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[MikeyFresh]

I am having quite a few different problems with MC 24 on Id Pi using the new 3b+ board.

In short, it isn't stable, I can't even get through 10 songs on a random playlist before it freezes, same behavior on two different renderer/endpoints.

The build of thumbnails also froze.

Froze on the pressing of "OK" after accessing the configure DLNA server tab, that window stays superimposed though a 98 did reboot the system that time.

JRemote also experienced freezing when connected, the thumbnails were incomplete there. After deleting the server and trying to reinstall it, JRemote now refuses that access key and claims not to find the server at all on the IP that I know it has been issued.

I know how to use this program, starting with MC19 on Windows, MC20 on my Mac, and then MC22 on Id Pi.

MC24 on Id Pi is not stable when used on the new 3b+ board. Is there anything I should try before requesting a return authorization/refund?

PS - why is this still on Jessie and not Stretch? Officially the 3b+ board requires Stretch, no?

[JimH]

Are you using it as a renderer?  Or server?  Or both?

Are you playing media that is on it or on an attached drive? 

Please describe your setup in some detail.

We're not seeing general problems like this.  I use the B+ at home.

[MikeyFresh]

Are you using it as a renderer?  Or server?  Or both?

Are you playing media that is on it or on an attached drive? 

Please describe your setup in some detail.

We're not seeing general problems like this.  I use the B+ at home.

I use it as a server only, just as I did MC22 on Id Pi.

The media is on an attached USB HDD, same set-up as previously with MC22 on Id Pi.

The indexing of tracks went fast, seemingly much faster than on the older Pi3b board, however the building of thumbnails took forever and bombed the first time, unit froze.

Two different Renderers are showing the same type of issues, however after one last Id Pi reboot late last night, I did get a random playlist launched and it was still playing this morning when I left for work.

I also managed to get JRemote to accept that very same Access Key and Authentication it was rejecting, though I didn't actually try to control anything, just got it to recognize the server as step one and then retired to bed.

So apparently some progress there, but for 2 days prior to this I've had no luck in getting any playlist to run for even 10 tracks without stalling. Same Renderer and external USB DAC in use as with the MC22 on Id Pi/RPi3b.

[bob]

I use it as a server only, just as I did MC22 on Id Pi.

The media is on an attached USB HDD, same set-up as previously with MC22 on Id Pi.

The indexing of tracks went fast, seemingly much faster than on the older Pi3b board, however the building of thumbnails took forever and bombed the first time, unit froze.

Two different Renderers are showing the same type of issues, however after one last Id Pi reboot late last night, I did get a random playlist launched and it was still playing this morning when I left for work.

I also managed to get JRemote to accept that very same Access Key and Authentication it was rejecting, though I didn't actually try to control anything, just got it to recognize the server as step one and then retired to bed.

So apparently some progress there, but for 2 days prior to this I've had no luck in getting any playlist to run for even 10 tracks without stalling. Same Renderer and external USB DAC in use as with the MC22 on Id Pi/RPi3b.

The B+ requires more power than the B, are you certain you have enough power for that and the USB drive?
Are you powering the USB drive separately?

It's also possible you have a bad B+ board, the first one we got here seems to have some similar issues when just running on the stock stretch distro but all of the others have been working fine.

We are using a base of jessie for the B+ with some newer pieces (i.e. the kernel, boot, etc) to support the B+ instead of stretch.
The goal is simplicity and stability, not having the latest distro base.

[JimH]

Please read about power requirements for USB drives on the RPi official site.  Here, for example:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49289

You must use external power.

[MikeyFresh]

The B+ requires more power than the B, are you certain you have enough power for that and the USB drive?
Are you powering the USB drive separately?

It's also possible you have a bad B+ board, the first one we got here seems to have some similar issues when just running on the stock stretch distro but all of the others have been working fine.

We are using a base of jessie for the B+ with some newer pieces (i.e. the kernel, boot, etc) to support the B+ instead of stretch.
The goal is simplicity and stability, not having the latest distro base.

Yes I'm using a 3 amp power supply to juice the 3b+, and that in turn connects to a powered USB hub, a Vaunix Lab Brick that uses a 24 watt power supply. No other USB devices are connected to that hub except the HDD.

