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Author Topic: Cover Art questions  (Read 869 times)

jwk246

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Cover Art questions
« on: September 10, 2018, 01:14:00 pm »

I'm trying to clean up my install and found a cover art problem, which in turn, brought up several questions related to Cover Art.

It all started with Gregory Peck and Robert De Niro.

When I ripped Blurays of Cape Fear (1962, Gregory Peck), and Cape Fear (1991, Robert De Niro), I did so months apart from each other and wasn't thinking about naming conflicts. Both were ripped as 'Cape Fear'. As far as the files go, this wasn't a conflict since even though they're both on the same drive, I included the year they were released in the directory name. However, the Cover Art, for reasons I can't answer, ended up being named the same- 'Cape Fear'. Apparently, the 1962 version was ripped last and over-wrote the Cover Art from the 1991 version so both movies have the 1991 Cover Art. The TMDb description of each movie is correct. Now the question is, what is the best way to correct the Cover Art. I can right-click on the unwanted Cover Art in Movie view and select 'Add From File' (which I've already downloaded from TMDb), but I don't know if I should use 'Remove Cover Art' first.

Which leads me to my second question... while researching how this all started in the first place I discovered that my Cover Art is a number of different (and most hidden) directories:

c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 23\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 22\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\Desktop\Cover Art\****.jpg       (the ones I had to add manually that were not in the TMDb database)

So, are the individual .jpg's indexed somewhere to the movies they belong to? Where?

Can I move ALL of the Cover Art jpegs into one master directory (c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Cover Art\Videos\ ) to simplify things and make them easier to keep track up?

Thanks...
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RoderickGI

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Re: Cover Art questions
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 09:07:51 pm »

Apparently, the 1962 version was ripped last and over-wrote the Cover Art from the 1991 version so both movies have the 1991 Cover Art <snip> but I don't know if I should use 'Remove Cover Art' first.

I'm not sure which version of Cover Art the movies have based on the first part of the quote above! I'm going to assume both have the 1991 Cover Art.
But it doesn't matter if you do or don't remove the Cover Art first. The existing file in the movie folder, which I guess is just named "\Cape Fear (1962)\Cape Fear.jpg", will be overwritten when you "Add from file", or use the "Get Movie & TV Info" function on the 1962 movie. Just make sure that the "Get Movie & TV Info" function selects the correct movie in the dialogue. Do the problem movie by itself.

Note: themoviedb.org, where MC gets its movie posters from, does have posters for both the 1962 and 1991 versions. Just search for "Cape Fear" without any year in the search criteria, and you will see both


Which leads me to my second question... while researching how this all started in the first place I discovered that my Cover Art is a number of different (and most hidden) directories:

c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 23\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 22\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Cover Art\Videos\****.jpg
c:\Users\username\Desktop\Cover Art\****.jpg       (the ones I had to add manually that were not in the TMDb database)

So, are the individual .jpg's indexed somewhere to the movies they belong to? Where?

Can I move ALL of the Cover Art jpegs into one master directory (c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Cover Art\Videos\ ) to simplify things and make them easier to keep track up?

Thanks...

First, the Cover Art in those first four directories is Cover Art for videos, and not for movies. Things like home videos mostly, or perhaps any optical disc that you have imported into MC but not ripped to a hard drive. TV show Series and Season Cover Art are stored in directories below the \Cover Art\ directory, but not in the \Video\ directory. So, those directories don't hold Cover Art for your Movies or TV Shows.

Cover Art that is stored in the "Cover Art" directory didn't used to get moved or copied when you did a major upgrade of MC, so the old Cover Art directory would get left behind. I believe that has changed now and future upgrades will at least copy the Cover Art across to the new version. So what you are seeing there are all the old Cover Art Video directories. You probably have all the Cover Art you need in the "C:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Cover Art\Videos" directory, and you would just have duplicates in the MC23, 22, and 21 directories. If anything is missing, move them to the MC24 directory.

What I recommend you do it;
1. Pick a spot that you want all externally stored (not in a file tag, and not next to the media file, such as for a movie) Cover Art to be stored in the future, so that it isn't dependent on the MC version. Something like "C:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Cover Art" or just "C:\JRiver\Cover Art\", for example.
2. Go to the "Options > File Location > Cover Art > Folder" setting and change it to the directory you decided on in 1. above. You can create the new directory using the MC dialogue, and MC will offer to move your Cover Art to the new location. Let it.
3. Manually move any files from "c:\Users\username\Desktop\Cover Art\" to the new location. When you added from that directory, MC should have asked if you wanted to put a copy of the image file in the directory defined in Settings, so if you allowed that, any Cover Art images in there are just copies (backups) anyway.

