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[Goatshade]

This is related to this question. How do I set a remote machine/library (as in, not on the LAN) as a zone so that I can link a local zone to it?

[JimH]

Is this what you're looking for?

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tremote

[Goatshade]

Is this what you're looking for?

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tremote

Not quite. The conditions and intent are as follows:

I have a copy of MC for Windows running as my server here in Colorado, complete with its own library and assets as normal. I have a friend in Kansas who has a copy of MC for Linux running on a Chromebook with GalliumOS installed. For my own purposes, I have already enabled the Media Network options and DLNA. With the access key and my read-only credentials, my friend can access my library and its contents and pull them. Similarly, I can have her enable the same Media Network options and DLNA. I can connect to her library via her access key and read-only credentials and pull them in the same manner. So far, so good.

What I cannot do as far as I can see is have my own library loaded and play back a given file from it to my machine and push it to hers at the same time.

Essentially, I'm asking for ZoneSync through the cloud—or, more appropriately, ZoneLink. Whether or not the two play-back instances are perfectly in sync is not important so long as they both play. Because my server resides on a different LAN from hers, her machine does not appear as a play-back zone while my own library is loaded on my machine—meaning that I cannot link it to my own zone(s). Meanwhile, loading her library relinquishes the ability for me to play back my own server's content in the first place.

For context, we are geographically distant friends who like to do things together online, to include listening to music and watching stuff. We don't share a physical couch but we sure like to make up for it with the Internet.

[Goatshade]

Any other thoughts?

[Goatshade]

Anybody?

[RoderickGI]

I think DLNA and the MC Media Network have restrictions in that the functionality you are looking for only works on one LAN.

The obvious solution is to set up a VPN between your two locations so that you are essentially on the same LAN. I'll let you research how to do that, as there are several options (router to router end point - depends on hardware/firmware capability, PC to PC endpoints - easier using software, PC to router or visa versa). That is a little bit geeky and will need some networking knowledge to get IP addresses and such sorted out.

That should allow you to share music via Zonelink. But I don't think that will work for video, as I don't think Zonelonk works with video. Options there would be to set up some sort of streaming server at either end, and both watch the stream from that. I even think I read about an online service that allows you to do that a while back. Googling may find it.

[Goatshade]

I'll look in to VPN options but can video be enabled in ZoneLink in the mean time? Again, it doesn't need to be in sync; it just needs to play to both locations.

[Goatshade]

...Well, never mind VPN options. They don't work. I tried setting up my own VPN server with these instructions but no matter what settings I use, what ports I forward, what firewall rules I verify, and what Registry keys are already added or enabled, subsequent VPN connection attempts to my server end with an error stating that the connection could not be made because the name of the remote access server did not resolve—and I'm using my public-facing IP, as opposed to a domain.

I don't know what to do. Frankly, I'm tired of following instructions like the ones linked that don't yield positive results for no explicable reason. Am I to understand that the establishment of an incoming connection via Windows is a broken feature and that I just wasted two to three hours of my life?

[RoderickGI]

...Well, never mind VPN options.

That is a shame. They do require a bit of work and a learning curve to set them up and get them working reliably. It certainly doesn't help when Microsoft break the Window 10 VPN functionality. Having to do registry edits to get stuff working is just not right.

Dare I suggest, although it will require yet more reading and work, that you try using OpenVPN instead, as the Server and Client? https://openvpn.net/index.php/open-source/documentation/howto.html

I would probably use that if I was doing what you are trying to do. Partly because OpenVPN has Android and iOS Clients, so I could test the connection from outside my LAN using my mobile phone running a Client and connecting via the mobile network.

It is pretty geeky, but it does work.


I don't know if Zonelink works for video. I know the new Zone Sync functionality doesn't work for video yet, but I've never tried Zonelink with video. Perhaps someone else could speak up.

[JimH]

Nothing is broken.  Try this.

Set up a second machine in your location, on your LAN.  Run Media Center on it.  Turn on Media Network.

