Topic: MC24 Settings required to output SACD multchannel ISO to AV receiver via PCM (Read 3652 times)

sensei_russ · « **on:** September 22, 2018, 11:37:43 am »

Please help - I'm going round in circles and am now completely lost $:-\$

I'm trying to play SACD multichannel tracks (from an ISO) but can't figure out which settings to change on MC24.

At the moment my AV receiver is only receiving a 2 channel signal, although I am definitely playing a multichannel track (the ISO has both).

JRiver running on my Mac Mini connected to Marantz NR1605 via HDMI.

Do I need to change settings in MC24, my Mac Mini or both? I've tried changing both but nothing seems to 'stick' let alone work.

In MC24 I've tried Tools/Options/Audio/Settings - DSP and Audio Format but nothing I select works.

Please help!

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2018, 11:44:09 am »

Search for Bitstreaming on our wiki.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2018, 12:33:52 pm »

Thanks Jim,

I've done as you said but get an error message:

Playback could not be started on the output 'Core Audio' using the format 'DoP 2.8 MHz 6ch'.

What settings do I need to change and to what for My Mac Mini please? Something in MC24 or in the Macs settings?

Thanks!

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2018, 01:06:21 pm »

Try opening the Audio MIDI Setup app within macOS and setting your DAC to the highest bit-depth/sample rate available. Some DACs require this on macOS to get DSD bitstreaming working.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2018, 01:19:23 pm »

Ok, I've done as you said. The receiver seems to be showing a multi-channel input now, however I can only hear hiss - no music or other sound. Any ideas please Jim?

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:01:45 pm »

Make sure system volume and volume within MC is set to 100% when bitstreaming.

blgentry · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:25:17 pm »

I thought that computers were not able to send a DSD signal via HDMI to a receiver. I thought this only works with "real" hardware SACD players.

If you aren't real hung up about "pure DSD" and don't mind it being converted to PCM, I would suggest disabling bitstreaming and then setting your number of channels to 5.1 (or whatever your real number of speakers is in your system). That should let MC convert the DSD to multi-channel PCM and send it to the receiver via HDMI.

Brian.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:35:46 pm »

Thanks again for your help Jim.

I've now done that but I still have a wall of 'hiss'. If I turn volume up very high on my amp I can hear the music faintly behind the hiss.

For some reason, my Mac won't allow me to select my amp/HDMI output as the output device - even though it appears in the menu and I can click on it revealing options - none of them stick.

bigentry - not sure how to do what you mention. I'm not hung up on Pure DSD, just want to get my Multi-Channel music working the best way via MC24.

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:47:05 pm »

Is MC volume at 100%?

sensei_russ · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:50:28 pm »

Yes, I've chosen 'enable volume when Bitstreaming' and it's on max volume.

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:53:15 pm »

Try disabling it.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2018, 03:02:07 pm »

P.s. I tried re-starting MC24 and I was able to select HDMI as output on my Mac Mini.

However when I re-opened MC24 and started a track the Mac output reverted to 'internal speakers'.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2018, 03:22:55 pm »

Oh, it's not possible to bitstream DSD over HDMI from a PC/Mac. Unless your receiver supports DoPE (DSD-over-DLNA) your likely only option is to convert DSD to PCM.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2018, 04:09:35 pm »

Ah, ok. So how do I do that then please?

I just want to play the Multichannel SACD ISO's I have in my MC24 Library (on my Mac Mini) via my Marantz NR1605 amp.

Many thanks

sensei_russ · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2018, 08:20:22 am »

I've found a thread which seems to solve the problem, however it's not working for me.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=109590.0

My receiver IS receiving the signal but is still just outputting nothing - except when I turn volume up very high and then hear hiss.

Any ideas please?

blgentry · « **Reply #15 on:** September 23, 2018, 03:26:52 pm »

To get MC to convert DSD to PCM you need to do a few steps. This won't be step by step perfect exact, but it should be close and get you started in the right direction.

