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Author Topic: IPOD SUPPORT  (Read 45709 times)

james330i

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #100 on: June 06, 2003, 07:22:27 am »

Hello,

I downloaded the latest version of MC v9, and everything is working great with the new IPOD.

The only problem i have is transferring playlists.

I've uploaded all the songs the IPOD already, and now I am making new playlists.  I made a custom playlist of 36 songs, and tried to upload to IPOD.

I get asked that there are duplicate files and if I want to overwrite them.  I say yes and so files are transferred but at the end, I get error code - 80 for each song in the playlist.  

Now, I go into the IPOD itself, and the songs on the playlist are now missing and I can't find them anywhere in the IPOD.  The playlist name did transfer but there are no songs.  However, the songs do appear in teh IPOD explorer window in MC, but when I try to play it on the IPOD itself, it does not show up.  

Deleting the song from IPOD and re-uploading it did not work...I had to re-format the entire IPOD drive and put back ALL the songs.

I find that this error also occured when I re-tagged some songs (i.e changes genre) and tried to upload and overwrite the old songs.  It seems to be a problem when MC tries to overwrite current songs in the IPOD.

any advice.

thanks!
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #101 on: June 06, 2003, 08:43:37 am »

James330i,

Error code 80 is a notification that the file already exists on the iPod at the time of transferring the file. When I test here, the code does what I intended it to do, namely first delete the existing file and then replace it with the new file.

Can you give me some specific instructions on how you can repeat this error. Can you do it after your have reformatted the iPod from within MC?

What version of MC do you have installed? If not 9.0.180, please get this version.

From your description, it sounds like you are dropping the playlists on your iPod icon to transfer them. You also may want to explore "Synchronization" by right clicking on the iPod icon.

Steve
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Kurt Young

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Playlists can't be used as alarms
« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2003, 11:07:42 am »

Steve,

There's been a report over at the 'lounge that playlists cannot be used as an alarm when created via MC9.

That is, on the new 2.0 iPod, there's an alarm clock.  You can set it to go off at any time, and can use a beep or a playlist.  If you choose beep, well... the iPod just beeps.  If you use a playlist, the iPod will start playing the playlist at the given time.

Here's a link to the thread.  The user reports that playlists created via MMJB work fine, but playlists created via MC9 don't work at all.
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #103 on: June 06, 2003, 11:10:22 am »

Brad,

The next build of MC will resolve the Rename issue. Renaming will now work correctly.

Kurt,

Thanks for the heads up. I will take a look.
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james330i

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2003, 11:31:24 am »

Quote
James330i,


Can you give me some specific instructions on how you can repeat this error. Can you do it after your have reformatted the iPod from within MC?

What version of MC do you have installed? If not 9.0.180, please get this version.

From your description, it sounds like you are dropping the playlists on your iPod icon to transfer them. You also may want to explore "Synchronization" by right clicking on the iPod icon.

Steve


Steve,

right now, all my songs are in IPOD and there are no playlists.

If i make a playlist, and transfer, it then asks me if I want to overwrite...I say yes, and at the end of transfer, I get error code 80.

This happens as well when I tried to change the genre and some songs and upload back to IPOD.  Error code 80 again.'

I will check the version of IPOD I have.

Thanks for your help
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #105 on: June 06, 2003, 11:49:37 am »

James330i

Quote
I will check the version of IPOD I have.


Do you mean what version of MC? That is what is important. If not 9.0.180, please get it from ..

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1054751628

Also, try deselecting "Overwrite". This should create the playlist for you with the files. The overwrite should work as well. It does for me so if it does not for you we need to figure out what is different.

Steve
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #106 on: June 06, 2003, 01:53:13 pm »

Everyone,

If you want to check out the latest MC go to the first thread at...

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1054935446

Please read through all the information. If you install it, there are a few new iPod things. First, a button on the toolbar which when clicked will automatically send any selected files. The purpose of this is for a really easy way to get files to the iPod. For users who want to control their files by playlist, etc, this is not the best option.

The other new feature is an auto detect for your iPod (for you Kurt :)).  You will notice that the "Auto-Synch" button is removed from the synchronization dialogue. To set Auto-Synch, go to Tools->Options->Device Settings and then look for "Action to perform when media is inserted". IF you set this to "AutoSynch", MC will detect when you plug and unplug your iPod and take you to the Synch dialogue when you connect.

Hanve a good weekend all.

Steve
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #107 on: June 06, 2003, 03:20:16 pm »

Does MC have to be running for this new feature to work?  Or when I plug in, will the Windows Autoplay dialogue come up and offer me an MC autosync as an option?

I can't WAIT to get home and fiddle!  (Since I got my new iPod, I no longer plug in at work... only one proprietary cable.  Sigh)

And just to confirm... we need the 9.1 beta to try these new goodies out?
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JimH

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #108 on: June 06, 2003, 03:57:48 pm »

Hi Kurt,
Be cautious about using 9.1 with iPod right now.  Everything is new (and maybe unstable).

So did you find the link to ipodlounge at the bottom of this page yet?

http://www.musicex.com/mediacenter/handheld.html

That one's for you, bud.  Well, Adam too, and probably some other guys, but I don't remember their names.

