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Author Topic: Columns and ordering of files in library window  (Read 2336 times)

ferrarabrainpan

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Columns and ordering of files in library window
« on: October 02, 2018, 04:07:37 am »

I have created about six different libraries and also created two different column configuration presets (one for audio and one for video). I want files to ALWAYS be sorted within groups by track number (low to high). And yet I keep finding that somehow (even after making sure I have the column preset loaded in any given library) files are being sorted by name or bitrate, and I see that some columns have numbers next to the heading (for instance Name has a 1, Album has a 4, bitrate has a 3). How is it that the file ordering keeps getting switched? Am I doing something wrong? Can I lock in my settings for all libraries so that it always displays library contents with my appropriate preset (for audio or video) and always orders the files by track number within album groups?
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Spike1000

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2018, 06:51:26 am »

A quick question:

Do you really mean 6 different libraries? As in 6 different MC 'databases' or do you actually mean 6 'library views'?

I ask this as multiple libraries are often not the best way to use MC. One database (library) and multiple library views can be more efficient for a number of reasons that I can go into later if that's indeed the case.

Spike

ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 09:58:13 am »

Yes I do mean six different libraries. There is overlap in what is contained in them, yes, but it seems like the quickest way to go to a selection of folders that are, for instance, downloads from Bandcamp, or those that are ripped from CD, or the hi-res downloads (which may include the same albums in some cases). I started out with two discrete libraries with mutually exclusive contents, but then added these additional libraries as an afterthought. I could go back and delete those libraries if you show me a better way of doing it.

But I still need to keep the library columns and sorting in the order I want.
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ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2018, 11:22:54 am »

As for library views, I know that if I am viewing the library as files (not albums or artists) I can select which drive and folder contents I want displayed, so it is easy to just select the Bandcamp downloads folder or the Hi-Res folder and see only those files. But in that case I cannot choose to view them by albums or artists because when I click on the artists option then it reverts to showing all artists in all folders contained in the library. I like artists or albums view because when I double click the album cover thumbnail it opens up a window in the lower half which then displays only the files in that album and shows the total time of the album at the bottom of the window, which I cannot see when I am in Files view, which just gives the total time of all files contained in whatever master folder I have selected to view.

More to the topic of my post here, I need to get a handle on how to use the Customize View option when viewing Artists or Albums, because I see there are two options I don't understand how to use:

Set rules for file display
Use parent scheme rules for file display

Maybe one of those will enable me to always show files ordered by track number within album?

Honestly, I love this program but MC is so deep that I keep getting swept down a rabbit hole of varying options and configurations as I try to get it organized the way I like it.
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Spike1000

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2018, 03:12:34 am »

... but it seems like the quickest way to go to a selection of folders that are, for instance, downloads from Bandcamp, or those that are ripped from CD, or the hi-res downloads (which may include the same albums in some cases).

But I still need to keep the library columns and sorting in the order I want.

Putting the columns to one side and looking at the databases. . .

The idea of the database is that you don't need to go to the Bandcamp 'Folder', or the CD 'Folder', or the High Res 'Folder'. All the files are in the database so you don't have to care where they are you just create a 'View' to show the category/type of files you want to see.

The views rely on metadata (tags) or properties (eg sample rate > 192kHz) so there is some housekeeping/admin needed but they are hugely flexible and is the best way to do it IMHO.

You just create a view for CDs, High Quality, 80s music, Jazz (nice!), Mongolian nose flute  or whatever you wish. I can't see anything that can't be done more efficiently with a single database and multiple views rather than  multiple overlapping databases (with potentially) multiple views. . .

See this thread for backup 'challenges' with multiple databases https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,117652.0.html

I have some tutorial videos in my footer, they *may* be some help. ..  At least they will show how a basic setup can run with one library.

