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[Hendrik]

JRiver Media Center for Windows now has the ability to display and navigate Blu-ray Menus (as of 23.0.98)

Menu support is still under active development and considered Beta, as such not all discs are guaranteed to work.
If you encounter a disc with a menu which doesn't work (at all, or partially), and its not listed as a known issue, please do report this here, with the name of the disc in question.

Menus are not enabled by default at this time. You can find the option to enable them in Media Centers settings:
Options -> Video -> Enable Blu-ray Menus

At the current time, this option is only available in the Beta channel. If you are in the Beta update channel and are not seeing this option with MC 23.0.98 or newer, make sure to run an update check on the beta channel to unlock it.

Java Support

Media Center supports playback of BD-J (Java) discs. As of 24.0.8, Java is automatically installed as a playback dependency.

Known Issues in the current version:
- UHD BDs are untested, UHD BD-J menus are not supported.
- Image cropping/zooming/aspect ratio adjustments may conflict with the Menu

Limitations:
- 3D is not supported, you need to use Blu-ray Title Playback for 3D decoding to kick in
- "Sub path" audio is not supported, which can result in some still-image menus to be missing its background music
- Secondary Video/Audio is not supported yet (Picture in Picture, Overlay Commentary tracks on some discs)
- Bookmarks and other Playback State (ie. audio tracks) is not saved/restored yet
- Navigating Menus with the mouse can be a bit flimsy at times (and doesn't work with BD-J at all) - they are really not designed for mouse usage, so consider it a bonus if it works!

This post will be amended when additional information is available for Java menus and other future developments.

[Hendrik]

Room for more information

[Hendrik]

Unfortunately a large number of discs are going to be Java based, and its not quite obvious that this is the reason when it plain out fails right now. So next up I'll work first on reporting errors to the user directly, and then Java support.
The log currently already contains the info if a disc uses Java, and you can also determine this if your disc has files in ..\BDMV\BDJO

[jmone]

Thanks Hendrik, great work!  ..and nice differentiator for MC.  Can't wait to test and report back (but it will be a few days till I'm back at home 😭 )

[mojave]

Awesome! I tested a concert Blu-ray and it works great. I'll try a UHD disc this evening.

When using the down/up arrow in Display View, the heading still says "DVD Menu."

[mattkhan]

Unfortunately a large number of discs are going to be Java based, and its not quite obvious that this is the reason when it plain out fails right now. So next up I'll work first on reporting errors to the user directly, and then Java support.
The log currently already contains the info if a disc uses Java, and you can also determine this if your disc has files in ..\BDMV\BDJO

I guess this is what you mean by this failure, could you make it fallback to no menus instead?

Code: [Select]

0032500: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Opening W:\10 Cloverfield Lane\BDMV\index.bdmv
0032531: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:126: Error opening registry key SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\
0032531: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:682: BD-J check: Failed to load JVM library
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/disc/disc.c:424: error opening file CERTIFICATE\id.bdmv
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/disc/disc.c:424: error opening file CERTIFICATE\BACKUP\id.bdmv
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:126: Error opening registry key SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:682: BD-J check: Failed to load JVM library
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Disc Opened, no_menu: 0, first_play: 1, top_menu: 1, num_titles: 81 (3 hdmv, 78 bdj, 78 unsupported)
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: BDJ detected: 1, JVM available: 0, BDJ handled: 0
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: AACS detected: 0, AACS handled: 0, BD+ detected: 0, BD+ handled: 0
0032563: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Starting playback..
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Angle (1)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Title (65535)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event IG Stream (1)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Audio Stream (255)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event PG TextST (1)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event PG TextST Stream (4095)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Video (0)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Video Size (0)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Video Stream (255)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Audio (0)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Secondary Audio Stream (255)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Title (65535)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event UO Mask Changed (3)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:126: Error opening registry key SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bdj/bdj.c:835: Wasn't able to load JVM
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDLog: libbluray/bluray.c:3166: Can't play BD-J title 2
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Title (2)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::ProcessEvent: Event Error (2)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::Open: Finish (78 ms)
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDOverlayFlush: Flushing empty HDMV Overlay on plane 0, at -0
0032578: 5904: Playback: CBDNavDemux::BDOverlayFlush: Flushing empty HDMV Overlay on plane 1, at -0
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::ConnectSourceAndSplitterBlurayMenu: Failed to open file.  (hr=0x80004005)
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::SetMissingDecryptionErrorWhenFileTypeIsBluray: Start
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::SetMissingDecryptionErrorWhenFileTypeIsBluray: Finish (0 ms)
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::ConnectSourceAndSplitterBlurayMenu: Finish (3734 ms)
0032578: 5904: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::Render: Error: source / splitter did not expose output pins.


