Topic: New Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ (Read 5410 times)

JimH · « **on:** March 22, 2018, 05:28:19 pm »

We've taken a look at the newest Raspberry Pi. I'll call it the B Plus. Here's what we've found so far.

Bob got the IdPi software working on it. We're using the Stretch kernel that they recommend.

It works, but we think there is a bug in the network software. So for now, we're not going to ship any IdPi's for it. We'll wait until the bug is fixed.

It's about 12% faster on the JRiver benchmark. I believe it was 930.

astromo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2018, 09:13:39 am »

Thanks for the intel Jim.

I'll be looking out for updates on this point (recently bought a 3 B+ and have got an IdPi µSD on the way). I trust that you'll pass through further developments as they transpire. I'd expect that there will be a fair push to get the 3 B+ fully functional from an OS perspective. The needs of the world will prioritise resolution I'd expect.

mwillems · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2018, 05:28:10 pm »

Jim: out of curiosity what bug did you all hit in the network stack? I recently moved all my pis up to stretch and have been having a devil of a time with network stability, but this is on an original Pi 3. I wonder if there's just an issue with the Stretch kernel for Pi's in general.

Hendrik · « **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2018, 05:30:44 pm »

I installed a fresh 3 B+ with a fresh Stretch and didn't notice issues, fwiw.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2018, 05:33:11 pm »

The problem turned out to be with wicd, the network manager, and Bob thinks he found a way around it.

When the system tried to take the network interface down, something crashed.

mwillems · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2018, 05:36:38 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on March 27, 2018, 05:30:44 pm

I installed a fresh 3 B+ with a fresh Stretch and didn't notice issues, fwiw.

It was worth a shot

I had a pair of pis running with amp+ hats that were running fairly stable on Jessie (they'd run fine for weeks or months at a time). After upgrading them to Stretch they both run for a bit (a day or two at the most) and then lock up completely. I can force a lock up by sending lots and lots of network traffic their way. I have to unplug them to get them to reboot (no response to input, no magic sysrq keys), and there's never anything in the journal after they come back. I do some custom configuration, so I may have to try going back to basics to see what I can learn, or hook up a monitor and then trigger a crash in the hope the kernel panic actually shows a dump.

bob · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2018, 09:29:41 am »

There is a bug in the 78xx ethernet driver concerning PHY initialization which I fixed with the help of some clues found online. BTW this bug exists in both the current and development kernels.
I updated a bunch of packages, the kernel, hardware firmware, etc.
In general the IdPi firmware is ready for the 3B+ but I'm working on one longstanding issue I'd like to clear up before releasing it.

astromo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2018, 12:48:33 am »

Quote from: bob on March 28, 2018, 09:29:41 am

There is a bug in the 78xx ethernet driver concerning PHY initialization which I fixed with the help of some clues found online. BTW this bug exists in both the current and development kernels.
I updated a bunch of packages, the kernel, hardware firmware, etc.
In general the IdPi firmware is ready for the 3B+ but I'm working on one longstanding issue I'd like to clear up before releasing it.

I like it when I read/hear this sort of thoroughness. Standing by for the update when you get it all sorted.

maxxzaxx · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2018, 05:50:56 pm »

Dear Sir,
I am planning to buy IdPi $99(fully baked) for raspberry pi 3 B+ model. I will use this for the sole purpose of playing back sacd iso. I have a large collection of sacd iso's and I don't want to convert them to flac as it will take up more storage space. I will be using a Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 USB DAC to playback multichannel iso sacd's.. My only concern is would the playback be smooth with this new B+ model? Would the IdPi run on other single-board computers such as Asus Tinkerboard, Odroid etc? Please let me know so I can purchase with peace of mind.
Thanks

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2018, 06:07:09 pm »

I'm not sure ISO will work with the Raspberry Pi. Especially multichannel.

The NUC would have a better chance, but I'm not sure of that.

astromo · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2018, 06:26:54 pm »

Quote from: maxxzaxx on May 16, 2018, 05:50:56 pm

I am planning to buy IdPi $99(fully baked) for raspberry pi 3 B+ model.

At the moment, the 3B+ for output is in a state of flux:
Stability Problems with B+
From that thread, you can see that one of the devs (bob) is working through the issues.

Regarding SACD isos, I can't offer comment. I work with Redbook FLAC files and don't have a single SACD, so can't test for you.

Regarding your choice of DAC, I would offer caution. I had a quick look at its website:
http://m.creative.com/au/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x-fi-surround-5-1-pro
Under the advertised specs I see compatibility with Windows but not Linux. The Id or IdPi is based on Debian - a Linux distro.

