make a business model. 

However, I would absolutely pay a relatively large annual fee for JRemote: just show it some love!  JRemote is at the center of my MC experience.  I use it every time I play my stereo, and I play my stereo a lot.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I personally have no gripes with JRemote as is.  I would hate to see it become a victim of feature bloat, much as has happened, unfortunately, to MC itself. Esoteric features might be nice, but they add complexity for everyone else. 

JRemote works fine for me.  If there are bugs, of course, they should be fixed.  But, I know of none.  What cornucopia of added specific features do people want?  And, if they are added, will my nice simple experience with my simple custom views start to get needlessly complex.  I think JRiver is already too tough for most first time users to grasp due to feature overload.  I would hate to see JRemote follow that path.

[JimH]

You can turn off features in Tools > Options > General > Features.

[AndrewFG]

The top missing feature for me is the lacking ability to browse my photo library in full screen with swipe and pinch.

[AndyU]

JRemote is superb, a vital part of my system. I rarely use MC directly to play anything. Some development would be great - some kind of panes view, or a more visual equivalent, and a better search would be what I would ask for. Surely improving JRemote is a better use of programming resources that Engen is/was.

[kalston]

JRemote is working well for me on Android.

However I wouldn't mind an update every now and then and maybe a couple of extra features. For example it would be awesome to have a "transcode only if necessary" option (useful because some of my library is already compressed and very streamable as is). Also when I was using it on my iPhone I remember that I could reboot or shut down my PC remotely - not so with the Android version, the option isn't there. I would be happy to be able to do that again. It was handy for me.

[AndrewFG]

Surely improving JRemote is a better use of programming resources that Engen is/was.

+1

[amsco15]

JRemote features I’d like to see....Would like assets to rotate on my iPhone (not just visible in portrait).   I would also like the ability to remove an item from a playlist. I get the fear of bloatware; but, improvements are possible.

[flac.rules]

JRemote is superb, a vital part of my system. I rarely use MC directly to play anything. Some development would be great - some kind of panes view, or a more visual equivalent, and a better search would be what I would ask for. Surely improving JRemote is a better use of programming resources that Engen is/was.

Engen is some of the most interesting development in MC in several years. That being said, I don't have anything against some updates to jremote.

[CltrAltDel]

The top missing feature for me is the lacking ability to browse my photo library in full screen with swipe and pinch.

Yes, please, finally...

[marko]

The top missing feature for me is the lacking ability to browse my photo library in full screen with swipe and pinch.

Yup, this, and "play with play doctor" when connected from outside the LAN. Give us these and I would pay again.

[TheShoe]

how about make Panel look like jremote?   or allow customization (skinning) of Panel?

i’m of course assuming Panel is an html5/css3 app with some js behind it.   really if i had the artistic talent i could do it myself since i think MC exposes the needed APIs which we could call from javascript.  wish i had more disposable time....  used to code a lot back in the day.  though mostly java and c

objective-c is not a fun language.   porting it to swift would probably be a bear to do.

[JimH]

Panel is meant to be an easy to use, touch friendly interface.  It may never have a feature set close to that of JRemote.

It is an HTML5 javascript app.

[DJLegba]

Although they are sold separately, JRemote is really the "public" face of JRiver Media Center in many homes. The cost to continue JRemote development should be considered part of the cost to continue making Media Center something people want to buy. People who don't purchase MC upgrades will perhaps benefit without paying directly for development, but a really nice app like JRemote will certainly drive new sales of MC.

[glynor]

I'd definitely pay in a recurring manner for new versions of JRemote on iOS in some way. There are many ways you can do this on the Apple AppStore (I can't really speak to what works well on Android).

1. Probably the best method is to release it as a limited free app with a subscription to unlock some set of the feature set. A simple target for this would be playback (the free-only version is truly just a "remote" unless you pay), though you could go for other things. This is the best, IMHO, because it is simple to understand, and on the Apple AppStore, you get 85% for subscription revenue after the first year (so you get more money too). Lots of "pro-quality" apps in the App Store have and are moving to this model.