It is a GREAT site.  I really enjoy reading the forum.
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sarvis

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Media Core Error
« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2003, 04:46:33 pm »

Media Center 9 worked well for the first week I was interfacing it with my ipod.  However, any time I now attmept to view the Ipod (in my case drive E under the Cd/Dvd/handheld tab, I merely click on it and every time get the response "media core has encountered a problem and needs to close...." when I click more info. I get "AppName: media jukebox.exe AppVer: 9.0.174.0..."  

This morning, I completely reformatted my ipod, through the Apple software and then formatted it for MC9.  Clicking on the drive letter was no problem, I synched my play lists and it put all 5,000 songs on my ipod, however, when it was done synching, instead of the "synch complete...." I got the media core error again without doing anything and get it now every time I click on the ipod drive letter.

I am running Windows XP on a new 30GB ipod.  I have installed the Ipod plugin and have attempted a compete reinstall of MC 9 to remedy the problem, however, have had no luck.  I love the program and would really appreciate any advice as to what may be wrong.

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cct1

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #110 on: June 06, 2003, 06:45:52 pm »

I upgraded to 9.1 and synched--worked flawlessly.  And in the little amount of time I've played with the new build, I must say it looks great...

One thing that would be nice--I love the ipod icon on the toolbar--it would be very cool if, when you clicked on it, the synch screen would come up rather than the "select files to transfer" screen  (I think Kurt may have already mentioned this).
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #111 on: June 06, 2003, 07:02:06 pm »

sarvis:

You're using a relatively old version of MC9.  I suggest you get the latest version.  It will be one of the first 3 threads in the MC9 board here.  The build you want (as of today) is 9.0.180

Don't download version 9.1 (the newest beta).  It was just released today and will be buggy and is just for us expert masochistic types.  ;)

Download and install .180 right over your existing version.  Nothing else to add.

Once you do that, right click the iPod and select "rebuild iPod database".  Your iPod's database is probably corrupted, but I think Steve has nailed this one, I've not had the problem in many builds.

Adam
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dallardice

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2003, 12:21:59 am »

I'm having exactly the same problem as sarvis, and I'm on 9.0.190.

Initially my Ipod synced perfectly - now whenever I insert my ipod, and click on the drive icon under handhelds, Media Core crashes.  I can't right-click to rebuild the database because the crash happens whether I right- or left-click.

The only solution I've found is to Restore the ipod using the Apple updater, restart MediaCenter, format for MC, and Sync everything again.

Then, I burn some more CDs, plug my ipod back in, and it starts crashing again... Oddly, the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon no longer appears in the system tray, so the only way I can eject safely is through MediaCenter, which I can't do if it crashes whenever I right-click....


Media Center 9.0.180 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 1793 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 392 MB, Free - 113 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1145 (xpsp2.021108-1929) / wnaspi32.dll: 4.60 (1021) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1999 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.60 (1021)

Ripping /   Drive E:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Drive F:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive E: _NEC     NR-7800A           Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:16  MaxSpeed:16  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
 Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None
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TimB

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2003, 03:26:20 am »

This is a report on 9.1.194...

I should first add that I don't do frequent iPod updates, usually just dump 1/3 of my music into the iPod (20GB)  and live with that for several weeks.  I'm out of town for a week and decided to live dangerously so I did a full reload with 9.1.

Overall great news, I've got the songs in with just a few problems.  I used both Sync and Queue with good results.  Peak thruput on Queue was 8.90 MB/s.  I used the "Delete Files not in List" option and all went well.

Bug: When I right click the iPod icon after backing out of a Sync I crash into Media Core.

Ques: How the heck does Force Conversion work? :)  I have mostly MP3s with a few APE files.  I wanted to just get the APE into MP3 format for their transition to iPod.  If I do Force Conversion with MP3 as the format MC converts the MP3s as well as the APEs which I def. don't want.

Anyhoo, I'm happy that I got a stable load.

Thanks Steve!

-=Tim=-

Media Center Registered 9.1.194 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2399 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 172 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1145 (xpsp2.021108-1929) / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive E:   Copy mode:ModeSecure   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Drive F:   Copy mode:ModeSecure   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive F: AOPEN    CD-RW CRW4048      Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:12  MaxSpeed:40  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
 Use playback settings: Yes /  Normalization: None
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TimB

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2003, 03:31:30 am »

Quote
I upgraded to 9.1 and synched--worked flawlessly.  And in the little amount of time I've played with the new build, I must say it looks great...

One thing that would be nice--I love the ipod icon on the toolbar--it would be very cool if, when you clicked on it, the synch screen would come up rather than the "select files to transfer" screen  (I think Kurt may have already mentioned this).

Then you're both smart dudes, I agree as I think synch is the preferred method of getting data into the iPod.  :)

-=Tim=-
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sarvis

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Re: Media Core Error
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2003, 10:37:31 am »

Adam -

Thanks for the advice.  Unfortunately, it hasn't resolved my issue.  I upgraded to 9.0.180, at which point I was able to click on the ipod drive and get options including "rebuild ipod database" which I did.  Now when I click on the drive for the ipod I get a window titled "h." with a red "x" in it, when I click on "ok", I get the "media core error" again and MC shuts down.

