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[robert cumming]

I'm new to jriver MC.  I have created a digital library based on ripped CDs, but what to do with my SACD disks as my computer will not rip them, and my computer cannot access my networked Sony universal disk player hooked up to my AV receiver. Can I manually create a album record in MC - the album database record is created but there are no linked digital music files. Befuddled!

[bean_counter]

There are back-door methods for ripping SACDs, using early non-updated Sony PS3's (tough to find), or certain obsolete Oppo and Pioneer universal players that use a specific chip. 

google SACD ripping, info is out there

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Most SACDs from the past 15 or so years are hybrids, containing both an RBCD layer and a DSD layer read by different lasers in the player.  It should be possible to rip the RBCD layer just like any CD, if the disc is a hybrid, as most are. The RBCD layer is readable and playable by most any CD player or CD optical drive. Some SACDs also allow a choice in the player for playback of the hirez DSD layer between a 2-channel and a 5.0/.1 version.

DRM encryption of the DSD layer means that only licensed SACD players may have access to that hirez material.  Those players are not permitted to output that hirez DSD in digital form.  Hence, there is is no direct way to capture the DSD.  There are, however, certain very specific players from Oppo, Pioneer and a few others that have been hacked via software to permit decryption of the DSD and allow the transfer - ripping - via Ethernet to a playable file on a PC.  JR permits playback of those files in several different container formats.

It is a very long thread, but you can read about it here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28569-sacd-ripping-using-an-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true/

I suggest you try to get through as much of that thread as you can and direct any questions about the process there.

I have myself ripped over 4,000 SACDs to my JR library as DSF files in 2.0 or preferably in 5.0/.1 wherever Mch was available on the source disc.  I currently use an Oppo 103 for ripping to my NAS.  But, previously, I used a Sony PS3, which was much more cumbersome.  Only specific early PS3 models could do it, and those are extremely scarce and unreliable.

It took a lot of effort in ripping and tagging.  But, I am extremely happy with the results, which are the basis of most all of my listening, which is in hirez Mch.

[robert cumming]

Your information is most helpful.  Thank you.  This is much more complicated than I expected, but I'm heartened by the over 4,000 SACDs that you have ripped - obviously you have a well developed work flow.  In the short term, I will rip the RBCD tracks as you suggested.  Does every Oppo 103 have the ability to read SACDs, or is it like the PS3 that only certain model numbers work?

[JimH]

I don't think it's every Oppo 103.  It requires a certain chipset.  You could search a little to find out.

[madbrain]

Most SACDs from the past 15 or so years are hybrids, containing both an RBCD layer and a DSD layer read by different lasers in the player.  It should be possible to rip the RBCD layer just like any CD, if the disc is a hybrid, as most are. The RBCD layer is readable and playable by most any CD player or CD optical drive. Some SACDs also allow a choice in the player for playback of the hirez DSD layer between a 2-channel and a 5.0/.1 version.

DRM encryption of the DSD layer means that only licensed SACD players may have access to that hirez material.  Those players are not permitted to output that hirez DSD in digital form.  Hence, there is is no direct way to capture the DSD.  There are, however, certain very specific players from Oppo, Pioneer and a few others that have been hacked via software to permit decryption of the DSD and allow the transfer - ripping - via Ethernet to a playable file on a PC.  JR permits playback of those files in several different container formats.

It is a very long thread, but you can read about it here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28569-sacd-ripping-using-an-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true/

I suggest you try to get through as much of that thread as you can and direct any questions about the process there.

I have myself ripped over 4,000 SACDs to my JR library as DSF files in 2.0 or preferably in 5.0/.1 wherever Mch was available on the source disc.  I currently use an Oppo 103 for ripping to my NAS.  But, previously, I used a Sony PS3, which was much more cumbersome.  Only specific early PS3 models could do it, and those are extremely scarce and unreliable.

It took a lot of effort in ripping and tagging.  But, I am extremely happy with the results, which are the basis of most all of my listening, which is in hirez Mch.

I still have one of those old PS3s but it's likely going to die at some point.

How do you playback your collection and keep in DSD format as long as possible before playback ?