2. A free app with an external required subscription or unlock on the "MC Side" of the equation (the mobile apps only work with the "Mobile Pack" add-on for MC, and otherwise you must use Panel). Ala Office 365, Adobe's apps, and Plex. This is more confusing for customers because they can't purchase the "fix" to the app from on the device, but... People are used to it for those other apps, and in this case, you have the benefit that you're already selling MC to customers each year. Even better, then you get to keep 100% of the funds (less your existing transaction fees). This will probably hurt adoption overall compared to option #1, but it probably fits with JRiver's overall current business model and "viewpoint". Plus it has the customer benefit of being able to keep old versions working without having to continue the subscription. And, there is competition doing basically the same thing in the same space. So...?

3. Do the same as #1 above, but with yearly in-app purchases to enable playback (and/or other features) with the new major version of desktop MC. This is less good than the previous suggestion because of the revenue thing and it'll be more confusing for customers. But, the upside for the customer is that you can stop the upgrade train if you want and stick with what you've got (like MC on the desktop works now).

4. Release new versions each year, tied to the major version of MC that they work with. I think this is a bad idea, and will make customers grumpy, but it's an option.

If I could have offline playback and improvements to avoid having to use a separate app to stream video to my devices, I'd definitely be in for any of these options. As it is, I'm strongly considering going to Plex. Over the past 18 months or so, a LOT of our media consumption has moved to mobile devices. This is, honestly, my biggest concern about my JRiver-based setup right now. I still use the HTPC, but for basically everything else (which is a lot) I'm using AirVideo HD (which is unsupported and annoying) and a smattering of streaming apps (which I don't really like, but they work).

[mattkhan]

I find the inconsistency between licence models slightly irritating in that MC is buy once, use anywhere at home, upgrade each year whereas jremote is buy once per device account. On that basis, I'd probably vote for option 3. I'd also vote for jriver opting into allowing family library use for jremote for purchases before the cutoff date (july 2016) on android.

I also find the current price for jremote rather high though compared to the price of MC itself given the feature set of jremote relative to gizmo. It doesn't seem good value to me.

[JimH]

I also find the current price for jremote rather high though compared to the price of MC itself given the feature set of jremote relative to gizmo. It doesn't seem good value to me.

Apple gets a chunk.  I think it's 30%.

[mattkhan]

Apple gets a chunk.  I think it's 30%.

that is a hefty chunk. I wonder whether you'd be better off making it free and adding a bit to the price of MC itself instead then?

[tij]

Matt is saying to shift cost from AppStore to MC ... so JRemote becomes free in AppStore/GoogleStore ... but MC price goes up to account for that ... so in a sense JRemote becomes standard package for MC that causes its price to go up

It will suck for people who do not use JRemote though

[rec head]

or more people will use JRemote.

[greynolds]

I have no idea what percentage of MC users use JRemote, but it would probably make sense to keep it as an extra cost optional item.  But either way, making the app free in the app store with the purchase to activate the functionality being done directly through JRiver should shift that 30% slice that Apple currently takes in the right direction.

[RD James]

Looking at the direction JRiver seem to be headed - which seems to be creating your own personal 'cloud' for media streaming, making JRemote free seems like the way forward.
If necessary, perhaps there could be an add-on license for Media Center to support JRemote connections.
I don't agree with raising the price for JRiver as a whole to support it, as not everyone uses or intends to use the app.
I'm not entirely clear on whether Panel is intended to replace JRemote, but if it is, it has a long way to go to catch up.
 
With the app being free, that opens it up to loading the app on family & friend devices so that they can remotely connect to a server.
However user accounts and permissions would have to be integrated first. I'm not opening up full server access to all.
 
There are many different ways that I'd like to see JRemote improved too.
AAC streaming (would FLAC also be possible?), options to only transcode when necessary instead of on/off, the ability to apply DSP server-side (and possibly switch presets via JRemote) and more.