Any advice would be much appreciated as I like the layout of MC9 and would really like it to work with my ipod.  Thanks.
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2003, 12:11:27 pm »

Kurt,

Yes MC must be running for the autosynch to work.

sarvis,

Can you email me your iTunesDB file which is causing the crash so I can figure out why. If you see a crash after the synch, something is getting written wrong in the database. I can sort it out with your iTunesDb file. --
steve @  jriver.com.  Also, try reformatting the iPod from within MC rather than rebuild. You will lose your files, but hopefully synch will work.

cct1,

This is easy to change, but is a little different than what it was intended for. Let me take a look next week.

dallardice,

My best guess is that the problem is related to synching newly ripped files. I have never been able to replicate this but I have seen reports like yours. I will try to solve it again next week. Do you have MusicMatch installed?

TimB,

Quote

Bug: When I right click the iPod icon after backing out of a Sync I crash into Media Core.


Do you mean if you cancel a synch in the middle?

Quote
If I do Force Conversion with MP3 as the format MC converts the MP3s as well as the APEs


This should only happen if the bitrate you are going to is less than the file's bitrate.  If the selected bitrate is the same or more, conversion should be skipped.

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nyc-ink

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2003, 05:13:36 pm »

For some reason I can't get a playlist (mixes) to showup on my iPod.  I created a new mix today and have synched with that mix checked in my synch list including the other things that are on my ipod.  I synch and everything goes as it should go however I can't see the play list in my ipod screen, it does appear in MC under my ipods playlists, but not on the iPod it's self.  What's going wrong?
thanks,
Brian
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dallardice

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2003, 01:35:18 am »

Quote
dallardice,
Do you have MusicMatch installed?


No, I don't.  Not sure if this helps, but if you think it's to do with ripping: occasionally (one CD in 10) I get an error 'Read track failed. Failed to extract digital audio' and MC won't rip it.  Real Jukebox will rip the CDs without a problem and then I can import into MC.  However, the failed MC rip creates three MP3 files in the relevant artist/album sub-directory of 'My Music', each 625 bytes long.  These are imported into MC too when I import the RJ-ripped files and appear in (Unassigned Artist).  I wonder if the ipod sync fails because of these files?  Deleting the files from the HD and MC doesn't help, but perhaps there's some corruption the first time I try to sync when those files are present.  If I get a chance today, I'll experiment with that further, but do you think that's possible?

By the way, love Media Center: it is so many head and shoulders above Real Jukebox!
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #119 on: June 08, 2003, 05:03:48 am »

Dallardice,

This could definitely be a problem.  Those 625 byte files are bogus.  If they are getting assigned duplicated info in the MC database, it could cause problems on synch. I will check it out tomorrow.

nyc-ink,

Not sure. Try dragging and dropping the playlist on the iPod icon and see if it shows up. If this fails, could you try reformatting or if you don't want to lose the files do the option to recreate the database from iPod. This will remove your playlists, but after it is done you can readd the playlists.

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nyc-ink

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #120 on: June 08, 2003, 06:04:00 am »

Tried both reformatting and dragging and dropping, in fact after reformatting none of the playlists showed up!  Went back to using musicmatch for my ipod synching, it's not as fast but at least my play lists show up.
Brian
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Wobbley

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2003, 06:25:42 am »

sarvis,

I had the same problem about 2 weeks ago (the "h" and the red "x").  After a little exploring, I found that I was missing some key files and folders on my iPod.  I'm not exactly sure how they were deleted, but I am suspicious that it may have had something to do with improperly undocking the iPod.  I fixed my problem by r-clicking the iPod in Windows explorer and chosing reformat.  I had to do this because once my iPod had a few files/folders deleted, I could not run the iPod Restore to "Restore" the iPod.  Every time I would try and run the restore, it would be almost complete, but then the restore app would tell me that it could not unmount iPod.  So, after reformating the iPod in Win Explorer, I then disconnected the iPod, then reconnected it, then ran the restore which worked fine after reformatting the iPod.  Then, I undocked the iPod, restarted my PC, opened Media Center, connected the iPod, and it showed up in MC.  I immediately checked the iPod contents in Win Explorer and saw that the folders that had been deleted were now back on the iPod.  I r-clicked the drive letter in MC, formatted the ipod for MC, and it's been working fine ever since.  I think there is some problem between the built-in Win XP plug and play detection (the little grey/green arrow icon for safely removing hardware) and the iPod service that's installed when you install the apps that come with the iPod.  I saw this because before I had the problem I just described above, there were times when i would connect the iPod, and the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon would then appear in the system tray, but the iPod manager icon would still have the little red "X" over the iPod icon in the system tray.  I could undock the iPod using the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon, but never the iPod icon in the system tray.  After reformatting the drive and running the restore, I haven't had that problem and at all.  In fact, Windows seems to recognize the iPod (when plugged in) more quickly than it ever has.

Hope this helps.

Wobbley
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Wobbley

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2003, 06:30:38 am »

sarvis,

One more thing, before you do anything to try and fix this, explore the iPod in Windows Explorer and look int he [drive letter]:/iPod_Control/ folder and see what you see in there.  I can't remember exactly but you should see some folders like "Device" (I think?  Was it a folder or just a file???), iTunesDB, and another folder...I seem to remember there being 3 folders in the [Drive Letter]:/iPod_Control/ folder.  My guess is that one or more of those folders is missing, or the contents of those folders have been corrupted.  If this is the case, try and follow what I did and see if that fixes your problem.