So the HDD is being properly powered, and the 3b+ board should also have plenty of juice as there is only a tiny 2.4 GHz wireless keyboard/mouse combo transmitter connected directly to the 3b+, and that keyboard/mouse combo is largely not in use/off.

The above is the exact same set-up as what was connected to the Id Pi MC22 server I had previously run on the older 3b board. Neither the 3b or 3b+ board exhibits the lightning bolt symbol at boot (or otherwise) which would be a telltale sign of having under-powered the unit.

WiFi is not in use, Ethernet only, and HDMI out is connected to a monitor.

[JimH]

Make sure all your thumbnails are built.  You can do that in Options.

[astromo]

I'm getting similar experience to MikeyFresh. The IdPi referred to below has the following Version/Build detail:
   Id:24.0.4 MC:24.0.25 Engen:1.0.69

Today, I just got a 5.1V 2.5A official Raspberry Pi Foundation OEM power supply, noted as being suitable to power the RPi 3B+. I got an unfriendly response on screen (refer 1st pic) with the lightning bolt (undervoltage indicator), when I booted the 3B+ IdPi.

I also took delivery of a USB Power Meter:
  https://www.adafruit.com/product/2690
with claimed specs of:
Specifications:
    USB 1.x and 2.x - all data speeds. Does not have USB v3 pins so USB v3 connections will automatically downgrade to v2
    Working Range: 0~3A, 3.7~13VDC
    Resolution: 10mV / 10mA

I swapped to the Logitech PSU that I've got that's rated to 5.1V / 2.0A as noted here:
  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115740.msg800304.html#msg800304
because it allows me to get an easy read on voltage and current (USB-A M-F connections on the Adafruit OLED V-I USB meter) and I know that the PSU works with an IdPi on a 3B running a Digi+ Pro or a DAC+ Pro.

Firing up the 3B+ IdPi with the Logitech PSU gives me the 2nd pic - where the current draw maxes out at 0.17A at 4.98V. It just flat lines on that low current draw and the indicator lights stay red and do a repetitive cycle from blink to solid. Note that the IdPi is a bare unit without ancillaries hanging off it, e.g. HATs, Z-wave sticks or USB drives. The screen displays the same splash screen with lightning bolt as referred to previously.

Using an instance of Volumio to test the bare 3B+ (refer 3rd pic), the 3B+ comes to life, boots and stabilises to draw 0.51A at 5.00V. I did this to confirm that the 3B+ RPi hadn't been fried by static or some such disaster and thereby rule out that possibility from the troubleshooting list.

From previous tests, I can serve audio from MC to Volumio as a renderer and it functioned happily with no protest and was carry a HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro as well. I haven't got V-I info but if required that can be done.

Finally, I moved the IdPi card back to my 3B setup that includes, and it was powering, an Aeotec Z-wave stick and a Digi+ Pro HAT (refer 4th pic). In this case the IdPi idles along once it has booted up to draw 0.33A at 4.94V. Note the IdPi wasn't serving audio at the time but I know it can handle the associated load (whatever it is).

... and that's about it.

Final point - If I had suitable adapters, I'd check the OEM PSU and the iFi PSU (note this PSU hasn't been able to motivate a 3B+ IdPi either, although that test was done with an earlier build) that I've got in the house and take V-I readings.

Thoughts, feedback, ideas?

[JimH]

Did you try building all thumbnails before using it for playback?

A new build for the IdPi went up last night.  Did you try updating?  #12 on the menu.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115849.0.html

[astromo]

Did you try building all thumbnails before using it for playback?

I just checked the IdPi's thumbnail status now. Navigated via RDP to Tools > Options > Tree & View > ... Build missing thumbnails and ran a check. Response came back:
  Complete (0:00)
Makes sense because all of the library set up has been done and the IdPi has had days to idle along and get its house in order. That's why I didn't chew through that detail in my write up. I'll try again and report back but I'm not confident.

EDIT: On this point. Checked just now. Latest build. No ancillaries. 1 wired LAN connection. Plugged into a screen via HDMI. Same rainbow splash screen with lightning bolt using the 5.1V 2.5A OEM PSU. I'm getting a red light cycle of 4 slow blinks, 4 fast blinks then solid - rinse / repeat ... 

A new build for the IdPi went up last night.  Did you try updating?  #12 on the menu.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115849.0.html

Yep ... I was on the latest build (refer build details in my post).