[mattkhan]

actually better would probably be a menu option like "open menu" as opposed to play means open menu

[Hendrik]

In the future, if Java is not available (or some other error occurs), it should probably display some message and then do title playback. It doesn't do that yet. A separate play button is tricky, we have lots of play buttons everywhere.

[Hendrik]

When using the down/up arrow in Display View, the heading still says "DVD Menu."

Speaking about that option, there is a bit of a somewhat related question there - Blu-ray player remotes typically have two menu keys, one for the "Disc menu", and one for the "Title Popup Menu". The first typically takes you to the main menu screen, while the second makes a menu popup somewhere (often at the bottom), so you can change languages etc on the fly.

Now Media Center, and most MCE remotes, only really know a single "Menu" button. Right now it opens the "Disc Menu", but I'm thinking maybe it might be better to open the Popup menu? On most discs I have tested, the Popup menu actually has a button to take you to the Disc Menu, if you're so inclined. The right-click context menu in MC has options for both, if you want to see the difference.

I have yet to check how other PC Blu-ray players handle this, so if anyone has something at hand right away, that might be good info too.

[mattkhan]

In the future, if Java is not available (or some other error occurs), it should probably display some message and then do title playback. It doesn't do that yet. A separate play button is tricky, we have lots of play buttons everywhere.

I am pretty sure that I will invariably use the existing (no menu) play button but will want to use the menu for specific things and/or specific discs (e.g. perhaps I want to watch a particular extra or skip to a particular track). I suppose one way to look at this is whether I can access the menus from within a disk after I start playback (without menus) or do I have to enter via menus to get access menus at all?

I guess that means the following would cover it for me;

- allow me to set an overall default action on play
- provide an menu item that can start playback or open menu
- provide the same via MCWS
- allow me to access the menu once playback has started irrespective of whether I entered via play or via menu

[Hendrik]

Playback can't just switch to menus on the fly, it would have to be stopped and entirely re-started in menu mode. I don't expect to be adding such a button.

I'm not sure that we can have a special playback action in all the possible places for a special file type, we'll see about that later, but it seems unlikely, because Playback is controlled through quite a lot of different layers and interfaces. Not sure yet how to let people choose between the two more easily, for the time being its just going to be a global option.

DVDs already have the same problem today, we technically have the ability to do title playback, but its just not really exposed except if DVD menu playback is unavailable (ie. remote from a media server).

[mojave]

One could use a Menu and No Menu Zone for Blu-rays depending on their desire when selecting a Blu-rays but this isn't the easiest method - especially if one has several physical zones.

Please consider adding a Blu-ray Menu tag with the options Default, No, or Yes. Default uses whatever is set in Options -> Video -> Enable Blu-ray Menus. No turns the menus off all the time. Yes turns the menus on all time. This provides some more flexibility for the user regarding which movies should use the Blu-ray menu.

[jmone]

I'd see the settings are similar to other choices (such as resume playback)
- Options : Bluray Menus Off/On/Ask Each Time
- Menu Button During Playback = Stop Playback and Bring up the Main Menu

I'm not sure which of the following I would use but I leaning towards either
- Ask Each Time, or
- Default Current Behaviour (Title Playback), but... if I got the wrong title (say directors commentary) or wanted to select a TV Eps, Alt Ending, View Etras etc, then I'd
- Press Menu Button = Stop Playback --> Menu Appears

[Hendrik]

If you are playing in title mode and press the Menu key, it'll bring up the basic title selection dialog we already have today. I don't see it suddenly re-starting Playback in menu mode, since that would be extremely disruptive and not something you can just easily cancel again by pressing back. Pressing that key accidentally would be extremely frustrating - even more so if we change its behavior.

If you want to switch from title playback to the menu, you would have to stop playback yourself and go back to whatever way we decide to let you select this before playback actually starts. There should be an intentional effort to switch modes, and not something you can hit accidentally.

Maybe we can put an option into the basic title selection dialog to switch to the full menu, will have to check how it works, and if its at a level where this would be possible. But there is still no way back, which is a bit bad still.

First the focus is on getting it working with as many discs as possible, anyway. We'll see about anything else once its in a more presentable state.