Spike

ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2018, 05:54:51 am »

Thanks I will have a look at those tutorial videos because after reading thru the wiki page on view schemes I am simply not grasping how to go about this. Reading over the thoughtful replies it seems like I will need to apply some tags to the files in each category (Bandcamp lossless downloads, lossy iTunes/Amazon downloads, hi-res downloads, CD rips) and that seems like additional work before I can set up the views I want. The lossless downloads and CD rips are all 16/44.1 AIFF so file type and bitrate/frequency are not going to distinguish them. Since I already have those categories stored in separate folders (three drives: one for hi-res, one for lossless and one for lossy, with subfolder in each for CD rips and downloads) then setting up separate libraries which are all associated with separate master folders seemed to me the most expedient way to go about this, so I don't have to open up the file windows and scroll thru, I just load a different library. I suppose I could run into problems with the overlap, like you say. Essentially, I have one main library which includes everything including duplicates (which I have mostly edited the album titles with bracketed suffixes indicating if it is a download or hi-res version), and then one very small library of stuff that I don't want or need to access much. Maybe those tutorials will help me figure out how to tackle this in the right way. Thank you to all for your knowledgeable guidance.
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Spike1000

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2018, 06:45:44 am »

You may need some tags, accurate tags can be key to accurate views but you can use other meta data too.

The list of fields that can be used to 'select files for display' is massive. They are not all 'tags', there are things like File Type, bit rate, bit depth, sample rate, file path etc. but then the conditions are extensive: contains, is, is not, does not contain, is greater than, is less than etc etc so with a bit of 'structure', a bit of design and experimentation is easy to build up very short expressions that match the files you're after.

eg file path contains BandCamp
or sample rate >= 192kHz

A bit more advanced are expressions that can be used instead of stock categories. And there's custom fields too which can be populated automatically with expressions so it's really really flexible.

Take a look at my posts here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,110589.msg764452.html#msg764452

And my notes here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111775.msg772394.html#msg772394

If you do need to bulk edit tags you cab shift click select blocks of files and make changes to all the files at once in MC. I do this outside MC with MP3Tag; here I can select a entire folder structure and bulk change/edit tags in one shot in with a 'table view' style tag editor. The utility views above can be used to quickly see where tags are missing. Ctrl-A select, add the tag, job done. So it may not be as much work as you think to get something working from what you have. . .  YMMV of course  :)

Spike



dtc

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2018, 08:11:53 am »

Here a couple of things to try to get comfortable with using views and tags.

You can create a custom tag with the information you need. I have one called Media Sub Type Audio, with the allowed values of CD;HiRez;Vinyl;DVD-A;MP3;Internet Radio;Tidal. You could do something similar including Bandcamp. The name is purely arbitrary. You can call it whatever you want.   To create such a tag, Tools - Options - Library and Folders - Manage Library Fields and Add New Field. Make it a String. You also want to check the Save in File Tags option.  To use this custom tag, you will need to populate the new tag, but there are tools to help you do that.  Alternatively, you could just use one of the standard tags that you do not use, like Custom but that does not let you limit the values to specific values.

Smartlists are a good way to select a set of albums for tagging. It is also a good way to get use to what you will need to create custom Views. Select Playlists and then Smartlists. Right click on Smartlists and Add Smartlist. A box will come up which lets you Name your new Smartlist and lets you set the options to use. You can you Media is Audio (the standard one) then add a new one like Filepath Contains Bandcamp.  That will create a list of all the files in the Bandcamp folder.  You can then select all those albums/tracks and add Bandcamp to the custom tag you created.  You could also create a Smartlist  for HiRez by using Sample Rate is greater than 44,100 or one for mp3 by using Filetype is mp3.  With that approach you can probably tag everything pretty quickly. You can also create a smartlist to list all tracks for which your custom tag is empty.  You will need to fill out the tag when you import new tracks, so it is good to have a check in case you forget.

Now for Views. You can create new views using the custom tag. Alternatively, you can just use the type of selection just discussed directly in Views, without the custom tag.  That is, you can create a View with Filepath contains, Bandcamp, one with Filetpe is mp3, one for Sample Rate is greater than 44,100, etc.

To create a View, right click on Audio in the left hand tree and select Add Library View. Select Album for the list, for example, as your starting point.  A box will show and you can select Set Rules for Display. A box similar to the Smartlist one will appear and you can put in the appropriate selection criteria. You will now have a custom view with just the albums/tracks you selected. You can select based on the custom tag or you can use the various options (filetype, filepath, sample rate, etc.) directly.

