Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rec head]

A graphical drag and drop interface for Rename, Move and Copy files. This is one of those tools that probably makes sense if you already know how to use it but for the rest of us looks daunting. It is one of those MC features that really has a "designed by an engineer" feel. Sometimes I and I'm guessing others just want to put files from here to there without reading a wiki.

[JimH]

It has tooltips that show you before and after for your proposed action.  You can check the result before you continue.

[rec head]

Again, you already know how to use it so I'm sure it makes sense. I would have to read the wiki to figure it out. I have no idea what "Directories" and "Base Paths" refer to. For moving and copying I already understand drag and drop.

[dtc]

Again, you already know how to use it so I'm sure it makes sense. I would have to read the wiki to figure it out. I have no idea what "Directories" and "Base Paths" refer to. For moving and copying I already understand drag and drop.

directories is a older name for what we now generally call folders. Directory was the common name before graphical user interfaces were introduced. Once GUI's became common, the term folder generally superseded directory.  The visual of a folder was much easier than using the name directory.  Directory is still used in command line syntax, but is seldom used today in systems with GUIs.  Old timers use them interchangeable.

[rec head]

directories is a older name for what we now generally call folders. Directory was the common name before graphical user interfaces were introduced. Once GUI's became common, the term folder generally superseded directory.  The visual of a folder was much easier than using the name directory.  Directory is still used in command line syntax, but is seldom used today in systems with GUIs.  Old timers use them interchangeable.

Exactly.


I don't find myself typing cd.. too often anymore.

[JimH]

Directories and folders are more or less interchangeable terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_structure

[swiv3d]

How would drag and drop cope with implementing changes in folder (directory) structures?

[dtc]

How would drag and drop cope with implementing changes in folder (directory) structures?

The same way GUI systems do currently - with options like Rename and Add New Folder.

[swiv3d]

And would that give me the ability to completely redefine my folder structure based on selected tags within my files?

[BryanC]

I have no idea what a "graphical drag-n-drop" interface would look like. Could you post some examples?

[dtc]

Windows Explorer is a good example.

[DJLegba]

And would that give me the ability to completely redefine my folder structure based on selected tags within my files?

I like the way it works now, but it certainly is too difficult for many users. And I suspect most people just want to do simple things like move folders from one drive to another. So keep the current tool, but add a "friendly" version that lets you drag folders around.

[rec head]

I have no idea what a "graphical drag-n-drop" interface would look like. Could you post some examples?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Explorer

[dtc]

And would that give me the ability to completely redefine my folder structure based on selected tags within my files?

The idea is to incorporate a drag and drop interface for existing functions in the tool - like move and copy -  comparable to how something like Windows Explorer works. If you want to do it based on tags, then incorporate that functionality along with the drag and drop methods.  They are not mutually exclusive.

[rec head]

I don't know that every function of Move, Rename, Copy (the name is long enough I can't remember the order) could be moved to a GUI. I don't know enough about it. But things like moving, renaming and copying files seem like they could.

I have been around long enough to know what a directory is. But looking at Rename, Move, Copy Files I don't really understand what Directory, Base Path, Rule are all about. I am intentionally not reading the wiki because my point is that it is hard to understand. I'm sure I could read it, maybe ask some questions here on the forum then start using it. I have used the feature in the past but I don't remember how I did it exactly.

[rec head]

This wouldn't be a GUI but would still be easier.

[swiv3d]

That's called windows explorer I think?

[RoderickGI]

A graphical drag and drop interface for Rename, Move and Copy files. This is one of those tools that probably makes sense if you already know how to use it but for the rest of us looks daunting. It is one of those MC features that really has a "designed by an engineer" feel. Sometimes I and I'm guessing others just want to put files from here to there without reading a wiki.

I think you have answered your own question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Explorer

"Drive & Devices > Explorer" is a powerful tool that provide "Windows Explorer" like functionality, while maintaining the MC Library records of where media files are. It has the basic functionality required of Adding, Deleting, and Renaming files and directories. Drag & Drop work. It doesn't use tags to move or rename files, and I suspect that any graphical Drag & Drop tool that allowed using tags would be as complicated, or more so, than the existing RM&CF function. It can act on only files in the Library, or on all files in a directory. Of course, all the same issues that come up with the RM&CF function moving or not moving ancillary files would also come up with a graphical tool, including the MC Explorer tool.

So use "Drive & Devices > Explorer" instead. Use the checkboxes at the top to change the way it works, particularly so you only operate on files in the MC Library, or all files in a folder.

Frankly though, while the RM&CF function has some quirks and requires a bit of knowledge to get the most out of it, it isn't that hard to use, it shows you what it is going to do before doing it, and if you can't understand it then you probably aren't getting the most out of MC Views, Searches, and a whole lot more MC functionality.

Won't read the Wiki to learn how to use the function? Who is that hurting?
Find the Wiki hard to understand? Well, why don't you learn it and write a better Wiki? Or improve the existing one?


BTW, I learned how to use the RM&CF function by... using it. Then reading the Wiki. Then using it. Then reading the Wiki again. It really isn't that hard. Set up a test Library, copy some files into it, and practice.