I have ripped to SACD ISOs too, but MC will not stream DSD over HDMI to my AVR unfortunately - apparently GPU driver limitations. I wish the GPU makers would update the drivers. In the meantime, I'm playing my SACDs from physical discs with a physical SACD player in my home theater.
I recently bought a Sony Blu-ray player that supports SACD-R for some discs that got physically damaged that I couldn't buy again ($500 used price). Still hoping the DSD over HDMI bitstreaming issue from PC will get resolved eventually .

[dtc]

I don't think it's every Oppo 103.  It requires a certain chipset.  You could search a little to find out.

All Oppo 103/10s have the necessary chip.  Earlier and latter Oppo players do not work, since they have a different chip.

[madbrain]

All Oppo 103/10s have the necessary chip.  Earlier and latter Oppo players do not work, since they have a different chip.

Not an Oppo owner here, but I read that some firmware upgrades on certain models fixed the security holes that allowed SACD ripping or SACD-R playback.

[dtc]

Not an Oppo owner here, but I read that some firmware upgrades on certain models fixed the security holes that allowed SACD ripping or SACD-R playback.

I do not believe Oppo has released any update that disables this ability. At least I have not seen it on the Computeraudiophile thread. The question comes up periodically, but I do not think Oppo has released such an update. Obviously this is something to check if buying a 103 to copy SACDs, just to be sure.

[madbrain]

I do not believe Oppo has released any update that disables this ability. At least I have not seen it on the Computeraudiophile thread. The question comes up periodically, but I do not think Oppo has released such an update. Obviously this is something to check if buying a 103 to copy SACDs, just to be sure.

Maybe not on the BDP-103 but they did on the BDP-105 when it comes to SACD-R support :
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28569-sacd-ripping-using-an-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true/?page=70
Anyway. Just thought I would warn those who have their devices networked in case they run some auto update.

My main SACD player (SCD-CE775 changer, analog out) does not even have an ethernet plug. Does not play SACD-R unfortunately.

My PS3 has never been networked to prevent the firmware from being updated. Nor have I ever played in games that might update the firmware.

My Sony BDP-S580 is not networked either to avoid any unwanted firmware updates. The out of the box firmware supports SACD-R . It cost me less than $50 from Amazon recently, used. Of course this won't help with any ripped library or NAS. But it's useful to me in order to bitstream everything in DSD, which still can't be done from PC. Maybe there is some embedded device with an HDMI out that can bitstream DSD over HDMI - if so, I am all ears.

[TheShoe]

the mediatek chipset in the oppo 103 and 105 works.

the same chipset appears in other bluray and sacd players

oppo has not patched this and not sure they can.   google and ye shall find

it is a far far better solution than the old ps3 method.

[dtc]

Maybe not on the BDP-103 but they did on the BDP-105 when it comes to SACD-R support :

SACD-R are not true SACDs. They are as ISO burned to a DVD-R.  Some players will read them, but, like ripping SACDs, it is a limited number of players and it is a bug in those players that lets it work.  The SACD-R issue was discussed recently in a thread here and it was discussed in your link. Earlier Oppos could read SACD-R but I do not believe the 103/105 ever did, according to ted_b on the CA thread.

In any case, the SACD R issue is a different issue.

[Awesome Donkey]

Glad I never got into trying to rip the few SACDs I own myself after looking at the prices of Oppo 103s on eBay. I don't suppose there's a 'budget' option for a player that's able to rip SACDs? Probably a refurbished 1st gen PS3 or something like that.

[dtc]

Glad I never got into trying to rip the few SACDs I own myself after looking at the prices of Oppo 103s on eBay. I don't suppose there's a 'budget' option for a player that's able to rip SACDs? Probably a refurbished 1st gen PS3 or something like that.

Some of the Pioneer players that work can be purchased new or used on eBay for a lot less than the Oppos. BDP-80FD, BDP-160, 170 all work. The 80FD is available, but people keep buying them for SACD ripping.

[bean_counter]

I bought a Pioneer BDP-80FD in November, "manufacturer refurbished", fairly cheaply - cheaper than used units are going for now that the word is out. 

The "manufacturer refurbished" probably means a third party jobber here in the US fixed whatever issue the player had, and they very likely would have installed any firmware updates.  It rips SACDs nicely, so I doubt that there's a firmware update out there to block SACD rips - at least for Pioneer. 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I still have one of those old PS3s but it's likely going to die at some point.