Optionally:

Your Library Backups are probably still being stored under an older version of MC directories as well, so you may wish to;
4. Go to the "Options > File Location > Program Files > Library Backups" setting. Make a note of the current setting, which is probably under one of the older versions of MC. Change it to the directory under the MC24 structure. i.e. "c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Library Backups\", or you could make a new directory for backups that is also independent of the MC version, i.e. "C:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Library Backups\" or just "C:\JRiver\Library Backups\".
5. Copy the most recent backups from the old backup location to the new location, so that you don't lose them.

Some more you could do;
6. If you didn't move any Cover Art from the directories belonging to older versions of MC, do it now if you want to.
7. Uninstall any earlier versions of MC if you haven't already. i.e. MC21, 22, and 23.
8. Go into "c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\" and delete the "Media Center 21", "Media Center 22", and "Media Center 23" directories, to complete removal of the old versions.


I suggest all of the above because that is what I do now; I store all Cover Art and Backups in a location that isn't specific to the MC version, so that I don't need to change the location every time I do an upgrade (yearly). For the Cover Art that works brilliantly. For the Library Backups, I just use the date of the backup to work out which version of MC it belongs to, although, for example, a MC23 backup can be restored to a MC 24 installation without issue.

Enjoy!
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

tij

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Re: Cover Art questions
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 09:10:23 pm »

I always put cover art inside same folder as movie file and name it exactly like movie file it is associated with (with appropriate extension ofcourse). Then I don’t really care how MC handles thumbing internally as it’s working good.

Reason for that (1) JRiver will use that image first (just make sure when “getting movie and tv info” get cover art is untick (2) I get to pick cover I like (image I like in size that I need which is usually 1500x1000 for movies) ... seems MC doesn’t give me choice in  “getting movie and tv info” (3) if need to rebuild database ... at least I know cover art will be least of my problems

In rare occasion that I do need to replace cover ... I just use add from file without bothering to remove previous cover first.

Only exception to this is TV series cover and their seasons cover
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jwk246

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Re: Cover Art questions
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2018, 09:42:55 pm »

Sorry for the delay in responding. I took some time to take a deep dive into the file/directory structure of the movies ripped into each version of JRiver MC.

JRiver version 21 has 468 movies in it- this is when I injested my (at that time) entire current Bluray collection. When I ripped the discs and for ver 21 and all succeeding versions, I was not offered a directory choice to put the Cover Art in; JRiver chose to put it in the 'Videos' directory by default in ver 21 and all succeeding versions. The default directories for each version were slightly different, for version 21 they were 'Albums', 'Seasons', 'Series' and 'Videos'. For version 22, 23 and 24 they were 'Seasons', 'Series', 'TV Logos' and 'Videos'. All 4 versions placed my Bluray Cover Art in the Videos directories. Maybe I should have spent more time thinking about my media management, but version 21 was the first version I really got serious about using and it was a pretty steep point on the learning curve I started at and the time I could spend planning was limited. Your suggestion for using 'Movies' in hindsight is a good one, but it was not one of the default Cover Art directories in any version (21 thru 24) that I've used. That said, there is nothing in any of the 'Videos' Cover Art folders except Bluray movies even though I have many other forms of video (and music) in my library.

JRiver version 22 has 71 Cover Art jpgs, none were carried over from version 21.

JRiver version 23 has 49 Cover Art jpgs, none were carried over from versions 21 or 22.

JRiver version 24 has 63 Cover Art jpgs, all of those from version 23 were copied to version 24, versions 21 and 22 were not copied to version 24.

I have a complete list of all Blurays in my library, including what drives they live on and what version of JRiver was used to injest them.

The structure of Bluray folders for JRiver version 21 is different than versions 22 thru 24.

JRiver 21 has a folder with the movie name. Inside that folder is BDMV folder and a disc.inf file. Inside the BDMV folder are subfolders of AUXDATA (although not always), BACKUP, BDJO, CLIPINFO, JAR, META, PLAYLIST and STREAM. There are also 3 files- index.jpg (this is the actual Cover Art for the movie), index_bdmv_JRSidecar.xml, and MovieObject.bdmv.