[JimH]

JRemote isn't going to be free.

Panel won't replace JRemote.  Panel is a lightweight solution for network access and control of your media.  Take a look at what drmimosa said about it today.  He nailed the purpose of it.

[Vocalpoint]

JRemote isn't going to be free.

Well - I have a bunch of money to give you for a reasonably up to date version of JRemote.

Take a look at what drmimosa said about it today.  He nailed the purpose of it.

Fair enough. But I cannot see any member of my family trying to open Panel on a browser on a tiny iPhone screen.

This part in the Panel instruction set pretty much sums up how "simple" this is:

Instructions

You can open Panel from a web browser by entering this URL:

http://[IP_Address]:52199  (changing [IP_Address] to your own IP address)  Example: http://192.168.0.13:52199

localhost:52199 will do the same thing when the browser is running on the same machine as MC.

Simple if you are me. But to my wife this would look like like she is being asked to write code before listening to an album etc

It's all about form factor and what works. JRemote on the iPhone is the defacto control center for MC here. Would be nice to see it get a fresh coat of paint once in a while.

VP

[JimH]

I cannot see any member of my family trying to open Panel on a browser on a tiny iPhone screen. It's all about form factor and what works.

What's different about using JRemote on the phone?

You can also use Panel on a tablet or computer.

[RD James]

JRemote isn't going to be free.

People aren't asking for JRemote to be free, they're asking for it to be licensed on the server rather than the app.
Make the app free, but require a server-side license to use it - possibly with a 30-day trial like Media Center.
Then family & friends can use the app, instead of having to use Panel - or more likely just having to pass around a single device for control.

This part in the Panel instruction set pretty much sums up how "simple" this is:

http://wg.jriver.com/your_access_key needs to be updated, and have a way to save account credentials so that it automatically connects.
I need an URL that I can give to people which just connects automatically no matter what network they're on.
 
But again: user accounts and permissions need to be a thing if this is the direction that JRiver is headed.

[Vocalpoint]

What's different about using JRemote on the phone?

I answered that above. Just the basic task of entering the url to get to the server in a browser would kill movie night instantly. JRemote requires nothing. Press a button and go. I mean - I shouldn't have to tell you how easy JRemote is - right?

You can also use Panel on a tablet or computer.

Well - we have iPads and JRemote is even better on those. But I do not have some clunky PC sitting in the corner of my media room.

Again - any member of the family can whip out their iphone (we all own JRemote) - spark up JRemote and have a movie going in 10 secs on the big screen. Doesn't get any easier.

Does anyone really want to deal with this

http://[IP_Address]:52199  (changing [IP_Address] to your own IP address)  Example: http://192.168.0.13:52199

To enjoy their media?

My wife can't even be bothered by saving a bookmark on her phone let alone dealing with that URL above. I feel you guys are making a lot of assumptions when you claim Panel is "easy". More like "easy" ("If you have a tech savvy person living in the home").

I like the idea but 99.9% of people would have no idea how this works.

VP

[Vocalpoint]

http://wg.jriver.com/your_access_key needs to be updated, and have a way to save account credentials so that it automatically connects.I need an URL that I can give to people which just connects automatically no matter what network they're on.

As I suspected - even more tech stuff .

At my house - all I would need is for this to fail but once and I would have chaos on my hands.

JRemote works 100% of the time whether I am there or not - and that's the key for us.

To be clear - I have zero interest in Panel (I am sure you can tell) and I (and probably many others) want to give JRiver Inc. more cash for a "once in while" refresh of JRemote.

Not sure how that can be so difficult.

VP

[dtc]

As I suspected - even more tech stuff .

At my house - all I would need is for this to fail but once and I would have chaos on my hands.

JRemote works 100% of the time whether I am there or not - and that's the key for us.

VP

I just set up a shortcut using the outside IP address. Firefox does that trivially on Android. It remembers my sign-in information. At most, it asks to confirm it.  Or you can set up a bookmark in a browser.  Once set up, the user can connect from anywhere from a desktop icon or bokmark.  Pretty straightforward.