Wobbley
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Wobbley

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #123 on: June 08, 2003, 06:34:24 am »

dallardice,

Regarding your problem, did you get the error when ripping one track from "one CD in 10", or from the entire CD?  I found that every once in a while I would have the same problem for a random track on a random CD, but it would only occur about every 6 or 7 CDs.  I was using digital secure rip, so I thought it might have something to with that (even though the CDs I was ripping were brand new) so I changed it to something else and then I had no problems ripping the track that MC wouldn't rip when set to rip digital secure.  Maybe you have the same settings and are having the same problem I had???

Wobbley
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dallardice

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #124 on: June 08, 2003, 09:26:47 am »

wobbley,

MC rejects one track (can be any track, not necessarily Track 1) and then refuses to record any others from the same CD.  I'm using Digital Large Buffer recording - haven't tried any others.
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gtorres

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #125 on: June 08, 2003, 04:10:42 pm »

I too get the Media Core error message every time I try to access my 20GB Ipod from MC 9. It happens both with 9.18 and 9.194. Any attempt to acces the Ipod, through autosync or right or left-clicking on the menu has the same results. I have refromatted several times but always the same result.

I have been unable to download the Ipod plug in. Every time I click on it ( 9.0.22) I get an "Invalid Package file. Cannot continue" message. Then it says something about an hh_ipod[1]].mjp file.

I have an earlier version of MC in another PC which works perfectly with my Ipod though.


........
Media Center Registered 9.1.194 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
AMD Athlon 1466 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 329 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1145 (xpsp2.021108-1929) / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive D:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Drive E:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive E: PLEXTOR  CD-R   PX-W2410A   Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:24  MaxSpeed:24  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
 Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

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Timmy_Yak

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #126 on: June 08, 2003, 07:51:06 pm »

Quote

One thing that would be nice--I love the ipod icon on the toolbar--it would be very cool if, when you clicked on it, the synch screen would come up rather than the "select files to transfer" screen  (I think Kurt may have already mentioned this).


I too think this would be a really cool idea.  It would be great if you guys could look into doing this. :)
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mindracing

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2003, 04:26:38 am »

So, where is this iPOD icon on the toolbar?

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cct1

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2003, 05:34:35 am »

Quote
So, where is this iPOD icon on the toolbar?




It's not on the 9.0 builds; it's only on the 9.1  (new) builds--and the tool bar is now on the bottom of the screen, rather than on the top.  IMHO, 9.1 is the way to go--very nice looking, and there is now a "help" wizard which is sweet too....
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JimH

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #129 on: June 09, 2003, 05:48:00 am »

But if you want to avoid problems, you might wait a few builds of 9.1.  It works now, but there are still many things broken.  It should be cleaned up pretty quickly.
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2003, 07:11:03 am »

gtorres,

After the reformat do you get the crash when you click on the iPod Drive?  If not, upload some files and then when (and if) it crashes, please send me your iTunesDB file which is found on your Ipod in iPod_Control->iTunes.

Brian,

This plugin is working well for lots of people so there must be something different either about your setup or what you are doing. If you want to pursue it further, reformat your iPod with from Windows or with iPod updater, rename your MusicMatch directory so it does not interfere, format iPod from within MC and then transfer one playlist to the iPod. If this fails, send me your iTunesDB file which is found on your Ipod in iPod_Control->iTunes and we can go from there.

Steve

Steve (steve @ jriver.com)
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #131 on: June 09, 2003, 07:30:28 am »

Quote

<snip!>
I love the ipod icon on the toolbar--it would be very cool if, when you clicked on it, the synch screen would come up rather than the "select files to transfer" screen
<snip!>


Please add my enthusiastic "aye aye!!" to this request.  A toolbar button would just be a couple steps away from a command-line switch, wouldn't it?  Eh?  Eh??

;D ;D

Initial impressions of 9.1 are very good.  I've been having some problems with my smartlists (I think some bad files have snuck in) so I don't have a working iPod now, nor do I have a bug report.  Imma leave that to the folks with the internet at home, eh?

But well done thus far.  I'm finding all sorts of stuff to fall in love with in 9.1!

PS:  Welcome to INTERACT, Timmy!  Loungers representin' in full effect!  :D
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #132 on: June 09, 2003, 09:05:06 am »

Everyone,

I hear the request for a toolbar button to synch. This is doable, but before I add it, I would like to check that you have explored the new AutoSynch. If you haven't can you check it out and see if it takes care of what you are after? After some discussion here, we want to keep the current button as it is (i.e. click and then select files) as a solution for novice users who just want an easy way to send some files to a player (not just iPod).  The alternative is to add another button for synching to the toolbar, but if Auto-Synch is enabled, this seems like a task that is already covered.

Any feedback or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve
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nekura

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #133 on: June 09, 2003, 09:14:06 am »

First time in a while that I've posted, so I must pose the only question still on my mind: Any word on the Position in Media-Set support yet?
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #134 on: June 09, 2003, 09:40:10 am »

Steve,

I love the autosync feature with a passion.  It's DISGUSTINGLY convenient!!  The times when I want to plug in, sync, and go -- well, it's just a tremendous timesaver.

There's the times, though, that I don't want to sync immediately.  Say I've already plugged in, I fire up MC and want to adjust some smartlists before I sync.  I just click NO on the autosync, fiddle with my playlists, and then sync.  That's when the sync button would be a stone cold boon, especially since usually by that time, my tree is all expanded and browsed out.

