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[fermenter]

Apologies if this is documented somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it - most (if not all) discussion of cover art seems to go immediately to audio, and doesn't go on to discuss video. Even "Tools>Options>File Location>Cover Art" does the same thing - gives several audio options, but no video options.

Specifically, I want to get rid of the thumbnail images from my video folders - I find them cluttering and I'd rather they were stored elsewhere.

Is this possible?

[jkolker]

I don't know of any way to change that.  The cover and the .xml file are all stored where the video is stored. 

[~OHM~]

Apologies if this is documented somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it - most (if not all) discussion of cover art seems to go immediately to audio, and doesn't go on to discuss video. Even "Tools>Options>File Location>Cover Art" does the same thing - gives several audio options, but no video options.

Specifically, I want to get rid of the thumbnail images from my video folders - I find them cluttering and I'd rather they were stored elsewhere.

Is this possible?

I can tell you how to make MC stop creating thumbnail images for video if that helps  tools>options then at the bottom in the search box type in video

[fermenter]

Thanks, I still want to have cover art in MC, I'd just prefer the image files weren't cluttering the video folders as they are also browsed by other devices.

No big deal, just seems a little odd that there are such sophisticated options for audio art and none at all for video.

[~OHM~]

Thanks, I still want to have cover art in MC, I'd just prefer the image files weren't cluttering the video folders as they are also browsed by other devices.

No big deal, just seems a little odd that there are such sophisticated options for audio art and none at all for video.

make a request....ya never know....tis the season 

[RoderickGI]

For video files, such as TV Episodes, Movies, and other videos the Cover Art files are always next to the video file, along with the Sidecar file if there is one.

Series and Season Cover Art for TV Series and TV Logos are stored in sub-directories below the Cover Art location set in "Options > File Location > Cover Art". Audio Cover Art has some options shown in the same settings area.

Apparently, this was debated long ago, even before my time (2013) I believe, and that was the decision made. Particularly for Movies, as the file name could be set to anything and there are lots of movies with the same name, it was a matter of making sure that the correct Cover Art was associated with the video file.

Just think how many movie files may just be called "Superman" and how would you, or the software, know which Cover Art to associate with the file? Lots of people put multiple movie files in the one directory, so the names have to be unique. But some people, myself included, have one sub-directory for each movie and all files associated with it. If everyone was forced to name movie files something like "[Name] [Year] [Director].ext" then maybe Cover Art could be handled differently. That is why movie files sourced from alternate sources have such a structured filename, and even then some can be very ambiguous, or wrong.

The current solution allows for complete flexibility in naming the video files. The cost is that the Cover Art files must be next to the video files.

If you come up with an acceptable foolproof scheme for solving the association problem, then a request may be heard. Otherwise, it has been asked for before and is very unlikely to be considered.

BTW, did you search the Wiki.

From https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Cover_Art#How_Images_Are_Stored

"For video, cover art is always stored next to the file using the same filename as the video. For example, "Big Bang S01E11.mkv" will use "Big Bang S01E11.jpg" for cover art."

[~OHM~]

Well then you have a logical explanation. thanks RoderickGI

[JimH]

Thanks, Roderick.  I added a link to  your post in the cover art topic on the wiki.

[fermenter]

make a request....ya never know....tis the season 

Well the list of features I'd like to see developed ahead of this is pretty big, so I might keep my powder dry for now... 

If you come up with an acceptable foolproof scheme for solving the association problem, then a request may be heard. Otherwise, it has been asked for before and is very unlikely to be considered.

Thanks for the thorough response. As for the 'association problem', a couple of things don't add up for me. Firstly, are you saying that my MC database uses no key?! If so I'm surprised. Certainly I'm no programmer, but I always figured that MC would have its own unique identifier for each library item, that way it can associate any number of things regardless of their relative locations. Secondly, are you saying there is no 'art address' field for each record, and that it relies on a relative path and name matching?