Assuming you are using Category Display and album cover, once you have a custom view, look at the top of the album display and you will see a pulldown with the view name. In that you can select Sort By and then Custom to sort the albums by various tags in order. You can also select Thumbnail Text to set the lines that appear under the album cover.You could set on separate lines, for example,  [Genre]
then [Artist] then [Album] then Bandcamp. If you are using the custom tag approach you can use [Your Custom Tag] instead of the literal Bandcamp.

The advantage of using a custom tag is you do not have to rely on the folder structure to make selections. The disadvantage is you have to keep it up to date. WIth the custom tag you can also have a view of everything, with the specific attributes listed in the thumbnail text just by putting in the tag.

Spike's YouTube video of creating Views is helpful. It uses Panes instead of Category Views, but the idea is the same.  It lets you see the process before trying it.

Take it slow and try one thing at a time.  Once you start to use the various options, it should be relatively easy to create the views you need.
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ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2018, 02:57:39 pm »

Wow, this all sounds very complicated and overwhelming but I trust it is doable. Let me get something clear, please. If I can use filepath to determine the view, then will that work, given that all my hi-res files are located at H:\HI-RES\DOWNLOADS and all my downloaded lossless files (which is mostly Bandcamp but includes others) are at G:\LOSSLESS\DOWNLOADS and all my lossy files are at C:\Users\Ferrara\Music\Music\LOSSY\DOWNLOADS then will that work? So I don't have to tag things. Since I already keep these various files segregated in different drives and folders, that seems to be the best way to go about it, yes?

Maybe a quick set of instructions on how to do what I've just outlined, if it is not too much to ask. Honestly, if there were someone in my geographic area I could pay for face to face hands-on training in these things I would pay them for a one-time tutorial visit. I appreciate your help.
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dtc

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2018, 04:04:32 pm »

If you have all your albums already segregated by folders, then you do not need to create a custom tag. The custom tag just gives you more flexibility.

To create a custom view, look at Spike's 8th video. It uses Panes rather than Categories (Album Cover) views but it has all the basic steps.

You can just follow my instructions for creating a view, and in the Set Rules option, use the tool to set the rule Filename(Path) Contains Bandcamp and you should get a bandcamp view.

If you try each step, one step at a time, it should not be that hard. You just have to give it a try. Try the bandcamp view and ask questions if you have any problems.
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ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2018, 12:53:07 am »

OK now this is beginning to make sense and feel a lot more approachable. Spike, your videos are very helpful. I watched all of them from 1 to 8 (except the one on setting up a server network since it's not relevant to anything I am going to do with my one-PC one-stereo-system setup) and learned a lot of useful tips from you. Big difference in being able to see the steps performed as opposed to reading the instructions on the wiki pages. Thanks for creating and sharing those.

I haven't attempted any custom views yet because I need to get some sleep and approach this with a clear and alert mind tomorrow. Today was a nightmare playing damage control for several hours after a major Windows 10 update that temporarily nuked all my preferences and settings in the Windows UI and left me in a state of shellshock for most of the day. Restoring my default apps was only the beginning of the restore work I've had to do on my PC today (I prefer to open my audio and video files with JRiver, not "Groove Music" thank you very much Microsoft)...

I will report back once I've had some success transitioning from multiple libraries to the custom view scheme of sorting thru my music.
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Spike1000

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2018, 02:59:12 am »

Wow, this all sounds very complicated and overwhelming but I trust it is doable. Let me get something clear, please. If I can use filepath to determine the view, then will that work, given that all my hi-res files are located at H:\HI-RES\DOWNLOADS and all my downloaded lossless files (which is mostly Bandcamp but includes others) are at G:\LOSSLESS\DOWNLOADS and all my lossy files are at C:\Users\Ferrara\Music\Music\LOSSY\DOWNLOADS then will that work? So I don't have to tag things. Since I already keep these various files segregated in different drives and folders, that seems to be the best way to go about it, yes?

My tips; YMMV of course, especially as your head is still spinning after the windows update yesterday  :-\

1) Separate folders/drives for your downloads aren't necessary. Yes, you can do it, but you don't need to. Meta data and tags will allow you separate and view the collections of files you need to. . . and do a whole lot lot more!
2) I see no reason that 'file path' Contains LOSSY  filter in a view wouldn't work. As suggested you can experiment with a smart list to test expressions
I personally wouldn't do that as the filter is something 'external' to the media files, move the files and the filter breaks. Yes it's easily fixed, but my preference is have the filter parameters contained within the media files themselves. That's my preference, but I care more about the music rather then what format it is in as that is what it is as I can't change that. This might be an eye opener. . .