On the first machine, you should be able to see the second one (in the top part of Playing Now).  Drag a file to it.  Anything you play after that will play to that machine.

Does that work?  If it were in another location, would that do what you want?

[RoderickGI]

Well Schmengie, just for you I tested Zonelink between my HTPC and Workstation. I needed to understand how well it worked anyway.

For playing audio it worked, although way out of sync. For this test I didn't try using ZoneSync.

For playing video Zonelink didn't work at all. It played on the HTPC where I started playback, and the Workstation knew it was playing, but only showed the Cover Art of the movie.

So a VPN with ZoneLink wouldn't have worked for you anyway. Well, only for music, not video.

You could just leave your PC as the MC Server and have your friend connect to it as a Client. Then you could both play a movie to your own local installations of MC, but it would be hard to get the movie in sync, and it may drift out of sync even if it started correctly. You wouldn't need a VPN for that to work, as a MC Client can connect to a MC Server over the internet, as long as the router is port forwarding to the Server correctly, and all firewalls and other security software allow it. Combine that with a voice or text chat App between the two computers, and that may be a good enough solution for you.

If you did set up a VPN the above suggestion would work easier, as music could be sent to the linked Zones, and video could be launched independently by yourself and your friend.



I would suggest a screen sharing App like Teamviewer so that one of you could play a movie, while the other was a Teamviewer client and watched it at the same time. That would give you the benefit of being able to watch the movie, talk to each other, and even use a Chat window to discuss the movie as it played. But I think the Client viewing and sound quality would be pretty poor, which sort of defeats the purpose I imagine.

There are some consumer level tools and services that allow you to stream audio and video to multiple locations these days. But I can't make any recommendations for them, as I haven't researched what is available. Worth a Google though for you I suspect. I'm thinking something like the personal radio and TV station solutions that are available these days, or webcasts, etc.

[Goatshade]

I really appreciate you testing this so thoroughly for me. It makes me feel better after the frustrations of last night.

That said, I would still like to push these items as feature requests:
1. Allowing zones (and thus, ZoneLink) through the cloud--perhaps by manual addition via public-facing IP or MC access key--as opposed to just libraries. I don't know if DLNA implementations allow for this but currently, the Add zone... feature is rather limited.
2. Allow video over ZoneLink.

Key question is whether or not either of these are possible. I'm asking for them but I'm not a programmer in the end.

[lepa]

Zone Link works also for video. Just linked MC zone and phone's bubble upnp zone (DLNA) and video started to play on both zones. Can't say how reliable it will be but at least it started

[RoderickGI]

That's strange. I just tried it the other way around, Workstation to HTPC, with the same results. It could be Client video settings, but both PCs are capable of playing the original files. I can play from either PC to the other no issue.

Maybe because you are using a DLNA target, while I was using two MC installations? I don't know, but if it doesn't just work, then it probably isn't a good solution in this case, given the remote target over the internet.

[RoderickGI]

Well, would you look at that!

I upgraded both my HTPC and Workstation to the latest version available to me (Beta), rebooted both PCs, started playback of a movie on the HTPC, dragged the default "Player" Zone to the Workstation's default Zone, and Zonelink worked for me... once I realised that I needed to select the correct local Zone on each PC.

I fact, with the new Precision Zone Sync feature turned on, if I paused playback on the source MC installation, the HTPC, then playback was paused on the Workstation. If I then started playback again on the Workstation so that it was out of sync with the HTPC, then started playback on the HTPC again the playback was a bit out of sync. But when I paused the HTPC again, and unpaused it, playback came back into sync.

So it looks like ZoneSync is working for video as well, as long as the video is controlled (pause/play) at the source MC installation. Or more correctly, Play/Pause just needs to be in the correct Server Zone, rather than the local Client playback Zone if the content is controlled at the Client.

This is very good.

Maybe this would have worked before I upgraded the MC installations, if I had selected the correct Zones at each PC (although I thought I had). But I did have different versions of MC on each PC, so maybe having the same version, and the latest, made a difference. There don't appear to be any relevant changes to Zone functionality since the publically available MC24.0.34 in the Release Notes.