How do you playback your collection and keep in DSD format as long as possible before playback ?

I have ripped to SACD ISOs too, but MC will not stream DSD over HDMI to my AVR unfortunately - apparently GPU driver limitations. I wish the GPU makers would update the drivers. In the meantime, I'm playing my SACDs from physical discs with a physical SACD player in my home theater.
I recently bought a Sony Blu-ray player that supports SACD-R for some discs that got physically damaged that I couldn't buy again ($500 used price). Still hoping the DSD over HDMI bitstreaming issue from PC will get resolved eventually .

Yes, GPUs do not support DSD for HDMI output, though they do support hirez PCM.  However, NVidia, at least in the past, has only supported 96k and 192k, not 88k or 176k.  AMD and Intel support all the common hirez sampling rates up to 192k via HDMI.  It is possible, though unlikely, that they might support DSD64 in future models, and it is doubtful they would want to update existing GPUs via firmware for DSD.

But, JR does a very nice job of converting DSD files on the fly to your choice of hirez PCM sampling.  I maintain my library as extensively tagged DSF files.  I can play them bitstreamed as DSD, including any at up to DSD256, via USB to my Exasound E28 DAC.  But, normally I prefer to play them converted on the fly to PCM 176k so I can use features of DSP Studio and the Dirac Live VST plugin.

[madbrain]

Yes, GPUs do not support DSD for HDMI output, though they do support hirez PCM.  However, NVidia, at least in the past, has only supported 96k and 192k, not 88k or 176k.  AMD and Intel support all the common hirez sampling rates up to 192k via HDMI.  It is possible, though unlikely, that they might support DSD64 in future models, and it is doubtful they would want to update existing GPUs via firmware for DSD.\

Yes, I am well aware of the issue with nVidia and lack of 88k/176k PCM playback.
Maybe I should have bought an AMD card recently when I upgraded from a GT630 to a GT1030. I needed an HDMI 2.0 GPU for the new 4K projector. The GT1030 was only $70. And I get to resell my GT630, if anyone wants it, so it was as cheap as an upgrade as it got. That said, I would have gladly paid more if it could bitstream DSD, but not for extra PCM rates.

But, JR does a very nice job of converting DSD files on the fly to your choice of hirez PCM sampling.  I maintain my library as extensively tagged DSF files.  I can play them bitstreamed as DSD, including any at up to DSD256, via USB to my Exasound E28 DAC.  But, normally I prefer to play them converted on the fly to PCM 176k so I can use features of DSP Studio and the Dirac Live VST plugin.

Agree MC does a good job quality wise, but it's only useful if you have a recent CPU. With 5.1 SACD, the on-the-fly conversion takes 30% CPU on my FX-8120. 8-core CPU, but still too old - 2011 chip. The smaller diameter fans in the HTPC then run full speed and ruin the audio in my listening room, making DSD/SACD essentially pointless. If I turn on power management, fans stay on low, but the CPU cannot keep up and the audio pauses.  I would much rather have bit streaming that consumes 0% CPU. My Marantz SR7011 receiver does all the room correction I want and is completely silent.

Is your DAC 2 channel or multichannel ? For me, the multichannel is a big attraction of SACD vs other formats such as CD/MP3. And it was really designed for audio only - no menus to go through like in DVD/Blu-ray.

Upgrading the FX-8120 CPU would require a new motherboard, new CPU, new RAM type, and is generally a pain , not just an expense. There isn't a new high performance chip I can put into my existing Gigabyte 990 UD3 motherboard. I would also lose some features like legacy PCI (did I mention I have a 17 year old SCSI card in this HTPC) ?
Frankly, I am not seeing a rationale for upgrading that HTPC. Would much rather have something in Raspberry Pi form factor that can bitstream DSD.
My Odroid XU4 has USB 3.0 and plenty enough bandwidth for DSD. But i would need an HDMI GPU that can plug in to USB 3.0 and bitstream DSD.
This is what I really want to buy. Along with smartphones with physical keyboards, laptops with trackballs on the left side, and so on.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

My PC is older, too, but is an I7, Silverlake maybe, with 16GB of RAM.  It has been awhile since I checked resource consumption, but Kal and I compared notes on that 1-2 years ago.  I seem to recall CPU in the 10-20% range playing a Mch 5.0/.1 DSF file while doing on the fly 176k PCM conversion, bass management in JR, and Dirac Live EQ with USB output.  And, my HiDef TV was on as a monitor via HDMI through my AMD GPU.  RAM usage was only about 4 GB with 16-bit JR.  Overall, loafing, I would say.