[mattkhan]

OK I see. I think using a tag as mojave suggests will certainly cover a lot of cases. Simply making it possible to choose via MCWS whether it plays in one mode or another would be good enough for me if you don't want to clutter up your own UI.

I notice that particles created from a BD still work with the menu option turned on but there is no way (that I could find) to see which stream you're playing as stream info looks like it has been replaced by the menu options in the playback popup menu. Is this shown somewhere? If not, is it possible to add it? The use case being making it easier to create particles from a BD for the content you actually want in your library.

[Hendrik]

The menus take full control of whats playing. There isn't really a good way to export that. Not any priority anyway. Lets focus on playback first. We're not taking away any abilities you've had until now, though.

[mojave]

I tried a few UHD Blu-rays, but menus didn't work.

I noticed that with menus on, most (but not all) Blu-rays defaulted to the stereo soundtrack. Some movies went straight to the menu and some played trailers before getting to the menu. The most disturbing thing was seeing an FBI warning. Never seen that before. 

[Hendrik]

Re: UHD BD, the only two discs I have both use Java menus, so those won't work anyway right now. Might have to acquire more to find one with HDMV menus.

The menus entirely control the stream selection. Its basically a small program that runs. It currently just gets a preferred language. There are some fields to specify the audio capability of the hardware, maybe that influences the pre-selection of multi-channel tracks? Guess I should dig for a disc where this happens and see if that changes anything.

[RoderickGI]

This is good. I have done a little bit of testing with ripped full directory structure Blu-rays, and they work. They work even though some of the pesky introductory streams have been removed from the rip.

I did see some variation between different discs. I will have to test some more, then perhaps document what I saw. However I will note that while a couple of discs enable me to drop back to the Blu-ray menu via an option in the OSD, at least one did not have that option, so I had to stop playback in order to get back to the menu. When viewing Extras, which for me is the primary reason for wanting the Blu-ray menu, I often want to check out one of the included videos, and often only watch a short part of it before wanting to drop back to the extras menu and try something else.

For this reason I would like the Menu button on my MCE remote to always drop back to the Blur-ray menu, preferably at the menu level I just left.

I'll also note that the MCE remote Menu button did nothing at any time. Even with a Blu-ray that skipped the menu and played the title immediately, the menu button didn't cause any title selection dialogue to display.

I will also try to find time to compare functionality to PowerDVD. Particularly what it does with the menu button.

Thanks for this Hendrik.

[Hendrik]

I'm not sure if the MCE menu button is always automatically hooked up. Maybe you need to go into the remote control dialog and "learn" the button and map it to the "DVD Menu" functionality. I remember having done that in the past. I'm not sure why the menu button would be special though, that part is really not my area.

For testing, both the possible menu buttons are available in the right-click menu. I would think that the Disc Menu button should do what you want it to do (although ultimately thats up to how the disc has the menu organized)

[RoderickGI]

I'm pretty sure my MCE menu button still works fine with DVDs, opening the DVD menu as expected. But I haven't done that for a while, so perhaps I should check. Who watches DVDs these days?! 

[Hendrik]

My current MCE remote doesn't even have a menu button. My old Harmony had one, but that one broke a year ago - and being a Harmony I had to manually map the button anyway. Oh well.

[RoderickGI]

I am using a Harmony remote which has a "Menu" but that performs exactly the same function as the "DVD Menu" button on my Inteset INT412 Standard MCE remote. I didn't need to learn the button or do any other setup in MC to make it work.

The Inteset INT412 Standard MCE remote has four predefined function buttons for "Recorded TV", "Live TV", "Guide", and "DVD Menu", the latter showing a small optical disc image. I thought all MCE Remotes had those buttons.

Yep, even the old HP MCE Remote that JRiver used to sell has a "DVD Menu" button alongside the other three.

I'll test the Blu-ray menu functionality with Inteset as well... when I get time.

[Hendrik]

There is still a lot of work to do here anyway, we just wanted to share what was working already.

[Hendrik]

The next build (101) will have the first version of BD-J support. I added some general information about Java into the first post. BD-J menus don't work quite as nicely as the HDMV menus yet, but they are usable - albeit sometimes a bit slow (thats Java for you). The BD-J discs I developed with so far also don't seem to like the mouse at all, only keyboard/remote navigation worked.