If MC uses the file path as its only identifier, and needs a fixed relative path to find an associated image file, then yes I can see the potential problem - but surely if MC has solved the problem for audio why is video any different?! It seems much more likely that I'll have multiple songs with the same title than movies. In fact I don't have ANY movies that share a title, but I probably have 10 versions of 'Comfortably Numb' - the cover art for all of which I can apparently store in a single nominated directory - and MC (presumably) has the smarts to deal with this?

In fact, the wiki article you linked to even states that MC will deliberately store the video art in a different location if it is unable to store it to the same folder as the video - which kind of shoots a hole in the idea that it can't be done, doesn't it?

Even if the problem is as you state it, and MC uses no key, and/or no database field for the address of a file's cover art - surely it wouldn't be impossible to 'encode' the video file's full path into the image name when saving, (thereby giving each image a unique ID)?

Honestly it isn't a biggie for me, but you seem to be suggesting both that music art and video art are fundamentally different, and that MC can't perform even quite basic database associations, both of which I'm struggling with.

[RoderickGI]

Honestly Fermenter you would have to get a developer to respond to most of those questions, or search the forum for the discussion around the original decision. I wasn't part of that. But the decision was made to do it the way it has been done, so that is the information I shared.

Does MC have a key for every item? I'm not sure. TV Channels have a Key. TV Recording Rules have a Key. I'm not sure all records have a key, as they are not visible to a user, but I would also guess that they do. There was a little discussion on that at one time, but I can't find it quickly. In fact, if I connect to my MC Server using a Client, and then select a video file, right-click and select "On Disk (external)", the location can't be opened and the URL shows the file does indeed have a Key. See attached image. But I think that Key is just used for media file location, and not Cover Art association.

Have a look in the Cover Art sub-directory. All Cover Art files are named to match the media file name. Some are structured, some are not. For example, a TV show Season will have a Cover Art file named something like "{TV Show Name} - Season {Season number}", or more specifically in MC terms, "[Name] - Season [Season].ext". So the association is created using the media file name, without the path, and in some cases additional tag values. It is named programmatically, and MC does not use database keys for an association. Cover Art is separated into different directories for [Series], [Season], etc., in part for informational purposes I'm sure, but also so that no duplicates are created.

Yes, there is an "Art Address" for every video file. It is stored in the [Image File] tag. If you really wanted to put all Cover Art under the Cover Art sub-directory, you could move the image files and edit the tag to point to the new location. But you would have to do that after using the "Get Movie & TV Info" function, and any other Cover Art functions, because MC will put any found Cover Art next to the video file and overwrite the tag with the new location.

I've never imported an optical Disc into MC, let alone tried to add Cover Art to it, so while the Wiki says it will be placed in the Cover Art folder, I have no idea how it gets structured or referenced. But the [Image File] tag would tell MC where to find it.

The MC database is not a Relational Database. It does allow fields to be marked as relational to a few select fields, such as [Series]. That is done programmatically, not in the database.


But if you solved the Cover Art file problem that you have, so that the files didn't clutter up the directories that the videos are in, what would you do about the Sidecar files? You don't have any option to move them to another location, and their creation, editing, and management is all handled programmatically. I guess the other devices you are using don't display XML files, so they are not a problem? Could you get those devices to also not display images in the view you are using?

Anyway, I wasn't privy to the reason behind the way video Cover Art is done that way. I just read that there were problems with the incorrect Cover Art being displayed, because of file naming, which is used as the key to find Cover Art.

[fermenter]

Thanks Roderick, and apologies for dragging you along on someone else's ride!

I confess I don't know what sidecar files are - I see nothing in my video directories other than the video files and their thumbnail images. And really, the image files aren't that much of a problem - they are a mild clutter annoyance when browsing in Windows and I have a couple of bits of hardware that list them by name when I browse for network media, but I am rapidly streamlining 'theater view' together with a Harmony hub so I'm spending a lot less time navigating directories anyway.