I have also occasionally loaded up five or six simultaneous tasks - file copies, extracts from ISO, etc. - while listening as above in Mch.  I heard no dropouts or buffering, etc.

Fan or disc noise is inconsequential for me.  My PC is in an adjoining room, connected by a 5 meter USB cable through the wall.

Conversion to 96k or 192k is probably sonically inconsequential compared to 88k or 176k.

I do avoid bitstreaming DSD because that does not permit speaker distance correction, bass management or room EQ.  Hence, there is some Mch spatial distortion and adverse room effects, especially in the bass, using pure DSD in my setup. My speakers also benefit from bass management to a sub.

Yes, I totally agree about the excellence of Mch listening, and SACD, in spite of its quirks and difficulties, is still the primary source for Mch music.  I have built my library and system to enjoy it to its fullest.

[madbrain]

My PC is older, too, but is an I7, Silverlake maybe, with 16GB of RAM.  It has been awhile since I checked resource consumption, but Kal and I compared notes on that 1-2 years ago.  I seem to recall CPU in the 10-20% range playing a Mch 5.0/.1 DSF file while doing on the fly 176k PCM conversion, bass management in JR, and Dirac Live EQ with USB output.  And, my HiDef TV was on as a monitor via HDMI through my AMD GPU.  RAM usage was only about 4 GB with 16-bit JR.  Overall, loafing, I would say.

I have also occasionally loaded up five or six simultaneous tasks - file copies, extracts from ISO, etc. - while listening as above in Mch.  I heard no dropouts or buffering, etc.

Fan or disc noise is inconsequential for me.  My PC is in an adjoining room, connected by a 5 meter USB cable through the wall.

Conversion to 96k or 192k is probably sonically inconsequential compared to 88k or 176k.

My HTPC has 12GB of RAM, but it is in the same room. When power management is set to "high performance", it can handle quite a few tasks, probably the same as yours can. But since it's in the listening room, fan noise is a big issue to me.
If you are running 4K/60p with HDMI 2.0 from your HTPC GPU to your display, a 5 meter HDMI cable can cause issues - you have to buy active cables or expect signal dropouts.
I am using 3- 10ft cables from my 4K sources to the receiver . I do have one active 40ft cable from the receiver to projector.

I do avoid bitstreaming DSD because that does not permit speaker distance correction, bass management or room EQ.  Hence, there is some Mch spatial distortion and adverse room effects, especially in the bass, using pure DSD in my setup. My speakers also benefit from bass management to a sub.

My Marantz SR7011 AVR manages all the speaker distance, bass management and room EQ, even when I bitstream DSD from my Sony UBP-X800 Blu-ray player which supports SACDs.
Presumably, it does a PCM conversion internally on-the-fly. The SR7011 has some fans, but unlike my HTPC's fans, I have never heard them come on - they might at higher listening levels. I listen to my SACDs on an 11.1 speaker system, including 4 powered subs. I use my old receiver to power 2 of the speakers, since the SR7011 powers "only" 9 of the primary 11. The DTS Neural:X or Dolby Surround Upmixing of the receiver can convert all my sources to 11.1, with various degrees of success, but usually it's a pretty big improvement over the original source material, whether it's 4.0, 5.0 or 5.1 SACDs. I would still much prefer an HDMI DSD bitstreaming solution for PC. If one ever appears, it will justify upgrading my HTPC hardware to something completely fanless. My nVidia GT1030 GPU is fanless, as was the previous GT630. The CPU fans and case fans are the problem. And the FX-8120 really cannot run fanless even if you drop it down to 1 core and low frequency (at which point it wouldn't cope with DSD multi-channel anyway).

Yes, I totally agree about the excellence of Mch listening, and SACD, in spite of its quirks and difficulties, is still the primary source for Mch music.  I have built my library and system to enjoy it to its fullest.