From say an album view, click the down arrow next to 'Albums' at the top of the window | Thumbnails | Thumbnail text and enter the code below

Code: [Select]
[Name] (if(isequal([File Type],MP3,1),<font color="FF0000">,)[File Type]if(isequal([File Type],MP3,1),<//font>,) if(compare([Sample Rate],>,44100),<font color="00FF00">,)[Bit Depth]bit math(formatnumber([Sample Rate])/1000)kHz/<//font>)
That help any distinguish your files in a view rather than where you store them?  Neat eh? :) (think that came from blgentry so I can't take credit for that expression)
It's tweakable of course.  MC is very very powerful and customisable which does make it hard to learn, hence the Videos (thanks for your kind words on those). I just wish people who know far more than me shared some too or even did one to just show off their setup/config as a picture is worth a 1000 words.

3) If you do need to add a tag to the whole of a given file structure (eg everything under LOSSY) you could select all the files at once and edit the files in one go so bulk changes don't need to be arduous.

4) With all changes try a few files first before you go full gorilla on it as it's possible to change things you can't undo!

Enjoy

Spike




ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2018, 03:17:13 pm »

As I am playing around with all of this with the ultimate intention of deleting all those extra libraries in favor of setting up custom view schemes to differentiate my albums, I have come round to my initial question about Columns & Ordering of Files in Library Window.

I have selected all the column headers I care about looking at (I needn't enumerate them here) and arranged them horizontally in the order of columns I want to see from left to right, and created a preset column view scheme for audio files and another one for video files (adding a couple of column headers that aren't relevant to audio file specs). So I have two saved preset column schemes that are easily reloaded if things get moved around (for instance if I want to view a column that is on the far right without moving the horizontal scroll bar at the bottom as I vertically scroll thru the album files I might temporarily drag the bitrate column over to the left). All good.

Now I am getting stumped with how to create my preferred file ordering scheme within groups and to save that as part of the column preset. How do I go about this? When I left click on any column header I get two options, the first of which is what I want: Sort Inside Groups By [given parameter of the column]. Then I see that there appears a number 1 next to the column name and all the files in the album are ordered by that parameter (Track #, for instance). Now I left click on a different column header and select Sort Inside Groups by... and then that column gets a number 1 added to the column name and the previous column's number changes to 2. So I am guessing that the most recent column I selected to Sort Inside Groups becomes the first level of file ordering within groups (groups = albums here). Then I can click on another column and end up with five or more different levels of ordering of files within groups, with the first level always being the last one selected. It gets confusing and I don't need all these levels of sorting stored as part of my preset, if I want to sort some files on the fly by something like bitrate then I can do that, but what I want to see in my saved presets for columns are, the only ordering I want to keep as my default view, are these:

First level ordering of files within albums by Track #
Second level ordering of Albums under the Artist header by Album Name (alphabetically) not by Year (which seems to be the default ordering of albums under an artist in MC).

When I have a lot of albums by a single artist I would rather see them listed alphabetically by album title than the year associated with the release... partly because the tag for year gives the year of release of the particular version I have, which might be a remastered CD reissue that came out decades after the original LP. I really don't use year much in my own library except to catalog the particular pressings or versions of the albums.

So to sum up, how can I get rid of all those numbers that appear next to the column headers and just use Track # within Album group as my only stored sorting preference in the column preset? And how can I make it so the ordering of albums by an artist is alphabetical instead of by year?
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ferrarabrainpan

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2018, 10:37:41 pm »

OK now I get how this whole library view system works. This is great and I can definitely use this for my purposes and get rid of those needless libraries which I understand can cause backup issues down the road. Thank you DTC and Spike for showing me the ropes. Those videos really helped.
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dtc

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Re: Columns and ordering of files in library window
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2018, 10:30:45 am »

Great! It is a little daunting to get started on some of these ideas, but once you figure it out it really shows the power of MC.  You should take a look at Smartlists and custom tags also. They bring even more power.  If eventually you can use the custom tags rather than just the filepaths, you will get a very robust system.

Enjoy.
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