[jmone]

Did a quick run through about 200 discs on V100: Overall it works and works very well!.  Comments as follows:
- I'm guessing that less than 30% had a functioning HDMV menu (vs BD-J or No Menu at all either Main or Pop-Up) (note: all of my UHD are BD-J)
- HDMV menu is very very responsive, works well with KB and Mouse (could not test the RC as the Fam were watching)
- The default audio stream is not always the "Best", several older titles selected the 5.1 DD not the Uncompressed stream..but..
- Swapping Audio Streams using the BD Menu drops the Audio.  It appears that the filter graph is not rebuilt for the selected Audio Stream
- You lose ability in MC OSD to select Title, Stream, Subs, Audio, Chapters
- The MC OSD only has an option to bring up the BD Menu but not the Pop Up Menu that in many cases controls the selection of audio and sub streams (but the right click option exists).
- I also saw the odd weirdness where it would play the intro clips but then fail... but would work the 2nd time.... Or the menu would stop responding, or the item selection would not work.  Not sure about this one as i can not put my finger on what it is.

I highly recommend that the option in MC is - On / Off / Ask (not just On/Off).  I would use "Ask".

Overall - It works and works well!  Looking forward to seeing how BD-J goes!

Well Done....

[Hendrik]

There is fixes in the next build for stream switching not working and various other playback failures. I'm slowly testing all the discs I have here, but since they are actual optical discs and not whole-disc rips, it takes a bit of extra effort.
Since its still under very active development, there won't be accurate changelogs for a while, but anything I find and reproduce on any disc I have, I fix.

[Hendrik]

I checked the stream selection logic on some discs where Lossless is not preferred - and according to the Blu-ray spec if the Menu does not specify a preferred stream, the first in the stream list is supposed to be used - which in this case is whats happening. So it seems to be working as expected given the Blu-ray specification, as handled by libbluray. I would expect another Blu-ray player to make the same selection.

[jmone]

Got it.  I was comparing it to LAV Logic.  All my discs are full structure rips so it is pretty quick to check over them.

[jmone]

Any chance of a new build for the weekend to test?

[JimH]

Doubtful at this point. Possibly.

[jmone]

Thanks!

[jmone]

Testing on v101:
- Menu Navigation looks pretty responsive to me!  Background Video and Audio worked well (though the occasional background video looks a bit juddery on the odd disc).
- Got some MC Unresponsiveness after stopping playback (can be from a few seconds to 30 seconds)
- UHD BD-J : Does not work but you get a nice msg saying so now
- Blu-ray Pure Audio Discs work
- Stream switching works (audio is not dropped)
- Subtitles can be left on the screen when going from the movie back to the Menu
- A few disc did not work at all (Breaking Bad S4/D1, D2, D3 - all others in the series worked, these ones just sit there with a black screen, no audio and the top progress bar says "0:00 - Live")
- Others (like Game of Thrones, the Walking Dead S4 onwards) would initially not play after a splash screen (or an initial black sequence) then they would stall like the above.... but after restarting MC they were OK.  It's almost like MC is holding onto something from the previous playback that is preventing these discs from playing.
- A got a few discs when the Menu asked is I wanted to resume playback, but this did not work (just stayed on the menu - Fargo)

Navigation/Control - Some comments about the interaction between the BD Menus and MC's traditional way of Controlling Media during playback (this testing is just on a KB/Mouse combo - will test a RC / TheaterView setup next):
- Looks like the Java App takes over the arrows keys as they do not bring up the MC OSD Menu (BD-J) but may or may not bring up a BD-J sub menu or position type bar pending on the disc (most do nothing).  You still get Arrow Keys bringing up the MC OSD Menu with HDMV authored discs
- Pause/Play Works (also brings up the MC OSD at the bottom)
- Chapter Previous/Next: I'm not sure how (or if you can) see or jump chapters without using the BD Menu.
- Seeking has some issues using either the MC Top GUI or Mouse scroll wheel.  A seek will move to that point (as a RWD/FFD not a jump) though often when you get to that point the playback will then not start properly (you end up with a Black Screen/No Audio while playback appears to be progressing). When it works the playback is juddery for a few seconds.  I also get a nice Java screen popping up showing where you are going on some discs.

Looks very good so far... Now to do some testing on an HTPC with RC.

[jmone]

I'm getting a playback failed on my HTPC (Library Server Client).  I've installed Java, rebooted etc but still get the error.  Is there anything special about Library Server Clients... or ?

0022187: 5196: Playback: DShowVideoGraph::ConnectSourceAndSplitterBlurayMenu: Failed to open file.