[bob]

This is puzzling and odd that we can't seem to reproduce it in a 3b+ IdPi

The one 3b+ board I have that's acting flakey is doing that on a stock stretch distro with nothing going on (no MC running, etc) so it's not much use for testing with MC.

I suppose it's possible there is still a bug in the ethernet driver that they fixed after I found the previous bug in it. It was exposed because of the way wicd brings interfaces up.

What is the manufacturer of the boards that you all have?

[bob]

...
EDIT: On this point. Checked just now. Latest build. No ancillaries. 1 wired LAN connection. Plugged into a screen via HDMI. Same rainbow splash screen with lightning bolt using the 5.1V 2.5A OEM PSU. I'm getting a red light cycle of 4 slow blinks, 4 fast blinks then solid - rinse / repeat ... 

Are you saying that you don't see the same rainbox flash, etc when booting the stock distro?

[astromo]

Are you saying that you don't see the same rainbox flash, etc when booting the stock distro?

Correct.

The unit does a full boot to arrive at the login screen. I was using Volumio that's based on Raspbian/Debian. I can test again with a stock Raspbian image if you like.

[bob]

Correct.

The unit does a full boot to arrive at the login screen. I was using Volumio that's based on Raspbian/Debian. I can test again with a stock Raspbian image if you like.

No need.
Volumio is just raspbian Jessie with tweaks to work on a B+ and a web front end to some standard uPnP packages (I test against it here).
Our boot process should be identical, this suggests that it's not. I'll do some more digging tomorrow.

[astromo]

No need.
Volumio is just raspbian Jessie with tweaks to work on a B+ and a web front end to some standard uPnP packages (I test against it here).
Our boot process should be identical, this suggests that it's not. I'll do some more digging tomorrow.

I have anyway using the latest Raspbian-lite image from the RPi website (Linux raspberry pi 4.14.34-v7+ #1110 SMP). The unit boots and I've just run update / upgrade.

While on the anaemic Logitech PSU, I'm getting the RPi complaining of undervoltage but it does boot without obvious difficulty. During reboot, current peaked at about 0.63A. Currently at idle the V-I meter is reading 4.97V 0.41A.

Hopefully that helps all round.

[astromo]

bob, I don't have time now but maybe it's because the IdPi is configured to boot into gui mode. I'll set the card up in text mode on a 3B and try again.

I'll update you with results when I have them to hand.

[astromo]

Plans changed. I squeezed in the headless mode IdPi 3B+ test and got the same, dodo-esque response.

 I note that when I run the IdPi 3B with Audio HAT and external 1TB spinning HDD, the boot up current peaks to around 0.9A and then idles back to about 0.5A and is apparently content.

Very curious behaviour indeed.

[MikeyFresh]

I manage not to get any under voltage/lightning bolt warnings at boot (or otherwise) with Id Pi on 3b+ by using either of the below two power supplies:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005T9TQDO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This one is rated for 3 amps...

or

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L88M8TE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This one is rated for 3.5 amps...

While the flakiest behavior for Id Pi on 3b+ definitely seemed related to a super lengthy/slow thumbnail build process, I still don't have complete stability, with occasional reboots needed and more than just occasional stoppages of playback for no apparent reason.

I'm using an over spec'd power supply, and also a robust USB hub (Vaunix Lab Brick) for the 2TB hdd, there is no power issue on my build, but playback is interrupted too frequently as compared to the MC 22 Id Pi running on the 3b board.

[MikeyFresh]

This is puzzling and odd that we can't seem to reproduce it in a 3b+ IdPi

The one 3b+ board I have that's acting flakey is doing that on a stock stretch distro with nothing going on (no MC running, etc) so it's not much use for testing with MC.

I suppose it's possible there is still a bug in the ethernet driver that they fixed after I found the previous bug in it. It was exposed because of the way wicd brings interfaces up.

What is the manufacturer of the boards that you all have?

I will check when I get home but I believe both of my 3b+ boards were made in the U.K. however they did come in ever so slightly different sized box/packaging, both official retail packaging but not entirely identical.

[bob]

I'm starting to wonder if this is because of the change in image generation on MC24 ARM.
We enabled a bi-linear interpolation for better images but it requires much more cpu than the nearest pixel method from MC23.
Looking at the threading model for the thumbnail generation, on the ARM it should never be set to other than Low.
I might force that in the compile.
 