It's very decent of you to be so thorough with your replies, thank you. 

[RoderickGI]

No problem.

You must not have Sidecar files turned on for video. I do, as it means all tags are stored both in the library and next to the files, in a sidecar file. It makes the data more transportable.

The settings is at "Options > General > Importing & Tagging > Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video.

There is only one option in there; to select video files or not. In your case I guess they would just add more clutter!

[raymondjpg]

I have read and re-read this thread, and the Wiki, and while I can quite readily prevent Sidecar files turning up in my video files directories, I have been unable to prevent jpg files from being generated when importing to the library.

Is there an option to do this? I have "Get cover art" and "Build thumbnails" unchecked in Configure auto-import.

[RoderickGI]

The "Get Movie & TV Info" function will download Cover Art for Movies and TV program Episodes, and place them next to the video file.

The only way to stop that would be to turn off the "Get Movie & TV Info" function in Auto Import, and then run that process manually for each video file, or a group of files, and deselect the "Use Image" or "Get Image" checkbox. That setting gets turned back on for each run for individual file lookups, but stays turned off for file group lookups. You could run the "Get Movie & TV Info" function using the "Recently Imported" Smartlist, to make it easier to find newly imported files.

Or you could just delete the jpg files regularly. Perhaps even create a Task Scheduler job and script to do it.

I guess you must really hate jpgs to be bothered though. They don't take up much space, without them MC or any media application is much less pretty. Poster art has been part of the movie experience forever. But, your choice, and above are the options.
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Wait!

I thought about this some more. As the "Get Image" setting is remembered when the "Get Movie & TV Info" function is run for multiple files, and as Auto Import would normally be run for multiple files, then you should be able to turn that setting off and have it affect future runs of the "Get Movie & TV Info" function.

Just select a couple of video files, launch the "Get Movie & TV Info" function, uncheck the "Get Image" checkbox, run the function by clicking Ok, and the setting will be saved. Now future Auto Import runs with multiple files imported won't get images. I tested that.

Then I tried importing just one file with "Get Image" unchecked, and MC didn't get an image then either. So MC must use the multiple file method of retrieving metadata when the "Get Movie & TV Info" function is run via Auto Import, even if only one file is imported. Cool.

So that is your fix. Just uncheck the "Get Image" setting in the "Get Movie & TV Info" function.

[raymondjpg]

The "Get Movie & TV Info" function will download Cover Art for Movies and TV program Episodes, and place them next to the video file.

The only way to stop that would be to turn off the "Get Movie & TV Info" function in Auto Import, and then run that process manually for each video file, or a group of files, and deselect the "Use Image" or "Get Image" checkbox. That setting gets turned back on for each run for individual file lookups, but stays turned off for file group lookups. You could run the "Get Movie & TV Info" function using the "Recently Imported" Smartlist, to make it easier to find newly imported files.

Or you could just delete the jpg files regularly. Perhaps even create a Task Scheduler job and script to do it.

I guess you must really hate jpgs to be bothered though. They don't take up much space, without them MC or any media application is much less pretty. Poster art has been part of the movie experience forever. But, your choice, and above are the options.
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.
.
Wait!

I thought about this some more. As the "Get Image" setting is remembered when the "Get Movie & TV Info" function is run for multiple files, and as Auto Import would normally be run for multiple files, then you should be able to turn that setting off and have it affect future runs of the "Get Movie & TV Info" function.

Just select a couple of video files, launch the "Get Movie & TV Info" function, uncheck the "Get Image" checkbox, run the function by clicking Ok, and the setting will be saved. Now future Auto Import runs with multiple files imported won't get images. I tested that.

Then I tried importing just one file with "Get Image" unchecked, and MC didn't get an image then either. So MC must use the multiple file method of retrieving metadata when the "Get Movie & TV Info" function is run via Auto Import, even if only one file is imported. Cool.

So that is your fix. Just uncheck the "Get Image" setting in the "Get Movie & TV Info" function.