Log attached.

[JimH]

This feature may not be released in MC23, so please keep it quiet for now.

[jmone]

I guess this and official UHD Support would make good new MC24 features.

[jmone]

Can't work this one out.  2 x PC's, Menus just fine.  2 x HTPC (connected via AVR, 4K) I get the Failed to Open File error on all discs (HDMV, BD-J even the same msg on UHD).  Suggestions?

[jmone]

While I wait to test on an HTPC, I was thinking about the options for enabling the BD Menu.  It is clear that BD Menu effectively replace the MC Menu and turn MC into a CE BD Player.  Both the MC and BD Menu have their own advantages, and I would like to use both at times. 

I "think" I would like the following options as follows in the settings:
- On: Always use this feature
- Off: Never use this feature
- Ask: On playback ask if you want to use this feature

Swap Menu during Playback:  I'd also like to be able to have the ability during playback to jump to the BD Menu and back again.  I don't mind that it would restart playback.  eg, Playback is using MC Menu, but add an option during playback (OSD and Right Click Menu) to re-launch playback for this disc in BD Menu mode.  This would let a user play a disc as we currently do but if something is not right (or you want to access some other content, other eps, alt endings etc) you can restart it with the BD Menu.  The hard bit is I'm not sure how you would bring up the option to go from a BD-J Menu back to the MC Menu when the BD-J has control of the navigation keys!

Playback Info:  We already have a field that holds users preferences for how to play an item (including streams etc).  It could also be used for tagging for what Menu System to use.

[Hendrik]

I'm getting a playback failed on my HTPC (Library Server Client).  I've installed Java, rebooted etc but still get the error.  Is there anything special about Library Server Clients... or ?

Looks to me like libbluray is not being found or loaded properly. Its not even getting to the point where it would print the path of the Blu-ray being opened, and the only check before that is if libbluray and ffmpeg loaded properly.

It looks like the Blu-ray component isn't currently flagging ffmpeg/avcodec for installation, so if you don't have it yet from another use, it might just fail.
Usually it would already be installed from a file import, but I guess clients might not have it.

[jmone]

What do you suggest I need to do (note both these HTPC play BD just fine when the BD Menu is OFF)?

[Hendrik]

Just do something else that requires avcodec to be installed, convert a video, import a video, something like that.

[jmone]

Thanks - that worked (it did need to download and install avcodec).

On Navigation with the RC, the biggest comment I would have is that at present it can be unintuitive and/or not consistent what the buttons do when in different menus (MC, HDMV, BD-J).  I'm happy to make a comparison table if it is helpful of what each MCE Button Cmd does with each of the menu types.  Given it is under active development please let me know if this is helpful at this stage, later on, or not at all. 

One piece of good news is that the "Menu" button always seems to be grabbed by MC.  At present it brings up a "Would you like to play the Disc Currently in your Drive" diag box, but it would be much better if it brought up the MC Menu OSD (like the Up Arrow now does), from which you could then also have the option to launch the BD Main or Popup Menu.

Other things I noticed (primary with BD-J menus)
- Info : Brings up the MC OSD with some limited Info that you cycle through (can't interact with playback, it's just info)
- Exit, Back, and Guide :  All seem to do the same think (takes you back to TheaterView with the video paused in the background
- Pause : Pause/Unpauses the Video (and shows the MC OSD playback position)
- Play : does nothing (this is always confusing for my fam.  Play should unpause if paused, and start playing if in FFW/RWD)
- FFD/RWD : does as you expect but it is hard to stop it to make it play (as per the above, Play need to work)
- Skip FWD/Back : Back works (goes back to the begining), Skip FWD does not work (no chapter marks is the issue)
- Ch Up / Down : Seems to be the same as Skip FWD/Back
- Nav Keys (Left, Right, Up, Down, OK) : don't do anything during playback but do control the BD Menu when it is viable
- Stop : Works as expected

[Hendrik]

The menu really only catches the arrow keys and "enter" and equivalents, plus the Menu key. All others should be about the same as any other playback. Not sure what can be unintuitive about the arrow keys to navigate around in a visual menu?
I'm going to see if I can properly detect if a BD-J menu is actually showing so the arrow keys don't get caught during playback when they shouldn't, but otherwise it should already be quite the same between HDMV and BD-J.

I fixed the Menu button on Library Clients, it wasn't properly detecting that it was playing a Blu-ray already when using a remote library, in which case it asks that instead of activating the menu as it should.