Or just use Windows Explorer and let MC find the files again after you have moved them. But get your settings right for that first.

[BryanC]

Windows Explorer is a good example.

Why not just use explorer then? The beauty of RM&C is that moving files can be done consistently and programmatically. Dragging and dropping files is slow and cumbersome.

[biblio]

Why not just use explorer then? The beauty of RM&C is that moving files can be done consistently and programmatically. Dragging and dropping files is slow and cumbersome.

RM&C is implemented in similar ways in a lot of media managers do it; a drag and drop interface just seems like a waste of dev time.

[JimH]

Why not just use explorer then? The beauty of RM&C is that moving files can be done consistently and programmatically. Dragging and dropping files is slow and cumbersome.

I think you can even do that in MC under the Drives section (which looks like Explorer).

[dtc]

Why not just use explorer then? The beauty of RM&C is that moving files can be done consistently and programmatically. Dragging and dropping files is slow and cumbersome.

Explorer does not interact with the MC library, but you already know that.

You may think a drag and drop interface in cumbersome, but it is commonly implemented and most users are familiar with it.  The MC tool has a significant learning curve for many. That was the OP's point.

[BryanC]

Explorer does not interact with the MC library, but you already know that.

You may think a drag and drop interface in cumbersome, but it is commonly implemented and most users are familiar with it.  The MC tool has a significant learning curve for many. That was the OP's point.

It does interact with the library if you are using auto-import and "fix broken links." If that's not enough, then you can use Jim's suggestion to use the drives interface.

[dtc]

I think you can even do that in MC under the Drives section (which looks like Explorer).

I must be missing something. Do the options under Drives allow you to copy and move files while interacting with the MC library?  I see a Play option but no move or copy drag and drop options

[AdrianB]

Actually from a file movement point of view it would be really nice for an options menu to move to a category folder...

For example the family record all their tv programs / movies etc and some they watch and delete and some like my youngest who is train obsessed wants to watch them 50 times over and then some but i dont want it clogging up the recorded tv section. I already have custom menus and custom folders setup but the mechanics of moving files and keeping the database updated is clunky and all the left over files after deleting a program means its difficult to bulk move without upsetting the gentle balance.

So what would be nice is to be able to specify custom "send to" locations behind the scenes and then be able to click on the media file and select "send to" and off it goes to the new location updating the database as it does it...

[dtc]

It does interact with the library if you are using auto-import and "fix broken links." If that's not enough, then you can use Jim's suggestion to use the drives interface.

That's a pretty round about way to move or copy a file and requires using auto-import, which not everyone does.  It is certainly not the recommended way to do moves and copies, especially for new users.  Plus there are some tags that will not write to a file and you would lose them by re-importing. For a large change, like moving all your files to a new drive, that seems like a time consuming and dangerous task. Not sure what  that does to your playlists.  One of the beauties of the current tool it that it works correctly with the entire library.

[JimH]

I must be missing something. Do the options under Drives allow you to copy and move files while interacting with the MC library?  I see a Play option but no move or copy drag and drop options

Yes.  Try copy and paste.

The wiki topic called Moving Files might be useful.

[BryanC]

That's a pretty round about way to move or copy a file and requires using auto-import, which not everyone does.  It is certainly not the recommended way to do moves and copies, especially for new users.  Plus there are some tags that will not write to a file and you would lose them by re-importing. For a large change, like moving all your files to a new drive, that seems like a time consuming and dangerous task. Not sure what  that does to your playlists.  One of the beauties of the current tool it that it works correctly with the entire library.

If the files are moved and found, then the database will be updated to point at the new location, you shouldn't lose any tags or playlist entries.

[rec head]

I think you have answered your own question.



So use "Drive & Devices > Explorer" instead. Use the checkboxes at the top to change the way it works, particularly so you only operate on files in the MC Library, or all files in a folder.

Frankly though, while the RM&CF function has some quirks and requires a bit of knowledge to get the most out of it, it isn't that hard to use, it shows you what it is going to do before doing it, and if you can't understand it then you probably aren't getting the most out of MC Views, Searches, and a whole lot more MC functionality.

Won't read the Wiki to learn how to use the function? Who is that hurting?
Find the Wiki hard to understand? Well, why don't you learn it and write a better Wiki? Or improve the existing one?


BTW, I learned how to use the RM&CF function by... using it. Then reading the Wiki. Then using it. Then reading the Wiki again. It really isn't that hard. Set up a test Library, copy some files into it, and practice.

Or just use Windows Explorer and let MC find the files again after you have moved them. But get your settings right for that first.

I really didn't mean to start this big of a mess. I just think that a nice feature for MC would be a tool that would copy a file in a self explanatory and easy to use way.

As I said I haven't read the wiki to stay ignorant on purpose just to illustrate a point. If I needed to use RM&C again I'd brush up on it. I'm not hurt in any way.

The whole point I have been trying to make is that in every day file management I use my mouse to select files and then drag them to where they need to go. I don't go to Microsoft support to figure it out. The options given here to copy a file are A) Read a wiki. B) Use Devices Drives. Why would I even think to go to Devices when there is a tool with COPY in the name?