[Vocalpoint]

Pretty straightforward.

Totally - straightforward - if you are me.

But you do realize that most of us have others in our lives that like to enjoy media via MC - sometimes when the primary "tech daddy" is not there.

If we are talking about my wife - it's not straight forward. And it will never be straight forward. And there is nothing I can do to change this fact.

Even the mere suggestion of discussing URL's, bookmarks and IP addresses causes major angularity.

If you have been married 20+ years - you may know what I am talking about

Or you may have a super tech savvy wife (or S/O). If so - you rock.

Me - I thank my lucky stars daily that my wife "gets" JRemote. It's easy, makes sense to her and keeps my tech support to an absolute minimum. That my friend - is like gold.

VP

[tyler69]

This made my day 

[JimH]

The admin (you) just saves a link.  Call it Movies.  Call it whatever you want.

The user (your wife) clicks on the link.  Panel appears.

The user experience of starting Panel is identical to that of starting JRemote.  Only the name has been changed.

I do understand and sympathize with the problem you're describing.  It is exactly the problem we're trying to solve.   Click, click, play.

[dtc]

Totally - straightforward - if you are me.

But you do realize that most of us have others in our lives that like to enjoy media via MC - sometimes when the primary "tech daddy" is not there.

If we are talking about my wife - it's not straight forward. And it will never be straight forward. And there is nothing I can do to change this fact.

Even the mere suggestion of discussing URL's, bookmarks and IP addresses causes major angularity.

If you have been married 20+ years - you may know what I am talking about

Or you may have a super tech savvy wife (or S/O). If so - you rock.

Me - I thank my lucky stars daily that my wife "gets" JRemote. It's easy, makes sense to her and keeps my tech support to an absolute minimum. That my friend - is like gold.

VP

Completely understand.

So, you set Panel up for her once. Then it is done.That is what I do for my wife. She has used Gizmo for years and has no idea what an access code does and never has to worry about it. I guess you probably set up JRemote for her. So, just set up Panel for her.

Panel is simpler than JRemote  for someone who just wants to play albums or playlists. JRemote has things like metadata that Panel does not and it has a better overall user interface than Panel. It is a more sophisticated product. But for the technologically challenged who don't need the metadata, Panel is perhaps preferable. The UI could use some improvement, but, given it also is meant to serve PCs, will probably never be as sophisticated at JRemote, although they could probably do that if they wanted to.  Note I am only talking about Audio - I have no idea about images or video.

[Vocalpoint]

I do understand and sympathize with the problem you're describing.  It is exactly the problem we're trying to solve.   Click, click, play.

Thanks Jim! I know you guys are always working hard.

But the reality is - (from a customer perspective) - you already have a defacto interface (JRemote) that LOTS of people love and it is already Click Click Play.
We simply want to give you more money to give that interface (JRemote) some regular TLC.

I understand your need to stay busy and develop new things - but as a customer - I simply do not see Panel as necessary when I already have JRemote. And have the family trained on it.

VP

[tyler69]

The user experience of starting Panel is identical to that of starting JRemote.  Only the name has been changed.

While I don't agree, what leads you to the statement that the user experience is the same?

[Vocalpoint]

Note I am only talking about Audio - I have no idea about images or video.

Understood. My wife's main interaction with MC is strictly for big screen movie action. It simply has to work when she wants to fire up a movie and I am not there. For audio - she uses Spotify now (on her Phone and PC) and there is no going back.

VP

[dtc]

Understood. My wife's main interaction with MC is strictly for big screen movie action. It simply has to work when she wants to fire up a movie and I am not there. For audio - she uses Spotify now (on her Phone and PC) and there is no going back.

VP

We have automated my wife's movie watching in a different way. She picks out a DVD or Blu Ray - you know, an actual disk -  I press a button to open the drawer on the player, she puts it in,  I close the drawer, and I start and stop the movie as she requests.