I think that having both buttons, or at LEAST having a sync button that we can add if we want, would be a great solution.  I do not reccomend removing the existing button, for the exact reason you mentioned... novice users just want to select something, click a button, and have it sent to their portable.  

And... again... a button that invokes the sync dialogue suggests that there could be a command-line switch that does the same in the near future.  Woot!

:) :)
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coxkevin

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #135 on: June 09, 2003, 10:10:54 am »

Quote
A lot of this is confusing to me. What do you mean by "worked to iPod, but failed in MC"?

It does not take 5 seconds per song for me. This leads me to believe we may be out of synch by version. Perhaps wait to install tonight's release to get us on the same page.

When you say all the files were deleted from the harddrive, what do you mean? The original files?? This should not be and I cannot duplicate this. I do delete the temporarily converted files, but this seems logical.

Hi Steve!

Sorry it took several days to get back to you, but it seems like I'm always on the road anymore.  Now let's see if I can be more clear this time.

I meant it exactly exactly the way you took it.  All the files I synced were deleted from the hard drive on my PC.  That's also what I meant when I said Media Center failed.  The Media Center library was left intact, but gave errors when I tried to play the files because there was nothing to play.  The iPod was fine -- it had all the files at the transcoded bitrate (160).

I believe we are in sync or the version.  I first reported this problem against v9.0.179 (can't remember if it was the iPod plug-in included or an updated download).  You said the problems would be addressed in the next release.  After waiting several days, v9.0.180 was posted and I ran into the same problem (iPod plug-in v9.0.23).

I couldn't agree more that this shouldn't be.  But it is!  Everything was fine after the first sync (the original PC files were still there), but after the second sync with NO changes, the files were gone.  And I'm not talking about the temporary ones (remember, I was the one who requested that you upload and delete the temporary ones after every 10 were transcoded).  The permanent, high quality (320) ones were deleted.

I can't fathom why you can't duplicate this.  It's one thing to have many of the failures reported here and find that it's specific to an installation, but I can't comprehend that applying to files being deleted.  Did you follow my methodology exactly?

During the second sync, it also took about 5 seconds per song to validate the iPod and determine that transcoding wasn't necessary.  I can see this being installation specific, but have no idea how to rectify it.  Any suggestions?

Tell if there's anything I can do to help track these buggers down and eradicate them.

Cheers,
Kevin

Media Center Registered 9.0.180 -- C:\Program Files\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
AMD Athlon 699 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 392 MB, Free - 58 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1145 (xpsp2.021108-1929) / wnaspi32.dll: 4.60 (1021) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1999 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.60 (1021)

Ripping /   Drive E:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Drive I:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: Yes  Soundfile:   chord.wav

Burning /  Drive I: HP       CD-Writer+ 9300    Addr: 3:0:0  Speed:10  MaxSpeed:10  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: No /  Write CD-Text: Yes
 Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None
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dallardice

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #136 on: June 09, 2003, 11:09:27 am »

Quote

occasionally (one CD in 10) I get an error 'Read track failed. Failed to extract digital audio' and MC won't rip it...   I wonder if the ipod sync fails because of these files?  Deleting the files from the HD and MC doesn't help, but perhaps there's some corruption the first time I try to sync when those files are present.


Might be a red herring: sync failed tonight (Media Core failure, repeatedly) after ripping five CDs - all went successfully so no spurious files, and still the sync failed.
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #137 on: June 09, 2003, 11:44:19 am »

nekura,

The position in media set request is not forgotten. Currently you can assign this information by creating a custom column, but as I recall you would like this informatioin to be retrieved from the tag. I raised the issue again, but we decided to not add it unless there is more interest. Perhaps you can start a thread with this as a subject and hopefully others will voice their opinions as well.


Kevin,

Quote
I can't fathom why you can't duplicate this.


I am as perplexed as to how you can see this. I just duplicated your test on two machines with no file deletions. I am using the mp3 encoder from our site and was converting 128 to 96. The bitrates are different than your test, but I do not see this as relevant. Can anyone else duplicate what Kevin is reporting?

Kurt,

Thanks for the comments. Anyone else?


Dalardice,

Do you have some CDs that rip and then synch OK? If yes, what is the name of one of the failing CDs? If no, what are your ripping settings so I can test those.
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nekura

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #138 on: June 09, 2003, 11:57:05 am »

Quote
nekura,

The position in media set request is not forgotten. Currently you can assign this information by creating a custom column, but as I recall you would like this informatioin to be retrieved from the tag. I raised the issue again, but we decided to not add it unless there is more interest. Perhaps you can start a thread with this as a subject and hopefully others will voice their opinions as well.


Steve,

Thanks for the reply.  Whether or not it reads straight from the ID3 tag doesn't bother me; it's the issue about the order in which the files are written to the iPod which does.  As far as my testing as shown, if I use a custom column, the files are still written in default order and thus the track listing with a four-disc album would appear this way on my iPod: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, etc., thus destroying the point of having the columns in the first place.
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coxkevin

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #139 on: June 09, 2003, 01:07:57 pm »

Quote
Kevin,

I am as perplexed as to how you can see this. I just duplicated your test on two machines with no file deletions. I am using the mp3 encoder from our site and was converting 128 to 96. The bitrates are different than your test, but I do not see this as relevant. Can anyone else duplicate what Kevin is reporting?