JRiver 22,  23 & 24 likewise have a folder with the movie name. Inside that folder are subfolders of AUXDATA (although not always), BACKUP, BDJO, CLIPINFO, JAR, META, PLAYLIST and STREAM. There are also 3 files, but slightly different than JRiver 21- there is no index.jpg; instead there is an index.bdmv, as well as the index_bdmv_JRSidecar.xml, and MovieObject.bdmv like version 21.

On one Bluray (Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk) there are also 'ANY!' and 'CERTIFICATE' folders in the main movie folder along with the BDMV folder and disc.inf file. This seems to be one of a kind, it's the only folder I found that has these 2 extra folders, but I certainly didn't look inside each of the 600-plus folders in my library. I'm reasonably certain they have something to do with AnyDVD, but don't know exactly what they do.


I'm not sure which version of Cover Art the movies have based on the first part of the quote above! I'm going to assume both have the 1991 Cover Art.
But it doesn't matter if you do or don't remove the Cover Art first. The existing file in the movie folder, which I guess is just named "\Cape Fear (1962)\Cape Fear.jpg", will be overwritten when you "Add from file", or use the "Get Movie & TV Info" function on the 1962 movie. Just make sure that the "Get Movie & TV Info" function selects the correct movie in the dialogue. Do the problem movie by itself.

Note: themoviedb.org, where MC gets its movie posters from, does have posters for both the 1962 and 1991 versions. Just search for "Cape Fear" without any year in the search criteria, and you will see both

Nearly all the movie synopsis and cover art came from themoviedb.org, a few that came from National Geographic had cover art lifted from various on-line stores and used the wikipedia synopsis because at the time they weren't in themoviedb.org database; however they now are.

You had a 50:50 chance of guessing which version of Cape Fear's cover art was used, unfortunately it you guessed wrong- it was the 1962 version that was added to both movies  :). I know for sure that I used the correct version for each from themoviedb.org, and the cover art was initially correct when I ripped them. There's no sign of the 1991 version that I can find anywhere, and even though the cover art is wrong on one of the Cape Fears, the movie synopsis is correct for both.


First, the Cover Art in those first four directories is Cover Art for videos, and not for movies. Things like home videos mostly, or perhaps any optical disc that you have imported into MC but not ripped to a hard drive. TV show Series and Season Cover Art are stored in directories below the \Cover Art\ directory, but not in the \Video\ directory. So, those directories don't hold Cover Art for your Movies or TV Shows.

See above info about this. This is the way JRiver version 21 stored my cover art, and versions 22 thru 24 followed the same convention.I'm not saying it's right, only that I had no hand in it.

Cover Art that is stored in the "Cover Art" directory didn't used to get moved or copied when you did a major upgrade of MC, so the old Cover Art directory would get left behind. I believe that has changed now and future upgrades will at least copy the Cover Art across to the new version. So what you are seeing there are all the old Cover Art Video directories. You probably have all the Cover Art you need in the "C:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Cover Art\Videos" directory, and you would just have duplicates in the MC23, 22, and 21 directories. If anything is missing, move them to the MC24 directory.

Your belief in this regard reflects what I've found in practice... beginning with version 24 the Cover Art from (and only from) the nearest earlier version gets copied (not moved) into the new version.

What I recommend you do it;
1. Pick a spot that you want all externally stored (not in a file tag, and not next to the media file, such as for a movie) Cover Art to be stored in the future, so that it isn't dependent on the MC version. Something like "C:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Cover Art" or just "C:\JRiver\Cover Art\", for example.
2. Go to the "Options > File Location > Cover Art > Folder" setting and change it to the directory you decided on in 1. above. You can create the new directory using the MC dialogue, and MC will offer to move your Cover Art to the new location. Let it.
3. Manually move any files from "c:\Users\username\Desktop\Cover Art\" to the new location. When you added from that directory, MC should have asked if you wanted to put a copy of the image file in the directory defined in Settings, so if you allowed that, any Cover Art images in there are just copies (backups) anyway.