- Turn off bitstreaming: Tools > Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming > None
- Set your output to be 5.1 or whatever your real number of speakers is:
Player > DSP Studio > Output Format (make sure it's checked) > Channels > (set number of channels here)
> Output Encoding > None

Good luck.

Brian.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2018, 07:47:44 am »

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your message.

I've followed your instructions and now get the following error message:

Playback could not be started on the output 'Core Audio' using the format '768khz 6ch'. I've tried changing the bit rates but it always reverts to 768khz.

Also...

I can get bit-streaming to work playing flac multichannel files, however only via my Mac Minis 'built in output' and only with FLAC files it seems. The HDMI output cannot be selected. If I try to play SACD iso's then there is no sound but I'm guessing that's because the stream cannot be output through the 'built in output'.

It seems in both cases the problems are due to my Mac Mini's audio output setting.

Apologies if this is all blindingly obvious to anyone reading, as I stated before I'm completely lost!

Any help with a simple way to play SACD ISO's via my Mac Mini and Marantz NR1605 which can stream DSD? I don't mind if MC24 bitstreams or does a conversion as long as I can hear the the music in multichannel as I would when using the physical discs.

Any help - please?

blgentry · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2018, 08:10:16 am »

Quote from: sensei_russ on September 25, 2018, 07:47:44 am

I've followed your instructions and now get the following error message:

Playback could not be started on the output 'Core Audio' using the format '768khz 6ch'. I've tried changing the bit rates but it always reverts to 768khz.

I think you are very, very close! Your receiver almost certainly can not accept 768kHz audio. It's probably limited to 96kHz. Maybe 192. Here's how to fix it:

Open the DSP Studio again: Output Format > Sample Rate
Now find 768kHz as input and set the OUTPUT to be 96kHz. Or 48kHz if you'd like. This will tell MC to downconvert that super high resolution to a resolution that your receiver can handle.

Once you get that working, you should probably set ALL high sample rates (above 96kHz) to 96, so that it can play whatever you happen to have in your library.

Brian.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2018, 01:01:18 pm »

Hi Brian,

Well I 'seem' to have things working when using Bitstreaming. Previously I had 'DSD' selected under Bitstreaming, I simply changed that to 'HDMI' (doh!) and things started working. I'm getting optimistic now but trying not to get over excited just yet

For some reason my Mac Mini's audio device output seems to switch between 'Built-in Output' and 'HDMI' at it's own will when I go back to check it. However when it is on HDMI (and I can click the options there-in) - please see image here: https://imgur.com/a/GR6Fu1Q

I'm guessing I need to choose the 48.0 kHz 8 Channel 24bit setting? Other settings I tried altered the pitch of what I what I was playing.

Does that sound right?

P.S. DSP studio/non-bitstreaming just doesn't seem to work for me - aside from the FLAC files...

blgentry · « **Reply #19 on:** September 25, 2018, 03:19:46 pm »

For bitstreaming of DSD, I'm really not sure how things should be set in Audio MIDI Setup. I've been told that you are supposed to choose the highest available there (which would be 192kHz in your case). But I don't actually know. Again, I've also been told that bitstreaming DSD, via HDMI, does not work from computers. I don't have experience with it myself. Sorry about that.

I'm relatively confident that you can get MC to send audio from ANY file type you have, via HDMI, to your receiver, without bitstreaming. I could be wrong of course, but I'm pretty sure you can make it work.

Screen shots of your DSP Studio Output Format window might be helpful if you want to pursue that path.

If you want bitstreaming DSD to work, perhaps someone else here can offer more suggestions.

Good luck.

Brian.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #20 on:** September 25, 2018, 03:26:48 pm »

If you're using HDMI from a Mac, disable DSD bitstreaming because you can't bitstream DSD from a Mac or PC over HDMI.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #21 on:** September 28, 2018, 11:41:48 am »

OK, so some progress...