Ok, following the rule of don't ask if you can't stand the answer, I "upgraded" to v9.1.194.  First off, in the little time I spent playing with it, the interface kicks a--!  Much less clutter and much more intuitive for first time users.

Now for the bad news, the problem is still here!  

Here are some more specifics on my latest testing as I'm convinced there's a logic problem in the iPod plugin.  

In the "My Documents/My Music" folder I created two subfolders - one called "Temp" and one called "Testing".  In the "Testing" folder I copied all the songs from two full albums, Bangles - Different Light, and Bangles - Greatest Hits (26 tracks in all).  

In Media Center I created a new library called "Testing" and pointed it two a new subfolder "My Documents/My Music/Testing/.Media Center".  Then I imported all the 26 songs into the "Testing" library.  Following that, I created a smartlist called "iPod Testing" with "Artist: Bangles".  

In the "Tools - Options - File Naming & Location" dialog box, I set "Temporary File Location" to My Documents\My Music\Temp\".

I then right clicked on my iPod and selected "Synchronize files".  In the dialog box I checked the "Testing" smartlist, as well as the "Delete Files Not In List" and "Update Tags" boxes.  After pressing the options button, I checked the "Normalize Files" box and set the level to 90%.  I also checked the "Force file conversion during uploads" box, but did not check the "Show queued files only" box.

I set the encoder to "MP3 Encoder" and the "Quality" to 160 (all of the original files were 320).  After pressing the "Options" button in this dialog box, I set the "MP3 Encoding Option" to "High Quality".   I then Okay'd my way back out to start the sync.

Then I waited and watched.  Media Center transcoded the first 10 files and put them in the "Temp" directory as set up.  Then it downloaded the transcoded files to the iPod.  AND THEN IT DELETED THE ORIGINAL FILES -- NOT THE TRANSCODED ONES.  It repeated this same action for the next 10 files, and the final 6 files.  

When all was said and done, the iPod was loaded with transcoded files and worked fine.  The original 320 bps files were deleted from the PC, but the original Media Center library pointers still referenced the files (meaning it couldn't play anything).  The transcoded files were left sitting around in the "Temp" directory".  

Steve, please tell me this helps and that you're able to reproduce the problem!  

Cheers,
Kevin
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #140 on: June 09, 2003, 01:08:21 pm »

Nekura,

Quote
Whether or not it reads straight from the ID3 tag doesn't bother me


If that isn't an issue let me see what I can do. Also let me see if I understand the problem.

You have an Album that spans multiple CDs. Your concern is that you want to play the album on the iPod and have all the tracks play in the correct sequence (including the cross disc ordering).

If this is correct, refresh for me how the albums are named in MC.

Thanks,

Steve
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nekura

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #141 on: June 09, 2003, 01:30:40 pm »

Steve, hopefully I can sum this up as detailed as possible for you, because it can be a bit difficult to fully understand.

Right now, my library consists of many multi-disc albums.  The albums are named using this format:

Album Name [CD 1]
Album Name [CD 2]
Album Name [CD 3]
etc. etc.

While this naming system works, there are two inherent problems with it:
1) It's a viewing area hog.  In one of the earlier iPod Support threads, I posted screenshots of a comparison between what my MC9 library looks like with the current titles, and what it would look like if I could have multi-disc albums named Album Name rather than Album Name [CD 1], etc.  If necessary, I can post those screenshots again, if only to invoke a bit of sympathy for my plight. ;)  As you might imagine, if my MC9 library looks icky because of all of the unnecessary album entries, just imagine what my iPod looks like.
2) In order to play a full multi-disc album, I must play by artist.  Obviously this isn't always convenient because there could be other albums that I have by the same artist.  Again, it's usable, but inconvenient.

"You have an Album that spans multiple CDs. Your concern is that you want to play the album on the iPod and have all the tracks play in the correct sequence (including the cross disc ordering)."

Summed up beautifully.  Ideally, the solution to this problem would be either a) Introduce a "CD #" column so as to avoid the problem with solution b), which is to have the plug-in search for a similarly-functioning column with a certain name (user-adjustable?) and write to the iPod accordingly.  As I'm not familiar with MC9's internals, I'm not sure just how feasible either solution really is.

Anyway, I hope this post clarified things for you, if you need any further information, just ask.
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #142 on: June 09, 2003, 02:05:59 pm »

Woah.  All I want, on the other hand, is a pizza.  :)

(actually, nekura, position in media set has always been a great idea to add and i'm very glad that you're championing this cause for us... cheers!)
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cct1

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2003, 07:16:45 pm »

Quote

Kurt,

Thanks for the comments. Anyone else?




Steve,


I echo Kurt's sentiments exactly.  I understand the rationale behind the current setup, but most of MC9 users will with time want the bells and whistles  (after all, there are stripped down, easier programs to use with the ipod than MC9; I've sort of discovered over at the 'lounge that MC9 is more for those who are willing to put a little time into it for the BEST application for the ipod, and want full functionality--the effort is well rewarded in the end, but not everyone wants or needs the myriad of options that MC9 offers--those that are looking for an "easy" way to synch their ipod will probably choose a relatively more basic program than MC9.  (I've already seen this happen several times on the lounge boards--and thats ok; different strokes for different folks....).