So Schmengie, if you can get a VPN working to your friend (i.e. OpenVPN), then MC can probably do what you want, for music and video, as long as the Linux version she is running has equivalent functionality for Zones as MC24.0.34. 
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Now that I know that is working, I'm going to have to play around with Zone Groups. 

PS: Note that I turned off ZoneSwitch for all the above testing. If used, and Zones are switched based on content for example (Audio vs Video), then that is going to impact the above functionality. It would need to be taken into account.

[Goatshade]

That's very good news.

Now, if only I could get any VPN connection to work. I've tried the built-in Windows client. I initially downloaded OpenVPN but decided that I didn't want to have to spend hours messing around with configuration files because the GUI doesn't allow me to just specify settings like a normal person.

So, I went and downloaded SoftEther VPN and it looked promising. Per usual, I followed these instructions, followed by these instructions. I've tried disabling my firewall. I've tried opening and forwarding ports. I tried generating a self-signed certificate and using that instead of a username and password. Nothing I try is allowing any device to connect to my server and it's really starting to piss me off. This leads me to believe that it wasn't Windows after all; something is blocking these connections.

I say again: I am damned tired of following instructions only for them to not work on my devices for some reason.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Goatshade]

So I finally managed to get a working VPN connection but I'm not seeing the zones replicated on either the client or the server.

Am I missing something?

[RoderickGI]

Some progress!

When your PC is connected to your friend's PC via the VPN, do the two PCs act like they are on the same LAN? I don't have a Linux PC around any more, so I can't be sure how best to test this. But if your friend has an SMB share running, then I think that should be visible in Windows Explorer on your PC. Also, assuming that you are running the VPN Server and your friend is using a VPN Client, then the VPN Client should have an IP Address that is within the range your DHCP server uses. Your friend should be able to check that. If you know the IP Address of the Linux Client connection, you should be able to ping it. Your router should see the VPN Client as an address it has supplied. Assuming, of course, that the Client is set up to get an IP Address from the VPN Server, and it isn't using a private IP Address, which I think is an option. The two PCs will need to be on the LAN and using IP Addresses in the same range, which means on the same subnet.

I'm no Linux expert, so hopefully someone with more Linux knowledge will speak up and confirm how to check the above connection.

With the VPN active, can your friend connect to your MC installation using either the Access Key or the direct LAN IP Address? If so, and Media Network is set up correctly, then both PCs should show up as Zones on the other PC, using the PC names. Sometimes it can take a little while for the Zones to show up. On my LAN with two Windows PCs it can take 10 seconds or more. It would be longer over the VPN.

[Goatshade]

With the VPN active, can your friend connect to your MC installation using either the Access Key or the direct LAN IP Address? If so, and Media Network is set up correctly, then both PCs should show up as Zones on the other PC, using the PC names. Sometimes it can take a little while for the Zones to show up. On my LAN with two Windows PCs it can take 10 seconds or more. It would be longer over the VPN.

I'm actually testing this with two Windows machines right now. My JRiver server is also acting as the VPN server via PPTP (I know it's crap for security but I've had enough frustration with trying to get anything else to work that I'm just running with it for now). I have my friend's client machine connected to it via VPN and MC connected via access key. Neither machine is appearing to the other as a play-back zone; "Player" is the only option for both. It's been hours.

If it means anything, neither PC appears to the other under Network in Windows Explorer either.

What do I need to check?

[RoderickGI]

Ah, you have probably been caught up in Microsoft's security improvements. You need to fix Network Discovery on Windows.

See https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114852.0.html

That should get the PCs to show up under Network in Windows Explorer. It may even help with the VPN, but maybe not once Linux is involved.

[Goatshade]

Ah, you have probably been caught up in Microsoft's security improvements. You need to fix Network Discovery on Windows.