I suggest you check on the DAC's compatibility. Linux is generally very accommodating and normally doesn't need separate drivers but you wouldn't want to be the exception. You could check with Creative's tech support (as one avenue for investigation).

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** May 16, 2018, 06:41:14 pm »

Quote from: astromo on May 16, 2018, 06:26:54 pm

At the moment, the 3B+ for output is in a state of flux:
Stability Problems with B+
From that thread, you can see that one of the devs (bob) is working through the issues.

At least some of those are issues with the B+. Bob fixed a bug in Wicd. They just released new software. It's a work in progress right now.

astromo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2018, 07:15:15 am »

Quote from: JimH on May 16, 2018, 06:41:14 pm

At least some of those are issues with the B+. Bob fixed a bug in Wicd. They just released new software. It's a work in progress right now.

Nice work bob ... keep it going. Thanks for your efforts.

maxxzaxx · « **Reply #13 on:** June 15, 2018, 02:52:26 am »

Hi Astromo and Bob,
I have become obsessed with multichannel and would request you to kindly give me feedback on the foll0wing:
1. X6000K-7.1CH Expansion Board http://www.suptronics.com/xseries.html its compatibility with IdPi
2. Stability of B+ when Multichannel Flacs are played?
3. I could not find the Creative Labs Support Forum!!

Thanks in advance!

astromo · « **Reply #14 on:** June 15, 2018, 08:19:15 am »

Quote from: maxxzaxx on June 15, 2018, 02:52:26 am

Hi Astromo and Bob,
I have become obsessed with multichannel and would request you to kindly give me feedback on the foll0wing:
1. X6000K-7.1CH Expansion Board http://www.suptronics.com/xseries.html its compatibility with IdPi
2. Stability of B+ when Multichannel Flacs are played?
3. I could not find the Creative Labs Support Forum!!

Thanks in advance!

1. Sorry, my system is seriously 2ch. The biggest extension I've made into multichannel is adding a sub-woofer to my No. 2 listening rig. I'm a user. bob is the dev. If anyone can answer you on this point, he can ... or at least hazard a guess.

2. From the website, http://www.suptronics.com/miniPCkits/x6000-7.1ch.html, the 3B+ is not listed in the spec sheet as a model that works with that expansion board. One to check out with suptronics. I'd suggest you get that locked down before getting JRiver involved too deeply because you could be dealing with a vapour-ware situation. Check Interact for known, functional Pi HATs ... from what I know the HiFiBerry gear works (I can vouch personally that the Digi+ Pro and Dac+ Pro work with the IdPi for stereo playback). Based on this, the Pi2Design 502DAC should also work (in stereo) because it's designed to be recognised as a HiFiBerry DAC+ (from what I've read)... as always, tread carefully and make sure of your intel before clicking the "buy" button.

3. I'm guessing that's because one doesn't exist at Interact .. ?

Cheers ..

LawshrinkMD · « **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2018, 09:07:16 am »

I am very curious about upgrading to the 3B+. I read earlier that it was a 12% benchmark increase in speed. I still have dropouts at times playing hires and SACD iso material. Is there a noticeable improvement in speed and reliability? Also, I have the metal Hifi Berry case for my Digi+ Pro, and I recall seeing somewhere that the 3B+ is slightly different sized than the 3B. Does anyone have experience with these cases? I will email HFi Berry as well.

I use my 3B to play sacd iso files, and it works. You have to downconvert to 24/88.2 or 24/176.4, and it usually works ok. I still get stuttering and dropouts at times, not sure why. I've even played some DSD128 material, but that was less reliable. Sometimes it will work great for an album, and then one song will keep dropping out.

I am really tempted to upgrade to the 3B+, as I hope that a 12% speed increase will make the difference in smoothing out the playback. I have used both wired and wireless connections, and I still get these troubles. When I first set up the system I played with every setting I could find, increasing buffer sizes, etc. I've been away from the Raspberry Pi for a while, and I see I need to mail my card in to upgrade to MC24. Maybe that will also fix some problems??

bob · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2018, 09:30:31 am »

Quote from: LawshrinkMD on August 10, 2018, 09:07:16 am

I am very curious about upgrading to the 3B+. I read earlier that it was a 12% benchmark increase in speed. I still have dropouts at times playing hires and SACD iso material. Is there a noticeable improvement in speed and reliability? Also, I have the metal Hifi Berry case for my Digi+ Pro, and I recall seeing somewhere that the 3B+ is slightly different sized than the 3B. Does anyone have experience with these cases? I will email HFi Berry as well.