Absolutely. Now, please tell me where you acquired those 4000 multi-channel SACDs at an affordable price, as I would like to grow my collection as well. Most SACDs retail new for $20-$30. Sometimes drop to $15, but rarely less than $10 shipped unless you buy used discs. A far cry from the days where I used to buy 500 CDs a year from BMG at an average $5/CD.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Yes, your Marantz is without question converting DSD to PCM in order to apply any DSP functions.  I would not foresee any sonic penalty in having JR do that conversion to PCM instead, other than the thermal fan issues you cite.  As I said earlier, I doubt you will ever see a DSD over HDMI solution originating from a PC GPS.

My SACD library?  It took many years, and my sources shall remain my little secret.

[kr4]

My HTPC has 12GB of RAM, but it is in the same room. When power management is set to "high performance", it can handle quite a few tasks, probably the same as yours can. But since it's in the listening room, fan noise is a big issue to me.

There are quiet/silent PCs. I am running an i7/7700k with 16g RAM and SSD storage.

My Marantz SR7011 AVR manages all the speaker distance, bass management and room EQ, even when I bitstream DSD from my Sony UBP-X800 Blu-ray player which supports SACDs.  Presumably, it does a PCM conversion internally on-the-fly.

I'd put money on that.

Absolutely. Now, please tell me where you acquired those 4000 multi-channel SACDs at an affordable price, as I would like to grow my collection as well. Most SACDs retail new for $20-$30. Sometimes drop to $15, but rarely less than $10 shipped unless you buy used discs. A far cry from the days where I used to buy 500 CDs a year from BMG at an average $5/CD.

Easy.  Start 15 years ago.  (Could not resist.)

[madbrain]

Easy.  Start 15 years ago.  (Could not resist.)

I got my first SACD 17 years ago. My collection is still under 200 discs, though.

[dtc]

There are two ways for HDMI to support DSD. 

First, would be to pass native DSD sample rates, namely 2.8 MHz and 5.6 MHz. Given that HDMI is primarily a video pipe, there is little incentive for the board makers to do that.

Second, would be to pass DoP (DSD over PCM) which would be 176 KHz (DSD64) or 352 KHz (DSD128).  But, then the AVR would have to understand DoP on its HDMI input.   Various AVR makers support DoP on USB, but not sure if they support it on HDMI.  They usually just support native DSD sample rates, since that is what SACD players put out.

According to Fitzcaraldo215 Intel and AMD support 176 KHz on HDMI, but the AVR would have to implement DoP on its HDMI input to make it work.


Another option is to use DLNA. Some DACs/receivers accept DSD over DLNA. Not sure if it can support multichannel, but it certainly possible to  do 2 channel DSD64 over DLNA.  The new Sony receivers support mch DSD, but not sure about DLNA. I have read that it does, but have not read of anyone using it.

[madbrain]

There are two ways for HDMI to support DSD. 

First, would be to pass native DSD sample rates, namely 2.8 MHz and 5.6 MHz. Given that HDMI is primarily a video pipe, there is little incentive for the board makers to do that.

We are talking about 1 bit at 2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz - fairly low data rates compared to video. It's been in the spec since at least HDMI 1.3 . I'm

Second, would be to pass DoP (DSD over PCM) which would be 176 KHz (DSD64) or 352 KHz (DSD128).  But, then the AVR would have to understand DoP on its HDMI input.   Various AVR makers support DoP on USB, but not sure if they support it on HDMI.  They usually just support native DSD sample rates, since that is what SACD players put out.
According to Fitzcaraldo215 Intel and AMD support 176 KHz on HDMI, but the AVR would have to implement DoP on its HDMI input to make it work.

Yes. Not sure why one would bother with DoP vs bitstreaming native DSD. At least DSD bistreaming over HDMI is part of a standard. Most AVRs have supported it for years, if not a decade.

Another option is to use DLNA. Some DACs/receivers accept DSD over DLNA. Not sure if it can support multichannel, but it certainly possible to  do 2 channel DSD64 over DLNA.  The new Sony receivers support mch DSD, but not sure about DLNA. I have read that it does, but have not read of anyone using it.