See https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114852.0.html

That should get the PCs to show up under Network in Windows Explorer. It may even help with the VPN, but maybe not once Linux is involved.

This does not solve the problem. Local devices are already appearing in Network and were before I started playing with VPN's.

I should note that I actually have SMBv1 enabled already due to it being required for Nintendo 3DS transfers (or so I discovered).

Devices connected via VPN still refuse to show up.

What are your settings?

[RoderickGI]

What are the IP Addresses of the two Windows PCs?

Both Windows 10?

Does the VPN Server or VPN Client have a secondary IP Address associated with the VPN?


My settings are the basic Media Network settings. All DLNA turned on. See image. I also currently have Zoneswitch turned off on the Server.

When my Client isn't connected to the Server, the server shows up on the Client as the PC name, and the Server shows up on the Client as the Server PC name. In those cases the current Zone is used if I direct output to the PC name.

When the Client is connected, the Server shows up on the Client as Zone "There". I think when I had Zoneswitch turned on for the Server, then the actual Zone selected showed up on the Client. So in my case it was "HTPC: Video" or "HTPC: Audio", or something like that. On the Server, the Client still shows up as the Client PC name.

[Goatshade]

What are the IP Addresses of the two Windows PCs?

LAN PC's IP is 192.168.0.3. Remote PC can have 192.168.0.28, 29, or 30.

Both Windows 10?

Yes

Does the VPN Server or VPN Client have a secondary IP Address associated with the VPN?

I don't think so. How would I find out for sure?

My settings are the basic Media Network settings. All DLNA turned on. See image. I also currently have Zoneswitch turned off on the Server.

When my Client isn't connected to the Server, the server shows up on the Client as the PC name, and the Server shows up on the Client as the Server PC name. In those cases the current Zone is used if I direct output to the PC name.

When the Client is connected, the Server shows up on the Client as Zone "There". I think when I had Zoneswitch turned on for the Server, then the actual Zone selected showed up on the Client. So in my case it was "HTPC: Video" or "HTPC: Audio", or something like that. On the Server, the Client still shows up as the Client PC name.

I meant your VPN configuration. Options, et cetera.

[RoderickGI]

LAN PC's IP is 192.168.0.3. Remote PC can have 192.168.0.28, 29, or 30.
I don't think so. How would I find out for sure?
I meant your VPN configuration. Options, et cetera.

With those IP Addresses it should just be working. Assuming it is your local DHCP server providing the IP Address for the remote PC. If both PCs have a DHCP server available to them, and they are both using the same address range, things could become difficult. If that is the case, change the address range used, or restrict the range on one PC to the lower number range, and on the other PC to the higher range. Then reboot the PCs and check the IP Addresses again, to confirm they are coming from the correct router/DHCP Server.

A VPN Client running on a PC can often have its own IP Address for its local LAN, and an IP Address for the LAN it is attached to via the VPN. As you can see the remote PC has an IP Address in the correct range, are you able to ping 192.168.0.28, 29, or 30 from 192.168.0.3, and visa versa?

Oops. Sorry. I don't have a VPN Server set up at the moment, so I can't share settings. The main issue I would have thought was that the Client got its IP Address fro the VPN Server, or the DHPC server on the local LAN, usually the router. So look for those settings in the Client. I'm using a commercial VPN Client currently for my needs, and connecting to a commercial server on the internet, which is a different though similar proposition. But I have had a VPN Server at home previously and used a Client to attach to it. There has never been an issue really. I must be missing something.


The other potential stumbling block are the firewalls on each PC and the devices (routers) in between. But VPN software usually does a pretty good job of informing a firewall to let it through. Of course you also need your local router to have port mapping set up to send inbound Client requests to the correct PC which is running the VPN Server.

I admit I haven't studied the instructions for the software you are using. I usually just set this stuff up and use it!

[Goatshade]

As you can see the remote PC has an IP Address in the correct range, are you able to ping 192.168.0.28, 29, or 30 from 192.168.0.3, and visa versa?

The stupid thing is, yes, I can. Both directions.