So, if you want to keep the functionality of the current icon the way it is, no problem....But if you can, I think it would be great to give us another icon that we can use to synch--it would really come in handy....I rarely use autosynch, because I invariable change something in a playlist or tag before I synch  (not knocking autosynch, I think it's a great idea, it's just not how I use MC9).  That way, we can each customize our toolbar to our heart's content....


Just my 2 cents, and thanks for taking a look at it!!
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2003, 06:10:48 am »

Kevin and Nekura,

I will look at your issues today.


cct1,

Quote
those that are looking for an "easy" way to synch their ipod will probably choose a relatively more basic program than MC9.


Ideally we would like these users to join the MC fold as well. Can you give me your best example of a basic program so I can try to modify our solution to be a solution also for these people. I have used MusicMatch(blechh), Ephpod and XPlay.
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nekura

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #145 on: June 10, 2003, 06:48:51 am »

Quote
Kevin and Nekura,

I will look at your issues today.


Steve,
Thanks for your time.  Hopefully a workable solution will be possible.
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cct1

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2003, 07:38:47 am »

Quote
Kevin and Nekura,

I will look at your issues today.


cct1,

Ideally we would like these users to join the MC fold as well. Can you give me your best example of a basic program so I can try to modify our solution to be a solution also for these people. I have used MusicMatch(blechh), Ephpod and XPlay.


Steve,

Here's my take  (Kurt and Adam will probably want to chime in here too...).  Xplay is probably the "easiest" to synch with, but in my mind, if you're going to pay for an application, why not just pay a little bit more and get MC9?  I've posted this about a billion times over at the lounge; some people don't want or need what MC9 can do--they just want something to synch easily.  Or, in this situation, if you just are looking for something easy, why not just get ephpod--it's free and works well.  I have a hard time with Xplay;  IMHO, if you're going to shell out cash, might as well get MC9; if you don't want to shell out cash, or just want to synch easily, might as well use ephpod.

Xplay is another matter--if you can come up with a "drag and drop" option like Xplay, and fine tune the autosynch like Kurt was talking about,  then you could make Xplay obsolete--I think most people would be willing to pay an extra ten dollars for MC9 if they could synch the way they can in Xplay--that's a no brainer to me anyway  (although having no brain to begin with, I'm not sure how valid my opinion is here).  The way you've got synching set up is fantastic--once people learn how to synch the "MC9 way", they love it--it's really one of the outstanding points of the program, and my suspicion is that if you offered a drag and drop, it would get more people away from Xplay to MC9, but they'd probably synch the MC9 way once they got familar with it...


As an all in one application, MC9 has got mmjb beat hands down--these are people you can still potentially get to come over to MC9  (About the only feature that people that convert from mmjb to MC9 say they miss is "supertagging", and not having used mmjb in eons I'm not sure how that works.  You already synch MUCH better than mmjb).  

A major issue for MC9 is going to be itunes for windows--IMHO, that' s going to be you're major competition; I think mmjb will go by the wayside once Itunes for windows is released.  And that is why it so important for MC9 to support AAC--because Itunes for windows will  (although it looks like from a post I read yesterday there is a way for MC9 to support AAC).  I prefer MC9 to Itunes  (I've only played around with Itunes briefly though), but Itunes for windows will be a MAJOR improvement over mmjb when it's released, and will be your major competition for the ipod market.  And personally I think you'd be better off keeping an eye on Itunes  (by the looks of 9.1, it looks like you guys are doing a great job BTW), rather than worrying about MC9 synching as easy as ephpod--I don't think people using ephpod are going to shell out $40.00 for MC9--there are good free ripper/encoders  (EAC/LAME for example) that can be paired with Ephpod--now you've got a great ripping/encoding/easy synching set up for free.  You won't be able to compete with ephpod IMHO, and it's not even worth trying...Itunes for windows may very will be the death sentence for Xplay, ephpod, not to mention mmjb--but MC9 still does things that Itunes can't, and MC9 does other things that Itunes can do, but a little better...


We've seen over at the lounge people who give up on MC9 because it's got a learning curve--they want something basic.  MC9 is a sophisticated program, and IMHO a basic synch set up like ephpod isn't going to pull people in to MC9--the remaining functions of MC9 and remaining options are still going to be too much for some....And there is a perception by some that they're paying for alot of video management stuff they'll never use  (seen this brought up before several times--I don't necessarily agree with it; I don't use any of the video stuff either, but still think MC9 is well worth it).

In my experience, (and take it for what it's worth, I'm not nearly as knowledgable as Adam or Kurt), MC9 attracts ipodders who are looking for a bunch of things--high quality ripping/encoding, outstanding file management, fast synching  (not to mention the media server)--we joke over at the lounge how obsessive/compulsive  we are about our music management--these are the type of people  (for better or for worse) you are attracting and I don't think people looking for an easy, cheap synch like ephpod  will necessarily fit into this demographic, but if you add drag and drop and an autsosynch similar to what  Xplay does, you can broaden your appeal a bit.  Also, appears to be a relatively older crowd compared to the average ipodder...

Wake up, I hear you snoozing..Sorry for the long post..