I looked into this. I think my Marantz supports only 2 channels DSD over DLNA, so it is not of much interest.
There are also many other issues with DLNA.
For example, in order for the receiver to play the file, you may have to switch the receiver to the DLNA "input". Then you no can no longer visualize your JRiver Media Center GUI. The GUI for DLNA in receivers is very crude compared to Media Center. It's not easy to select files or albums when you have a large collection, and you have to "type" things with an IR remote.
Gapless playback may not work correctly with DLNA also, but works fine with SACD physical players that bitstream, and in JRiver media enter.

I'm sticking with physical discs for SACDs because of the bitstreaming, and because my bitstreaming players are completely silent, unlike my HTPC.

[TheShoe]

But, JR does a very nice job of converting DSD files on the fly to your choice of hirez PCM sampling.  I maintain my library as extensively tagged DSF files.  I can play them bitstreamed as DSD, including any at up to DSD256, via USB to my Exasound E28 DAC.  But, normally I prefer to play them converted on the fly to PCM 176k so I can use features of DSP Studio and the Dirac Live VST plugin.

how is that exasound dac?  i am considering the exasound 38 though I would love to audition one and see how much of a difference it makes over converting to PCM.

--

my Marantz AV7703 will support DSD from JRiver when JR is used as a controller but it's limited to 2 channel, and for reasons I can't figure out yet, i can never stop playback.  if i  hit stop it just plays the next track.  very annoying.

still it's an otherwise excellent piece of hardware.  noticed even the latest marantz models are still limited to 2 channel.

[kr4]

I got my first SACD 17 years ago. My collection is still under 200 discs, though.

I have no quip for you about that.   Too bad you were not more acquisitive. 

[dtc]

We are talking about 1 bit at 2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz - fairly low data rates compared to video. It's been in the spec since at least HDMI 1.3 . I'm

Graphics/video  companies are not interested in DSD, no matter what the spec says. What is the fiscal incentive for Nvidea to do DSD sample rates? How many more cards are they going to sell if they support DSD? They are  a graphics company, not an audio company.

Yes. Not sure why one would bother with DoP vs bitstreaming native DSD. At least DSD bistreaming over HDMI is part of a standard. Most AVRs have supported it for years, if not a decade.

Apple audio does not support DSD sample rates. DoP was implemented to allow Apple users to play DSD. Most AVR companies who support DSD over usb support DoP.

DoP is pretty much a standard these days, even if it is not a formal standard.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

how is that exasound dac?  i am considering the exasound 38 though I would love to audition one and see how much of a difference it makes over converting to PCM.

--

my Marantz AV7703 will support DSD from JRiver when JR is used as a controller but it's limited to 2 channel, and for reasons I can't figure out yet, i can never stop playback.  if i  hit stop it just plays the next track.  very annoying.

still it's an otherwise excellent piece of hardware.  noticed even the latest marantz models are still limited to 2 channel.

Love my Exasound E28.  Kal has also reviewed the E38 very positively.  Check his blog at the Stereophile site.

I would have considered upgrading to an E38, but I prefer keeping the balanced XLR outputs on my E28.

I previously used HDMI into an Integra prepro, and the Exasound is much better sonically to me.  USB into a DAC is preferable in many ways.  I use no prepro or preamp, just straight PC to DAC for sound, and HDMI for video only straight to my HiDef monitor.

[Trubadix]

@Robert: There are some companies who rip SACDs, for example a very trusty one in Vienna/Austria. As you are paying for tagging and not for ripping, it is legal, but it will cost you quite a fortune. You get 5.0 or 5.1 DSF. It perfectly works with JRiver and a multichannel Exasound DAC.

[stanzani]

The Oppo BDP-105 can do the job. The Oppo 203 can't. It is related to the version of the mediatek chipset and APIs

[MikeyFresh]

Glad I never got into trying to rip the few SACDs I own myself after looking at the prices of Oppo 103s on eBay. I don't suppose there's a 'budget' option for a player that's able to rip SACDs? Probably a refurbished 1st gen PS3 or something like that.

Plenty of other SACD rip capable Blu-ray player models to choose from, in particular the various compatible Sony units tend to be both available on the used market and inexpensive, roughly $20-40 depending on the exact model and physical condition along with presence of original remote and box (or not).

http://www.hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rip-sacd-with-a-blu-ray-player.3652/#post-69000