I use my 3B to play sacd iso files, and it works. You have to downconvert to 24/88.2 or 24/176.4, and it usually works ok. I still get stuttering and dropouts at times, not sure why. I've even played some DSD128 material, but that was less reliable. Sometimes it will work great for an album, and then one song will keep dropping out.

I am really tempted to upgrade to the 3B+, as I hope that a 12% speed increase will make the difference in smoothing out the playback. I have used both wired and wireless connections, and I still get these troubles. When I first set up the system I played with every setting I could find, increasing buffer sizes, etc. I've been away from the Raspberry Pi for a while, and I see I need to mail my card in to upgrade to MC24. Maybe that will also fix some problems??

How are the files getting to the IdPi?
Attached hard drive?
Pushed vi DLNA?
Network share?

Are you using Ethernet or Wireless on the IdPi?

The RPi has a limited amount of I/O bandwidth and how it's distributed matters.

The MC24 version definitely fixes some issues but the general I/O bandwidth though hasn't changed.

The B+ does have increased I/O bandwidth capability.

LawshrinkMD · « **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2018, 11:04:31 am »

I've tried gigabit ethernet as well as 2.4 wireless, but had similar issues. Files are on a Netgear ReadyNAS with dual wired connection straight into the router (not that music content needs dual gigabit connections!). I am not using DLNA, the IdPi is directly accessing the files on the NAS.

Do you think everything would work better by using my home computer running MC to do all the decoding and then just play it to the RPi? I was hoping to use the RPi on its own, and I haven't tried that yet.

bob · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2018, 01:25:37 pm »

Quote from: LawshrinkMD on August 10, 2018, 11:04:31 am

I've tried gigabit ethernet as well as 2.4 wireless, but had similar issues. Files are on a Netgear ReadyNAS with dual wired connection straight into the router (not that music content needs dual gigabit connections!). I am not using DLNA, the IdPi is directly accessing the files on the NAS.

Do you think everything would work better by using my home computer running MC to do all the decoding and then just play it to the RPi? I was hoping to use the RPi on its own, and I haven't tried that yet.

It would probably work better to let your home computer do the conversion, it's pretty intensive.

I will setup a test here though.

Is any of the material MultiChannel?

LawshrinkMD · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2018, 01:32:04 pm »

No multichannel, just stereo. I have a large library, I forget, 50,000 tracks or so, I wonder if that also places additional overhead on the RPi or not.

I just heard back from Daniel at HiFi Berry, and he said the metal case should fit the B+ no problem. He commented that using local attached storage can lead to problems with music playback.

I have my main HTPC running MC24 and feeding a PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC (through the amazing PS Audio LAN rover) in another room, and pulling the music files off the same NAS, and it all works flawlessly. I use the Rpi3B and Digi+Pro connected to a home theater receiver in another room.

bob · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2018, 04:40:12 pm »

Quote from: LawshrinkMD on August 10, 2018, 01:32:04 pm

No multichannel, just stereo. I have a large library, I forget, 50,000 tracks or so, I wonder if that also places additional overhead on the RPi or not.

I just heard back from Daniel at HiFi Berry, and he said the metal case should fit the B+ no problem. He commented that using local attached storage can lead to problems with music playback.

I have my main HTPC running MC24 and feeding a PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC (through the amazing PS Audio LAN rover) in another room, and pulling the music files off the same NAS, and it all works flawlessly. I use the Rpi3B and Digi+Pro connected to a home theater receiver in another room.

I'm playing sacd from a QNAP on a IdPi 3b+ on the latest MC build through the built in audio and wired. So far no dropouts and the load average is pretty reasonable around 1.6.

I'd think the 3b would still be OK with this, I can try the hifiberry next week...

LawshrinkMD · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2018, 09:00:08 pm »

I’m playing The 3 Sounds, Grooving Hard Live at the Penthouse in 11289 Kpbs and down converting it to 176K and it’s working great. My new little 3B+, HiFiberry digi+ pro, and MC24 is chugging along, no stops or stuttering so far. Playing wired off the house network, Netgear ReadyNAS. Clean, gapless transitions between tracks, and the play decoded from memory seems to be working so far. I still haven’t tried reproducing some of the old problems my old receiver DAC would have when changing content with different bitrates, but we’ll save that for another night.

bob · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2018, 09:08:29 am »

It looks like the 3B (not +) is a bit short of power to play SACD through the HiFiberry.

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Author Topic: New Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ (Read 5410 times)