Thanks for the quick response.

I tried unchecking the "Use image" box when invoking the Get Movie and TV Info function on a couple of files, then "Use this data", but the "Use image" box remained checked when I tried it on another file. Also, jpg files were still generated when importing to the library. In short that method did not work for me.

However, your post sent me in the right direction because there is the ability to uncheck Get movie and TV info in the Configure auto-import setup which, when unchecked, resulted in no jpgs being generated.

I don't hate jpgs, just unnecessary clutter in my video fileserver directories. I'll try Theater view without jpgs and see if it compromises my experience of JRiver in any way. If it does, I'll be looking for some other option.

Edit: Being a novice at all this I misinterpreted your instructions. Selecting two TV shows at once allowed me to disable the Get image option, such that no jpgs were created in the video source directory. The Get image option is still checked when selecting one file Get movie and TV info, but I'll rely on your advice that from now on it should remain disabled for multiple file imports into the library.

[RoderickGI]

Good. I very specifically differentiated between "Use Image" which appears on single file processing, and "Get Image" which appears on multiple file processing. Different things.

Almost all media center type applications use separate images for display in their 10 foot interfaces, and they get those images from the same or similar sources to MC.

But if you really don't want jpgs in the folders with your videos, there is an alternative. In fact, by default if no image is available MC selects a screenshot from the video to use as a thumbnail. Check the settings at;
"Options > Tree & View > Thumbnails > Capture video thumbnails at xxx seconds" and also the "Capture television recording thumbnails at yyy seconds" Those are global settings.

That process doesn't put a jpg next to the video file. You will see you can turn that process off in the settings as well.

You can also grab a screen image from a movie at any point by;
Right-click on a playing or paused movie, selecting Window > Use Screen Grab for Thumbnail.

But that puts a jpg next to the video file, and if you delete that jpg, MC reverts to the timed thumbnail grab as above whenever it rebuilds the thumbnail for the video.


There have been a few people that didn't want Cover Art image files next to the video files, and a couple of them admitted it was purely because of their OCD. But the benefits of having Cover Art far outweigh the irritation of having the separate files there, in my opinion, and I don't like clutter either.

Good luck.

[RoderickGI]

Note that the "Get Movie & TV Info" function has been improved so that it remembers all settings between runs, and settings used for multiple file lookups are now shared with single file lookups. That should help in the above processes I described.

The improvements will be available in a future public release of MC.

Reference: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,119095.0.html

[Dungho]

Hi, this is same problem I'm having. I tried JRiver about 5 years ago, stopped after the first use after seeing it downloaded all the cover art for videos in same folder. this is so annoying.
I decided to give JRiver a try again today and same thing still happening.
Anyone know if JRiver has something in the work to fix this ?

[Dungho]

Something like how Plex is doing it. Plex does not touch the media folder at all.

[JimH]

I tried JRiver about 5 years ago, stopped after the first use after seeing it downloaded all the cover art for videos in same folder.

Please explain why you think that's a problem.

[Dungho]

for me, this is cluttering up the video media files. In the media folder, i just want the video files.
Is it possible in future release of JMC, cover art for video and JRCard be saved in separate folder ?

[JimH]

Why do you need to browse by folder and file?  If you use MC's views, you never see the extra files.

[Dungho]

This is my usage preference. Thanks if this can't be done.
It's very annoying to have the extra files saved in the video folder. I'll uninstall the trial jriver then.

[RoderickGI]

You'd give up the fantastic functionality of JRiver Media Center just because you don't like extra files next to the video files?!

You really should run the trial until the end, and try to use MC Views instead of browsing folders. That is a big change in behaviour, but it is worth the effort of learning how to use the power of MC's Library Management capabilities, and Views.

[h0mer]

For me i would prefer to have the movie artwork and sidecar files not saved with the media files because browsing my jriver library causes my nas drives to spin up and my jriver client freezes until the drives are spun up.  Also i'm with the other two guys and i like my directories clean.