[jmone]

Updated the following...

Here is how it looks in my testing in V101.  Most Buttons and Keys are the Same regardless of the menu used, with the items to note being:
- As there are no Chapters Exposed when using BD Menu you can not skip back and forward to these points
- BD-J Menu seems to capture the Nav, OK/Enter, and Play Keys so these may or may not do anything pending what the BD-J Menu wants to do.  Mostly nothing happens but sometimes you get the Pop-Up menu with the Up Arrow key
- When doing a FFW or RWD in a BD-J disc to stop it you have to hit "Pause" as "Play" seems to be captured by the BD-J menu.

I fixed the Menu button on Library Clients, it wasn't properly detecting that it was playing a Blu-ray already when using a remote library, in which case it asks that instead of activating the menu as it should.

Thanks - Look forward to testing. Just so I don't lose my notes, On V101....

Code: [Select]

The "Menu Button" is NOT captured and works the same with all all.  Oddly, when you press "Menu" you get a MC OSD Pop Up asking if you want to play a disc in the drive (even if there is not one).  If you say no it goes back to the movie.  This button would be ideal to use to bring up the MC OSD Menu (eg like the Up Arrow does not in MC and HDMV mode) as it would also work with BD-J Menu & it makes sense to have the "Menu" button bring up the MC Menu.  Also I think "Menu" button is a pretty good choice for bringing up the MC Menu and then within that have an option for both the BD Menu (as is now) and the BD Popup Menu (new)

Not sure what can be unintuitive about the arrow keys to navigate around in a visual menu?

Yup the arrow keys work well in all menus for nav.  The unintuitive part is just when behaviour is different on some discs (eg Up Arrow will not bring up the menu on BD-J, or chapter nav is not available).

Anyway, more comments on how it looks and feels but it is amazing how well it already works!  Well Done!

[jmone]

Another issue I have to dig into is that on my HTPC, when using BD-J I get lots of judder.  One thing I noticed is that the madVR present queue drops from the default of 8 to just 2 when playing BD-J discs but seems to stay at 8 with BD Menu OFF or HDMV Menus though I'm not sure if this is the issue or not.  It is currently unwatchable and I suspect is also causing some issues when testing Navigation in this mode (was getting stalls and hangs in MC).  Will retest again once I can workout how to fix the judder.

Note: I've toggled a few madVR options but it does not help.  Any ideas why BD-J discs would judder?

Edit - Tested on my other HTPC and same thing.

FYI - quick test in RO Std.  Judder was gone on BD-J and navigation was fine (no stalls and hangs).

Note: I'm testing using the latest LAV Nightly and madVR (not the MC packaged versions)

[jmone]

Nothing to see here, just a Scratch Pad of Stuff for me to (re)test on the next version (so I don't forget)
- Missing Menu items / colours (retest 13 Hours, '71, Transformers)
- Interaction with "resume playback" (retest on Fargo)
- ROHQ vs RO
- Fast Nav causing issues
- Auto display rate changer (some intro clips are different fps than main movie)
- Retest discs (Breaking Bad S4/D1, D2, D3 - black screen, no audio and the top progress bar says "0:00 - Live")
- Retest discs (Game of Thrones, the Walking Dead S4 onwards)
- Check Play key on BD-J discs (I think it sometimes work for Play/Pause but not when stopping FFD/RWD)
- Retest Menu button on Library Server clients
- 28 Weeks Later (example of only a pop up menu)

[jmone]

Sometimes in ROHQ, you can not see what is the highlighted menu item (but it is fine in RO).  Example attached is from 13 Hours: "The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi" (BD-J)

[jmone]

Sometimes in ROHQ, you can not see the menu items at all (but it is fine in RO).  Example attached is from '71 (BD-J)

[Hendrik]

One thing I noticed is that the madVR present queue drops from the default of 8 to just 2 when playing BD-J discs but seems to stay at 8 with BD Menu OFF or HDMV Menus though I'm not sure if this is the issue or not.

madVR will lower the queues when you use an interactive menu, so the interaction has a lower latency. This suffers from the same issue as the menu keys, ie. BD-J is always considered active, which is rather annoying.

[jmone]

Right, I could see that.  As playback of the disc progressed the present queue dropped from 8 to 2 as it hit the BD-J part (and stays there).  If that is the case how on earth can we got judder free playback on BD-J discs with madVR (I even dropped the algos to low settings and had processing times of just a few m/sec but it still did not help).