[dtc]

If the files are moved and found, then the database will be updated to point at the new location, you shouldn't lose any tags or playlist entries.

Still seems like a very round about way to do a simple task.  Not something I would normally recommend to an average user.

By the way, I stay away from Fix Broken Links as much as possible. It seems like it is best to figure out why you have broken links rather than just let a tool fix them. Creating them on purpose just does not seem like a recommended process.

[AdrianB]

healthy discussion is where ideas are born....

For those of us that run it mostly in theater view its a pain in the backside having to switch in and out of modes if it could somehow be added to the selection option.?

[dtc]

Yes.  Try copy and paste.

The wiki topic called Moving Files might be useful.

Hate to say, the wiki is of no help. First it says to go to My Computer, which is not to be found when I go to Drivers and Devices. Then it simply says to use drag and drop, which is of no help.

I did get drag and drop to work but it looks more like a way to select files to play than to drag and drop.

[JimH]

Hate to say, the wiki is of no help. First it says to go to My Computer, which is not to be found when I go to Drivers and Devices. Then it simply says to use drag and drop, which is of no help.

I did get drag and drop to work but it looks more like a way to select files to play than to drag and drop.

Are you on a Mac or Linux?  If you expand Drives and Devices, what do you see?

[JimH]

The whole point I have been trying to make is that in every day file management I use my mouse to select files and then drag them to where they need to go.

I'm sorry, but that's a primitive method compared to the rules based method of Rename, Move, and Copy.  You're walking when you could be flying.

[dtc]

Are you on a Mac or Linux?  If you expand Drives and Devices, what do you see?

I am on Windows 8.1

I see

Spare Drive (D:)
Explorer
     Asuslaptop (C:)
     Network
         Asuslaptop

Spare Drive is the name of usb drive hooked to system. Asuslaptop is the name of the system.

My Computer is a term that Windows used to use. Drives and Devices displays the actual name of the computer not "My Computer".

[JimH]

OK.  Thanks.  Right neighborhood wrong house, but you found it.

[rec head]

I'm sorry, but that's a primitive method compared to the rules based method of Rename, Move, and Copy.  You're walking when you could be flying.

I don't know if I'm not making my point correctly. I only want to be able to walk. Just get up from my chair and walk. Not pack my clothes, get in a cab, sit in traffic, wait in the TSA line, wait in the boarding line, get my seat, wait to take off and then finally fly at 500mph.

[RoderickGI]

I get that. There are two issues for us old hands;

1. The RM&CF function is really powerful and useful, and forms a core part of our use of MC. It is fundamental to our workflows in MC.
2. What you are asking for is already there, in the form of the "Drive & Devices > Explorer" function. It is graphical Drag & Drop file and folder Moving, Copying, Deleting, and Renaming tool. Oh, it adds new folders as well.

Is there anything missing from that function? Because it pretty much duplicates Windows Explorer functionality.

[dtc]

And how would a new user know to go to drives and devices to copy or move a file? He would normally just go to the Copy and Move function and use the functionality there.   And having to go to the Wiki for such a routine task is not very user friendly. That is his point.

[DJLegba]

2. What you are asking for is already there, in the form of the "Drive & Devices > Explorer" function. It is graphical Drag & Drop file and folder Moving, Copying, Deleting, and Renaming tool. Oh, it adds new folders as well.

Is there anything missing from that function? Because it pretty much duplicates Windows Explorer functionality.

Yes, but the typical user will expect to see subfolders in the right pane when clicking on a folder in the left pane, and will want to do all the dragging and cutting etc in the right pane. In MC the right pane is the playlist - sort of. If you're playing something already it doesn't show up in the right pane, but when you select a folder in the left pane its files appear in the right pane. On the other hand, if you attempt to drag a folder from the left pane into the right pane you get a "Move/Copy/Cancel" decision. Move or Copy where? This is not at all how Windows Explorer works and I find the command syntax of the RMC tool much easier to understand than the non-standard drag and guess action in the Drives & Devices section.

[RoderickGI]

How do people ever learn how to use new software? By using it, reading the manuals (Wiki), or asking people (Forum).

Explorer under Drives & Devices isn't identical to Windows Explorer. Correct. MC isn't a Microsft product.

What is in the right pane is always the files, either of the selected directory, or if the checkbox at the top is selected, of all files in the selected directory and its sub-directories. It is never a Playlist or Playlist contents. You shouldn't expect it to be what is playing now, because as the user you are doing a file management task.

If you select Directory "A", then click on and drag directory "B\1" to the right pane, the target directory is what I would expect; the selected directory on the left. Just like in Windows Explorer. There is a little gotcha is you try to drag directory "B" to the right pane when directory "B" is empty. But the same process works when dragging "B" in the left pane.

It isn't hard to work out. Two minutes playing with it and I think most people would understand it. Yes, it could be improved. Maybe even made to work more like Windows Explorer, if there weren't copyright issues.


But I am obviously flogging a dead horse here. So carry on guys. See the downside and not the upside. I'll keep happily using MC Explorer the way it is, when I need it.

[JimH]

Putting this thread out of its misery now.