[astromo]

What is the manufacturer of the boards that you all have?

Refer the attached pics of the top and bottom of the board that I've been working with. A little blurry but readable.

If you need any of the detail clarified. Let me know.

[astromo]

Update after the latest upgrade to:
   Id:24.0.6 MC:24.0.28 Engen:1.0.69

No improvement with the 3B+ unit. Same behaviour as noted above.

[JimH]

I believe Bob found a solution yesterday, but it will take a few days.

[astromo]

That's great news.

Let's hope there are no unforeseen setbacks that pop up.

[bob]

That's great news.

Let's hope there are no unforeseen setbacks that pop up.

I tested it on all of my units at home yesterday and it seems OK.
It involves a kernel update from last month. Looking through the bug log I saw a couple of possibilities that could explain what some of you are seeing. Note that I still can't reproduce the issue here.
I'll let the update out shortly.

[bob]

I tested it on all of my units at home yesterday and it seems OK.
It involves a kernel update from last month. Looking through the bug log I saw a couple of possibilities that could explain what some of you are seeing. Note that I still can't reproduce the issue here.
I'll let the update out shortly.

It's available now.
It's a very large update and will take several minutes to install.

[astromo]

Cool. Thanks. I'll try it out.

[astromo]

OK  ...   

This is nuts.

Using the previous generation µSD card that was posted to me on 30 March 2018, I've been having all the problems as described. It's been upgraded over the air to the latest version / build with current details as follows:
   Id:24.0.6  MC:24.0.28  Engen:1.0.69

On a Pi 3B - works like a charm. On a Pi 3B+, it's a no go.

I actioned the card return upgrade before the OTA upgrade path had been worked out.

So, with that new card, same licence. Straight out of the box, it works on the 3B AND the 3B+ ...   
... yes, way!


To be specific, here are the upgraded card's version details, as received out of the box:
   Id: 24.0.1  MC: 24.0.15-3  Engen: 1.0.69

Now, it has been upgraded to:
   Id:24.0.6  MC:24.0.28  Engen:1.0.69
and it boots fine using the anaemic Logitech PSU. Currently, it's idling at 4.98 V and 0.24 A. With no ancillaries attached, the current draw peaked to about 0.62 A on a reboot and the voltage didn't drop much below 4.96 V using my you-beaut USB meter with a claimed accuracy of ±0.5%.

Does it surprise anyone that this makes me feel a little bit  ... what the ... ?

I'm running the upgrade now using the Logitech PSU and it has posted similar V-I data as previously reported. I'm getting an undervoltage warning but the IdPi is ticking over and doing its thing without apparent protest so far.

bob, what magic sauce did you cook into the upgrade cards or did Jim sprinkle some pixie dust over them that he borrowed from Tinkerbell? Dunno' but whatever is going on, it doesn't make apparent sense to me.

Regardless, it's worth you being aware of.

[JimH]

We're currently out of pixie dust.

[astromo]

We're currently out of pixie dust.

 

[bob]

Starting to make me wonder if the misbehaving sdcard is marginal on the 3B+

[akessel56]

For what it’s worth I’m not having any of those issues (yet) on 3b+ and new Card from JRiver. I am using Wifi, I’ve also upgraded the build to latest. I have a digital plus hat.

I am having other problems in particular with tags editing. Just acting flaky when trying to edit tags.

Also, and maybe the setting has just changed, but when I reboot, mc 24 doesn’t come back up in same view from when I quit. I like to be in panel view, and on my previous idpi 3b it would always restart in same view even after upgrading to mc24.

Trying to make sure this is easy for my wife to use, and that’s not easy.

Andy

[bob]

For what it’s worth I’m not having any of those issues (yet) on 3b+ and new Card from JRiver. I am using Wifi, I’ve also upgraded the build to latest. I have a digital plus hat.

I am having other problems in particular with tags editing. Just acting flaky when trying to edit tags.

Also, and maybe the setting has just changed, but when I reboot, mc 24 doesn’t come back up in same view from when I quit. I like to be in panel view, and on my previous idpi 3b it would always restart in same view even after upgrading to mc24.

Trying to make sure this is easy for my wife to use, and that’s not easy.

Andy

The startup view is in the options settings under Startup Settings->Startup Interface.