Optionally:

Your Library Backups are probably still being stored under an older version of MC directories as well, so you may wish to;
4. Go to the "Options > File Location > Program Files > Library Backups" setting. Make a note of the current setting, which is probably under one of the older versions of MC. Change it to the directory under the MC24 structure. i.e. "c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Library Backups\", or you could make a new directory for backups that is also independent of the MC version, i.e. "C:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\Library Backups\" or just "C:\JRiver\Library Backups\".
5. Copy the most recent backups from the old backup location to the new location, so that you don't lose them.

Some more you could do;
6. If you didn't move any Cover Art from the directories belonging to older versions of MC, do it now if you want to.
7. Uninstall any earlier versions of MC if you haven't already. i.e. MC21, 22, and 23.
8. Go into "c:\Users\username\App Data\Roaming\J River\" and delete the "Media Center 21", "Media Center 22", and "Media Center 23" directories, to complete removal of the old versions.

All older versions of MC21, 22, and 23 were removed before this conversation began.
I don't quite understand how the Cover Art is indexed to the movie in the library... does JRiver search for the name of the cover art that matches the name of the movie every time JRiver loads? So you can move the Cover Art anywhere without it specifically being indexed for each and every movie so long as the location of the directory it's in is pointed to in the "Options > File Location > Cover Art > Folder"?

I suggest all of the above because that is what I do now; I store all Cover Art and Backups in a location that isn't specific to the MC version, so that I don't need to change the location every time I do an upgrade (yearly). For the Cover Art that works brilliantly. For the Library Backups, I just use the date of the backup to work out which version of MC it belongs to, although, for example, a MC23 backup can be restored to a MC 24 installation without issue.

Enjoy!

All great advice, and I still have a ways to go before I have a good handle on the interaction between the Library and the files, what I can do and what I can't do, but the fog is beginning to lift.... The Library is truly the unsung hero of JRiver, and the Library tools are very powerful! Thanks for giving me a hand up!

jk

PS- While cataloging my library I found that I had 2 versions of 'Get Carter', one with Stalone & Mickey Rourke, and one with Michael Caine.... Same names, same drive, no problem getting the right synopsis and Cover Art to each. Don't know what happened with the 'Cape Fears'.

So how do I go about modifying the movie (folder) title (like add the year, or remove some unneeded information that got included when it got ripped (like some titles will include 'Dom' for? domestic? appended to the title... change the title, and re-add the cover art (and synopsis?)?
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RoderickGI

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Re: Cover Art questions
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 03:32:16 am »

Wow, you write longer posts than I usually do, and that is saying something! I accept the challenge!  ;)

So I won't quote you but will try to address some of the issues.

First, the only time I know of that a movie Cover Art image is placed into the "Videos" directory is when the disc has been inserted and the Cover Art has been collected via the "Get Movie & TV Info" function or "Get from Internet", or other Cover Art function, and as the art can't be saved next to the movie file, because the movie file is anand optical disc, it is saved into the "Videos" directory.

So if you rip a Blu-ray or DVD before collecting Cover Art, then the images should be saved next to the movie file. If the Cover Art has been stored in the "Videos" directory for the above reason, and then you run the "Get Movie & TV Info" function, I think MC will get another copy of the image and save it next to the movie file.

Note that I rip using DVDfab directly, and don't rip from within MC. If you do rip from within MC, and have the setting "Get cover art from internet after ripping" ticked, maybe MC does put the image into the "videos" directory. I haven't tested that, but it shouldn't, because it should already have created the movie directory, and should put it in there. I guess what actually happens depends on the workflow you use.

You can check where the Cover Art is stored for a movie by looking at the [Image] tag, or more correctly the [Image File] tag, for the movie. That isn't an editable field. As you say, MC chooses where to store Movie Cover Art. You can't change it. I believe the functionality has been the same since I started using MC back on MC18. The "TV Logos" Cover Art directory is a reasonably recent addition, and whether the "Albums" and "Artists" Cover Art directories exist or are used depends on your Cover Art settings for audio.

BTW, I wasn't suggesting creating a "Movies" directory under the Cover Art directory and storing movie images in there. All Cover Art for video files should sit next to the video file itself, in the same directory. The only exceptions are when the video file is on an optical disc, and with TV Series and Season Cover Art. Cover Art for TV Episodes, which are the actual video file, are also stored next to the video file in the same directory.