I can get audio out of my amp using both sets of the following settings (please see below), one with 'Bitstreaming On' and one with 'Bitstreaming Off'. (I've no idea what is technically being output with 'Bitstreaming On' but I am getting audio out).

However... for both sets of settings there is a problem with the surround settings as I seem to be getting the same channels across all speakers, as opposed to the speaker specific output for centre channel, or rears etc etc. (Previously this worked properly using the bitstream method - I've no idea what has now changed). My amp says it's receiving a multichannel 7.1 input and I am testing using Multichannel SACD tracks.

1/
Bitstreaming/Yes/HDMI
Audio Device/HDMI [Core Audio]
Settings/DSP & Audio Format/None

2/
Bitstreaming/None
Audio Device/HDMI [Core Audio]
Settings/DSP & Audio Format:
Output Format: Enabled and Processing 96khz 64bit 8ch
Output Encoding: None
Channels: 7.1
Sample Rate - All are set to output 96khz

Note: Using this option, my Mac Mini's 'Audio Device' settings has reverted to the Built-in output, the HDMI output can no longer be selected.

P.s. Many thanks for the heads-up on setting output to 96khz Brian. I'd tried it before on the 768khz setting and it didn't work. But when I applied it to 'All Sample Rates' it worked

blgentry · « **Reply #22 on:** September 29, 2018, 07:22:10 am »

Quote from: sensei_russ on September 28, 2018, 11:41:48 am

However... for both sets of settings there is a problem with the surround settings as I seem to be getting the same channels across all speakers, as opposed to the speaker specific output for centre channel, or rears etc etc.

Check your setting for Output Format > Channels > Mixing . Do you have a 7.1 system? Meaning, do you actually have 7 speakers and a subwoofer connected to your system? If so, that's the correct setting. If not, change it to match your actual number of speakers.

Take a look at the check boxes also for stereo sources, etc.

Finally, you might try turning mixing off altogether and see what happens. You can always turn it back on.

Quote

Note: Using this option, my Mac Mini's 'Audio Device' settings has reverted to the Built-in output, the HDMI output can no longer be selected.

You mean in System Preferences > Sounds correct? I would guess that means MC is opening the HDMI device with exclusive access... but not 100% sure on that.

I continue to wish you success with this setup!

Brian.

sensei_russ · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2018, 11:56:21 am »

After a lot of experimenting it seems to be working (fingers crossed!).

I tried switching some options on, some off and now it just seems to 'work'. I'm not sure why... However my settings are as follows in case it helps anyone else:

Audio Device/HDMI Core Audio

Output Format:
Encoding/None
Channels/5.1
Mixing/No Upmixing or Downmixing
Sample rate/No change except for 352,800 and 384,000 both set to output 176,400.

Bistreaming/None

My Macs Built-in Output is selected on my Mac mini.

Many thanks for everyones help especially bigentry for his feedback which got me over the line.

Cheers

blgentry · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2018, 04:36:27 pm »

That's great news! Glad to hear you've got it working.

Take care,

Brian.

rippolito · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2018, 08:14:43 am »

On a related note...

I have been ripping my SACDs via an Oppo 103 player and some software. The software outputs Sony DSF-format files: 5644 kbps for two-channel, and 16934 kbps for multi-channel. The files play via Media Center v24.0.53 on my mac, and they sound terrific.

I'm running into a problem when I try to play the files on my music system. For normal, non-DSD files, I can play them from my computer, wireless, to my Oppo via DLNA. The Oppo converts the files to analog and sends it to my preamp. When I attempt the same flow with the DSD files, the DLNA connection gets made (because I can see that in the MC panel), but all I get is static.

Does anyone have any experience in bitstreaming to an Oppo, and if so, what would you recommend I try?

Thank you in advance...
Ron

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Author Topic: MC24 Settings required to output SACD multchannel ISO to AV receiver via PCM (Read 3652 times)