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Wobbley

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2003, 09:57:31 am »

nekura,

Let me give you my take on your situation, and I have the same.  This was my rational:

I buy a CD that is actually 3 CDs, and each CD is mixed by a particular DJ.  For instance, "Renaissance Worldwide:Singapore" has 3 CDs, and each CD is mixed by a different DJ, David Morales (Disc 1), Dave Seaman (Disc 2), and BT (Disc 3).  So, my first dilemma is "Do I fill in the 'Album Artist' tag with 'Various Artists' for all tracks on all CDs, and then put the individual song artists in the 'Artist' tag field, or, for each CD, do I put the DJ's name (i.e. David Morales) as the 'Album Artist', still using the individual track artist details in the 'Artist' field?  I decided to use the DJ's name in the 'Album Artist' field instead of 'Various Artists'.  Once that's solved, I then ask myself, "Do I rip the first CD and call the Album 'Renaissance Worldwide: Singapore (CD 1)', and the same for CDs 2 and 3 (only changing the CD #), or do I just rip all the tracks from all the CDs and name the album 'Renaissance Worldwide: Singapore'?  After all, the album title is 'Renaissance Worldwide: Singapore', not 'Renaissance Worldwide: Singapore 3-Disc Set', so I don't include the CD# in the 'Album' tag field; I rely on the differences in 'Album Artist' to indicate to me the songs that are on different discs.  The reason that I chose to not use the CD# in the 'Album' tag field is because I couldn't see it on the iPod when I scrolled through 'Albums' anyway.  So, on the iPod, I just scroll to 'Renaissance Worldw...' and I know I've selected all the tracks on the CD, but they don't play in order unless I have renumbered the tracks in Media Center before porting the songs to my iPod.  So, after I rip the CDs, I have to go back and renumber the tracks on Discs 2 and 3 (in this example) so that the track numbering for disc 2 picks up from where disc 1's track numbering left off, and disc 3's track numbering picks up from where disc 2's track numbering left off, so I end up with one album called 'Renaissance Worldwide: Singapore' with about 40 tracks on it, instead of 3 different albums (which are really the same album), each with 12+ tracks on them.  But, I guess all this depends on the definition of 'Album'.  Does 'Album' mean all the songs that are on a CD, or does it mean a collection of songs contained within one package (which would include the 2 or greater disc sets that you and I are having trouble with).  Another problem, inherent in all of this is that, again in this example, I have chosen to let the 'Artist' tag field contain the track artist's name, and 'Album Artist' contains the name of the DJ or DJs that selected and mixed the tracks for the album (discs).  When I copy the songs over to the iPod, the 'Album Artist' field does not get copied (of course), but instead the 'Artist' field does.  And this is correct; MC should copy the 'Artist' name over as 'Artist' to the iPod as there are many more single-artist albums than there are multiple-artist or "mixed" CDs (in the average person's collection of MP3s).  But, I usually have no idea who the track artists are on "mixed" CDs, much less can I remember them when I want to hear the songs from the album when listening to mu iPod, and even further, even if I could remember who the track artists are, I could never remember the ordering of the tracks such that I could play the tracks in their correct order.  It would be nice if the iPod plugin would copy the 'Album Artist' field to the iPod instead of the 'Artist' field if MC detected the presence of a value (and the value was the same for each track) in the 'Album Artist' field for all tracks associated with an album.  That way, I could scroll through 'Artists' on the iPod, and find, say, 'David Morales' and then pick the 'Renaissance Worldwide: Singapore' from the album listings under his name.  Then, it woudln't matter that the iPod only shows a certain number of characters in the album title and I can never differentiate between 'Album Title (CD 1)' and 'Album Title (CD 2)' (for longer album titles).  Here's another, slightly different, example that I have just thought of.  I have an "album" called 'Renaissance Anthems', which is comprised, again, of 3 CDs.  However, each CD has it's own name, "At The Bar" (CD 1), "At The Club" (CD 2), and "At Home" (CD 3).  So, each CD has it's own name, but all the CDs are part of an Album called 'Renaissance Anthems', so what do I enter into the 'Album' field for each CD?  For example, for the first CD, should I enter 'Renaissance Anthems: At The Bar' as the album title, and apply the same methodology to the other 2 albums' naming conventions, or should I use 'Renaissance Anthems' for the 'Album' value for all tracks on all CDs, and enter the CD title in the 'Comment' field or 'Notes' field for each track so I can still (through a search, etc.) identify each individual CD if I need/want to?  In this case of this last example, each track has it's own artist, but there is no main DJ (or DJs) associated with the album, so I would use 'Various Artists' in the 'Album Artist' field.

I could go on and on, because I have many unresolved tagging dilemmas for which I am always actively seeking solutions, suggestions, ideas, etc.

Let's keep this thread going here or somewhere else and maybe we (and others) can come up with a definitive guide for tagging MP3s...

Cheers,

Wobbley
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #148 on: June 10, 2003, 02:02:11 pm »

Kevin,

I managed to reproduce your bug. Thanks for reporting it. It is fixed in Plugin 9.0.26 which is not included in today's MC build, but is available from the Plugins page.


Wobbley (and Nekura),

Thanks for your detailed suggestions. I did not have a chance to address this issue today, but will look at it soon.


cct1,

Thanks for your comments. I will use these to try improve what we already have.

Steve
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gtorres

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Re: IPOD SUPPORT
« Reply #149 on: June 10, 2003, 04:51:03 pm »

Well, whatever the cause of the crashes I described in post #125 they are gone with the latest build. Version 196 works fine with my Ipod now.
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