If you are ripping Blu-rays from within MC, then the rules for which directory the movies are placed in are defined in the "Options > File Locations > Ripped BD Video > Folder Rule" setting. The default may have changed between MC21 & MC22. Or you may have changed the rule. The default rule in MC24 is "BD Movies\[Name]\".

The files and folders under the movie's directory don't really matter too much, as long as the movie plays, leave them alone. There may be just a BDMV directory with several sub-directories, or there may be another directory next to the BDMV directory. Includsion of the CERTIFICATE is a reasonably recent change with MC I believe, and ensure Blu-rays work properly with more recent movies and Windows updates, from memory. The "index.bdmv" file is what MC points to and "plays", and so the Cover Art image file should be called "index.jpg" for all Blu-rays that have been ripped to a folder structure. That is why all folder structure Blu-ray rips must be in their own directory. That is why the name of the directory that a Blu-ray rip resides in must be unique, and how rips and Cover Art can get messed up if two movies with the same name are ripped using the default folder naming rule as above, "BD Movies\[Name]\". I always add the year to the end of the movie name, to make the folder name unique. i.e. I rip to (or move a rip to) the structure "\Movies\[Name] ([Year])", as per the Cape Fear example I used above, "\Cape Fear (1962)\".

Note that the actual Cover Art file of a folder structure Blu-ray rip for the 1962 version of Cape Fear should be, using my structure; "\Movies\Cape Fear (1962)\BDMV\index.jpg", sitting right next to the "index.bdmv" file.

If you ripped Blu-rays of both Cape Fear versions to the same folder, "\Movies\Cape Fear\" or similar, and ripped the 1962 version second, then the "index.jpg" Cover Art file will be for the 1962 version, and unless MC did some magic in the naming of the \BDMV\ folder, the 1991 version of the movie could be broken. Does it still play?


As you have uninstalled all versions of MC prior to MC24, clean up those old MC directories. You don't need them.


Cover Art is linked to a movie via the [Image File] tag, shown in the MC Tagging Window as just "Image". Most of the time when you are looking at an image related to a movie, you are actually looking at a Thumbnail of the image. Thumbnails all reside in one indexed file so that is very fast to read. So when you load a View of movies, MC looks up the [Image File] tag for each movie, which includes the full path, and then it retrieves the Thumbnail using that tag information as the index to the thumbnail. So it is fast. (Actually, I think MC uses an internal file index number rather than the fule [Image File] tag information. But same sort of process, only even faster.)

The "Options > File Location > Cover Art > Folder" setting doesn't apply to Video files. It applies to audio files (Album, Artist folders), TV Logos, Genres, TV Series and Seasons, Videos where the normal rule can't be applied (i.e.Optical discs not ripped, but imported into MC) and other File types.

No, you can't move Movie Cover Art files to wherever you want to, as mentioned above, the [Image File] tag stores where the Cover Art is, and it can't be edited. The only exception I know to this is if you use the Cover Art "Add from file..." function to add Cover Art to a movie, and then answer "No" to the question about copying the image to the specified location, as per the dialogue shown in the attached image. If you answer "Yes" for a movie, MC will copy the selected file into the directory next to the movie file, and not into the directory specified in "Options > File Location > Cover Art > Folder". In other words, MC follows its own internal rules if you let it copy the file.


Read the Wiki article on the Rename, Move, and Copy Files function. Read it very carefully. Test it with small numbers of files, or in a test database. It is a very powerful tool.

The RM&CF function, as it is known, is used to move any media file MC knows about in its library, and can rename file and/or folders using naming rules. It also renames and moves associated file, such as Cover Art and Sidecar files. So, for example, I have rules for movies where;
The Base directory is set as "F:\Movies\"
The Directory rule is set as "[Name] ([Year])\"
The file name (for file-based movies - MKVs, AVIs, etc., not optical disc rips) is also set as "[Name] ([Year])"

Which makes my movie directory and filenames unique, which is good. Actually, there are a few instances where movies of the same name came out in the same year, which would cause an issue, but I haven't hit any of those yet.


You would have to share the full path and file name of the "Get Carter" and "Cape Fear" movies for me to comment on why one worked and the other didn't. But I suspect it is something to do with a folder naming difference.

I think that about covers everything you mentioned.


PS: I didn't properly proofread everything above. Hopefully, there aren't any significant blunders!
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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